EU Parliament agrees on proposal to force Apple to use USB-C on all devices (including iPhones), only allows small devices like watches to go portless

[Neoxon]

1 minute ago, poochyena said:

no, no they aren't. There is a very easy and simple solution for them.

If you mean not selling their devices in the EU, even you said that it’s not a good idea. And others have mentioned why it isn’t a likely idea either.

[Senzelian]

Let's ignore Apple for a moment. Logitech will finally have to upgrade their G403 to USB C!

 

But honestly I don't think this will do anything for the environment immediately, but instead people will slowly get rid of their old cables and chargers, which then can be recycled. 

 

I think rn I have like 20 USB cables and 6 or 7 chargers. It'll be great if I'll only need like 2 or 3 cables and 2 chargers.

 

 

[poochyena]

19 minutes ago, Neoxon said:

If you mean not selling their devices in the EU, even you said that it’s not a good idea. And others have mentioned why it isn’t a likely idea either.

...so obviously I don't mean that. Can you not think of another very simple solution for apple to solve this issue?

[Neoxon]

24 minutes ago, poochyena said:

...so obviously I don't mean that. Can you not think of another very simple solution for apple to solve this issue?

Actually listen to the EU & move to USB-C.

[AndreiArgeanu]

47 minutes ago, Senzelian said:

Logitech will finally have to upgrade their G403 to USB C!

I find it extremely annoying that logitech with their gaming mice have just stuck with micro usb for so long, I don't even get why they continued to do this, even on the G Pro superlight which is supposed to be their top of the line 150$ wireless mouse. At least their consumer oriented mice that have a rechargeable batteries use USB C for the most part with the MX Ergo being the exception.

[linkboy]

12 minutes ago, AndreiArgeanu said:

I find it extremely annoying that logitech with their gaming mice have just stuck with micro usb for so long, I don't even get why they continued to do this, even on the G Pro superlight which is supposed to be their top of the line 150$ wireless mouse. At least their consumer oriented mice that have a rechargeable batteries use USB C for the most part with the MX Ergo being the exception.

 

I bought a MX Master 3 specifically because it has a USB-C port.

 

It'll be nice to see Apple using a standard port on iPhones.

 

I use a Samsung phone (S22 Ultra), but my wife has an iPhone and it's a massive pain to have to carry two physically different cables everywhere. 

[Derangel]

39 minutes ago, poochyena said:

...so obviously I don't mean that. Can you not think of another very simple solution for apple to solve this issue?

They could try to fight it with a lawsuit, but I’m not sure how effective that would be. This ruling won’t allow them to use dongles to get around it. They really can’t redesign the phones to make them too thin to have a port. They can’t go portless. There really aren’t that many options left that aren’t just going along with it.

[Neoxon]

38 minutes ago, Derangel said:

They could try to fight it with a lawsuit, but I’m not sure how effective that would be. This ruling won’t allow them to use dongles to get around it. They really can’t redesign the phones to make them too thin to have a port. They can’t go portless. There really aren’t that many options left that aren’t just going along with it.

Actually, part of me wouldn’t be surprised if Apple tries to go for a lawsuit. The fact that the EU is directly prohibiting Apple from ditching the port entirely won’t sit well with them, as a portless iPhone seems to be Apple’s endgame. But given that they were supposed to have made the transition to fully wireless by now according to rumors, they’ve clearly ran into some roadblocks on that front (be it resistance from the masses &/or technical issues with data transfer, probably both).

[darknessblade]

36 minutes ago, Derangel said:

They could try to fight it with a lawsuit, but I’m not sure how effective that would be. This ruling won’t allow them to use dongles to get around it. They really can’t redesign the phones to make them too thin to have a port. They can’t go portless. There really aren’t that many options left that aren’t just going along with it.

Well if they go the lawsuit route, the EU government can be even more petty than apple , BANNING the sale of ALL apple [and sub-brands] in the Entire EU, for the FULL duration of the lawsuit.

[with apple not complying, just because of some slight loophole they found after 2 years of looking trough the regulations]

 

I remember companies getting banned for trademark infringement, so Never say never.

https://nokiamob.net/2022/02/23/nokia-phones-banned-in-many-eu-markets/

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ipcom-htc-idUSTRE7BL0RZ20111222

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-14652482

 

In the Eye of the EU not complying with the DMA regulations could pose even worse for apple, as the EU can even revoke all trademarks, and patents Apple owns.

Giving apple a even worse run for their money.

This would be a Final ultimatum the EU can use against Apple.

