Are electric cars more common in Canada?

[AbydosOne]

I initially figured all of Alex's EV ShortCircuits were just because "LTT does tech" and "EVs are tech" (aside: I really enjoy Alex talking about cars and would watch a channel about it *hinthint*). But I've spent the last couple days outside Montreal and I've seen more EVs than I really ever see in the US (and I live in Chicago, so not a small town), to the point where the field office I'm based out of has an EV charger on the wall, while the HQ building I normally work at in the US doesn't have any.

 

So that got me thinking: Are EVs more common in Canada? Are there greater incentives to buy one? Is it because electricity is cheaper in Canada? (the guy I'm with mentioned Quebec produces a lot of electricity.) Or do I just not have a big enough sample set?

[An0maly_76]

As cold as it gets there in the winter, I'm not sure I would want an electric car unless battery technology today has overcome the tendency to discharge more quickly in cold weather.

[dizmo]

Small sample set. Canada is only ever so slightly behind the US, and really, in terms of number, the US has far, far more EVs than Canada (0.73% for Canada vs 0.7% for the US).

[BiotechBen]

I see electric cars all over the megalopolis northeast corridor, mainly Tesla's, but I recently encountered a polestar 1, a rivian r1t, and an xc 40 recharge. I mostly see Mach1 and model 3 EVs around here.

[Zando_]

Sample set definitely. I don't see EVs all the time, but I do see them regularly, and I'm in TN which is not a state that springs to mind when thinking of people who drive EVs. They're even more common up in Nashville/Franklin but that's not surprising.

[emosun]

23 minutes ago, AbydosOne said:

I initially figured all of Alex's EV ShortCircuits were just because "LTT does tech" and "EVs are tech"

I think they cover ev's because they make more money than most people and rich people tend to buy ev's vs something practical. I always skip the ev reviews because it's like watching some guy talk about his yacht. Basically has zero to do with me plus theres no chance of ever owning one so what does it matter.?

[BobVonBob]

Worth noting that electric cars are still on the high end of the car market right now, which means that the people with jobs that allow owning an electric car are probably in higher paying white-collar jobs that don't involve much driving, if any with many still working remote. Electric cars are probably underrepresented in miles driven vs total ownership, which would also contribute to seeing less of them.

[sebbby98]

BC leads North America in terms of electric vehicle adoption rate. As of the most recent numbers, Q1, 17% of all light vehicle sales are zero emissions. Definitely didn't see as many when I was in Alberta in May but Model 3s in Vancouver seem to be as common as Toyota Corollas.

 

Source

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

2 hours ago, sebbby98 said:

but Model 3s in Vancouver seem to be as common as Toyota Corollas.

I can attest to that. And despite all the driver aids, most are still blind af while on the road. 

 

And it really depends on region. We have a lot of... wealthy people from overseas. A few years prior you'd see Mercedes C Classes, Audi A4s, and BMW 3 Series as much as Corollas. Now many of those people are driving Teslas and could care less about being green. It's more the current "prestige" of owning a Tesla. So yes, BC is leading the way of electrification. But it's not the locals who are leading the charge if you know what I mean (cause we can't afford it... can't even afford housing let alone a 50+k luxury car).

[Blue4130]

I am guessing that in Saskatchewan and Manitoba you won't find too many. Too cold and the distances between towns is too great.

[wanderingfool2]

5 hours ago, AbydosOne said:

So that got me thinking: Are EVs more common in Canada? Are there greater incentives to buy one? Is it because electricity is cheaper in Canada? (the guy I'm with mentioned Quebec produces a lot of electricity.) Or do I just not have a big enough sample set?

There isn't a day that goes by that I don't see at least one Tesla.

 

BC specifically has the highest EV adoption rate per capita I believe in North America (might be different, but the numbers were from 2019 I think).

 

At least in BC, which is where LMG is located we also have relatively cheap electricity (hydro power) and higher than average gas prices (to the point some people near the border even cross the border just to buy gas)...so EV's can make more sense.  Plus a more tepid winter, and most places are within easy range of EV's.  So we are quite suited for being king of EV's.

[Aprime]

5 hours ago, AbydosOne said:

I initially figured all of Alex's EV ShortCircuits were just because "LTT does tech" and "EVs are tech" (aside: I really enjoy Alex talking about cars and would watch a channel about it *hinthint*). But I've spent the last couple days outside Montreal and I've seen more EVs than I really ever see in the US (and I live in Chicago, so not a small town), to the point where the field office I'm based out of has an EV charger on the wall, while the HQ building I normally work at in the US doesn't have any.

