Apple caught ignoring privacy settings and sending telemetry info

[wanderingfool2]

Despite having a disable sharing analytics Apple has been still sending back information regarding search history, stock information, etc from their own apps and ignoring the privacy settings.  A lawsuit has been launched in regards to this, alleging that Apple is in violation of California privacy laws.  Apple won't be able to hide behind their wall of secrecy too much longer or try claiming it isn't analytics as one of the sites it sends data to literally has analytics in the name.

 

It was also mentioned that based on Apple's website, they consider what they do for ads not tracking as they collect information on you and don't share it with 3rd parties or use 3rd party data (instead they just serve targeted ads to you based on what they can tell about you...but that's not tracking according to Apple)

 

https://gizmodo.com/apple-iphone-analytics-tracking-even-when-off-app-store-1849757558

Quote

The iPhone Analytics setting makes an explicit promise. Turn it off, and Apple says that it will “disable the sharing of Device Analytics altogether.” However, Tommy Mysk and Talal Haj Bakry, two app developers and security researchers at the software company Mysk, took a look at the data collected by a number of Apple iPhone apps—the App Store, Apple Music, Apple TV, Books, and Stocks. They found the analytics control and other privacy settings had no obvious effect on Apple’s data collection—the tracking remained the same whether iPhone Analytics was switched on or off.

Quote

Apple says you shouldn’t think of what it does as “tracking.” According to the company’s website:
 

    Apple’s advertising platform does not track you, meaning that it does not link user or device data collected from our apps with user or device data collected from third parties for targeted advertising or advertising measurement purposes, and does not share user or device data with data brokers.
 

In other words, it’s not tracking unless you’re linking together data collected from services owned by different companies. If only one company—Apple—is collecting the data, then by Apple’s definition, it’s not tracking. Of course, that’s different from the definition of tracking that everyone else seems to use.

 

 

Overall it's not really surprising.  Apple has always been a champion of double speak, or blatantly lying knowing the average consumer won't know.  If the lawsuit that has started against them can use discovery in a meaningful way, hopefully we will be able to figure out how much information Apple has really collected (and how much information they collected despite having it toggled off).  I honestly wonder what will happen to Apple if it turns out to have sensitive information as well how much the lawsuit or even regulatory body will be able to take from Apple.

 

This really is Apple though once again being hypocritical in their actions.

[suicidalfranco]

Wut? Trillion dollar US based company caught lying? Say it ain't so!

[Quackers101]

like 99% of the others, privacy is just whatever privacy they want to accept. not you.

Same with their "security", then adding 1 step forward in solving risks, but going 100 steps back in adding many flawed ways to be unsecure.

[kirashi]

1 hour ago, wanderingfool2 said:

Despite having a disable sharing analytics Apple has been still sending back information regarding search history, stock information, etc from their own apps and ignoring the privacy settings.  A lawsuit has been launched in regards to this, alleging that Apple is in violation of California privacy laws.  Apple won't be able to hide behind their wall of secrecy too much longer or try claiming it isn't analytics as one of the sites it sends data to literally has analytics in the name.

 

It was also mentioned that based on Apple's website, they consider what they do for ads not tracking as they collect information on you and don't share it with 3rd parties or use 3rd party data (instead they just serve targeted ads to you based on what they can tell about you...but that's not tracking according to Apple)

 

https://gizmodo.com/apple-iphone-analytics-tracking-even-when-off-app-store-1849757558

 

 

Overall it's not really surprising.  Apple has always been a champion of double speak, or blatantly lying knowing the average consumer won't know.  If the lawsuit that has started against them can use discovery in a meaningful way, hopefully we will be able to figure out how much information Apple has really collected (and how much information they collected despite having it toggled off).  I honestly wonder what will happen to Apple if it turns out to have sensitive information as well how much the lawsuit or even regulatory body will be able to take from Apple.

 

This really is Apple though once again being hypocritical in their actions.

Color me surprised! Remember kids: if you can't view the source code, you don't really know what the software is doing.  

[Blademaster91]

Not really surprised, Apple has a reputation for lying and being misleading to their consumers until they get sued.

At least Google is upfront about what data they collect on you.

[suicidalfranco]

[yolosnail]

[mr moose]

 

 

But this is what they tell their customers.

 

[Arika]

awaiting the:

Quote

But Google/Microsoft/Amazon/literally any other company is worse!!!!!

 

[AlTech]

6 minutes ago, Arika S said:

awaiting the:

 

In many ways Apple is worse than the companies you listed because they lie about spying on you.

 

The others don't lie about it,

[Fasterthannothing]

3 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

You have no idea how true this is. As someone who works in software engineering and has had many discussions with our ad team we can buy any information that was being previously sent from iphones before apples privacy settings and supposedly "secured" your data. All it meant was we have to go through a Apple data broker instead of Facebook to get the exact same info. The words from our ad guy was "don't worry we can still get all the same data we just have to go through Apple to get it"

[Doobeedoo]

It's for your own security.

