Do you Americans/Canadians ever drive manual cars?

[Dillpickle23422]

Yep, I drive a manual truck here in the US, as it was cheaper, as the company I bought it from got the "work package " (just the cheapest model) which is the cheaper version of the normal, f150. (crank windows instead of power, am/fm only radio instead of cd player, manual transmission). I think that knowing how to drive stick can help, as you gain access to so many other cars that you wouldn't be able to drive normally

[Donut417]

17 minutes ago, Dillpickle23422 said:

as you gain access to so many other cars that you wouldn't be able to drive normally

Thats fading away fast. Many manufactures have stopped building manuals in certain models because they dont sell. Not to mention they dont teach manuals in Drivers Ed, at least they didnt back when I took it in 2004. Even Semi Trucks are coming in automatics these days. 

[SpikeSpiegel]

I haven't drove a manual car since the early 90's when my father had his Isuzu Trooper which was from 1987 I believe and it was a manual truck/SUV.

[Colty]

7 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

The only reason I brought that up is that I've had many arguments with "manual" fanboys who insist that driving stick shift "makes you a better driver" because some BS about them paying more attention to driving because of the manual shifting. Despite the fact that needing to pay attention to RPM's and shifting literally means less of your brain is paying attention to the road itself.

I don't look at the tach, I can feel/hear when the car "winds out", is about to lug, ect. Typically though, you're shifting before you get to those points. I have an understanding of "40mph is 5th gear on a flat road, 4th gear up a hill", that sort of response is one I don't even think about, I just perform the action and change gears. 

As far as driving "better", I would say, yes. For certain things, and for people who really care enough.
Here's an example -
I engine brake constantly. In modern cars, if your foot isn't on the throttle, no gas/diesel is used. When you down-shift in a manual car and don't give any throttle input, you engine brake. Effectively using the engine's resistance to slow down the car instead of using your brakes. I do this all the time, my brake pads last a really long, I get good fuel economy no matter what stick-shift car I drive (even V8 BMW's), and I've also used it to slow down in situations where I needed more control than pumping the brakes would have allowed. When you engine brake, you're not requiring a huge amount of extra effort on your tires. If I had only used my brakes in some of those situations, I might have slid for a moment or two. 

I don't think that driving stick means you are a better driver. There's no immediate jump in skill. An F1 driver who's never operated a clutch is still better than an 80yr old woman who drives her AMC Gremlin around town banging gears. But I do think there's an extra level of understanding a vehicle when you learn stick, and that can translate to better driving/driving habits when you apply that knowledge appropriately. 

[Beerzerker]

1 hour ago, Donut417 said:

Thats fading away fast. Many manufactures have stopped building manuals in certain models because they dont sell. Not to mention they dont teach manuals in Drivers Ed, at least they didnt back when I took it in 2004. Even Semi Trucks are coming in automatics these days. 

This is true and must say these too have been automatics as well for decades now.
Used to drive these around everyday to know it:

 

These have the 3408 V8 twin turbo diesel engine with a 7 speed Allison automatic trans that's computer controlled and they can (Believe it or not) run up to just over 60MPH on a flat straight if you're crazy enough to drive one of these that fast.

 

[atxcyclist]

I haven't owned an automatic vehicle since 2004, I have one manual car and two standard foot-shifted motorcycles.

[rikitikitavi]

25 minutes ago, atxcyclist said:

two standard foot-shifted motorcycles

What is a foot-shifted motorcycle?

 

Edit: I guess you mean manual... it is just a very odd way of saying this. I started to think about a weird variation of a 'suicide' clutch or smth

[meowingtonspHd]

I waited 4 months to get the car I wanted, in manual. It was the base model, had less power, less features, etc. I love it and I'm glad I waited. 

[DoctorNick]

6 hours ago, rikitikitavi said:

What is a foot-shifted motorcycle?

 

Edit: I guess you mean manual... it is just a very odd way of saying this. I started to think about a weird variation of a 'suicide' clutch or smth

A motorcycle with manual gear box.

[DoctorNick]

In Denmark you can't get a license without driving manual. Most cars sold are manual gear box too. Might not be true anymore sadly.

[dalekphalm]

19 hours ago, Bramimond said:

How do you observe the pedals when looking at cars you do not own from outside?

I mean, cars have windows. You can literally just look in the window and see how many pedals are in the footwell.

