Windows 11

[Dedayog]

According to a few articles on the 'net, the next big release for Windows will either be a complete overhaul of 10 or a new 11.  For example...

 

https://www.cnet.com/how-to/is-windows-11-on-the-way-heres-what-hints-microsoft-has-dropped-so-far/

 

I had thought that Windows 10 was the new "as a service" type of thing.  Anyone have any additional insight into what Win 11 will be?  Curious ho wmuch bigger and badder than 10 it will be.

 

Sorry if there is another topic about this already.

[Radium_Angel]

2 minutes ago, Dedayog said:

additional insight into what Win 11 will be?

A shitshow, just like WIn10

 

[manikyath]

it's not gonna be windows 11, i'll tell you that much.

 

it's gonna be a windows 10 21H2 or 22H1 that'll be an absolute nightmare for every IT department everywhere.

 

as for why everyone is hyping it as "it may be windows 11".. obvious: windows 11 gets a lot more clicks than 21H2

[Levent]

I actually have more hopes on them rebranding it as plain Windows. I dont have any high hopes about microsoft ever fixing or making anything better because it seems like their just release it and then fix it mentality is coming from way way up top.

[emosun]

it wouldnt be microsoft if they didnt make a massive mistake every few years. luckly I rode out windows 10 with 7 and avoided all the problems the majority of the world had to deal with it.

[Radium_Angel]

2 minutes ago, emosun said:

it wouldnt be microsoft if they didnt make a massive mistake every few years. luckly I rode out windows 10 with 7 and avoided all the problems the majority of the world had to deal with it.

Windows 9 is where it's at! ((sort of, it's Windows 8.1 Industry Embedded Pro with a Win7 skin on it), and yes it's awesome, I run it on my main system. All the pluses of 7 and 10, none of the drawbacks....unless you need DX12, then you're stuck with Win10)

[Murasaki]

I don't think anyone knows anything other than what's been vaguely said so far. But not expecting much really. Considering the scrapping of 10X and now announcing "the next generation of windows" kinda makes me feel skeptical at best.

[Mark Kaine]

22 minutes ago, manikyath said:

it's not gonna be windows 11, i'll tell you that much.

 

it's gonna be a windows 10 21H2 or 22H1 that'll be an absolute nightmare for every IT department everywhere.

 

as for why everyone is hyping it as "it may be windows 11".. obvious: windows 11 gets a lot more clicks than 21H2

Nah, i think ms is realizing, slowly, that if you want a "os as a service" at least the foundation needs to be good, current windows is a huge mess and they cant just keep piling on this mess, at some point this could severely backfire, and the longer they wait the higher the risk is.

 

Yes, I know they dug themselves a big hole with "legacy support" shenanigans but they still realize this hole is a very dark and cold place to be… at least i would hope so!

[emosun]

6 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

Yes, I know they dug themselves a big hole with "legacy support" shenanigans but they still realize this hole is a very dark and cold place to be… at least i would hope so!

legacy support is the only reason people use windows.

if windows was overhauled and compatible with nothing , then nobody would use it. 

[manikyath]

1 minute ago, Mark Kaine said:

Nah, i think ms is realizing, slowly, that if you want a "os as a service" at least the foundation needs to be good, current windows is a huge mess and they cant just keep piling on this mess, at some point this could severely backfire, and the longer they wait the higher the risk is.

 

Yes, I know they dug themselves a big hole with "legacy support" shenanigans but they still realize this hole is a very dark and cold place to be… at least i would hope so!

the base for windows 10 is actually becoming quite good. there's lots of growing pains, but at this point windows 10 'can be' self-updating, self-maintaining, and self-repairing.

 

the biggest issue with windows 10 is MS is kicking themselves in the knees trying to do an update scheme they cannot keep up with themselves, as opposed to just releasing an update when they have something to release.

 

also this:

2 minutes ago, emosun said:

legacy support is the only reason people use windows.

if windows was overhauled and compatible with nothing , then nobody would use it. 

i like to add to that that MS is building IE compatibility mode into edge, because software developers in the enterprise space move slower than continental drift.

[Roswell]

One of the things I don’t miss from the PC side of things is Microsoft’s obsession with constant total OS overhauls. The havoc it wreaks on compatibility, adoption and user support is real dumb.

 

Microsoft, stop being stupid and iterate instead of revolutionize every 5 years. Every other major OS has figured this out, why haven’t you? 
 

If they insist on another complete overhaul, it’s time for them to suck it up and move on from the dumpster fire that is NT and adopt a more secure platform along with ANYTHING but NTFS. Maybe also stop throwing root access around to users like candy while you’re at it and create a real security policy.

 

None of this will change or come to fruition… but whatever. 
 

/rant

[Mark Kaine]

41 minutes ago, manikyath said:

the base for windows 10 is actually becoming quite good. there's lots of growing pains, but at this point windows 10 'can be' self-updating, self-maintaining, and self-repairing.