[Commodus]

I'm of mixed minds. I definitely want Apple to live up to its privacy claims, and this violates the spirit of what the company is touting even if the collection isn't as far-reaching as Google's. I'm not a big fan of Apple letting ads gradually seep into products, no matter how restrained the implementations are.

 

At the same time, I'm laughing at the folks who blast Apple as an eeeeeevil company while running into the arms of Google, a company whose very business revolves around mining your data (if not as egregiously as some claim). Being up-front about your practices doesn't matter much if those practices are ultimately worse. That and I find it telling that many people are simply demonizing Apple instead of calling on it to fix its practices; they don't want Apple to do better, they want a total Android monopoly.

[WhitetailAni]

8 hours ago, wanderingfool2 said:

Apple won't be able to hide behind their wall of secrecy too much longer or try claiming it isn't analytics as one of the sites it sends data to literally has analytics in the name.

This point makes no sense to me. I can host a website with the domain nsa-data-log.net and send data to it. Doesn't mean it's NSA data logging.

[suicidalfranco]

35 minutes ago, Commodus said:

the collection isn't as far-reaching as Google's

Press X for Doubt.

36 minutes ago, Commodus said:

running into the arms of Google

where did you see that? I definitely can't find it

37 minutes ago, Commodus said:

simply demonizing Apple instead of calling on it to fix its practices; they don't want Apple to do better, they want a total Android monopoly

 

2 hours ago, Arika S said:

awaiting the:

 

It didn't take long 

[wanderingfool2]

44 minutes ago, FakeKGB said:

This point makes no sense to me. I can host a website with the domain nsa-data-log.net and send data to it. Doesn't mean it's NSA data logging.

It actually does.  If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck then it's a duck.  Given that it's sending what many would consider to be analytic data, Apple would have a hard time arguing (in court) that they don't consider it analytics when you are literally sending the data from the app to a specific site that manages it which has analytics in it's name.  It shows the intent of what the data.

 

57 minutes ago, Commodus said:

At the same time, I'm laughing at the folks who blast Apple as an eeeeeevil company while running into the arms of Google, a company whose very business revolves around mining your data (if not as egregiously as some claim). Being up-front about your practices doesn't matter much if those practices are ultimately worse. That and I find it telling that many people are simply demonizing Apple instead of calling on it to fix its practices; they don't want Apple to do better, they want a total Android monopoly.

What we want is effectively transparency, not hiding behind lies.  People know very well what Android is doing, and Alphabet makes no secret in terms of what they collect.  What makes Apple "evil" is that they literally advertise and make promises regarding privacy/security and yet they don't.  Go up to any non-techy person and ask them about Android and Apple.  Lots of the people will gush about how Apple protects their privacy or that Google tracks everything...they even go as far to thinking that everything you say is advertised and uploaded.

 

The tl;dr people don't think Google is great, but the action of actively lying about what as a company is being done is what really irks people about Apple.

[Commodus]

11 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

where did you see that? I definitely can't find it

If you swear off all Apple products, your only practical choice is... guess who? Unless you intend to use a Pinephone or cling to a years-old Lumia 950 for dear life, anyway.

 

I'm not saying folks explicitly endorse everything Google does, but calling it the lesser evil on privacy is more than a little ironic. And let's be honest, they're probably enthusiastic about their Android phones without giving much thought about their platform's privacy implications.

[wanderingfool2]

11 minutes ago, Commodus said:

If you swear off all Apple products, your only practical choice is... guess who? Unless you intend to use a Pinephone or cling to a years-old Lumia 950 for dear life, anyway.

 

I'm not saying folks explicitly endorse everything Google does, but calling it the lesser evil on privacy is more than a little ironic. And let's be honest, they're probably enthusiastic about their Android phones without giving much thought about their platform's privacy implications.

Well if you really cared about privacy above all else, you could always install one of the Android ROMS that have the privacy aspects.

[Commodus]

3 minutes ago, wanderingfool2 said:

What we want is effectively transparency, not hiding behind lies.  People know very well what Android is doing, and Alphabet makes no secret in terms of what they collect.  What makes Apple "evil" is that they literally advertise and make promises regarding privacy/security and yet they don't.  Go up to any non-techy person and ask them about Android and Apple.  Lots of the people will gush about how Apple protects their privacy or that Google tracks everything...they even go as far to thinking that everything you say is advertised and uploaded.

 

The tl;dr people don't think Google is great, but the action of actively lying about what as a company is being done is what really irks people about Apple.

I want transparency too, but I'd say the situation is more complex than that. Apple is generally more respectful of privacy than Google is, even with these problems; Google also isn't a horrible monster. I'd rather Apple come clean on what it's doing, but this is far from the proverbial last straw that would make someone ditch their iPhone in protest.

[wanderingfool2]

Just now, Commodus said:

I want transparency too, but I'd say the situation is more complex than that. Apple is generally more respectful of privacy than Google is, even with these problems; Google also isn't a horrible monster. I'd rather Apple come clean on what it's doing, but this is far from the proverbial last straw that would make someone ditch their iPhone in protest.

