Are you trying to be eco friendly?

[Lairlair]

In the last few years I've increasingly looked into the ins and outs of the ecological crisis. And it probably doesn't come as a surprise but the tech industry isn't the cleanest. To mention a few things: all the minerals needed require a lot of mining on different continents, which needs a lot of transport, which needs a lot of packaging, and needs a lot energy. So lots of pollution, waste, and CO₂ emissions. Plus the energy costs of using these devices which likely become obsolete and are dumped in a landfill. Not to mention the poor conditions many workers have to endure to produce all that. I know there's worse and I'm not here to guilt trip you. If anything I'm just as guilty as you with my Ryzen 9 5900x. I guess I want to share these thoughts feeling trapped between the excitement for technical progress, and thinking it's all useless crap created by companies to fill a need they also created, just so they can maximize their profits. On the other hand, I really like video games and I think they have an intrinsic value as entertainment, cultural piece or art, and all that is enabled by accessible and innovative tech. But when I see the awful floods in Pakistan, or the terrible droughts and heatwaves we've had here in Europe, I can't help but wonder: is it all worth it? Do we really need raytracing or is it time to stop here and now before we are forced to?

Thoughts? What are you doing as an attempt to be eco friendly?

[Somerandomtechyboi]

Yea i dont do anything to be directly eco friendly and if i do then thats indirectly eco friendly and likely tied to power bills or tied to making money (i fix broken boards to sell but may expand to gpus later on)

[solado]

Yup, I am trying my best to adjust my life style to try impact the environment less.

 

I don't drive anymore, sold my car a few years ago rather than buying a new one just decided to try live without it and it's easier than it might seem. Most places deliver now and an excuse for me to walk more. If I need to get somewhere, I can just grab an Uber. Also easy to just get a car rental for a short time if something else comes up.

 

PC parts I used to always need the latest and greatest. Now I am more into second hand used parts to prevent them going into landfill or just making a perfectly good item obsolete for no reason. Currently running a 3700x and my next upgrade will be a second hand 5900x or 5950x. I want to keep behind a generation or two for the sake of the environment and not create e-waste for no reason. My old parts also go into my girlfriends computer and she's more than happy with the performance as a casual gamer or I donate them to a charity who builds computers for disadvantaged so I know it's going to use.

 

Cloths I buy when they're run ragged. I still wear cloths from 8-9 years ago and refuse to take part in the fast fasion game. I switch off lights and run a USB desk lamp rather than bulb lighting, I undervolt my PC parts when not doing anything intensive like work or gaming.

 

It's not much but I try do my part.

 

 

[manikyath]

'eco friendly' is a weird critter in the tech space, and like most debates, there's extremists on both sides.

 

the problem with the "is it all worth it?" question is that it really is a misnomer in a lot of ways. as it turns out more efficient transport methods are good for the wallet of transport companies, so advancements in technology mean that these enormous ships, despite burning lots of fuel, burn a LOT less 'per unit of freight' than they used to.

 

beyond that.. here's the problem:

this isnt a "big picture" problem, because all of this technology that is supposedly extremely harmful to our environment is also the same technology that allows us to protect it.

- computers in cars meant that they can run more efficiently than a mechanical carbeurator can.

- the exchange of information means better healthcare and more awareness about what impact our lifestyle has on other parts of the world.

- chemical industry has given us fuel additives to reduce pollution (as opposed to.. .sticking lead in it), better insulation for our homes, and tyres that optimize friction against drag to have us drive safer and more efficient.

 

in my opinion, there's also another, much more 'sinister' problem with the "is it worth it" question:

Let's say we assume it's all really not worth it, and we should reverse technologic advances for the sake of environment and well being... what do we get rid of? how far back do we go? it really ends up being the "should we all go back to living in caves?" thing, because any step beyond that is a step downhill in at least some way.

 

NOW... cynical me aside.. here's some realistic things:

- single-use plastics are a problem, especially if recyclation efforts, or just propper disposal, are inadequate. the very benefit of plastics (they dont degrade as quick as, say, paper) are the very problem. reduce, reuse, recycle.

- the power consumption or 'how high end' your computer is, is irrelevant in the bigger picture. disposing of tech that is still usable, planned obsolesence, and people unnecessary leaving things running 24/7 are the bigger problem. learn to turn off your computer, you dont need the latest iphone every year, and you dont need the latest GPU every year.

- Fossil fuels are a problem, but so are batteries and electricity generation. dont buy an EV to be eco friendly if you often make long distance drives, or if your local power plants are running on fossil fuels. you're literally just moving the problem elsewhere to make yourself feel better with your 2 tonnes of rare earth metals. on the flip side, if you literally only commute 20km.. do you really even need a car at all?

