Do you Americans/Canadians ever drive manual cars?

[Retro_R]

I'll preface this by saying im not a 'car person' mostly just speaking from observation. Im very much seperated from the car world.

 

But i live in the US, and 95% of the cars i've seen have all been automatic. I didnt even know what manual was rlly until recently, when my dad got a bunch of dodge vipers from the 90s. My car has automatic (and also electric), but i've only rlly started driving relatively recently. i dont really want to have to think abt switching gears and everything while driving, so automatic is so much better. I thought it was the same most other places, ig not haha. Also automatic only liscenes? Unless your looking for it, u prob cant get a manual car now adays, most ppl prefer auto bc its easier ig. But its always good to learn it, just in case, even though i dont know how lol.

[Sarra]

I'm from the US.

 

I've owned 6 Subarus, and a Toyota. All of them were manual. I learned to drive in a 5 speed Toyota, which I still see every day, and other than my mom buying a Subaru with an automatic, followed by a Subaru with a CVT, my parents have only mostly owned manuals.

 

I have been driving automatic equipped Fords for my job, and I have to say, the new 10 speed automatic transmissions really really suck. Ford, you can do better. They aren't smooth, the gears are terrible, and our old 4 speed automatic vans get better fuel economy, and the new 10 speed equipped vans are Hybrids.

[Sauron]

On 12/4/2021 at 11:32 PM, Actual_Criminal said:

Yeah, well apparently it is roughly 20-30 hours lesson time for automatics and 30-40 hours lesson time for manuals (on average).

That's personal preference rather than law. There is a minimum practice time that comes in at around 6 hours iirc, any more is up to the learner.

On 12/5/2021 at 12:42 AM, GDRRiley said:

thats been a myth, sure with early autos that didn't shift at the right time thats true but its hard for a 4-6 speed manual to compete with 8-10 speed auto

Auto cars I've driven had 6 gears at the most, I don't know how they stack up on average in terms of consumption though.

On 12/5/2021 at 12:47 AM, Actual_Criminal said:

As long as all electric cars can be charged fully at home, then I think it's possible. 

You may not always be able to park in a garage or near a charging station for the night, stopping to charge for an hour during the day while you may need to be somewhere can be a problem. It's not an insurmountable problem but right now electric cars are not for everyone (even disregarding the cost).

[Donut417]

On 12/4/2021 at 6:47 PM, Actual_Criminal said:

As long as all electric cars can be charged fully at home, then I think it's possible. 

The issue is 110v takes forever to charge them. Running 220v is not always a possibility. Further more the electrical grid can’t handle the load currently. The other issue with electric cars is they don’t pay road use tax which is tagged on to gas. Yeah they pay higher registration fees, but if you drive a gas car a lot you literally paying more tax. Electric cars you only pay that one time fee yearly. So they need to figure something out. 

[Spindel]

Read first post and skipped 6 pages of this thread.

 

Here is my take.

 

Everyone should learn to drive a manual car, gives you flexibility since it allows you to drive both, specially in situations where you loan or rent a car. Or for example rent a light truck when you are moving.

 

I drive an automatic and as long as I have a choice will always choose automatic for my daily driver. It’s much more comfortable specially in city driving or stop and go traffic. And on a country road or freeway you don’t switch gears anyway under normal driving.

 

With that said before I had kids I had a Mazda MX5 (Miata for you americans) and I would never own that car with an automatic. It’s a ”fun car” and that kind of car benefits from having a manual transmission. As a side note the MX5 also has the top spot of all cars in the category of snappy and satisfying gear shifts, once you driven one all other manual transmissions feel wobbly and like they belong in a tractor.

 

TL;DR 

Daily driver automatic.

Funcar manual.

Learn to drive with manual transmission for flexibilty of what you can drive.

 

 

For the record I’m swedish and live in Sweden.

[dalekphalm]

12 hours ago, Sauron said:

You may not always be able to park in a garage or near a charging station for the night, stopping to charge for an hour during the day while you may need to be somewhere can be a problem. It's not an insurmountable problem but right now electric cars are not for everyone (even disregarding the cost).

This is becoming less and less a problem every year - with DC Fast Chargers, you can get 80% charge in 30 minutes in some cases.

 

If you're just out and about running errands locally, you can even just charge for 15 minutes and get plenty of range for all your local errands.