 

So that got me thinking: Are EVs more common in Canada? Are there greater incentives to buy one? Is it because electricity is cheaper in Canada? (the guy I'm with mentioned Quebec produces a lot of electricity.) Or do I just not have a big enough sample set?

BC and Quebec have elevated EV market penetration. I believe BC leads the country. We're still talking just a tenth of sales, but you know.

Both aforementioned provinces have decent rebate regimes and perks like HOV access in BC's case.

[YellowJersey]

I'm in Calgary and see a surprising number of Teslas on the road. I take transit, so I'm often waiting for a bus, and I see probably 5-10 teslas a day.

[the_gremlinn]

I live in California and we are one of the leading states in terms of ev adoption, at around 14% of new car sales. But in socal where a majority of ev sales in the state are located. I for sure think Tesla specifically is the most represented luxury vehicle. I think I see more of them than other luxury brands like Audi BMW  Mercedes’ Lexus etc…

[Roswell]

On 7/1/2022 at 9:13 PM, emosun said:

I think they cover ev's because they make more money than most people and rich people tend to buy ev's vs something practical. I always skip the ev reviews because it's like watching some guy talk about his yacht. Basically has zero to do with me plus theres no chance of ever owning one so what does it matter.?

What?

 

Non luxury EVs with full federal credits are on par with gas models, usually less. Not to mention that they have like 1/4 or less cost per mile and virtually no maintenance needed. 

[Montana One-Six]

10 minutes ago, Roswell said:

Non luxury EVs with full federal credits are on par with gas models

Only true if you buy new and buying new vehicles isn't exactly a good financial decision.

 

13 minutes ago, Roswell said:

Not to mention that they have like 1/4 or less cost per mile and virtually no maintenance needed. 

Until you have to replace the battery.

[Roswell]

14 minutes ago, Montana One-Six said:

Only true if you buy new and buying new vehicles isn't exactly a good financial decision.

This is super incorrect. Buying new with 10 year/100k mile warranties is far, far less expensive than paying out of pocket after whatever dinky warranty you do get to keep a used car afloat for the same amount of time. 
 

Buying used makes sense if you don’t have the income to purchase new. That doesn’t make it more financially sound compared to buying new though.

 

22 minutes ago, Montana One-Six said:

Until you have to replace the battery.

By the time the battery needs to be replaced in a low range EV (assuming you’re super conservative at 100k miles) you’ve already saved $25,000 in gas costs. Closer to $40,000 if current gas prices keep up. 

 

By the time a long range model needs replacement (300k miles or more), you’ve saved well beyond the cost of a new car. You’d be over $120,000 in savings at current gas prices.

[Montana One-Six]

2 hours ago, Roswell said:

Buying used makes sense if you don’t have the income to purchase new. That doesn’t make it more financially sound compared to buying new though.

So we are just ignoring that a new car loses 20% of its value after purchase?

If I buy a new car for 50k it loses 10k in value as soon as you drive off the dealers parking lot. An additional ~5k on top of that after one year. Meaning your car lost ~15k in value in one year, you will never get back. Plus you pay higher insurance rates.

Let's say I buy the same model car but it is 2,5 - 3 years old which means I only pay ~25k and after one year it only loses ~5k. Meaning I got the same car for cheaper and it has a higher resale value compared to the initial investment. Plus you pay lower insurance rates.

So where exactly does buying new make sense from a financial perspective? Sure you get a warranty but honestly these type of warranties are only there to make buying new more attractive and realistically you most likely will never need those.

 

2 hours ago, Roswell said:

By the time a long range model needs replacement (300k miles or more), you’ve saved well beyond the cost of a new car. You’d be over $120,000 in savings at current gas prices.

Which is under ideal conditions?

My brother in law works at a huge Mercedes-Benz Car Shop in Germany and even Mercedes-Benz replaces it's own EVs batteries after about 100k - 150k km (which is ~ 60k - 90k miles) because malfunctions and battery related issues become more likely the "older" they are.

 

[TetraSky]

Many busses in my city are EV now (and the metro(subway) has been electric for decades, too).
But there's still not many recharge stations for everyone to have an EV vehicle and not many have a dedicated parking space with a garage where they can hook up their own line. Can't have a bunch of charging cable going from your house, onto the sidewalk and to your car either as that would prevent those with reduced mobility from going out. So I certainly hope they will add more recharge stations. At the very least have like 1 beside every tree or something.