- DONT. TRHOW. AWAY. FOOD. by god this is something i have serious issues with in my family. we're pretty well off, we dont have to look at 50 bucks more, but the amount of food some family members bring home to let spoil, and then throw away.. is shocking. thrown away food is wasted power to have it refrigerated, wasted transport cost, wasted warehouse staff processing it, wasted farmland, and wasted chemicals used on said farmlands to keep the wasted crops healthy.

 

as for what i do...

- i use my computers basicly until they fall apart.

- i try to dispose of waste as correctly as possible

- i buy foods that have a shelf life of "most likely longer than i will take to eat it". it's not difficult, it just requires your brain to be *on* in the supermarket.

- i turn off my desktop every day, and because i'm a home server type of person, i try to account for that to the best of my ability: in the summer the servers sit well away from airconditioned rooms, so i dont have to aircon more because of them. in the winter they move to the (then) heated rooms, so the power they use is essentially used as heating, essentially reducing the power usage on that side.

- i do my research when buying things, to make sure they will last a sensible lifespan. this fuels my hatred for cloud-connected stuff, and devices that are difficult to maintain.

- i try to buy things 'as local as sensible', and use transport companies with a good track record where possible otherwise. next-day free shipping to my front door is actually impossible if you arent breaking labor laws.. oh, i guess you are then. and if i have to order, i prefer to combine stuff into one big order, because i really dont want that minivan to have to drive to my house every week.

- personal pet peeve i like to add: i dont use eco mode on my dishwasher. the problem with eco mode on a dishwasher is that you have to do so much pre-rinsing, and have so much 'oh the dishes arent clean', that for what it saves on paper, you've lost all that and then some in reality. oh.. and dont use detergent packs, use powder.

 

i know that a lot of this isnt "tech" as in the scope of this forum, but in my opinion tech also is that one thing that we as "the people" cant change a thing about, other than to change our purchasing habits. other stuff like transport, shipping, and 'managing the household' can have a much more direct impact not only on the world around us, but funnily enough.. also save us money. it's odd how it all comes back to greed in the end, isnt it?

[Arika]

i have an oversized solar panel system and battery so my power usage is negligible.

though it wasn't to be green or eco, i am just sick of my power going out once a month for god knows how long because powercor is shit.

 

so good side effect.

[Needfuldoer]

I've made quite a few changes over the last few years that lowered my monthly operating expenses, and are better for the environment as a side bonus.

 

- My car is a plug-in hybrid and I drive on electricity the majority of the time. Our electric generation is primarily natural gas up here, but it's still substantially cheaper per mile than running on gasoline. I get about 4 miles per kilowatt ("120 MPGe") vs 40 MPG, so cost parity is when a gallon of gas costs about as much as 10 kilowatt-hours of electricity. I've never paid anywhere near 35 cents per kilowatt-hour. The closest it's gotten was back in 2020 when the world got flipped upside down and the complete lack of demand tanked the price of gas. Even then, my home electric rate still worked out cheaper.

 

- I air sealed and insulated my attic and basement. The attic got a couple cans' worth of "Pro" fire block spray foam insulation on all the wire chases and top plates, then I added insulation on top of the existing batts. (Some parts went from R30 to R60.) In the basement I went from an R0 on the rim joist to about an R25 by adding 2" rigid foam and mineral wool insulation. I also spray-foamed all the gaps in the joist bays and replaced the fiberglass batts in the basement ceiling with mineral wool. The good batts (that weren't previously infested) went in the attic. I did this before last winter, and it made a noticeable difference.

 

- I had an air-source heat pump installed, replacing resistive electric heat. That alone cut my winter heating bill by 2/3 and means I don't have to deal with window ACs anymore.

 

- I replaced the 30 year old, drafty, uninsulated windows with new vinyl, low-E, double pane windows. One exterior door was in tough shape, so I replaced that too.

 

- Almost everything I buy is secondhand, because I'm cheap and not very picky.

 

- I recycle everything I can, mainly because in my area we pay by the bag to throw away garbage but they'll take all the mixed recycle you've got at no additional charge. Bubble wrap and plastic bags get dumped in the store drop-off.

[Totallycasual]

15 minutes ago, Arika S said:

i have an oversized solar panel system

 

Yeah same here, i live 100% off of solar+battery, not sure how much better off the environment is when you calculate the manufacture of my panels and battery bank, but it is what it is

 

I live the way i live because i like to be independent and not at the mercy of the grid, not because I'm especially eco friendly. 