 

Granted not everywhere has DC Fast Chargers yet - but they're rapidly spreading. A bigger issue is inconsistency between charging networks, especially in terms of being swift to resolve maintenance issues with broken chargers. Tesla's network, for example, is generally very quick at this - which makes sense given their head start over the competition.

11 hours ago, Donut417 said:

The issue is 110v takes forever to charge them. Running 220v is not always a possibility. Further more the electrical grid can’t handle the load currently.

110v is still fine for someone who only does in-town commuting, but I agree that is a major obstacle. This is highly dependent on your local infrastructure, and for anywhere with a growing population, not much of an issue given that any new build (particularly in new subdivisions) will be up to electrical code and should be able to handle 220v.

 

Older homes should eventually be updated - particularly between sales and during renovations. That's not much comfort for the current owner, mind you.

11 hours ago, Donut417 said:

The other issue with electric cars is they don’t pay road use tax which is tagged on to gas. Yeah they pay higher registration fees, but if you drive a gas car a lot you literally paying more tax. Electric cars you only pay that one time fee yearly. So they need to figure something out. 

Granted this will definitely depend on where you live, but in many places, the "road tax" on your gasoline bill is only a very tiny amount of what actually pays for road maintenance.

 

Someone over in Vancouver BC (a city with one of the highest tax rates on gasoline) researched a breakdown of road maintenance funding, and discovered that fuel tax rarely paid for much.

[Sauron]

3 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

This is becoming less and less a problem every year - with DC Fast Chargers, you can get 80% charge in 30 minutes in some cases.

Sure, that's still a lot longer than a gas refill which takes me 5 minutes max (plus it needs to be done more often). As I said I don't think these are unsolvable problems but they are a reality of the current electric car offer. And yes, standardization is also a big problem.

[Donut417]

5 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

ranted this will definitely depend on where you live, but in many places, the "road tax" on your gasoline bill is only a very tiny amount of what actually pays for road maintenance.

Only half  in Michigan and the rest goes to the schools. Thats why we have crumbling roads and an almost non existent education system. So many schools in this state had to suspend bus service because they don't have drivers. Teachers are quitting in droves because they cant afford to live on the little bit of salary districts choose to pay. 

 

6 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

10v is still fine for someone who only does in-town commuting, but I agree that is a major obstacle. This is highly dependent on your local infrastructure, and for anywhere with a growing population, not much of an issue given that any new build (particularly in new subdivisions) will be up to electrical code and should be able to handle 220v.

 

All homes in the US have 220v going to them. The issue is out side of stoves and dryers and maybe some HVAC you are not going to have 220volts ran anywhere else. Unless you have tools our in your garage that need 220, most places I have seen only do 110v. Code doesnt require 220v to be ran everywhere. Legally you can charge a car on 110v, so there will be no "Code Requirement". 

[dalekphalm]

2 hours ago, Donut417 said:

Only half  in Michigan and the rest goes to the schools. Thats why we have crumbling roads and an almost non existent education system. So many schools in this state had to suspend bus service because they don't have drivers. Teachers are quitting in droves because they cant afford to live on the little bit of salary districts choose to pay. 

That's a larger issue in general.

 

Point being that the amount of funding (at least in some areas) for road repairs that comes from fuel isn't that high, and as gasoline vehicles become less popular, they'll just make up the tax revenue in other ways (higher fees for EV's, or a "road tax" fee of some kind, etc).

 

That's not really an issue, and won't be until a much larger percentage of vehicles have switched to EV.

2 hours ago, Donut417 said:

All homes in the US have 220v going to them. The issue is out side of stoves and dryers and maybe some HVAC you are not going to have 220volts ran anywhere else. Unless you have tools our in your garage that need 220, most places I have seen only do 110v. Code doesnt require 220v to be ran everywhere. Legally you can charge a car on 110v, so there will be no "Code Requirement". 

That's not really a massive issue - it'll cost some money, but if you own a garage with your main panel there, for example, it's going to be really inexpensive to get a charger installed.

 

It really just depends on how long of a run it is from the charger location back to your main panel.

 

Some places are even mandating that new builds include wiring for a charger.

 

Anyone who is buying an EV should be thinking about these details - you can often get government rebates for the charger/installation too.

[bigmug]

The issue is really not the gearbox, but the clutch. You could easily have a fully manual gearbox, but with an automatic clutch. It could sense movement of the stick and combine that with sensor data from the engine, the wheels, inclination, speed, acceleration and automatically adapt the clutch engagement based on that.

