[Political] Documentaries

[Wictorian]

I really like documentaries about nature and cultural ones but recently I have been watching some and they feel like propoganda.. Do you think it is worth to watch such documentaries at all? It is hard to find different documentaries than these. I have watched one about fast food and it was eye opening.

[12345678]

everything is biased

 

I stopped watching documentaries a long time ago because it's like a freaking hour over few bullshits 

[IPD]

There's definitely some documentaries that are better than others.  And the more documentaries you watch, the easier of a time you will have deciphering when/where they are trying to manipulate.  In that regard, they're like TED talks.

 

"Inconvenient Truth" and "What The Health" are easy examples of hyperbolic, blatantly misleading documentaries.  Virtually everything from Michael Moore also falls into this category.

 

Then you have some of the middle-of-the-road types that are worth a watch.  "WalMart: The High Cost of Low Prices", "Food Inc", "Bigger, Stronger, Faster", and "Supersize Me" fall into this category.

 

Then there are masterfully directed documentary miniseries.  Ken Burns' "The Civil War", "Baseball", "Prohibition", and "The West" (among many others), fall into this category.  There are also single-piece documentaries that I would place here such as "Radio Bikini" and "The Engines that came in from the Cold".

 

Last but not least are the documentaries that aren't trying to brainwash/persuade, but will open your eyes to things you may not be aware of.  "The Red Pill", "What Killed Michael Brown", "Uncle Tom", and "No Safe Spaces" I consider to be in this last category.

 

p.s.

I feel it is always worthwhile to delve into "documentaries" or arguments from the other side.  It is important to be familiar with the talking point/issues in order to prevent oneself from creating straw-man arguments.  I personally challenge myself to have opinions on everything--I see it as a mental exercise to pour over the data and divine the logical position based on all available facts.

[Wictorian]

On 9/12/2022 at 4:37 PM, IPD said:

There's definitely some documentaries that are better than others.  And the more documentaries you watch, the easier of a time you will have deciphering when/where they are trying to manipulate.  In that regard, they're like TED talks.

 

"Inconvenient Truth" and "What The Health" are easy examples of hyperbolic, blatantly misleading documentaries.  Virtually everything from Michael Moore also falls into this category.

 

Then you have some of the middle-of-the-road types that are worth a watch.  "WalMart: The High Cost of Low Prices", "Food Inc", "Bigger, Stronger, Faster", and "Supersize Me" fall into this category.

 

Then there are masterfully directed documentary miniseries.  Ken Burns' "The Civil War", "Baseball", "Prohibition", and "The West" (among many others), fall into this category.  There are also single-piece documentaries that I would place here such as "Radio Bikini" and "The Engines that came in from the Cold".

 

Last but not least are the documentaries that aren't trying to brainwash/persuade, but will open your eyes to things you may not be aware of.  "The Red Pill", "What Killed Michael Brown", "Uncle Tom", and "No Safe Spaces" I consider to be in this last category.

 

p.s.

I feel it is always worthwhile to delve into "documentaries" or arguments from the other side.  It is important to be familiar with the talking point/issues in order to prevent oneself from creating straw-man arguments.  I personally challenge myself to have opinions on everything--I see it as a mental exercise to pour over the data and divine the logical position based on all available facts.

My english teacher told us to just have opininons. I don’t think this is healthy. One Greek philoshoper argued only ones that thought through about it should vote. I think he is right.

[IPD]

Yes.  And arriving at the truth is difficult to impossible without dialogue.  Free and open dialogue.

[ThousandBlade]

Just try to watch propaganda from both sides and make up ur mind based on which side made propaganda more fun to watch.

 

You'd probably end up being more unbiased and open minded than 95% of people out there.

[John877]

If it cant be proven, verified by at least 2-3 other people or sources its generally just opinion.  The newspapers and TV news used to have rules about verification that if it cant be verified by like 3 sources its unfit to print or something along that line. Of course now that is shot out the window by a cannon and long forgotten.

 

I would just say take from them what can be actually proven.

 

As for news my opinion is that they should not be injecting opinion and only reporting facts. You shouldnt be able to tell what network or newspaper an article or story is coming from cause they wouldnt be trying to spin anything.

[LAwLz]

On 9/10/2022 at 4:31 PM, Wictorian said:

I really like documentaries about nature and cultural ones but recently I have been watching some and they feel like propoganda.. Do you think it is worth to watch such documentaries at all? It is hard to find different documentaries than these. I have watched one about fast food and it was eye opening.

I think documentaries can be interesting and/or fun to watch. It's just that not all of them are good. Same as with movies, games or any media.

Just don't take things in them as gospel. Sometimes the creator gets things wrong, sometimes they are biased and deliberately misleading, sometimes they get outdated, etc, etc. 