[Fasterthannothing]

Thank goodness and good riddance to Apple after their purposeful disruption and destruction of the right to repair

[Arika]

Good.

 

I also love that people are saying that the lightning connector is more durable than usb-c, which while that is true, why is it that every cable I see out in the wild, looks like this:?

 

 

 

And before you reply "but that's clearly the cable, not the connector", doesn't matter, it's part of the same thing. 

[Derangel]

29 minutes ago, Arika S said:

Good.

 

I also love that people are saying that the lightning connector is more durable than usb-c, which while that is true, why is it that every cable I see out in the wild, looks like this:?

 

 

 

And before you reply "but that's clearly the cable, not the connector", doesn't matter, it's part of the same thing. 

Apple’s cables are garbage. The braided ones don’t have that problem. Apple’s USB-C cables likely have the same problem, but they haven’t been out long enough to become as noticeable.

[leadeater]

7 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

I would expect Apple to find some loophole, or just include a USB-C dongle in the box, or fight the EU over fines.

iPhones have clocks therefore are watches, done 

 

[Blademaster91]

Just now, leadeater said:

iPhones have clocks therefore are watched, done 

 

The EU iPhone only functions as a clock unless you pay for the iPhone subscription

[hishnash]

41 minutes ago, Arika S said:

also love that people are saying that the lightning connector is more durable

when people say this I think they are referring to the port. Since the port just has connectors on the outside it does not have a part in the sent that can be deflected/damaged if something else is forced in or sand/grit in in the socket when the connector is plugged in. A usb-c port has the thinks enter connector that can be damaged much more easily than the connectors on the outside edge.  When a cable fails you can replaced it but if a port fails then replacing that is costly slow and annoying..  usb-c is great but is by no means as durable as lightning from a port perspective. 

[leadeater]

4 minutes ago, hishnash said:

when people say this I think they are referring to the port

Basically doesn't matter when every Apple cable ends up like that after not very long at all. The cables would be a lot more durable if Apple wasn't so obsessed with having them pure white and smooth, and the white lasts about 5 seconds after being used heh.

 

The connectors are great, the cables are trash, final product trash because it becomes unusable and expensive to first party replace. Real shame too as they could have been great.

[hishnash]

11 minutes ago, leadeater said:

The cables would be a lot more durable if Apple wasn't so obsessed with having them pure white and smooth, and the white lasts about 5 seconds after being used heh.

That is very true, in some products apple is shipping nicely woven cables, the lighting cables that ship with their keyboard and trackback are woven white cables that will likely last a long long time and also look much easer to clean if needed. The platsic that they use on the white cables just absorbs the dirt in a way that cant be cleaned off.

 

[wanderingfool2]

I fear mandating things like this.  All it does is make people conform to a certain standard (even if the standard might not necessarily be practical in all applications).  Imagine if this was mandated back in micro days...that would be terrible.  It does I think stifle innovation in that there is now no chance a competitor could step in and make a new or smarter type of charge port.

 

1 hour ago, Arika S said:

Good.

 

I also love that people are saying that the lightning connector is more durable than usb-c, which while that is true, why is it that every cable I see out in the wild, looks like this:?

 

And before you reply "but that's clearly the cable, not the connector", doesn't matter, it's part of the same thing. 

As much as I have a tendency to hate Apple, I must admit that the lightning connector is a lot more brilliant than the USB connector.

 

You say "doesn't matter, it's part of the same thing" but I argue it's not.  You can always get a higher quality cable than the breakable one Apple provides.   If a cable breaks as well you can easily replace it.  If the usb-c connector breaks you are out of luck.

 

The example I use a lot is imagine you get lint stuck in the connector...so when you push in the cable it doesn't go in all the way (it's happened to me many times, and I've had to deal with it on many peoples phones at work who complain their phone keeps disconnecting from the charger or while transferring).  The way you have to clean an USB-C port is a lot more time consuming than a lightning connector.  A lightning connector I literally could grab a toothpick and scrap out everything stuck in the port.  On an USB-C because you have the center connection it doesn't work as well (and you risk damaging the middle connector portion).  Maybe it's me as well, but I find that USB-C just lends itself to having more debris stuck in it, and if you are unlucky and get something in there you can damage the connector itself.

[Arika]

11 minutes ago, wanderingfool2 said:

Maybe it's me as well, but I find that USB-C just lends itself to having more debris stuck in it, and if you are unlucky and get something in there you can damage the connector itself.

