lethal injection gone wrong

[ShiverMePenguins]

That smiley.

 

Also, being convicted by a jury isn't like people just wanting you to get the death penalty, there needs to be real evidence. I still don't think it's secure enough system to not end up killing the wrong person on occasion.

since 1990 there has been one instance of someone being taken off death row for being innocent, of which that person was later convicted of a smaller prison sentence of around 20 years for a crime committed three weeks after.

If I remember correctly there averages around 100 people dying on death row on average every year. 100 x 20 = 2000. 1 out of 2000 is a risk i'm willing to take no matter the cost. because there will always be human collateral and the best you can do is minimize it.

[LAwLz]

I don't think death penalty is okay, life imprisonment is much better even though it costs more.

It actually costs less.

 

Sadly option 1 sounds fine. If you think about it, ww2 would have ended very very badly if no innocent people were killed. We would not be on this forum right now and we would be in a situation similar to north Korea on a worldwide scale.

Killing when at war and killing when not at war are two completely different things.

How the hell do you think option 1 sounds fine? What difference does it make if someone is in jail until they die or killed on the spot? I am 90% sure you're just grasping at straws right now, not wanting to back down.

 

I'm glad they suffered. They weren't put on death row without reason.

Actually, a lot of people are put on death row for no reason. About 5% of them are.

[ShiverMePenguins]

Do you think they have such a low reoffending rate because of the kid gloves used for criminals or because they are a population of Norwegians?

they have a low re-offending rate because they treat people humane, and actually rehabilitate people so that they have other avenues and options other than crime.

[LAwLz]

except almost all of those 105 people were convicted of lesser crimes. they weren't released their sentence was reduced.

 

try some more you mad little child.

Even IF that's true (I haven't looked into each individual case but I am sure you have, right?) that's still 105 people that the US went "well these people deserve to die, oh wait actually they didn't commit that crime so they don't".

Also, your "average executions on death row per year" was so extremely off nobody will trust your word on the "nobody was entirely innocent" claim.

 

Also, calling someone a child does not make their arguments any less valid. You're the one that looks like a little kid here, calling anyone who disagrees with you a little child.

 

 

 

they have a low re-offending rate because they treat people humane, and actually rehabilitate people so that they have other avenues and options other than crime.

Sounds like a far better solution that to execute criminals as well as some innocent people, don't you agree?

[JAKEBAB]

I agree with death penalty but I think it's sick that they have a room so people can watch that is messed up! as for the injection I always thought it was more humane then electric chair because in movies the chair looks so painful and injection I thought would just kill them without even knowing like how dr death use to do it I've never heard of this happening before

[LAwLz]

so wait, because you like the idea your society presents american society and others must follow correct? because you the proverbial 12 year old genius are of the epitome of moral and objective understanding of the nuances in american culture and society. you know best because you lived in your sheltered home. you're an entitled child the same as every other ltt fan.

1) I am not from Norway.

2) Stop with the "you're just a kid!" arguments. If you're so obsessed with age then you can very easily check how old I am. No idea why that matters though (maybe it's something you use as an argument when you run out of actual arguments?).

3) You've still not backed up the numbers you pulled out of thin air before.

4) You're projecting so hard right now I can't even stay mad at you.

[AlwaysFSX]

execution is more expensive then life time prison

Only because of paperwork. The process really can be streamlined.

[RatedBlam]

The last time capital punishment Was carried out un Finland Was in the 1940s When an escaped convict murdered 6 People With an axe. The Second last time Was in the 1800s.

One of the reasons why he was executed was because pretty much the whole town wanted revenge on this man. It's quite funny to imagine an entire village actively wanting the death of a man. The whole townsfolk were basically reduced to their most basic form, uncivilized people.

[Jumper118]

It actually costs less.

 

Killing when at war and killing when not at war are two completely different things.

How the hell do you think option 1 sounds fine? What difference does it make if someone is in jail until they die or killed on the spot? I am 90% sure you're just grasping at straws right now, not wanting to back down from your idiotic position.

 

Actually, a lot of people are put on death row for no reason. About 5% of them are.

Look at the poll. You have just said yourself that 95% are exicuted correctly. That is avery good ratio and as long as its above 80:20 most people pwill agree with it. The money saved could be usedtodo more usful things that couldsave more people's lives that die, because of otherthings. Would yo rather givesome ofthe most evil scum in theworldaprolonged lifeand asecondchance or havethepotential tosavethousands of staving people. 