 

You saying that a documentary was "eye opening" sets of alarm bells to me, because it suggests that you saw a documentary and let it form really strong opinions in you. Don't let a single source form your opinions on things. A documentary is often a good starting point because it condenses a lot of information and present it in a good way, but keep in mind that it is just a starting point. If you are actually engaged in the subject and feel like the documentary changed your perception of things, then you should confirm those findings by looking up other sources as well. Preferably you should look up sources that both agree and disagree with the stance of the documentary. Usually the truth is somewhere some shade of gray, not black or white.

 

This goes for all information by the way, not just documentaries. Don't religiously believe X is fantastic, or Y is horrible, just because you saw a documentary about it, or a Youtube video, or read it on some website or whatever. Double check and hear both sides.

[captain_to_fire]

DW Documentary channel on YouTube is a good place to start. But as everyone pointed out take everything with a grain of salt and do your own research and by research meaning you eliminate your own biases and be open to the fact that your might be wrong.

 

 

 

[Wictorian]

16 hours ago, LAwLz said:

I think documentaries can be interesting and/or fun to watch. It's just that not all of them are good. Same as with movies, games or any media.

Just don't take things in them as gospel. Sometimes the creator gets things wrong, sometimes they are biased and deliberately misleading, sometimes they get outdated, etc, etc. 

 

You saying that a documentary was "eye opening" sets of alarm bells to me, because it suggests that you saw a documentary and let it form really strong opinions in you. Don't let a single source form your opinions on things. A documentary is often a good starting point because it condenses a lot of information and present it in a good way, but keep in mind that it is just a starting point. If you are actually engaged in the subject and feel like the documentary changed your perception of things, then you should confirm those findings by looking up other sources as well. Preferably you should look up sources that both agree and disagree with the stance of the documentary. Usually the truth is somewhere some shade of gray, not black or white.

 

This goes for all information by the way, not just documentaries. Don't religiously believe X is fantastic, or Y is horrible, just because you saw a documentary about it, or a Youtube video, or read it on some website or whatever. Double check and hear both sides.

The thing that was eye opening was, fast food in India contained a lor more fat and sugar than France. I think regulation is extremely important.

[IPD]

I wouldn't necessarily trust YouTube to have a properly diverse array of documentaries--given their draconian policies about content.  But you can get several good things covered there.

[thrasher_565]

i found one were a guy gos and stays at w/e there doing a document about like he when to i think indea and worked with the boys the burn wire to get copper to sell for moeny to "live" thow they die at like age 40... also showed them people that sell parts and make more moeny and dont die...

 

there also a guy that did real intervews for news but he lost his channel thow he had a fallowing so make a new one quick. got in a spot were a company pays you but takes most if not all the proffets kinda deal... the old channel was all gas no brakes for get the guys name but when the blm thing was going on he would be in the looter building asking why you doing then instead of the "news" taking photos" and making something up on why there doing it...

 

i beleave you still need 3 so called story's in Canada but i mean not really hard to even fake it really...

[mr moose]

There is just no way to tell which documentaries are wrong unless you go to a library and research the topic yourself.  And by research I literally mean reading everything you can find on it and making notes.  Because the one thing the internet really can't do is re write physical books in libraries.

 

Also political documentaries are the worst.  There is no way in hell that any human could honestly prevent their own biases from coming through.  And as such I will never watch a single one, hell I won't even read a biography of a politician.

[Wictorian]

On 9/18/2022 at 3:17 PM, mr moose said:

There is just no way to tell which documentaries are wrong unless you go to a library and research the topic yourself.  And by research I literally mean reading everything you can find on it and making notes.  Because the one thing the internet really can't do is re write physical books in libraries.

 

Also political documentaries are the worst.  There is no way in hell that any human could honestly prevent their own biases from coming through.  And as such I will never watch a single one, hell I won't even read a biography of a politician.

Benjamin Franklin?

[mr moose]

27 minutes ago, Wictorian said:

Benjamin Franklin?

what about him? 

[Wictorian]

2 hours ago, mr moose said:

what about him? 

What about his biography?

[mr moose]

18 hours ago, Wictorian said:

What about his biography?

I haven't read it, I feel no desire to either.  Like all other biographies of political characters, I simply do not trust the information to be accurate.  If people cant be honest about thomas edison and henry ford then they certainly can't be honest about political figures.

[Beerzerker]

On 9/21/2022 at 5:16 AM, mr moose said:

 

Like I said, go to the library and educate yourself, if you read enough and spend any amount of time thinking critically about it you will find out what is BS and what isn't.  In fact you will discover that 99% of documentaries and bio's have at least a hand full of bent truths and urban myths embedded in them.

