nvidia If you spec it, they will come: RTX 4090 rumored to consume 600 watts

[BachChain]

Summary

 

It seems like NVidia is wasting no time in taking advantage of ATX 3.0's new "High Power" connector. If insider contacts and speculation by Igor's Lab are to be believed, then the upcoming NVidia RTX 4090 is expected to be rated for a TGP of 600 watts, with 450 of that dedicated to just the GPU itself.

 

Quotes

Quote

In his report, the Igor's Lab editor outlines his past GeForce RTX power consumption predictions and applies a similar model to the RTX 4090. [...] Wallossek says the TGP figure of 600W, which seems to be derived from his insider contacts and the clues found in the RTX 3090 Ti, is like "Ada's Playground."

 

From the TGP figure of 600W, Wallossek deducts several reasonable subcomponent consumption figures. With Ada Lovelace architecture GPUs like the RTX 4090, the newer GDDR6X from Micron is expected to eat through ~20W less power than the previous gen. Even though they are faster VRAM chips, the quantity required may be cut in half due to their increased density. Other significant deductions made to come to the 450W max GPU consumption come from MOSFETs, fans, PCB losses, and a lot of wasted energy which will be converted to heat.

 

My thoughts

Good god; at what point is 8K ray-traced 400fps just not worth it.

 

Sources

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvidia-geforce-rtx-4090-really-could-pull-600w

https://www.igorslab.de/wo-die-600-watt-der-nvidia-geforce-rtx-4090-eigentlich-herkommen-eine-schaetzung-von-gpu-und-komponenten/

https://www-igorslab-de.translate.goog/wo-die-600-watt-der-nvidia-geforce-rtx-4090-eigentlich-herkommen-eine-schaetzung-von-gpu-und-komponenten/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp

[Paul Thexton]

I'm looking forward to the 10 series RTX powered by an 8kW outdoor diesel generator.

[Deadpool2onBlu-Ray]

3 minutes ago, BachChain said:

Summary

 

It seems like NVidia is wasting no time in taking advantage of ATX 3.0's new "High Power" connector. If insider contacts and speculation by Igor's Lab are to be believed, then the upcoming NVidia RTX 4090 is expected to be rated for a TGP of 600 watts, with 450 of that dedicated to just the GPU itself.

 

Quotes

 

My thoughts

Good god; at what point is 8K ray-traced 400fps just not worth it.

 

Sources

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvidia-geforce-rtx-4090-really-could-pull-600w

https://www.igorslab.de/wo-die-600-watt-der-nvidia-geforce-rtx-4090-eigentlich-herkommen-eine-schaetzung-von-gpu-und-komponenten/

https://www-igorslab-de.translate.goog/wo-die-600-watt-der-nvidia-geforce-rtx-4090-eigentlich-herkommen-eine-schaetzung-von-gpu-und-komponenten/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp

Eh, not too worried. I think this gen the main purpose will be performance but next gen will be efficiency. 

[BetteBalterZen]

2 minutes ago, Paul Thexton said:

I'm looking forward to the 10 series RTX powered by an 8kW outdoor diesel generator.

I freaking hope the electricity and gas prices will have come down by then. Otherwise these GPUs will ruin me

[Paul Thexton]

5 minutes ago, BetteBalterZen said:

I freaking hope the electricity and gas prices will have come down by then. Otherwise these GPUs will ruin me

I've been working from home since the pandemic first hit the UK, so very rarely need to put Petrol (sorry, Gas) in my car. I went to the pump at the weekend though and holy crap  (£1.75/litre ... about USD $8.50/gallon - but keep in mind the taxation model is probably different)

 

I'm all for high performance gaming (even if I don't bother myself), but sometimes I think the ever increasing physical size and power draw of the cards isn't really a good road to be going down.

[BetteBalterZen]

1 minute ago, Paul Thexton said:

isn't really a good road to be going down.

I agree!!! And yup, prices are crazy. Luckily my boss have said that if Russia does something insane which would cause the prices to go up further that I am allowed to work from home everyday. 

[Blademaster91]

I think higher performance is nice, but at 600W it isn't worth it, the rtx 3000 series cards are already power hungry and too large in size.

[BetteBalterZen]

2 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

I think higher performance is nice, but at 600W it isn't worth it, the rtx 3000 series cards are already power hungry and too large in size.

I agree. 

I would have prefered if Nvidia just 100% focused on better power efficiency. The 30 series, IMO, is strong enough for todays needs, again, IMO, before anyone attacks my comment here

[GuiltySpark_]

I don't care about how much power is used as long as the performance is there to match it. High power usage does not mean poor efficiency but at the same time, none of these products exist for purchase so no one has any idea of the efficiency levels. 

[pas008]

no matter to me either way higher end cards always have been like this anyway exception of a couple gens

 

and topic title fits it

if you are going to have a 600w connector standard why not use it and push the it to the limits for certain higher models

 

[SupaKomputa]

I guess at some point they will release a rebranded seasonic PSU or maybe some certification. to keep the PSU business running. haha.

[Paul Thexton]

47 minutes ago, GuiltySpark_ said:

High power usage does not mean poor efficiency

Absolutely true.

 

Formula 1's hybrid technology engines are pushing 50% thermal efficiency compared to ~20% for most petrol engines according to this post.  But that level of performance in an engine just isn't really sensible outside of competitive racing.

 

I guess it's difficult (even undesirable) for NVidia to focus on power efficiency with their PCIe cards, where people expect big performance bumps with every new generation.  Maybe the only way they'll improve that is by focusing on power efficiency for laptop chips and fine tuning their approach in that market?

