Explain like i'm 5 what a bunch of chilren on reddit think they'll achieve with this group tantrum?

[Skipple]

17 minutes ago, ToboRobot said:

Or do people search for a post or comment that someone took the time to write out the solution to a technical problem

Is this not participation? Sure, there is a difference between high level partification and low effort participation. There always will be on social media platforms. 

[ToboRobot]

1 minute ago, redditrefugee1 said:

What use is information if it is wrong or harmful? 

Unmodded content is as good as garbage. That's what seperates Reddit from fake websites. People who are passionate and want to be helpful help to keep the content helpful. 

 

You clearly don't get it. 

 

Let me send you some fake instructions on how to fix your computer and let me know how it works out for you. 

 

Mods keep pages working, keep them from being fake news, and generally make your life easier. They are just as valuable as content creators, and without them, you don't get good info or content, and there is nothing to stop bad actors from really screwing you over. 

I disagree.  Bad content needs moderation, good content does not.

The moderation system and the content voting (popularity) system don't decide what is good content.  Moderators have impact on what content meets or breaks the rules.  Users can participate by upvoting or downvoting content they like to effect it's popularity.

Not sharing your opinions doesn't mean I don't get it.  Maybe you don't get it.

There are lots of fake or ineffective instructions all over the internet, including reddit.  Moderation and popularity voting systems are not perfect safeguards for fake information.

Without content creators, moderators would have no content to moderator, and no audience to manage.

Mods can also be bad.  They can be wrong.  They can spread disinformation and ban people who try to correct them with correct information.   There is nothing to stop bad actors from really screwing you over.

[ToboRobot]

1 minute ago, Skipple said:

Is this not participation? Sure, there is a difference between high level partification and low effort participation. There always will be on social media platforms. 

When you upvote on reddit that is participation.  But you aren't creating content.  There is no posted text, photo or link. 

You have participated in the exchange of karma, but not created any content. 

Yes, there is a big difference between the types of participation, a link and a typed out troubleshooting guide with photos are entirely different, but it's more like the difference between fans at a sports game (participating in an event by cheering) and players playing the game (content creation).  A fan of a team cheering, isn't the same as a player scoring a goal.

[Skipple]

1 minute ago, ToboRobot said:

When you upvote on reddit that is participation.  But you aren't creating content.  There is no posted text, photo or link. 

Ah, then we have differing views as to what constitutes participation and what is content creation. Personally, I see participation as commenting, engaging in conversation, exchanging ideas, etc.. Content Creation, to me, is posting original works, etc. where then users participate in conversation under said content. 

We simply had a difference of definitions with those words.

Look at that. We came to, essentially, the same conclusion; all without insulting one another.

Wonderful. 

[redditrefugee1]

23 minutes ago, ToboRobot said:

Not sharing your opinions doesn't mean I don't get it.  Maybe you don't get it.
 

The "i know you are but what am I" is a really poor argument. 

 

You can choose to believe whatever you want, there is clearly an ego thing here because none of your arguments actually rebut what several users are telling you. 

 

- "Bad content needs moderation, good content does not."

 

IF content is not moderated, you have no way to know if it's good or bad.

If you went to a restaurant and the sign on the wall said "We don't have a health rating... but trust us the fish you are eating is fresh" Would you eat the raw fish? Health inspectors (mods) help to keep you safe by making sure people follow the rules, and if they don't they remove them. that's very helpful to keep you from getting sick. They aren't perfect, but they are much much better then doing nothing at all. 

 

-Mods can also be bad.

 

This was never disputed.

 

But simply because they can be doesn't mean they are. Paid employees can be bribed, and generally are not as passionate about topics because they are paid. Free mods do it because they care deeply about something and are much less likely to give a pass to bad info. Mods do what they do generally because they wanna help, not to make money. Someone who spends all there time helping people with tech issues for free, isn't likely to be the guy wanting to screw you over.

 

-There are lots of fake or ineffective instructions all over the internet, including reddit

 

This is true, but there are a lot of really good places with good information, and what they all share? Content moderation. IT's why wiki is so good, and why good websites like this one exist.

 

-There is nothing to stop bad actors from really screwing you over.

Yeah there is. Good actors working together to remove bad information and keeping the wrong info away from the end user. 