18 hours ago, nadifish said:

I have heard that Canadians are very conservative in all matters concerning the car. And that's why they mostly drive a car with manual controls. 

Do you live in Canada? It's literally the complete opposite in most of the country. Most cars in Canada are Automatic, and by a large margin. According to various research and statistics by Automotive Insurance companies, only about 9% of cars in Canada are manual transmission.

18 hours ago, rikitikitavi said:

Well, in this case (thread) it kinda falls into the same bucket as making periodical backups, being a bit more active, having a white shirt and a sport jacket, some extra cash on you that you never touch, etc.

You just might never need any of those things, but, if you need it - you have it, and you are glad that you made the effort to [...].

Disagree - a backup is a sensible precaution that can cause massive issues if you don't take it. It's not a matter of if, but rather when you'll need a backup.

 

Whereas in Canada, with only 9% of cars being manual, I can literally go my entire life without needing to drive one. That percentage is only going to drop over time, with most manufacturers rarely offering manual options (they simply don't sell as well), and with the conversion to EV's where most of them are single gear (yes you can have multi-gear EV's though - the Porsche Taycan EV has a dual-gear gearbox).

17 hours ago, Beerzerker said:

All of what I posted was from what I saw earlier:

Sounded like you were indicating that for everyone, not just for yourself and if you were I must disagree.

Literally my entire point is that none of this applies to everyone. Therefore, as a blanket statement, it's wrong by default. I'm not saying it's wrong for you - or others. It's just not "right" for everyone.

17 hours ago, Beerzerker said:

Your situation isn't the same as another so your needs aren't the same, instead they would be unique to you and you alone as you've made the point yourself by your last:

That's literally reinforcing my point - as a blanket statement, saying that everyone should learn manual is wrong, because different people have different needs.

 

Just because other people require a manual, or it's very common in their country, only reinforces the point that not everywhere is like that.

17 hours ago, Beerzerker said:

And that's fine if that's your choice, because it is.
All I'm saying about it all is knowing how to drive a manual is just another skill you could pick up on if you wanted to and there is no disadvantage to knowing how.

I do not disagree.

15 hours ago, Colty said:

I don't look at the tach, I can feel/hear when the car "winds out", is about to lug, ect. Typically though, you're shifting before you get to those points. I have an understanding of "40mph is 5th gear on a flat road, 4th gear up a hill", that sort of response is one I don't even think about, I just perform the action and change gears. 

As far as driving "better", I would say, yes. For certain things, and for people who really care enough.
Here's an example -
I engine brake constantly. In modern cars, if your foot isn't on the throttle, no gas/diesel is used. When you down-shift in a manual car and don't give any throttle input, you engine brake. Effectively using the engine's resistance to slow down the car instead of using your brakes. I do this all the time, my brake pads last a really long, I get good fuel economy no matter what stick-shift car I drive (even V8 BMW's), and I've also used it to slow down in situations where I needed more control than pumping the brakes would have allowed. When you engine brake, you're not requiring a huge amount of

extra effort on your tires. If I had only used my brakes in some of those situations, I might have slid for a moment or two. 

Did you know that you can engine brake with many modern automatic transmissions? Basically any auto trans with "manual mode" (which is a lot of them these days) can do it. I use engine braking on my car from time to time, 6-speed Automatic w/ manual mode.

15 hours ago, Colty said:

I don't think that driving stick means you are a better driver. There's no immediate jump in skill. An F1 driver who's never operated a clutch is still better than an 80yr old woman who drives her AMC Gremlin around town banging gears. But I do think there's an extra level of understanding a vehicle when you learn stick, and that can translate to better driving/driving habits when you apply that knowledge appropriately. 

Driving skill has no relation to what kind of transmission you operate. It really just comes down to innate skill, and practicing good habits.

[Bramimond]

44 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

I mean, cars have windows. You can literally just look in the window and see how many pedals are in the footwell.

Ignoring the fact that nobody would ever bother doing something like that, try taking a picture of your car from outside that captures the pedals. I'm pretty sure that angle is impossible for most cars. 

[dalekphalm]

7 minutes ago, Bramimond said:

Ignoring the fact that nobody would ever bother doing something like that, try taking a picture of your car from outside that captures the pedals. I'm pretty sure that angle is impossible for most cars. 

... why would you want to take a picture of that though?