That said, we do have a time limit for new gas guzzling vehicles to be sold by 2035, so I expect in the next 10 years for a lot things to change and see a lot more EVs. Even more so if gas prices stay as it is right now.

[Roswell]

2 hours ago, Montana One-Six said:

So we are just ignoring that a new car loses 20% of its value after purchase?

It doesn't. Never, even in the worst of times have cars lost 20% off the lot. Where in the world did you hear that? Not to mention that right now in the current market, they lose almost nothing. Some gain value.

 

Before 2020, cars would typically lose at most 10% off the lot. After a year, MAYBE 20%. Again, these days it's nowhere remotely close to that.

 

2 hours ago, Montana One-Six said:

your car lost ~15k in value in one year

No car, even pre covid, loses 30% in a year unless you're talking about garbage manufacturers like Maserati or Mitsubishi.

 

2 hours ago, Montana One-Six said:

So where exactly does buying new make more sense from a financial perspective.

 

I suppose we can use your own numbers. The following was after glancing over cars.com for reference.

 

I buy a $50,000 2022 Audi A5.

You buy a $26,000 2016 Audi A5 (this is how much they go for now).

 

I spend nothing outside of basic maintenance over 10 years because I have a service contract with the dealer. You spend... conservatively... $15,000 over 10 years outside of basic maintenance since your warranty only has a few years left (you wanted to cherry pick luxury car costs, they're notoriously expensive to repair).

 

Flash forward 10 years...

 

My car is selling for $14,000. Cost of ownership for me = $36,000

Your car is selling for $4,000. Cost of ownership for you = $37,000

 

Even if you got lucky and only spent $10k on repairs, you still only saved $4,000 over buying new. Difference is that you had to drive around a 16 year old car towards the end and I had the luxury of something 6 years newer. 

 

2 hours ago, Montana One-Six said:

Sure you get a warranty but honestly these type of warranties are only there to make buying new more attractive and realistically you most likely will never need those.

 

Sounds like you've never owned a car before if you honestly think people don't experience significant issues with cars over the course of 10 years...

 

https://caredge.com/ranks/maintenance/luxury/10-year/worst#models

 

And that's 10 years from NEW. You'd be paying much more with a used model over the same length of time.

 

2 hours ago, Montana One-Six said:

My brother in law works at a huge Mercedes-Benz Car Shop in Germany and even Mercedes-Benz replaces it's own EVs batteries after about 100k - 150k km (which is ~ 60k - 90k miles) because malfunctions and battery related issues become more likely the "older" they are.

 

Mercedes literally just started selling long range EVs this year so I doubt your BIL is replacing batteries for them yet. I assume you're referring to low range EVs, in which case I already said 100k is the conservative standard.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Montana One-Six]

On 7/3/2022 at 5:17 PM, Roswell said:

It doesn't. Never, even in the worst of times have cars lost 20% off the lot. Where in the world did you hear that? Not to mention that right now in the current market, they lose almost nothing. Some gain value.

 

Before 2020, cars would typically lose at most 10% off the lot. After a year, MAYBE 20%. Again, these days it's nowhere remotely close to that.

 

It depends on model and brand sure. Maybe my numbers are a bit off but I just looked through some online used car markets for cars that are 3-4 years old and those typically go for half to 2/3s of what they would cost new.

 

On 7/3/2022 at 5:17 PM, Roswell said:

I suppose we can use your own numbers. The following was after glancing over cars.com for reference.

 

I buy a $50,000 2022 Audi A5.

You buy a $26,000 2016 Audi A5 (this is how much they go for now).

 

I spend nothing outside of basic maintenance over 10 years because I have a service contract with the dealer. You spend... conservatively... $15,000 over 10 years outside of basic maintenance since your warranty only has a few years left (you wanted to cherry pick luxury car costs, they're notoriously expensive to repair).

 

Flash forward 10 years...

 

My car is selling for $14,000. Cost of ownership for me = $36,000

Your car is selling for $4,000. Cost of ownership for you = $37,000

 

Even if you got lucky and only spent $10k on repairs, you still only saved $4,000 over buying new. Difference is that you had to drive around a 16 year old car towards the end and I had the luxury of something 6 years newer. 

 

Been driving for a bit over 10 years now and had 3 different cars which means I keep cars for about 3-4 years. All of them were used and on two of them I had to do some repairs which I did myself. The repair cost for that weren't even remotely close to 10k let alone 15k.