...and you are basing that Apple is more respectful based on?  They are already actively tracking you for ads...it's just they aren't combing it with a 3rd party...but that also is because they really wouldn't need to, they have the information they need.

 

The fact is if Apple lies about what they are doing and all the telemetry data they are sending is encrypted then you can't really know whether or not they are being respectful of your privacy (the only reason they were able to figure this out is by jail breaking to decrypt the packets)

[Commodus]

4 minutes ago, wanderingfool2 said:

...and you are basing that Apple is more respectful based on?  They are already actively tracking you for ads...it's just they aren't combing it with a 3rd party...but that also is because they really wouldn't need to, they have the information they need.

 

The fact is if Apple lies about what they are doing and all the telemetry data they are sending is encrypted then you can't really know whether or not they are being respectful of your privacy (the only reason they were able to figure this out is by jail breaking to decrypt the packets)

Among other examples, there's the "do not track" request you can make within apps (and which is offered by default the first time it becomes relevant). You know, the privacy-oriented feature that broke a major aspect of Meta's business model. No, you can't always know that Apple is doing the right thing, but there are certain areas where it's demonstrably more protective of privacy than Google.

 

Google is much better about privacy than it was in years past, but the fact remains that it still thrives on a more permissive attitude toward data than Apple.

[wanderingfool2]

3 minutes ago, Commodus said:

Among other examples, there's the "do not track" request you can make within apps (and which is offered by default the first time it becomes relevant). You know, the privacy-oriented feature that broke a major aspect of Meta's business model. No, you can't always know that Apple is doing the right thing, but there are certain areas where it's demonstrably more protective of privacy than Google.

 

Google is much better about privacy than it was in years past, but the fact remains that it still thrives on a more permissive attitude toward data than Apple.

Back when Apple implemented it's feature I've said it before and I'll say it again.  It's a ploy to give Apple more control in the ad space market.  Given that they are ignoring effectively the do no track for themselves...and conveniently they left it so they would be allowed to circumvent the do not track for individual apps themselves.  That's not anything to do about "privacy", they are simply using it as an excuse.

 

In essence what I'm saying is yes Apple broke Meta's and Google "tracking"...but in doing so they opened the door to be more profitable in their own adverts, which they conveniently exempted from the policy.

[Dracarris]

17 minutes ago, Dean0919 said:

At least Android phones don't cost shit amount of money or non Apple laptops and computers don't cost shit amount of money. At least on non Apple market you have far more choice. Even freaking Apple charger is expensive. Apple is literally sucking out and milking money from its customers and they're fine with that.

Unless you compare with products that play in totally different segments/leagues, that is blatantly wrong. Even ignoring the fact that for all major product lines (phones, tablets, laptops) there exist quite affordable entry-level devices from Apple since a few years. Yet they still have all the "premium" characteristics that every Apple product has (hint: they have nothing to do with Ghz, Gbyte, Pixels, Hz, or any other spec-sheet number, but for starters including longevity and support/updates) - sth that with absolute certainty can't be said for other brands.

 

And if taken proper care of, Apple devices on average last much longer and need to be replaced less frequently, so unless you actively decide for yourself to always want the latest and greatest, there is no milking whatsoever. Spare mit with any BS that "Apple forces you to replace your phone every year", that couldn't be further from the truth.

2 hours ago, Commodus said:

I'm of mixed minds. I definitely want Apple to live up to its privacy claims, and this violates the spirit of what the company is touting even if the collection isn't as far-reaching as Google's. I'm not a big fan of Apple letting ads gradually seep into products, no matter how restrained the implementations are.

Even if everything from above is true, their data collection is still in a different severity and user-impact universe compared to what Google does. Where does Apple serve me ads exactly? In the App Store, which I open every few months, if at all, and spend 1-5min in it? Meanwhile, at which occassions do I get served Google-based ads?

 

But yeah, get the pitchforks ready. This thread has already developed into the usual few forum suspects one-offing each other about how horrible Apple is.

[Commodus]

6 minutes ago, Dean0919 said:

At least Android phones don't cost shit amount of money or non Apple laptops and computers don't cost shit amount of money. At least on non Apple market you have far more choice. Even freaking Apple charger is expensive. Apple is literally sucking out and milking money from its customers and they're fine with that.

You do have much more choice with Android, but that's because Apple is aiming at the higher end of the market; customers are "fine with that" because they usually get what they paid for. This leaves a way-too-large gap, and it's very important that you can buy a $100 Android phone or $300 Windows laptop, but let's not act as if Google and its partners are being generous here — they're just chasing after the customers Apple has decided it doesn't need.

[suicidalfranco]

1 hour ago, Commodus said:

If you swear off all Apple products, your only practical choice is... guess who? Unless you intend to use a Pinephone or cling to a years-old Lumia 950 for dear life, anyway.

 

I'm not saying folks explicitly endorse everything Google does, but calling it the lesser evil on privacy is more than a little ironic. And let's be honest, they're probably enthusiastic about their Android phones without giving much thought about their platform's privacy implications.

no no, you said people were running into google's arm in this thread. Please point me where exactly people are praising google. And now also show me where people are saying google is the lesser evil.