[LAwLz]

Look at the poll. You have just said yourself that 95% are exicuted correctly. That is avery good ratio and as long as its above 80:20 most people pwill agree with it. The money saved could be usedtodo more usful things that couldsave more people's lives that die, because of otherthings. Would yo rather givesome ofthe most evil scum in theworldaprolonged lifeand asecondchance or havethepotential tosavethousands of staving people. 

A 95% accuracy rate is not good enough if you ask me. We are talking about killing innocent people here. KILLING INNOCENT PEOPLE! Not even a 99.999% accuracy rate would be good enough for me since there is a better solution which do not require anyone to die.

I didn't 95% of executions are correct by the way, I said that ~5% of the people on death row are put there for no reason. There is a huge difference.

 

You don't save money with the death penalty, you lose money. It costs more to execute someone that it does to put them in prison until they die. I have given you multiple sources proving this and you completely ignore them.

[Jumper118]

A 95% accuracy rate is not good enough if you ask me. We are talking about killing innocent people here. KILLING INNOCENT PEOPLE! Not even a 99.999% accuracy rate would be good enough for me since there is a better solution which do not require anyone to die.

I didn't 95% of executions are correct by the way, I said that ~5% of the people on death row are put there for no reason. There is a huge difference.

 

You don't save money with the death penalty, you lose money. It costs more to execute someone that it does to put them in prison until they die. I have given you multiple sources proving this and you completely ignore them.

 

 

A 95% accuracy rate is not good enough if you ask me. We are talking about killing innocent people here. KILLING INNOCENT PEOPLE! Not even a 99.999% accuracy rate would be good enough for me since there is a better solution which do not require anyone to die.

I didn't 95% of executions are correct by the way, I said that ~5% of the people on death row are put there for no reason. There is a huge difference.

 

You don't save money with the death penalty, you lose money. It costs more to execute someone that it does to put them in prison until they die. I have given you multiple sources proving this and you completely ignore them.

I do ignore All your sources, because you have chosen them so they are obviously biased to your opinion. It really doesn't matter what either of us think anyway, because neither of us can vote on the matter.

[julekule]

I agree with death penalty but I think it's sick that they have a room so people can watch that is messed up! as for the injection I always thought it was more humane then electric chair because in movies the chair looks so painful and injection I thought would just kill them without even knowing like how dr death use to do it I've never heard of this happening before

THe people that watch are called witness. Acording to the law there have to be witnesses to comfirm the execution.

[LAwLz]

 I do ignore All your sources, because you have chosen them so they are obviously biased to your opinion. It really doesn't matter what either of us think anyway, because neither of us can vote on the matter.

I think you mean "I do ignore your sources because they do not agree with my predefined conclusion". So basically, I can't post any source that do not agree with you? That's a fantastic debate technique, ignore all evidence that contradict you.

You don't get to pick and choose which facts you want to believe in, just like you don't get to pick if 2+2=4, or that a circle is 360 degrees.

[Jumper118]

I think you mean "I do ignore your sources because they do not agree with my predefined conclusion". So basically, I can't post any source that do not agree with you? That's a fantastic debate technique, ignore all evidence that contradict you.

You don't get to pick and choose which facts you want to believe in, just like you don't get to pick if 2+2=4, or that a circle is 360 degrees.

this isn't a debate either its a discussion where you can express your opinion, not try to persuade or enforce it on others. you  can post any source you want, but you have hand picked them. i could do them same thing, but i wouldn't want to waste my time when you already know what you think. a jury decides whether people are executed or not in america. they all have to agree. that is fair based on the evidence they have. if the evidence is wrong then its just hard look, its just part of life.  

[Misanthrope]

wow, singapore makes Usa look good

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Singapore

 

While reading these I took a look at the "no longer in use" execution methods:

 

Methods no longer in use:

Blowing from a gun

Boiling

Breaking wheel

Burning

Crucifixion

Crushing

Disembowelment

Dismemberment

Drowning

Elephant

Flaying

Garrote

Hanged, drawn and quartered

Immurement

Impalement

Mazzatello

Premature burial

Sawing

Scaphism

Slow slicing

 

I mean come on, reading that list should pretty much tell you that historically the death penalty has always been about revenge and more than a little bit about sadism. If you're not sure and the reactions of "Good he deserved even worst!" on this thread don't convince you, look up the bold items, particularly Scaphism which I did look up (and I wish I didn't, that's some fucked up repugnant crap)

Life in prison is enough to guarantee the safety of other law abiding citizens. The costs should be brought down by investing in education and proper and opportune detection of deep psychiatric issues that drive men to antisocial behavior to try to understand and eliminate the problems. Killing prisoners only increases the cycle of revenge and ends up with "Death by Elephants" and other ridiculous nonsense, or goddess save you, scaphism..... :mellow:

[Art Vandelay]

since 1990 there has been one instance of someone being taken off death row for being innocent, of which that person was later convicted of a smaller prison sentence of around 20 years for a crime committed three weeks after.