I've never had to clean out a connector on any of my devices....ever, and this is with my phone in my bag, which i guarantee has more stuff (and lint) than someone's pockets.

 

Quote

You say "doesn't matter, it's part of the same thing" but I argue it's not.  You can always get a higher quality cable than the breakable one Apple provides.

 

remember that debacle a few years ago where Apple was actively blocking third party cables from working properly if at all? If you can only use the ones Apple provides, they had better be more durable than a hollow glass needle.

 

Quote

If the usb-c connector breaks you are out of luck.

If you're breaking the usb-c connector inside a device, then you are being waaaaaaaay to rough with it. you don't need to hulk smash in every cable like you're an action star starting up a nuclear reactor.

[poochyena]

29 minutes ago, wanderingfool2 said:

I fear mandating things like this.  All it does is make people conform to a certain standard (even if the standard might not necessarily be practical in all applications).  Imagine if this was mandated back in micro days...that would be terrible.

what? Why? USB micro was incredible when it became standardized since before that, nearly every single device had its own unique charger.

 

30 minutes ago, wanderingfool2 said:

It does I think stifle innovation in that there is now no chance a competitor could step in and make a new or smarter type of charge port.

huh???????? Why would no company want to great better ports and cables, improving their devices? If they don't create new features, then what would compel people to buy more new products?

22 minutes ago, Arika S said:

I've never had to clean out a connector on any of my devices....ever, and this is with my phone in my bag, which i guarantee has more stuff (and lint) than someone's pockets.

I've had to once or twice. It definitely happens. My phone refused to fast charge because of it too.

[Blademaster91]

54 minutes ago, wanderingfool2 said:

If the usb-c connector breaks you are out of luck.

I think if you're having problems with a broken usb-c connector the cable is being forced way too hard into the port, I've never had a port break, even with micro USB with how much people complained those broke, I usually wore out the micro USB cable so it didn't "click" into the port very well.

54 minutes ago, wanderingfool2 said:

 

The example I use a lot is imagine you get lint stuck in the connector...so when you push in the cable it doesn't go in all the way (it's happened to me many times, and I've had to deal with it on many peoples phones at work who complain their phone keeps disconnecting from the charger or while transferring).  The way you have to clean an USB-C port is a lot more time consuming than a lightning connector.  A lightning connector I literally could grab a toothpick and scrap out everything stuck in the port.  On an USB-C because you have the center connection it doesn't work as well (and you risk damaging the middle connector portion).  Maybe it's me as well, but I find that USB-C just lends itself to having more debris stuck in it, and if you are unlucky and get something in there you can damage the connector itself.

I've only had to clean out a usb-c port a few times, but having a case and not putting a phone in a pocket with the usb port facing down might help.

[leadeater]

53 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

I think if you're having problems with a broken usb-c connector the cable is being forced way too hard into the port, I've never had a port break, even with micro USB with how much people complained those broke, I usually wore out the micro USB cable so it didn't "click" into the port very well.

It's more likely from leverage strain from the device and cabling being moved around while plugged in, over a long time could induce port slop and impede proper contact. That's actually where Lightning is a little better, the port and connector is less complicated and requires less precision so won't be affect by things like this as much.

[Zodiark1593]

4 hours ago, Arika S said:

Good.

 

I also love that people are saying that the lightning connector is more durable than usb-c, which while that is true, why is it that every cable I see out in the wild, looks like this:?

 

 

 

And before you reply "but that's clearly the cable, not the connector", doesn't matter, it's part of the same thing. 

Off topic, but I must be a pretty distant outlier, as my cable I got with my iPhone 11, two and a half years ago, is still in one piece. My Dad and sister have each gone through a handful of them in that time. It’s not as though I do anything special, I don’t think. I’m just pulling out the cable by the plastic end, and not subject the cable to steep angles. 
 

Kind of the same thing with Micro USB for me. The lack of reversibility was a thorn, but as far as longevity goes, I’ve not had issues with those, even on my old phones that used it. 

I’ve used both USB-C (my previous phone), and Lightning for a couple of years. In general use, I find them to be no different in feel. However, my older USB-C cables tended to lose their grip over time, even with cleaning. A new cable resolves this. My two and a half year old Lightning cable still takes some deliberate effort to remove, likely due to the fastening mechanism being in the connector itself, and using separate springs. In the USB-C cable end, the pins are the fastening mechanism. 
 