[rikitikitavi]

1 hour ago, dalekphalm said:

Disagree - a backup is a sensible precaution that can cause massive issues if you don't take it. It's not a matter of if, but rather when you'll need a backup.

 

Whereas in Canada, with only 9% of cars being manual, I can literally go my entire life without needing to drive one. That percentage is only going to drop over time, with most manufacturers rarely offering manual options (they simply don't sell as well), and with the conversion to EV's where most of them are single gear (yes you can have multi-gear EV's though - the Porsche Taycan EV has a dual-gear gearbox).

Yes, backup is a sensible precaution... but it might seem so only to you and not necessarily to the person next to you, or rather it has a different priority (due to factors/experience).

 

I can not claim that a backup of your documents is more valuable than doing smth else as precautionary measure (like aforementioned healthier lifestyle) or having a driving licence that covers more vehicles.

However, I can say that having a driving licence is a minimal precautionary measure that takes the least amount of effort and time from the 3 (yes, I know a bit silly example, but for effect and simplicity).

 

Here's an example of a few people I know, that have smth in common - backup habits. They backup either photos, games or other mostly inconsequential media... they don't care to backup documents, they don't even have digital copies of their main docs (ids/passports). When asked why - they say the same thing: 'why do I need it', 'government can always make new', 'I rarely if ever use those documents, like once in 5y', 'my granny/parents never did that, and they are all good and well' etc

 

Anyway, we are not talking exclusively about Canada, or the area you live in, we are talking about it in general. As far as you know you (or whoever) might end up in some other area, etc.

[BuckGup]

Electric cars are the future so no need for any type of transmission debates and to go even further you won't be driving at all with self driving cars. This statement is for the mass public and not directed towards car enthusiasts 

[Beerzerker]

2 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

Literally my entire point is that none of this applies to everyone. Therefore, as a blanket statement, it's wrong by default. I'm not saying it's wrong for you - or others. It's just not "right" for everyone.

That's literally reinforcing my point - as a blanket statement, saying that everyone should learn manual is wrong, because different people have different needs.

 

Just because other people require a manual, or it's very common in their country, only reinforces the point that not everywhere is like that.

I do not disagree.

I believe we are actually in agreement here, just stating it in different ways.

For some it would be a better option to know how but at the same time it's up to the individual, that's what makes it a 50/50 proposition.

Really it's just a recomendation and yes, I do suggest it.

There certainly isn't any harm in learning how, as said it's another skill you'd have and may one day pay off just by having it. I know everyone has a "Situation" but things change and so do situations at times, like it or not.

I even said it earlier some woudn't be able to for various reasons.
That again goes back to their situation and sometimes it's not a choice, and that's completely understandable.

If someone doesn't see a need to learn how it's their choice, all I'm saying is it's a skill that's useful and may even be a "Life Saver" one day pertaining to what kind of situation you may find yourself in unexpectedly - That goes to the referred change in situation at any time.
 

[dalekphalm]

7 minutes ago, Beerzerker said:

I believe we are actually in agreement here, just stating it in different ways.

Agreed.

7 minutes ago, Beerzerker said:

For some it would be a better option to know how but at the same time it's up to the individual, that's what makes it a 50/50 proposition.

Really it's just a recomendation and yes, I do suggest it.

There certainly isn't any harm in learning how, as said it's another skill you'd have and may one day pay off just by having it. I know everyone has a "Situation" but things change and so do situations at times, like it or not.

I even said it earlier some woudn't be able to for various reasons.
That again goes back to their situation and sometimes it's not a choice, and that's completely understandable.

If someone doesn't see a need to learn how it's their choice, all I'm saying is it's a skill that's useful and may even be a "Life Saver" one day pertaining to what kind of situation you may find yourself in unexpectedly - That goes to the referred change in situation at any time.

 

[Colty]

4 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

Did you know that you can engine brake with many modern automatic transmissions? Basically any auto trans with "manual mode" (which is a lot of them these days) can do it. I use engine braking on my car from time to time, 6-speed Automatic w/ manual mode.

Yes, I was pondering mentioning it, but decided against it. I think a lot of people would agree that aggressively "suggesting" your auto box to downshift and engine brake isn't as smooth/forgiving as doing it properly with a clutch and rev matching. Some newer trucks are setup to engine brake when towing, I'm sure a McLaren can do it all day long, but I wouldn't suspect a base model Camry auto transmission to be designed to aggressively downshift (say up to 3.5k/4k RPM) at every red light/stop sign for 300k miles. A manual Camry though? Yes, because it's not down to TCU programming, it's down to understanding your car and working with it. 