If I remember correctly there averages around 100 people dying on death row on average every year. 100 x 20 = 2000. 1 out of 2000 is a risk i'm willing to take no matter the cost. because there will always be human collateral and the best you can do is minimize it.

There's no reason why you can't just give them life in prison...

[mr moose]

I got into this debate a while ago, after doing the research, I can't understand why any rational person would endorse the death penalty.   Some things to research:

 

1. the cost of execution versus the cost of life imprisonment.

2. the number of posthumous pardons <- this alone should be enough

3. the proof that it neither corrects criminal behaviour nor deters it.

4. the studies that have gone into all the circumstances that put a person on death row and how majority of them could have been avoided if the money put into the death penalty was put into early intervention.

 

prevention is better than the cure:

[LAwLz]

While reading these I took a look at the "no longer in use" execution methods:

 

 

I mean come on, reading that list should pretty much tell you that historically the death penalty has always been about revenge and more than a little bit about sadism. If you're not sure and the reactions of "Good he deserved even worst!" on this thread don't convince you, look up the bold items, particularly Scaphism which I did look up (and I wish I didn't, that's some fucked up repugnant crap)

Life in prison is enough to guarantee the safety of other law abiding citizens. The costs should be brought down by investing in education and proper and opportune detection of deep psychiatric issues that drive men to antisocial behavior to try to understand and eliminate the problems. Killing prisoners only increases the cycle of revenge and ends up with "Death by Elephants" and other ridiculous nonsense, or goddess save you, scaphism..... :mellow:

Some of those are so absurd I don't know if I should laugh or cry.

 

 

I got into this debate a while ago, after doing the research, I can't understand why any rational person would endorse the death penalty.   Some things to research:

 

1. the cost of execution versus the cost of life imprisonment.

2. the number of posthumous pardons <- this alone should be enough

3. the proof that it neither corrects criminal behaviour nor deters it.

4. the studies that have gone into all the circumstances that put a person on death row and how majority of them could have been avoided if the money put into the death penalty was put into early intervention.

 

prevention is better than the cure:

<video>

Well most people that are for the death penalty have no idea what they are talking about (like make up false numbers), or are completely irrational. A few pages back someone said that he would be willing to kill his own mother, and take money from the government that would fund schools and hospitals, if it meant 25 people sentenced to life in prison would be executed instead. You'd think that having the same opinion as someone willing to kill his own mom for no reason would be a wake up call but apparently not.

[Puppet]

Do you think they have such a low reoffending rate because of the kid gloves used for criminals or because they are a population of Norwegians?

 

Both, I think it is a good society in general.

 

The prison system there is a part of that though. It actually makes a lot of sense, typical systems do very little in terms of rehabilitation and if the plan is to release the person back in to society at a certain point then there should be more bias towards this.

 

All criminals are in a bad place to begin with, but most prison systems exasperate criminals, lots end up with benzo and opiate addictions, are exposed to violence and are given the bare minimum living conditions, also pushing them further into criminal behavior by association.

 

It seems right but if you treat criminals this way it justifies the act that got them there in the first place, they feel like they have 'paid' for it, maybe they feel they could 'pay' for it again?

 

The Norwegian system is good because they are still contained outside society but are given a decent life, an actual education and the opportunity to appreciate why the majority of people stay within the law. It completely negates the need for drugs and violence with in the system, but to me the really clever part about it is the guilt, they actually feel real guilt for being treated so well, which in my opinion is far more important than actually 'paying' for the crime. 

[TetraSky]

Depends on the crime... If you raped / killed / mutilated multiple people with serious evidence against you, not just some witness, I honestly don't believe you should be allowed to live comfortably for the rest of your life off tax payers money... (Seriously, the prison near here has a POOL in it. That the inmates "paid" for with their "salaries"...)

[LOST TALE]

Death penalty presently:

 

1. It costs 3 times more.

2. It is discriminatory (accused badly defended for financial reasons, not the worse that get death penalty)

3. Very low dissuasive effect, more bad then good social effect.

 

for me, something is moral when its good for both individual and society.