 

the biggest issue with windows 10 is MS is kicking themselves in the knees trying to do an update scheme they cannot keep up with themselves, as opposed to just releasing an update when they have something to release.

 

also this:

i like to add to that that MS is building IE compatibility mode into edge, because software developers in the enterprise space move slower than continental drift.

there are at least two solutions to the problem that people "need" legacy support (which in my personal experience i kinda doubt they really do, but ok)

Option A) keep windows 10 for those in need of certain functions - its not like ms wouldnt maintain tons of different windows already, just another one to the pile, make it "business only" if they go this route.

Option B) i already said this in a previou post, have "VMs" for every single Windows ever released (ideally) but dont call it VM, call it what it is, emulator, without any hardware locks, and make it optional so people only need to download what they need.

This would be the ideal option going forward into a more modern os, kinda obvious i would say.

 

[manikyath]

14 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

there are at least two solutions to the problem that people "need" legacy support (which in my personal experience i kinda doubt they really do, but ok)

Option A) keep windows 10 for those in need of certain functions - its not like ms wouldnt maintain tons of different windows already, just another one to the pile, make it "business only" if they go this route.

Option B) i already said this in a previou post, have "VMs" for every single Windows ever released (ideally) but dont call it VM, call it what it is, emulator, without any hardware locks, and make it optional so people only need to download what they need.

This would be the ideal option going forward into a more modern os, kinda obvious i would say.

 

most businesses cannot rely on VM's for software that was not specificly built for a recently released OS. it is a theory, it is not a feasible solution.

 

the fact that windows 10 can in some shape or form run software that hasnt seen developer hands in 10+ years is a key asset for just about every IT department having to make the choice between the solutions that are on the table. dealing with legacy shit is the most important thing when choosing an operating system, because the legacy stuff is also the stuff where you're basicly on your own trying to get it to run.

 

besides, running an old (unsupported?) OS within a VM to access old software *is* a security risk. no ifs or buts about it. it's about as bad as still running that old OS bare metal. why even have the box around the VM if most of your stuff is "legacy"?

 

source: dealing with this crap is my job. i regularly install software from 2007, because someone somewhere still has to migrate a database, and the show must go on.

[CerealExperimentsLain]

1 hour ago, manikyath said:

it's not gonna be windows 11, i'll tell you that much.

 

it's gonna be a windows 10 21H2 or 22H1 that'll be an absolute nightmare for every IT department everywhere.

 

as for why everyone is hyping it as "it may be windows 11".. obvious: windows 11 gets a lot more clicks than 21H2

Maybe instead of depreciating one configuration screen in favor of a new one, while keeping the old one, we'll get a THIRD screen to config the same thing!

[manikyath]

4 minutes ago, CerealExperimentsLain said:

Maybe instead of depreciating one configuration screen in favor of a new one, while keeping the old one, we'll get a THIRD screen to config the same thing!

i look forward to re-writing instructions for how to rename a pc once again. such brilliant engineering.

/s

[CerealExperimentsLain]

Just now, manikyath said:

i look forward to re-writing instructions for how to rename a pc once again. such brilliant engineering.

/s

I JUST wanna hold my mouse over the network icon in the system tray and see the link speed. Is that so much to ask?

[Mark Kaine]

45 minutes ago, manikyath said:

the fact that windows 10 can in some shape or form run software that hasnt seen developer hands in 10+ years is a key asset for just about every IT department having to make the choice between the solutions that are on the table. dealing with legacy shit is the most important thing when choosing an operating system, because the legacy stuff is also the stuff where you're basicly on your own trying to get it to run.

 

45 minutes ago, manikyath said:

it is a theory, it is not a feasible solution.

 

i mean that is why we have option A… theres no issue doing this ,people who want legacy support use that, everyone else gets a new os without all the dead weight.

 

i mean, the root of the issue youre describing is that windows does *not* really differentiat between  business users and "casual" users, gamers or your average soccer mom doesnt need all this crap, but gets it anyways, and frankly it clutters everything up, in addition to the incoherent UI and its just a pain to use, with very little actual "modern" features. 

 

 

33 minutes ago, CerealExperimentsLain said:

I JUST wanna hold my mouse over the network icon in the system tray and see the link speed. Is that so much to ask?

no, users who want modern features that make sense can use "rainmeter" homebrew software that uses approx ~68% CPU just to show you your current system (CPU) usage.

[Sweet Pea]

I imagine they are just getting rid of the number naming scheme. If I recall correctly, after Windows 10 released people asked if there would ever be another version after 10 and they hinted that it would be called 10 for a few years, and that they wanted to phase out numbers and just wanted it the OS to be called Windows and get rid of numbers for what I assume is PR. (People hated 8)

 

I’ll try to link an article, this was either early 2015 or 2016.