[Bramimond]

3 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

... why would you want to take a picture of that though?

To proof that it would be possible to see the pedals from outside with all doors closed, which I am disputing. 

[Arika]

I learned how to drive in a manual, I have a manual license, but I plan to only buy automatic cars.

[Quackers101]

while I do like the idea of handling manual drive.

For me it's a bunch of BS, had so many cars that didn't fit me in order to make the manual function properly.

Of course if I did more custom design and modifications, this could maybe help my situations.

From not getting the clutch in all the way, making it easy to stall and so on. The only good thing I find about manuals at times, is the speed control compared to eletric vehicles which can acc too fast, although the management while in speed isn't exactly safer. unless you get used to it or as an "reflex".

[Colty]

1 hour ago, comander said:

1. These days automatics are MORE efficient and reliable than manuals

Being more or less reliable is entirely dependent on being well designed. This is more case-by-case, but for an example, an Allison auto transmission will outlive a DeLorean manual transmission, but that's a diesel towing/military transmission vs a 1980's transmission designed on a time crunch. I've seen plenty of 250k+ (even 300k+) manual transmissions that haven't been opened once. (One of these being on a 90's V8 BMW with enough torque and HP to keep up with modern sports cars) I can't say the same for auto's. I've seen one or two 250k+ auto transmissions and I can't confidently say they weren't rebuilt at some point and/or on the second trans. 

Efficiency is more down to gearing than anything else, and while CVTs get great efficiency, the reliability isn't there right now. And between DSG's fluid/filters and CVT's fluid/filters, even if they are more efficient (which is debatable), they're not cheaper due to the necessary service schedule. 

[bmx6454]

there is no need to learn manual anymore, at least in the us imo. i learned because, like many others, i enjoy it. it makes driving even the lowest powered no thrill car a joy, at least for me. i also do all the work on my cars, and manual cars tend to break less, require less work(clutch can easily last 100k if you drive right), and be cheaper in some ways to repair. there are down sides, most of which mentioned. for me personally, i curse having a manual when i am stuck in stop-and-go traffic and can smell my clutch getting mad at me, and my leg getting tired.

tl:dr, learning can be useful and fun, not needed anymore though.

[Colty]

16 minutes ago, comander said:

I'm going to mildly correct myself after doing a few moments of research - automatic is likely more reliable if you're hardon the clutch. It's also seemingly cheaper to repair/maintain though automatic seems to get better fuel economy. 

This refers to modern vehicles (2015 onwards), not cars made before I was born. This is part of the reason why manuals are NOT being made nearly so much these days. 
 

You're correct about them being phased out due to the MPG differences. EPA requirements are pushing things towards 7/8spd dual clutch and CVT style transmissions. (Or ten speed autos which are a different story) Again, the service schedule required for these make them less wallet friendly, but the EPA only cares about how much/little the car consumes fuel. 

It's tough to find a 1:1 comparison to figure out which is more fuel efficient. My car's automatic equivalent (also a 6 speed, but a dual clutch) has different gear ratios. So between the extra weight of the automatic transmission and the taller gearing in the manual, the manual gets better MPG. For the newer versions of my car, the DSG is a 7spd and has taller gears, so that one gets better MPG. Really though, it's about how you drive, not what you drive. I'd be very interested to see the same gear ratios in a DSG, a normal torque converter auto, and a manual go around a track (at normal cruising speed) and compare MPG. In theory, if they're all in 6th gear the whole time, the lightest one (likely the manual) will win. The part we don't have any data on is if all are shifted at the same points around the track, which one is more efficient between gears. That's where the real difference would come into play for people that have more mixed driving habits instead of simulating someone who sits on the freeway for 80% of their commute. 

[Zomeguy]

On 12/4/2021 at 5:14 AM, Skiiwee29 said:

They are going out of "style" yes, but many older vehicles still are standard plus you can custom order with standard as well. Standard usually also gets better gas mileage compared to automatic counterpart, and if people don't learn how to drive manual... less chance of car getting stolen because the thief doesn't know how!!

Older automatic transmissions manual is better gas mileage but newer automatic transmissions they're on par or better mieage than standard.