[mr moose]

I am ecofriendly in as much as I am frugal with tech,  I make each computer I have last at least 8 years, mostly I get a good decade before I upgrade anything,  I do not upgrade my phone until my current one no longer works, and I mean Literally, I will not buy a new phone Until my current one no longer makes calls or the battery only lasts half a day. 

 

Honestly, I get more pissed with tech companies that do nothing for labor conditions in 3rd world countries than I do about climate change.  Humans first, then the ecosystems, then climate.  There is no point in trying to fix the climate if you wipe out people doing it.   

[Erioch]

No.  I mean, I don't throw trash on the ground but that's about it.

[cyndagon]

We recycle, try to buy food smart. My cars could be better? But cost wise it currently doesn't make sense for me to replace my 4 door sedan and get a plug in hybrid.. yet. My 2022 MX-5 gets 36+ MPG highway, so while it's run on pure gas, it at least gets good MPG's unlike 75% of the people where I work who drive crossovers and pickups. My HVAC (Nest) at home is mostly run on eco mode during the day (I can't sleep if it's too warm in my room) and I gather more "nest leaves" then most people in my community. 

I'd love to live in a more mixed use space, but the suburbs are better for my family and we have zero public transportation, so getting rid of the vehicles is impossible. I'm a car enthusiast though so it's hard.

At least during the winter my 5800x3d and 3080ti will heat my room..

 

[Lairlair]

2 hours ago, mr moose said:

Honestly, I get more pissed with tech companies that do nothing for labor conditions in 3rd world countries than I do about climate change

Fair point. I think the issues are related though: the Indian workers that trashed their iPhone factory in protest for their working conditions are also more likely to suffer and die from heatwaves caused by climate change. Caring for one thing doesn't mean excluding the other, as they often work co-jointly
 

3 hours ago, manikyath said:

efficient transport methods are good for the wallet of transport companies

Advancements in efficiency sound like good news. A side effect I hear seldom about is that it leads to more consumption. If something becomes more affordable you tend to use more of it, not less. In my mother tongue we call that a rebound effect or bouncing effect. That's why the whole argument around 5G being more efficient per data is not relevant, because the increase in volume will by far outweigh any benefits and will prompt the production of more connected objects we proooobably don't need.

 

3 hours ago, manikyath said:

should we all go back to living in caves?

To continue on the connected objects: I can definitely do without a bottle opener that sends a notification to my friends. Refusing some questionable technical progress doesn't mean we have to regress on everything else. It's not like we're driving down progress road and the further you go the better, and being eco friendly means doing a U turn and driving down the other way. That would imply that there was a primal time where humans lived in harmony with their environment and I don't know that it's true. Maybe we just need to slow down and think instead of attacking the Amish straw-man. What do we get rid of is indeed the question, as an example riding your bike instead of your car might not feel like going back in terms of progress because it has many benefits on your well being, emits no CO₂, takes less space, costs less, is less dangerous for others... But it doesn't mean giving up cars forever and for everyone, as was mentioned before:

4 hours ago, solado said:

easy to just get a car rental for a short time if something else comes up.

 

4 hours ago, solado said:

I donate them to a charity who builds computers for disadvantaged

 

That's a good idea! I'll look if there's anything like that in my area

 

Thanks everyone for replying, it's cool to read different ideas and opinions

[manikyath]

4 minutes ago, Lairlair said:

A side effect I hear seldom about is that it leads to more consumption.

i agree, but that is a problem caused by a consumption mindset, not *because* it is affordable.

 

5 minutes ago, Lairlair said:

To continue on the connected objects: I can definitely do without a bottle opener that sends a notification to my friends. Refusing some questionable technical progress doesn't mean we have to regress on everything else. It's not like we're driving down progress road and the further you go the better, and being eco friendly means doing a U turn and driving down the other way. That would imply that there was a primal time where humans lived in harmony with their environment and I don't know that it's true. Maybe we just need to slow down and think instead of attacking the Amish straw-man. What do we get rid of is indeed the question, as an example riding your bike instead of your car might not feel like going back in terms of progress because it has many benefits on your well being, emits no CO₂, takes less space, costs less, is less dangerous for others... But it doesn't mean giving up cars forever and for everyone, as was mentioned before:

i mentioned the 'straw man' argument just because this is the problem: what is a sensible solution? for some people the idea of giving up their car for short rides is already a ridiculous premise. others may be just fine with riding their bike, but would feel insulted in their freedom if they werent allowed to water the plants in the summer.

 

the reason why this is, in my view, an 'all or nothing' issue, is because legistlation that relies on opinion is inherently divisive in nature, and so is legistlation that limits freedoms 'for the greater good'.