 

Death penalty is bad for society, and bad for individuals ( unfair )

----------

 

Depends on the crime blablablabla, keep dreaming. The above is how well it works. We'll hopefully have better options in the future.

[ixi_your_face]

Just a friendly reminder to keep this thread clean and respectful.

I'll be watching this thread.

[ericlee30]

I first off I want to say I am against the death penalty, but once again, housing someone on death row is not more expensive then housing an inmate for the rest of their life. If anyone is including the trial of an inmate that is facing death row charges, then yes, their trials are a lot more expensive  then a none capital case and I do not object to that and fully agree with you guys, but also most top lawyers are knocking down doors trying to get a pro bono capital case just so they can get into a higher firm. The chances that a inmate that has a capital case will be appointed by a public defender is slim to none, It has worked like that for ages and nothing new.

 

So then you guys must be relating the cost to housing? Nope cant be that either. What is the difference between an inmate on Death Row and an inmate that has to spend his/her inter stay at a correctional facility in the SHU (Solitary Housing Unit) ? Nothing they get the Same bed, same food, same medical attention, same indigent packages ( hygiene kits ) same commissary,etc....

 

So then what is the deference between a "Gen pop" ( general population ) inmate and a Death Row inmate? The Death Row inmate is locked down in their cell 22 hours out of the day and the Gen pop inmate is not, other then that is there anything different? Nope, same bed, same food, same medical attention, same indigent packages ( hygiene kits ) same commissary, etc....

 

On average it cost $135 a day to house any inmate no mater what their crime is, I did the math before so I will just quote what I wrote the first time " In the USA, a state correctional facility gets payed around $135 per an inmate a day by the Taxes payers and it cost less the $3.75 to feed each inmate per a day. So for an example,lets say an inmate has a minimum sentence of 25 years, that is $1,231,875 over that inmates stay at the correctional facility.That is only 25 years, now there are plenty of inmates with life in prison which is a 40 year sentence, so you can pretty much double that for those inmates. I say that is a whole lot more then what lethal injection cost for inmates on death row."

 

still need prof? Here is a PDF file from a county that I use to live by http://www.jocosheriff.org/modules/showdocument.aspx?documentid=54

There daily cost per an inmate a day is $102.91 to house and thats only one county and one jail, now you think that number gets cheaper in the DOC ( Department Of Corrections )? Nope, inmates are coming in and out and getting transferred on a daily basis in the DOC just like in the county jail. The only difference between county jail and prison is that you don't get to go outside in the county jail unless you are a trusty ( inmate that the CO's (correctional officer) trust) or going to court.

 

Page 7 of the PDF

 

Page 8 of the PDF

 

Now I am going to give one more example- Denise Rader ( A.K.A ) "BTK Killer"

 

 

This man did not get the death penalty, instead the State of Kansas gave him minimum of 175 years in a Max Facility in Eldorado Kansas, now we all know he will not ever complete his sentence so we will break it down to only 60 years max before he dies. So $135 a day for 60 years is = $2,956,500 for his stay in Eldorado. Now show me a Death Row inmate that cost more then that to house in the Department of Corrections, not tried and housed, just housed?

[Blade of Grass]

 

 

I do ignore All your sources, because you have chosen them so they are obviously biased to your opinion. It really doesn't matter what either of us think anyway, because neither of us can vote on the matter.

I'm against the death penalty, but after a quick google search to do some research on cost, here's what I've found:

 

Amnesty USA

Statistics Brain

NBC

Forbes

Fox News

Economist

NY Times

USA Today

BBC

University of Barcelona

ACLU

 

I've obviously sampled from a plethora of sites, all with different political views (Amnesty - Liberal, NY Times - Liberal, , USA Today - Center, Forbes - Center/right of center, Fox - Conservative), but they all seem to agree that it's more expensive. I couldn't find a single credible site saying it's cheaper.

If you can find a site stating it's cheaper, I will be very interested in reading it.

 

EDIT: I searched exactly this: "how much does death row cost"

Here were the results (not cherry picking links)

[Almercenary]

If they are going to go for a death penalty, at least choose something a little cheaper like firing squad.  Problem with death penalty though is if you get the wrong person, you wrongly execute an innocent person, which is the stupidest thing. Personally on the fence about it. The Australian tax payer pays so much to keep fuckers in prison, and that number keeps rising every year. And especially in Aus, it's hard to get more than life time. A guy got caught with 1 ton of cocaine and only got sentence to life (25 years). A serial killer though, would be sentence to more than one life though?  Maybe it is a "good" thing.