 

edit: Jerry Nixon

 

https://www.theverge.com/2015/5/7/8568473/windows-10-last-version-of-windows

 

Authors comment: Microsoft could opt for Windows 11 or Windows 12 in future, but if people upgrade to Windows 10 and the regular updates do the trick then everyone will just settle for just "Windows" without even worrying about the version number.

[Radium_Angel]

1 hour ago, emosun said:

legacy support is the only reason people use windows.

if windows was overhauled and compatible with nothing , then nobody would use it. 

What MS *could* do, is the following:

 

(1) Main Branch of Windows 10 (or whatever) same as it ever was

(2) Windows-Legacy-Free-11(tm) which is 64bit *only* and as free of old backwards compat as it can be.

 

Release both to the public and let them know that (1) will be phased out in 10 years.

 

Never happen of course, but we can dream...

[Vishera]

2 hours ago, emosun said:

it wouldnt be microsoft if they didnt make a massive mistake every few years. luckly I rode out windows 10 with 7 and avoided all the problems the majority of the world had to deal with it.

Microsoft has an obsession with how their OS looks,and prefers to focus on that rather than to focus on the important stuff,

Also the UI they are so obsessed with is really bad.

I prefer to use Windows 7,but i have it in dual-boot with Windows Server 2019 (Better than Windows 10 but still based on it).

[Donut417]

2 hours ago, Vishera said:

Microsoft has an obsession with how their OS looks,and prefers to focus on that rather than to focus on the important stuff,

Also the UI they are so obsessed with is really bad.

I prefer to use Windows 7,but i have it in dual-boot with Windows Server 2019 (Better than Windows 10 but still based on it).

I think what it is, they are trying to find ways to draw people back to the Windows world. Back in the day they had a 96% market share. Part of the reason the DOJ tried to take them down. However now its like in the lower 80% range. Why? Well now they have competition. Android, iOS, iPad OS, ChromeOS, and Linux. Back in the day it was pretty much MS and Apple with the Penguin being off in the corner somewhere. But now you have people who DONT own a computer. They do everything on their phone or tablet. As both of those are more portable. OR you have people who buy very cheap computers AKA Chromebook's. Which are heavily used in education. VALVE software threw its support behind Linux when it came to gaming. Granted you cant play every game, but many games run natively or work with Proton. 

 

Microsoft has tried to get in to the mobile market and filled. Why? Because Steve Ballmer didn't give a fuck about the mobile market until Apple and Google pushed out Palm and pushed out Blackberry. Thats why the Windows phone died. Microsoft has tried to push Windows on ARM. Surface RT failed straight up. The current tablets do offer some cool features like running x86 apps and they did just start supported x86-64 apps in December but its still emulation and its not perfect from what I have read. One of the issues with the original Surface RT was that Microsoft felt that their tablet and Desktop OS needed the same UI. Which is why everyone hated Windows 8. 

 

Microsoft is hoping that making the OS look cool will bring back the cool kids. Because they see Apple doing things like this. The thing is Apple users are like a cult. They will buy anything Apple no matter what. Basically in my opinion Microsoft lost its way. They need to cater to Enterprise users and gamers, because those are probably their two biggest customer groups. 

[Vishera]

42 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

One of the issues with the original Surface RT was that Microsoft felt that their tablet and Desktop OS needed the same UI. Which is why everyone hated Windows 8. 

Since day one Windows tablets are having the same UI as desktops,

Windows 7 tablets were totally a thing - And those were using X86 processors with a full fat Windows 7 with native support for both 32bit and 64bit applications.

There is the Samsung XE700T1 for example which with accessories can be a laptop as well.

[Donut417]

17 minutes ago, Vishera said:

Since day one Windows tablets are having the same UI as desktops,

Windows 7 tablets were totally a thing - And those were using X86 processors with a full fat Windows 7 with native support for both 32bit and 64bit applications.

There is the Samsung XE700T1 for example which with accessories can be a laptop as well.

If you read my comment you would have known I was talking about the Surface RT (an ARM tablet) and that piece of shit of a UI Microsoft tried to shoved down our throats during Windows 8. 

 

Honestly Windows XP or Windows 7 tablets were not really successful either. Didn't see them selling off the shelfs. They were few and far between. Those tablets also had the same issue as the current Intel based tablets and AMD base tablets. Battery life. ARM just does it better. 

 

In Microsoft mind ARM is where the future is for mobile devices. That why they keep trying and trying and trying. Maybe they will succeed some day. 

[Spindel]

Please make it so I don't have to either download a 3rd party app or dive in to the register to invert the scrolling direction of the mouse wheel. 

 

Oh and also please make it so I don't have to dive in to the registry again to invert the mouse wheel just because I changed the USB port the mouse is connected to. 

[SavageNeo]

15 hours ago, manikyath said:

an absolute nightmare for every IT department everywhere.

Can relate. our School has over 400 laptops and over 100 desktops that "needs" to be up to date. And I am part of the team that updates them  So i was like 200 laptops and 20 desktops in at 20H2 when 21H1 dropped. So yeah back to square 1 i guess