With that said, there are situations where a manual car is superior. Getting towed is not an issue with a manual car - just put it in neutral and tow away. Nothing bad will happen. Not so for an automatic - they will need to be partially lifted, which is beyond what another car with a towing line (the usual situation) can offer. So, unless you can get a tow truck out to your location easily, you could get stuck for a very long time, potientially in severe cold.

Another advantage of a fully manual car is when the road surface is slippery (ice, snow, slush, mud). You then want to ease in the power, and use a higher-than-normal gear to reduce torque. That just not possible to do in an automatic car. Granted, many modern cars have various anti-skid functions that partially compensate for that, but at a premium, and still not as good as manual.

If I drive a rental car or if someone else is paying for the car ride (uni field trips, work, et c), then I'm fine with an automatic, but I strongly prefer manual for my own cars (I've owned an automatic, and I didn't like it).

[arnavvr]

On 12/4/2021 at 3:09 AM, Actual_Criminal said:

I am learning to drive in the UK where most people use manual cars. However, automatic-only licences are becoming more common because more and more people are just using automatic cars, like the States where I believe automatic is really popular.

 

My driving instructor even said there is no point going for manual these days and I should just go for automatic.

 

I am doing manual lessons because my new job soon will require driving around 10 hours or so per week and might be driving different cars.

 

Still, is my instructor right and is there really any point in doing manual lessons these days? 

I learned how to drive stick when I was 15 and got my license. I didn't take lessons though, my dad taught me how to drive.

 

I wouldn't say that there's no point, but for most people an automatic is fine. I feel that you learn how cars work and operate better if you know how to drive a manual, and I find that there is less distracted driving when you need both hands to drive.

 

That being said, driving a manual is a PITA in heavy traffic, and if I had a long commute I wouldn't drive stick.

 

I learned how to drive stick in San Francisco, which is definitely one of the more unforgiving places to learn how to drive stick, but I find it pretty useful nonetheless. Engine breaking down long hills is really convenient, and the added protection of not having to worry about your car getting stolen is really nice. 

[Colty]

5 hours ago, bigmug said:

The issue is really not the gearbox, but the clutch. You could easily have a fully manual gearbox, but with an automatic clutch. It could sense movement of the stick and combine that with sensor data from the engine, the wheels, inclination, speed, acceleration and automatically adapt the clutch engagement based on that.

VW offered a transmission similar to what you're describing in the 60's Beetle. Wiki will do a better job of explaining it than I ever could.

From what I understand, people who wanted an auto wanted something even more simple, and people who wanted a manual wanted a clutch pedal. It also didn't help that it was only a 3spd and the true manual was a 4spd. 

[dizmo]

...kind of an odd way to format your post, the title doesn't really have anything to do with the body.

 

In your position, I'd learn the manual; as you said, manual cars are far more common in Europe.

 

I've never driven a manual car, never will. I see no point, and have no interest in it. A lot of the things people say are better aren't really the case these days (faster, better fuel economy, etc) and even repairs are almost a moot point, depending on how often you need to replace your clutch. As fewer people need it done, there will be fewer shops that will do it, thus the cost will increase. The argument of "they're more fun", while true for them, is strictly a personal opinion and not a fact. All my friends that drove manuals with a passion have since gotten automatics, as they're just less of a pain in the ass in the city.

 

Living in the UK, and with manuals being significantly more common, I'd say learn it if you want. If you don't, don't bother, but realize the limitations it might place on you.

[rikitikitavi]

On 12/11/2021 at 8:51 PM, Colty said:

VW offered a transmission similar to what you're describing in the 60's Beetle. Wiki will do a better job of explaining it than I ever could.

From what I understand, people who wanted an auto wanted something even more simple, and people who wanted a manual wanted a clutch pedal. It also didn't help that it was only a 3spd and the true manual was a 4spd. 

I would say a better example of 'clutchless' manual is a SMG on BMW M3 CSL (more recent, more exiting lol). It is a sequential manual transmission with clutch operated by some hydraulic/electric system. I believe similar transmissions were/are used in exotic cars, when they don't want to use conventional manual. Also sequential w/ hydraulics are used in racing.

 

Sequential transmission w/ clutch (or simply manual) is what can be found on majority of motorcycles.