 

You make a lot of assumptions and leaps in an attempt to be right. I feel like you are so desperate to be right that instead of logically thinking through what you think, you just are doggedly sticking to half baked thoughts without really examining why you think they are true. You are welcome to your feelings, but factually, pretty much everything you responded with is easily debunked and frankly wrong. Again, I really think you don't understand how moderation and content creation actually work and how on places like reddit, help to make your experience better. IF you did, most of this would never have to be said. 

 

Good luck with that.

 

[redditrefugee1]

9 minutes ago, Caroline said:

Yeah... that's some quality content right there.

Your anecdotal evidence doesn't prove that all of reddit is bad. It's just that, a few isolated experiences... 

 

I've learned a great deal from the apple subreddits, and literally fixed several old computers based on some great info posted there. I've also gotten great gaming tips, found some short cuts on programming, got a deal on some hard drives, and even helped my dog stop vomiting. 

 

My point is plenty of people have good experiences on the site, and the few anecdotes of bad content you mention are not the sum total of reddit or any website. Any large/popular site attracts bad actors, that doesn't diminish them, just like the worst people in any country don't define the place. 

[rcmaehl]

ELI5:

Reddit wants people to use the stairs

People built ramps to be easier, more accessible, friendlier

Reddit will charge the makers of the ramps $20 million USD/yr at the end of the month

People are rioting because ramps are good, accessible to people with disabilities, and a smooth experience

[ToboRobot]

2 minutes ago, rcmaehl said:

ELI5:

Reddit wants people to use the stairs

People built ramps to be easier, more accessible, friendlier

Reddit will charge the makers of the ramps $20 million USD/yr at the end of the month

People are rioting because ramps are good, accessible to people with disabilities, and a smooth experience

Reddit makes money when people use the stairs
Reddit doesn't get paid the same when people use ramps.
Reddit wants the ramp company to pay more for access to the Reddit building.
The ramp company doesn't want to pay more, and gets it's customers to complain.

 

[rcmaehl]

Just now, ToboRobot said:

Reddit makes money when people use the stairs
Reddit doesn't get paid the same when people use ramps.
Reddit wants the ramp company to pay more for access to the Reddit building.
The ramp company doesn't want to pay more, and gets it's customers to complain.

The ramp company has no issue paying for people using the ramp.

The ramp company already pays other venues for people using its ramp

The ramp company is upset they're being asked to pay orders of magnitude higher than what is standard across the industry

[redditrefugee1]

14 minutes ago, ToboRobot said:

Reddit makes money when people use the stairs
Reddit doesn't get paid the same when people use ramps.
Reddit wants the ramp company to pay more for access to the Reddit building.
The ramp company doesn't want to pay more, and gets it's customers to complain.

 

You really don't get that what they are charging is insane? They wanted to charge Apollo 20 Mill for access, a company that doesn't even bring in a 1/10 of that annually? 

 

IF you went to McDonalds and suddenly they demanded you pay 10X as much for a burger without explaining why, are you really gonna be on McDonald's side?

 

They didn't negotiate, they didn't discuss, they just announced one day the prices to drive you out, and ton of people eating there are now saying that isn't fair, and are choosing to walk away.

 

Like how many boots are you licking on the daily? Like wow.

 

Customers are also allowed to complain. It's our right to. Reddit isn't entitled to our patronage, and if we don't want to support the arbitrary changes we have every right to take our business else where. How are you not getting this? 

 

If you support capitalism, then you support the right of customers to go elsewhere for any reason at any time, if you support socialism you support the right of collectives to resist arbitrary changes by management and fair treatment for vendors and users.

 

[starsmine]

1 hour ago, ToboRobot said:

Not true at all. 

There can be unmoderated content. 

This is quite possibility the dumbest argument on this topic I have seen, thank you very much for sharing it with the world. 

There literally can not be unmoderated content. It would just be spam at that point. 

[Holmes108]

8 minutes ago, redditrefugee1 said:

You really don't get that what they are charging is insane? They wanted to charge Apollo 20 Mill for access, a company that doesn't even bring in a 1/10 of that annually? 

 

IF you went to Mcdonalds and suddenly they demanded you pay 10X as much for a burger without explaining why, are you really gonna be on McDonald's side? 