 

the point i'm trying to make here is that "giving up" things isnt the correct mindset, it should be evolving forwards towards a more sensible solution than we have now. if anything.. E-bikes are an evolution. people who wouldnt cycle to work 'because it's uphill both ways' (lol..) do that now, because the E-bike takes most of the headwind load. we didnt have to "give up" cars for this, it's just a new option from evolution of the transport problem.

 

forwards, not backwards. that's my point, if we have better alternatives to the bad ones, we dont need the bad ones. that's why IMO the "impossible burger" hasnt taken off, but faux leather has: people dont want a "replacement for", but if that alternative has advantages "for us", it suddenly becomes interesting.

[suicidalfranco]

nah I'm not and I don't care, might be an unpopular opinion, but don't care about that either 

[Lairlair]

40 minutes ago, manikyath said:

that is a problem caused by a consumption mindset, not *because* it is affordable.

Oh definitely, the two work hand in hand

 

52 minutes ago, manikyath said:

legistlation that relies on opinion

What do you mean by that? Legislation can be made by relying on facts or democratic debates, no?
 

45 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

nah I'm not and I don't care

What makes you say that?

[suicidalfranco]

3 minutes ago, Lairlair said:

What makes you say that?

that I do nothing, nor do I want to change my habits, nor do I make purchase decision based on "what is the environmental impact of this thing"

[Lairlair]

6 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

that I do nothing, nor do I want to change my habits, nor do I make purchase decision based on "what is the environmental impact of this thing"

Is there a reason for that?

[Tan3l6]

I recycle all trash/garbage as good as I am able. Because why not?

[suicidalfranco]

1 minute ago, Lairlair said:

Is there a reason for that?

no, no reasons

[TetraSky]

Eco friendly?
Like 98% of the power generated in my province is made through hydro power. When we say our electric cars are "cleaner", we mean it and we're not just offsetting it elsewhere like some places with fossil fuel power plants.

As for me, I try to recycle everything that's recyclable, but I don't go out of my way to only pick items with specific packaging.
But then you find out that most of it is actually not recyclable in many places and suddenly it makes you wonder why even claim it's recyclable.

[Noble3212]

6 hours ago, Lairlair said:

In the last few years I've increasingly looked into the ins and outs of the ecological crisis. And it probably doesn't come as a surprise but the tech industry isn't the cleanest. To mention a few things: all the minerals needed require a lot of mining on different continents, which needs a lot of transport, which needs a lot of packaging, and needs a lot energy. So lots of pollution, waste, and CO₂ emissions. Plus the energy costs of using these devices which likely become obsolete and are dumped in a landfill. Not to mention the poor conditions many workers have to endure to produce all that. I know there's worse and I'm not here to guilt trip you. If anything I'm just as guilty as you with my Ryzen 9 5900x. I guess I want to share these thoughts feeling trapped between the excitement for technical progress, and thinking it's all useless crap created by companies to fill a need they also created, just so they can maximize their profits. On the other hand, I really like video games and I think they have an intrinsic value as entertainment, cultural piece or art, and all that is enabled by accessible and innovative tech. But when I see the awful floods in Pakistan, or the terrible droughts and heatwaves we've had here in Europe, I can't help but wonder: is it all worth it? Do we really need raytracing or is it time to stop here and now before we are forced to?

Thoughts? What are you doing as an attempt to be eco friendly?

Nothing. Realistically we ourself can't do a whole lot to help with the COs emission's. Big companies have to change before we would have to. 3 people out a 100,000 trying to slow emissions isn't going to help a whole lot

[Lairlair]

24 minutes ago, Noble3212 said:

3 people out a 100,000 trying to slow emissions isn't going to help a whole lot

Said 99,997 people pointing fingers at each other

[Noble3212]

2 minutes ago, Lairlair said:

Said 99,997 people pointing fingers at each other

Let me enjoy my polluted air in peace 

[Giganthrax]

Eco-friendliness isnt a major concern for me, as nothing any individual can do will be able to offset the massive pollution created by developing countries.

 

That being said, I try not to be unnecessarily wasteful when possible. I eat 99% of the food I buy, I prioritize products that come in eco-friendly packaging, I purposefully buy items that are going to last (especially electronics) and like to find new uses for old items rather than throwing them away, I use glass and metal containers, straws, and bottles instead of plastic, and so on.

[freeagent]

A little. We recycle, don't run the heating and cooling when it doesn't have to, we use LED lights, etc. Because I hate high power bills, I have dialed back overclocks. I put my 5900X on the shelf in favor for 5800X3D. Can't really oc it, so it runs cool and quiet and literally sips power. We try to be as responsible as we can.

[Just that Mario]

No. Like, I don't waste goods, but I am not some tree hugging hippie. This entire eco topic is complete forced bs for your every day regular foe.