"I want to ban Maths" - EU wants Big Tech to Break Encryption and scan private messages

[Taf the Ghost]

The EU's privacy protection approach has almost always been simply about the fact they don't have access to Facebook and Google data. Both of which either work in coordination with or basically are extensions of US National Security. So as much at the GDPR is a good thing, this was always something they were going to do. And if you think this'll ever be used to "save the children!", you're ignorant of any sort of Political Rhetoric.  (Side point: perverts are extremely important "marks" for intelligence services. There's a long history of using the blackmail to achieve objectives.)

[AlTech]

10 hours ago, Sauron said:

I don't think this is going to solve the problem so hopefully it remains just a proposal.

The European commission have tried to push this a few times in one form or another. I doubt this is the last we'll see of it. Last time they tried to use the excuse that it would stop terrorists.

[SansVarnic]

-= Topic cleaned =-

 

Why need I remind you all how not to derail a topic?

[Montana One-Six]

6 hours ago, Ydfhlx said:

Same in the US btw, go read CIA controversies page on Wikipedia.

Yeah since the GWOT started they have pretty much access to everything.

 

A distant friend of mine has a wife from Belgium. When she still was his girlfriend she traveled to the US a lot. One day (a few days after the 2015 Paris Attacks) when she exited the plane at LAX she was greeted by homeland security and they took her to an interrogation room for 3 or 4 hours asking her all sorts of questions. According to her they knew all the answers already and just wanted to confirm or whatever. They had her boyfriends name, address and some other stuff from somewhere. She said they even knew stuff that basically only she and her boyfriend knew. Since they communicated pretty much only via iMessage it's up to you to figure out how they knew all this... .

[hishnash]

This law is exactly why apple have been developing the on device scanning that scanns on the users device just before they upload and as part of that through some magic of crypto if you have over a given number of these hash intersections that provides enough info to result in your cryptographic key being exposed so they can then decrypt the original message. 

This is a LOT more work than just scanning server side but given these laws are coming from many places makes a lot of sense to do it this way.  In the end doing it on the users device just before a message is sent to your servers is much better than not having end to end encryption since at least this way they cant change what they are searching for after you have sent your message.

 

[PriitM]

Why are governments so keen on breaking encryption, when they can do the ACTUAL job of delegating detective work to the professionals (police) and issuing warrants for per case. There is legislation, there is the system. Or is government trying to gaslight us into rejecting an obvious idiotic solution...so they can use some other form of public data gathering? 

 

 

 

[Kisai]

41 minutes ago, PriitM said:

Why are governments so keen on breaking encryption, when they can do the ACTUAL job of delegating detective work to the professionals (police) and issuing warrants for per case. There is legislation, there is the system. Or is government trying to gaslight us into rejecting an obvious idiotic solution...so they can use some other form of public data gathering? 

 

 

 

When you have backdoors, the bad guys will use them

When you have unbreakable encryption, the bad guys will use them

 

No such thing as unbreakable encryption if you have access to the fleshy person who knows the password or has the biometrics. It's this part that law enforcement and governments have a problem with. You can't just kidnap someone and their devices and then beat them until they give up the password, because as soon as you let them go, they're going to the media.

 

No, law enforcement would rather have a dragnet. Let's just look at everyone's data. You have nothing to hide right?

 

Realistically we should stop giving a care if a good person or a bad person is using encryption, using cryptocurrency, or bittorrent to distribute things p2p. We should care about "bad things" being produced and go after that, not the users. The "end users" are largely victims themselves. If you go after the production of "bad items/bad content", itself, that solves the primary problem that "breaking encryption" gets justified for.

 

I'm not proposing "stop making illegal drugs/weapons" here, we know that isn't going to happen, but what we can do is track people making money off of it, easily, without needing their electronic devices, and just catch them red handed. Sure having access to their data would make it easier, but where do you stop the slippery slope? Do you limit it only to those with criminal records? What about those who live with them? Or those who they interact with? Who they shop with? And so forth.

 

Service people who end up installing cable/etc for people that they don't know are criminals, can end up becoming victims as well. 

 

Though my POV on the matter is that the state has no reason to violate individuals (not corporations) privacy. But if RvW ends, that might get flipped on it's head and we might see further eroding of ones right to privacy, eg "electronics have no right of privacy" or "personal devices connected to the internet have no right to privacy" etc.

 

 

[jagdtigger]

16 hours ago, wanderingfool2 said:

which the only way I can reasonably think of is weakening the self incrimination portion regarding passwords/access

Just forget it, thats one nasty can of worms we'd like to keep shut at all costs.

[Montana One-Six]

16 hours ago, Kisai said:

You can't just kidnap someone and their devices and then beat them until they give up the password, because as soon as you let them go, they're going to the media.

That's why they usually die in an accident very shortly after.

[thechinchinsong]

The EU should just ask some US intelligence agencies for tips on mass surveillance. Use the Ukraine conflict as a cover for implementing something like what the US did for the war on terror.

[leadeater]

On 5/13/2022 at 1:05 AM, Senzelian said:

Shouldn't the postal office not also start opening letters then?

They do if suspected as suspicion from scans, detection dogs or just by appearance and sender/receiver details. As you know, it's rather easy to unseal a litter (or courier parcel) when required. Encrypted messages and data, yea not so much heh.

[CTR640]

Nah, this bullshit about childporn is just nothing but a lame ass excuse. They simply wants to scan your whole phone/tablet.

[BuckGup]

How do they know the person they are investigating is actually a person and not a bot? People could simply make bots to cloud the system and they are now exactly where they were before but having spent a lot of time and money. 

 

We seriously have the technology to have two AI bots generate illegal content between one another and pretend to be humans that most can't distinguish between. So this is some seriously old generational boomer type beat of cyber security. Oh well it won't work even if it goes through

[CTR640]

3 hours ago, BuckGup said:

How do they know the person they are investigating is actually a person and not a bot? People could simply make bots to cloud the system and they are now exactly where they were before but having spent a lot of time and money. 

 

We seriously have the technology to have two AI bots generate illegal content between one another and pretend to be humans that most can't distinguish between. So this is some seriously old generational boomer type beat of cyber security. Oh well it won't work even if it goes through

The po... (I don't wanna say that dirty P word) is full of old people so they know shit about technology. P and technology is a very very bad combination.

I'm afraid it will stay like that.