 

Like how many boots are you licking on the daily? Like wow?

You weren't replying to me, but I wouldn't lick McD's boots, but I also wouldn't give that much of a shit. I'd say "that's crazy!!", then say "McDonalds Sucks!" and then I'd go on with my day (even if I loved McD's). 

 

I wouldn't compare it to women getting the right to vote, which literally happened in this very thread. This affects different people differently, so perhaps it's understandable some people more directly affected are more pissed. But because everyone doesn't think this is a social and cultural emergency doesn't make us dumb, wrong, or corporate bootlickers.

[ToboRobot]

6 minutes ago, starsmine said:

There literally can not be unmoderated content. It would just be spam at that point. 

spam is content. 

[redditrefugee1]

6 minutes ago, Holmes108 said:

You weren't replying to me, but I wouldn't lick McD's boots, but I also wouldn't give that much of a shit. I'd say "that's crazy!!", then say "McDonalds Sucks!" and then I'd go on with my day (even if I loved McD's). 

 

I wouldn't compare it to women getting the right to vote, which literally happened in this very thread. This affects different people differently, so perhaps it's understandable some people more directly affected are more pissed. But because everyone doesn't think this is a social and cultural emergency doesn't make us dumb, wrong, or corporate bootlickers.

If you think that rights they can take from others today won't be the rights they take away from you tomorrow you aren't paying attention. 

 

It's tough for the sheep says the cow. 

 

When companies arbitrarily changing things, and you say nothing just because it isn't you... don't complain when one day you are on the tough end. 

 

Yes, letting companies you patronize get away with screwing over others is bootlicking. 

 

I'm sorry if that leaves a bitter taste in your mouth. But if the shoe fits... 

[ToboRobot]

12 minutes ago, redditrefugee1 said:

You really don't get that what they are charging is insane? They wanted to charge Apollo 20 Mill for access, a company that doesn't even bring in a 1/10 of that annually? 

 

IF you went to Mcdonalds and suddenly they demanded you pay 10X as much for a burger without explaining why, are you really gonna be on McDonald's side?

 

They didn't negotiate, they didn't discuss, they just announced one day the prices to drive you out, and everyone else eating there is saying that isn't fair.  

 

Like how many boots are you licking on the daily? Like wow.

 

Customers are also allowed to complain. It's our right to. Reddit isn't entitled to our patronage, and if we don't want to support the arbitrary changes we have every right to take our business else where. How are you not getting this? 

 

If you support capitalism, then you support the right of customers to go elsewhere for any reason at any time, if you support socialism you support the right of collectives to resist arbitrary changes by management and fair treatment. 

 

 

I do understand that many people feel that they are charging too much.

Lets look for some market comparisons for this API content from Reddit.

What other sources are there for the Reddit API other than Reddit?


Ok, so there is one company with ownership of the content, and they are charging too much money for it. 

If I think LTT is charging too much money for Floatplane exclusive content, where can I go to get it for cheaper? 

If I think Ferrari is charging too much money for cars, where can I go to get a Ferrari for cheaper?

As you said, capitalism enables cusomers to go elsewhere for any reason at any time. 

Don't like Reddit, GO TO ANOTHER SOCIAL NETWORK.  Either Reddit realizes the loss of you is terrible and changes, or they die because everyone left, or some people leave and Reddit continues on.
 

[redditrefugee1]

7 minutes ago, ToboRobot said:

spam is content. 

And that pretty much sums up your skewed and incoherent view of things in a nutshell. 

 

Content doesn't mean it's good or helpful. 

 

It's matter, doesn't mean it's edible. 

 

Here have a piece of cake...

 

wait... sorry it's cardboard. 

 

Same thing right? It's all stuff right? 

 

How do you get cake if you want cake? Someone has to remove the content that isn't relevant, or is misleading, and that person? That's a mod, even if it's a peer who is a mod... it's still moderation. 

[ToboRobot]

18 minutes ago, rcmaehl said:

The ramp company has no issue paying for people using the ramp.

The ramp company already pays other venues for people using its ramp

The ramp company is upset they're being asked to pay orders of magnitude higher than what is standard across the industry

Your first point seems to be incorrect.