For cleaning, the Lighting connector is a lot easier to thoroughly remove lint and dirt, though one has to be mindful of the pins. USB-C, it’s easier to see what to avoid, and so long as you keep from bending the internal piece, it’s hard to do damage. However, it also takes a lot longer to clean as you’re working around the center post. 
 

I’d prefer for a standardized port designed and specialized for the rigors of mobile devices. USB-C is good, and highly flexible, but it catches dirt and lint like crazy, and cleaning them sucks, and they’re still only friction fit. A hypothetical USB-M (magnetic) with few, stout contacts, and very shallow depth would be highly durable. The fewer contacts sacrifice data rate for durability, though wireless connectivity can make up for this. 

[Spotty]

4 hours ago, leadeater said:

iPhones have clocks therefore are watches, done 

They're already one step ahead of you 

 

[wanderingfool2]

5 hours ago, Arika S said:

I've never had to clean out a connector on any of my devices....ever, and this is with my phone in my bag, which i guarantee has more stuff (and lint) than someone's pockets.

At my work, I would say it's about once every 2 months that someone brings me their phone saying they need a new one because it's not charging...and after I clean the port it works perfectly.  For my own personal phone it's happened a few times where I've needed to clean it out for the cables to properly go in...I mean it still works if it wasn't cleaned but the charge rate dipped.  (Specifically I find it happens more often with Samsung...not sure why)

 

5 hours ago, Arika S said:

remember that debacle a few years ago where Apple was actively blocking third party cables from working properly if at all? If you can only use the ones Apple provides, they had better be more durable than a hollow glass needle.

I've sourced plenty of better cables...sure there was the issue, but it has never stopped me from getting cheap good quality replacement cables for work.

 

5 hours ago, Arika S said:

If you're breaking the usb-c connector inside a device, then you are being waaaaaaaay to rough with it. you don't need to hulk smash in every cable like you're an action star starting up a nuclear reactor.

It all depends.  The design of the usb-c makes it inherently more likely to be broken than a lightning port.  I've never personally done it, but I do know a few people who broke theirs.  There was one person who tried using their old phone charger to charge their new phone (micro).  There's also the tripping over cables  hat cause it to land funny and break things or office chair ran over the end of the USB cable crimping it in such a way that it breaks the connector when inserting but still feels as though it can be inserted, and other misc things.  It's not common but it's a lot more likely to happen on an USB-C.  Lightning I find is just more reliable in that way.  [Just as a note, I do actively hate Apple, but do give them credit where credit's due].

 

4 hours ago, poochyena said:

what? Why? USB micro was incredible when it became standardized since before that, nearly every single device had its own unique charger.

I also remember those days and having 3 devices (one phone, 2 GPS)  "break" because the micro usb's connector while claiming to be designed for 10,000+ insertions...the soldered joints didnt hold up (and they eventually needed to be held at certain angles to keep them charging).  My previous propriety phone connector outlasted it all (literally 5 years of abuse and no sign of issues).  From my work alone, we had so many devices with broken micro and mini ports.

 

While I'm not opposed to them trying to set a recommended standard, I am in general against forcing a standard.

 

4 hours ago, poochyena said:

huh???????? Why would no company want to great better ports and cables, improving their devices? If they don't create new features, then what would compel people to buy more new products?

I know a few "rugged" phones used at work which will now have to change (I forget the make/model, since I really haven't had to deal with them since deployment).  They have had a nice USB connection that was like the magsafe connectors...but oversized.  It made it so it was fully waterproof, and pretty idiot proof as well.  You just held the cable close by and it snapped into place with strong magnets.  Under the new regulation they will now have to change their design.  [Yes I know you can buy USB magnet ones that are similar but they typically stick out as a bump and in this case would likely be less rugged].  Like imagine something like a Sonim connector (Although with Sonim they do technically have an USB-C port...but the way it's implemented I doubt it would count)

 

So yea, stiffing innovation if companies are forced to use a technology that doesn't necessarily suit the needs of said device.  I'm not against having a set "standard" that is the recommended, but really I do believe it should be strongly worded recommendation...after all we moved to USB-C and everything without forcing companies really to (with Apple being the notable standout)

 

4 hours ago, poochyena said:

I've had to once or twice. It definitely happens. My phone refused to fast charge because of it too.

Yes, agree 100%.  The thing is the first thing to go is fast charging and USB3 transfer speeds...but I think in general a lot of people don't notice, some literally think that it's their phone that is just dying and needs replacing  (I've actually saved a few friends from buying a new phone because of that).  Although it's when it gets to the point of bumping the cable stops and starts it charging that people start noticing it.