Difference in operating can be seen in skipping geas: in conventional manual car you have a 'free roaming' stick that can be pushed from gear 1 directly to gear 6; in sequential, you have to go through each gear in sequence - so 1-2-3-4-5-6, without engaging the clutch in the process.

[Yoinkerman]

I have 3 manual cars and one electric.  I think it's useful but I also like cars.  If you already can drive adding manual to your skills isn't a bad or hard thing to do

[Touch My Hamm]

Of Course my Evo X is manual...before the "real" Evo people complain about mine....I hear it everyday but I love the Evo X GSR lol. Canada bois.

[Colty]

1 hour ago, rikitikitavi said:

I would say a better example of 'clutchless' manual is a SMG on BMW M3 CSL (more recent, more exiting lol). It is a sequential manual transmission with clutch operated by some hydraulic/electric system. I believe similar transmissions were/are used in exotic cars, when they don't want to use conventional manual. Also sequential w/ hydraulics are used in racing.

 

Sequential transmission w/ clutch (or simply manual) is what can be found on majority of motorcycles.

Difference in operating can be seen in skipping geas: in conventional manual car you have a 'free roaming' stick that can be pushed from gear 1 directly to gear 6; in sequential, you have to go through each gear in sequence - so 1-2-3-4-5-6, without engaging the clutch in the process.

The SMG being sequential is the issue, the VW "auto-stick" allowed you to go from 1 to 3, skipping 2 if you wanted to, like a real manual.

And it had an "H pattern" instead of just "up, up, up, down, down" to change gears. 

[rikitikitavi]

1 hour ago, Colty said:

The SMG being sequential is the issue, the VW "auto-stick" allowed you to go from 1 to 3, skipping 2 if you wanted to, like a real manual.

And it had an "H pattern" instead of just "up, up, up, down, down" to change gears. 

Didn't know autostick had an 'H pattern'.

 

Sequential manual is a real manual - no matter if you are switching gears up/down or up/down/left/right, you still have to operate a clutch and match gear/rpm/speed yourself.

However, yes, SMG/'clutchless' transmission is non-conventional.

[rice guru]

I have absolutely zero interest in driving manual. I think the people in My city who are interested in manual are those who came from farms, older folk, or Car enthusiasts. " the whole people drive manual so so people have less chances of stealing it, while true and is a meme, but the more people learn manual the more chances your car will get stolen. I have learned to really do like cars with " sports modes" specifically the ones that let me emulate a manual drive experience as its great in the winter where I have to carefully traverse any dangerous winter condition. My current car has this and its great but other than that I'm very content with my automatic. what I'm starting to not appreciate is a disappearance of gears in favor of using CVT. all the controversy aside from CVT I just miss the feeling of upshifting an down shifting manual or automatic. 

[EphraimK]

On 12/5/2021 at 11:45 PM, Cool Dude 101 said:

When I learn how to drive, I want to learn to drive manual

I know how to drive a 12 passenger bus

[Zodiark1593]

My daily driver Mazda 3 is a 5-speed manual.

[Cool Dude 101]

Get me on a 1980's Yamaha phazer and I'll rip.

[Beerzerker]

3 hours ago, Cool Dude 101 said:

Get me on a 1980's Yamaha phazer and I'll rip.

I've rode one of those before.
It's a "Mini V-Max".

[wseaton]

I've owned many cars over the years: auto and manual. Currently own a 6 speed Mazda 3. Coolest car i owned was a 1989 Toyota MR2 Tbar. Once you've driven a mid engine car you are ruined. 

 

Biggest advantage of a stick is snow and ice. No two wheel drive automatic can match the control of an experienced driver with a stick. I live in the upper Midwest and I would rather have a stick than ABS.

 

 

[mwagen]

I'm a car guy and have been driving almost exclusively manual transmission cars for 20 years. It is a lot of fun having complete control over the engine's rev range and executing a perfect upshift on hard acceleration feels really good (though I've never bothered to master heel-toe downshifts..). Driving a manual is so second nature to me now that I think I'd miss the fun that comes with that control more than I would appreciate the convenience of automatic gear changes. 

17 hours ago, wseaton said:

I live in the upper Midwest and I would rather have a stick than ABS.

I'm from Michigan and no way would I go without ABS. There's really no substitute for being able to slam on the brakes without them locking up and spinning out of control.