I wholeheartedly agree,  we are literally placing red herrings in the ground to throw off future archeologists.   All this BS people make up to further their own ideals rather than spend time working out if their ideals are even beneficial let alone valid is causing a whole lot of ignorance to shape the world in a dangerous way.

 

 

 

 

The same basic effect of one day in the distant future some archeologists are digging and discover a statue of a deity we supposedly worshipped according to their research, namely one of those plastic/whatever figurines of Ronald McDonald that used to sit out in front of the restaurant and it survived somehow.
Imagine all the speculation over it.

We scrub history, that's probrably what's going to happen and the sad part is there are some that actually wants it to be instead of preserving the truth.

Forget the past, you're damned well gonna repeat in some form or fashion later because lessons learned are not to be forgotten. 
There is nothing gained by whitewashing and forgetting it.

And if that's the point, why even worry about setting an example at all, at anytime for any reason just to forget it too?
Simple - It's just a waste of time, effort and all else, nothing more, nothing less.

[Jtalk4456]

I don't watch documentaries very often so I won't speak to the specifics here, but I did wanna clarify the words here. 

Propaganda is 'ideas, facts, or allegations spread deliberately to further one's cause or to damage an opposing cause' according to merriam webster

So propaganda is just an intentional spread of ideas and info. It's literally just the act of persuasion by spreading info and ideas.

On it's own the act of persuasion is not bad. Any documentary worth it's salt IS trying to persuade you of it's point. The reason propaganda is often considered bad is it is used with BAD information often for political means. All gaslighting is persuasion, but not all persuasion is gaslighting and persuasion is important for lots of good things. As with any information, you need to watch a documentary with a critical mind and basic common sense. If something seems so mindblowing you can't believe the claim, do some reasearch. Be critical of WHO is making the documentary and whether there is any conflict of interest. I might give less trust to a documentary about the health benefits of cheese if made by the Dairy Farmers Association. Don't discount a documentary because it is persuading you, but also don't let your self be persuaded JUST because it's a documentary

[Wictorian]

12 hours ago, Jtalk4456 said:

I don't watch documentaries very often so I won't speak to the specifics here, but I did wanna clarify the words here. 

Propaganda is 'ideas, facts, or allegations spread deliberately to further one's cause or to damage an opposing cause' according to merriam webster

So propaganda is just an intentional spread of ideas and info. It's literally just the act of persuasion by spreading info and ideas.

On it's own the act of persuasion is not bad. Any documentary worth it's salt IS trying to persuade you of it's point. The reason propaganda is often considered bad is it is used with BAD information often for political means. All gaslighting is persuasion, but not all persuasion is gaslighting and persuasion is important for lots of good things. As with any information, you need to watch a documentary with a critical mind and basic common sense. If something seems so mindblowing you can't believe the claim, do some reasearch. Be critical of WHO is making the documentary and whether there is any conflict of interest. I might give less trust to a documentary about the health benefits of cheese if made by the Dairy Farmers Association. Don't discount a documentary because it is persuading you, but also don't let your self be persuaded JUST because it's a documentary

For instance I watched one about fast food. It said fast food in India is much less healthier then in France. Simply because of regulation in France. I think you can easily verify this.

[LAwLz]

2 hours ago, Wictorian said:

For instance I watched one about fast food. It said fast food in India is much less healthier then in France. Simply because of regulation in France. I think you can easily verify this.

I think a good documentary would give you examples of the regulations as well as providing you with the information necessary to verify it yourself. 

Just saying "fast-food in India is worse than in French because of regulations" is vague and potentially quite hard to verify. 

[dalekphalm]

3 hours ago, LAwLz said:

I think a good documentary would give you examples of the regulations as well as providing you with the information necessary to verify it yourself. 

Just saying "fast-food in India is worse than in French because of regulations" is vague and potentially quite hard to verify. 

That's a good point. Every country has tons of regulations - hundreds, if not thousands - when dealing with food. So sorting through which regulations the documentary might be referring to, if they're not being specific, could be like looking for one specific needle in a pile of needles.

 

A good documentary will present that information, and often comes with supplementary materials with links to sources, etc. A bad documentary will make mention of sources, but in a vague and non-specific way, such that you the viewer might not even be sure which source or which law/regulation/etc they're even talking about.

[Wictorian]

5 hours ago, LAwLz said:

I think a good documentary would give you examples of the regulations as well as providing you with the information necessary to verify it yourself. 

Just saying "fast-food in India is worse than in French because of regulations" is vague and potentially quite hard to verify. 

Yeah actually it talks about that but I summarized it.

[thrasher_565]

On 9/19/2022 at 5:47 AM, Wictorian said:

Not reading this

 

[Wictorian]

Omg I can’t imagine what political and religious debates look like.

 

And these wall of texts are still too hot to ignore..