The ramp company (3rd Party Apps) have customers paying for using the ramp.
The dispute is:
The ramp company has issue paying X for access to the building (Reddit)

Ramp Co (3rd Party Apps)
Reddit (Building)
API is the connection from the ramp to the building.

[redditrefugee1]

2 minutes ago, ToboRobot said:

I do understand that many people feel that they are charging too much.

Lets look for some market comparisons for this API content from Reddit.

What other sources are there for the Reddit API other than Reddit?


Ok, so there is one company with ownership of the content, and they are charging too much money for it. 

If I think LTT is charging too much money for Floatplane exclusive content, where can I go to get it for cheaper? 

If I think Ferrari is charging too much money for cars, where can I go to get a Ferrari for cheaper?

As you said, capitalism enables cusomers to go elsewhere for any reason at any time. 

Don't like Reddit, GO TO ANOTHER SOCIAL NETWORK.  Either Reddit realizes the loss of you is terrible and changes, or they die because everyone left, or some people leave and Reddit continues on.
 

Oh my god we agree. Someone check to see if the sky is falling. 

[Holmes108]

7 minutes ago, redditrefugee1 said:

If you think that rights they can take from others today won't be the rights they take away from you tomorrow you aren't paying attention. 

 

It's tough for the sheep says the cow. 

 

When companies arbitrarily changing things, and you say nothing just because it isn't you... don't complain when one day you are on the tough end. 

 

Yes, letting companies you patronize get away with screwing over others is bootlicking. 

 

I'm sorry if that leaves a bitter taste in your mouth. But if the shoe fits... 

 

I don't think you know what "rights" mean. This is the type of excessive drama (like the aforementioned suffrage reference) that makes it hard to take some here seriously. It's the result of a lack of real adversity in most of our lives, I think.

 

I like Reddit, I use it most days, but I think we're just too far apart to come to any type of understanding. 

[ToboRobot]

1 minute ago, redditrefugee1 said:

 

 

Content doesn't mean it's good or helpful. 

 

Yes.

"the principal substance (such as written matter, illustrations, or music) offered by a website"
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/content

 

Food is a broad category. 
Just because you want cake, and are served oatmeal raisin cookies, doesn't mean you didn't get served food.

Making a judgment on what is an is not content pretty much sums up your skewed and incoherent view of things in a nutshell. 

[ToboRobot]

4 minutes ago, redditrefugee1 said:

Oh my god we agree. Someone check to see if the sky is falling. 

So you agree that Reddit is the sole owner and source of Reddit's IP and therefore any 3rd parties who want to use that IP must pay the fee decided by Reddit for the access to their API? 

[IkeaGnome]

13 minutes ago, redditrefugee1 said:

If you think that rights they can take from others today won't be the rights they take away from you tomorrow you aren't paying attention. 

Exactly what rights are they taking from you?

[redditrefugee1]

26 minutes ago, Holmes108 said:

 

I don't think you know what "rights" mean. This is the type of excessive drama (like the aforementioned suffrage reference) that makes it hard to take some here seriously. It's the result of a lack of real adversity in most of our lives, I think.

 

I like Reddit, I use it most days, but I think we're just too far apart to come to any type of understanding. 

Yeah I think you're projecting here. People deal with a lot of terrible things in their lives. Some have gone to war, others have gone through cancer, lost a child, dealt with a disability, been the subject of horrible abuse... the number of terrible things that people go through can't be dismissed as "lacking real adversity"

 

Are all things on the same scale? Of course not. But there are at times important principals that people should stand up for and not accept lesser standards. Where that line is differs for everyone, but you can't just say "this isn't important" because you feel you aren't being impacted. Fairness and transparency are important principles. In this recent situation, Reddit's owners have shown that both are lacking. 

 

You can't change much in this life. But you can, on occasion, make a difference in a small yet important way. No one said you have to go all MLK any time you see injustice. But taking a reasonable stand? Like not buying a product, or not giving a company or politician your support? That's just basic "do the right thing". 

 

[ToboRobot]

11 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

Exactly what rights are they taking from you?

I assume accessibility is a human right.

[Holmes108]

Just now, ToboRobot said:

I assume accessibility is a human right.

 

This has nothing to do with Reddit.