[Obioban]

At some point, the power delivery of wall outlets at 120v is going to become a restriction point, the way processors and GPUs are headed

[Zodiark1593]

As long as overall efficiency is good, and designs are highly scalable, then I’m not overly concerned. Just pick the card within the power consumption you’re willing to go with. 
 

Though the 3090 TI is not a good look. 

[Paul Thexton]

9 minutes ago, Obioban said:

At some point, the power delivery of wall outlets at 120v is going to become a restriction point, the way processors and GPUs are headed

Speak for yourself, I can get 240v @ 13A (so just under 3kW) from my wall sockets... well, one of them if it's a double socket outlet.  Not that I'd ever want to.

[Obioban]

29 minutes ago, Paul Thexton said:

Speak for yourself, I can get 240v @ 13A (so just under 3kW) from my wall sockets... well, one of them if it's a double socket outlet.  Not that I'd ever want to.

While you can, it seems unlikely they're going to design parts for that... as most people can't. My guess is that ~1200W is the most they'd want to routinely design systems to-- and peak, not sustained.

[LAwLz]

Please keep in mind that the 4090 is a halo product and does not represent the 40 series overall.

I feel like people tend to put way too much focus on halo products these days. I get that it is fun to drool over the best of the best, but don't let that product cloud your perception of the other products. That's exactly what the marketing execs at these companies want you to do. 

[BuckGup]

7 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Please keep in mind that the 4090 is a halo product and does not represent the 40 series overall.

I feel like people tend to put way too much focus on halo products these days. I get that it is fun to drool over the best of the best, but don't let that product cloud your perception of the other products. That's exactly what the marketing execs at these companies want you to do. 

The point is Nvidia's flagship consumer GPU uses 600 watts and the cards that fall under it still use the same architecture. Yes lower end cards will consume less power but Nvidia has designed their chip to be able to use 600 watts of power. It would be much more impressive if they provided more computing power at the same tdp as previous generations or take the AMD route and focus less on raw performance and more on energy efficiency. Take this all with a salt pile as this is unconfirmed but based upon the current Nvidia datacenter GPUs I have very little doubt this is fake

[leadeater]

59 minutes ago, Obioban said:

While you can, it seems unlikely they're going to design parts for that... as most people can't. My guess is that ~1200W is the most they'd want to routinely design systems to-- and peak, not sustained.

"Most" people live in 220v-240v countries....

[Zodiark1593]

4 minutes ago, leadeater said:

"Most" people live in 220v-240v countries....

As an Electroboom subscriber, I concur. 
 

(and Technology Connections hits this topic really well too)

[leadeater]

17 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

Take this all with a salt pile as this is unconfirmed but based upon the current Nvidia datacenter GPUs I have very little doubt this is fake

Can't see Nvidia or any AIB releasing air cooled cards in to the market with 600W TGP/TBP. Good reason why in the DC/Server market they have nearly all standardized on any package over 400W only has water cooling options. There are some that allow air cooling on 500W I think but not as common as water cooled system designs.

 

Edit:

The RTX 4000 generation will support the new ATX standard and PCIe 5.0 12VHPWR 600W negotiation. Supporting the PCIe 5.0 standard does not mean the GPU will use or be configured with that kind of TDP/TGP/TBP.

 

My RX 6800 XT has 3x 8 Pin PCIe power, it doesn't use that much power...

[Obioban]

1 hour ago, leadeater said:

"Most" people live in 220v-240v countries....

I wonder how that breaks down by GPU buyers. USA, Japan, Canada, Taiwan, South Korea, combined (all 100-120v) I'd guess are a pretty significant portion of the GPU market.

[leadeater]

20 minutes ago, Obioban said:

I wonder how that breaks down by GPU buyers. USA, Japan, Canada, Taiwan, South Korea, combined (all 100-120v) I'd guess are a pretty significant portion of the GPU market.

It can be significant while also not being "most", most certainly are 220v-240v and even the US is actually 220v anyway, you just split phase it but you can wire a 220V socket without any significant changes to your house wiring. This holds true for Canada also, Japan is weird because they have different grids and I don't know about Taiwan or South Korea but I would imagine the same as America since that's where the infrastructure designs would have been taken from.

 

No major datacenter or server room in the US/Canada runs 110V either.

 

If you have an auto sensing/auto ranging PSU (63V-263V) then go right ahead and rewire a 110V socket to 220V and enjoy the increased efficiency and higher maximum power output.

[Obioban]

Yeah-- I wired two 220v car chargers into my house this way.

 

... And, yes data centers aren't what I meant-- I meant consumer facing GPUs, like the RTX 4090 this thread was about.

 

It would be funny if gaming PCs start to need people to rewire for 220V outlets.

[LAwLz]

1 hour ago, BuckGup said:

The point is Nvidia's flagship consumer GPU uses 600 watts and the cards that fall under it still use the same architecture. Yes lower end cards will consume less power but Nvidia has designed their chip to be able to use 600 watts of power. It would be much more impressive if they provided more computing power at the same tdp as previous generations or take the AMD route and focus less on raw performance and more on energy efficiency. Take this all with a salt pile as this is unconfirmed but based upon the current Nvidia datacenter GPUs I have very little doubt this is fake

Nvidia has designed a chip, the highest end chip is not the only chip they are designing. It might also be that they are running it way past its peak efficiency just to get some headlines. Wouldn't be the first time. 

 

Who is saying they won't provide more compute at the same TDP? My guess is that they will. Chances are they have just extended the range of TDPs higher than before, but that cards with similar TDPs to previous generations will offer higher performance.