 

On 7/3/2022 at 5:17 PM, Roswell said:

Mercedes literally just started selling long range EVs this year so I doubt your BIL is replacing batteries for them yet. I assume you're referring to low range EVs, in which case I already said 100k is the conservative standard.

I don't know on what exact model they are changing batteries. Also the driven range doesn't really matter according to him it's the amount of charging cycles. These are monitored by the computer on board and once a certain amount is reached it displays the need for a battery replacement which typically happens at 100k - 150k km.

[wanderingfool2]

On 7/3/2022 at 4:33 AM, Montana One-Six said:

Only true if you buy new and buying new vehicles isn't exactly a good financial decision.

Some EV's are in different kind of categories though in terms of price drop.  e.g. Buying an used leaf wouldn't necessarily make sense, and the depreciation on it is crazy.

 

Tesla's are popular for a reason as well.  There has now been multiple people I know that have ordered a Tesla, flipped their 3-4 year old Tesla when their new Tesla arrived and made back all the money they spent buying the new one (because the resale value of Tesla's are that crazy at the moment).

 

Tesla's battery packs are also really well managed; after 100k miles you only lose about 10% battery life.

 

On 7/3/2022 at 6:02 AM, Montana One-Six said:

My brother in law works at a huge Mercedes-Benz Car Shop in Germany and even Mercedes-Benz replaces it's own EVs batteries after about 100k - 150k km (which is ~ 60k - 90k miles) because malfunctions and battery related issues become more likely the "older" they are.

Look at Tesla's warranty.  100k miles, 8 years for the battery.  So that 60-90k miles doesn't hold true.

 

On 7/3/2022 at 4:33 AM, Montana One-Six said:

Until you have to replace the battery.

Let's put things into perspective, yes you need to replace the battery...yes it will cost a lot...but gas vehicles have major maintenance costs as well when they are driven for a long time.  e.g. I could say the price of cars cheap until you have to have your engine redone

 

e.g. Lets say 80k miles.

Oil changes ever 5k miles - Even at $20 for an oil change that's $320.

Brake pad change - Add another $200, maybe $400 if replacing twice

Gas (BC pricing) - 9453.278 Litres (Camry average efficiency non-hybrid) - $1.50 avg per litre.  ~$14k CAD

 

EV - Tesla Model 3

Charging cost - 3 miles / kWh (this is assuming a 75kWh and 225 miles), total ~26.7k kWh, BC $0.15/kWh = $4k CAD

A few grand in replacement tires

 

Keep in mind that at 80k miles, a Tesla has an average of maybe 10% reduced range...but wouldn't need a battery replacement. (There are other things involved too, but there was a company who drove a Tesla for a million miles and worked out the cost of ownership was drastically less than equivalent vehicles).

 

From what I've seen overall if you were buying new vs new, overall EV's work out to be roughly the same price of ownership as a new gas vehicle.  In cases in BC where gas is high, and electricity is cheap then EV's win out in terms of cost of ownership.

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

On 7/4/2022 at 9:14 AM, wanderingfool2 said:

From what I've seen overall if you were buying new vs new, overall EV's work out to be roughly the same price of ownership as a new gas vehicle.  In cases in BC where gas is high, and electricity is cheap then EV's win out in terms of cost of ownership.

Yea people really need to start putting asterisks that the savings from going EV is assuming you don't own a car and are in the market for one. If you currently have a car that's decently fuel efficient, you're almost always just better off sticking with it until it finally kicks the bucket, then go EV. Replacing your still working vehicle with an EV isn't going to save you money. 

 

That's what pisses me off about those ads from car dealerships you see lately about going electric because of the gas prices. You'll be loosing even more money in the short to medium term. What a logical thing to do, fuel is up $2.30/L, better spend 45k on a new electric vehicle because fuel is too expensive. 

[ForumTryhard]

Go to a more popular / hip city somewhere like miami, la, or san diego, and they are literally everywhere.

[RasmusDC]

first of all i HATE my Model 3 LR, but with that out of the way, IF you can live with the reduced range, cold weather and Electrical cars seems to be a way better solution, that petrol or diesel.

 

Less lubrication that needs to flow to keep an "engine" well... and just a simpler mechanical solution..

 

I´ve seen plenty LOVE their electical cars, in sub -20 degree celcius.. and even though i hate my car, it is not that bad, it is in an outlet at home, and if it preheats, -10 degrees gives me a change of consumption for my work trip from 121wh/km on average to 140wh/km on average, and that is also with a shift from summer to winter tires..

 

so YEAH i loose range, but it really is not that bad, it was in the older cars.