Windows 11

[Chris Pratt]

Windows 10 is actually really solid, and is honestly one of the best, if not the best versions of Windows they've ever made. Memories are short, and I find it hilarious that people are still singing the praises of Windows 7 as if it wasn't a huge sh*tshow when it released. A decade of updates, patches, and fixes makes for a stable OS in the end, no matter what floor it started from.

 

The fundamentals of Windows 10 are really strong. The things holding it back are an inconsistent UI, and update cadence that's probably not realistic. The next update is supposed to fix at least the former. The latter is easily solved by just holding off on updating for a bit, when each patch comes down the line.

[Vishera]

17 minutes ago, Chris Pratt said:

The fundamentals of Windows 10 are really strong.

Nope,there are serious bugs,especially this: https://forums.cdprojektred.com/index.php?threads/cyberpunk-restarting-pc.11048564/

I managed to fix the issue - in software...

Anyway the issue doesn't occur in Windows 7 but occurs in Windows 10 - I tested it on both.

[Chris Pratt]

39 minutes ago, Vishera said:

Nope,there are serious bugs,especially this: https://forums.cdprojektred.com/index.php?threads/cyberpunk-restarting-pc.11048564/

I managed to fix the issue - in software...

Anyway the issue doesn't occur in Windows 7 but occurs in Windows 10 - I tested it on both.

Yeah, because Windows is the issue there. First, problems with one game doesn't amount to "serious bugs". Second, it's Cyberpunk. That game is hot garbage on the programming front. It's a wonder it works anywhere at all.

 

[Lurick]

1 hour ago, Chris Pratt said:

Windows 10 is actually really solid, and is honestly one of the best, if not the best versions of Windows they've ever made. Memories are short, and I find it hilarious that people are still singing the praises of Windows 7 as if it wasn't a huge sh*tshow when it released. A decade of updates, patches, and fixes makes for a stable OS in the end, no matter what floor it started from.

 

The fundamentals of Windows 10 are really strong. The things holding it back are an inconsistent UI, and update cadence that's probably not realistic. The next update is supposed to fix at least the former. The latter is easily solved by just holding off on updating for a bit, when each patch comes down the line.

A lot of times when I see people who complain about issues it usually boils down to something like "well I ripped out half the OS and I'm triple booting it on blah blah blah" and they're a very edge/corner case and not what 99% of the users are doing but think that's how everyone should do it so they blow the issue up to be far bigger than it is.

[Chris Pratt]

Just now, Lurick said:

A lot of times when I see people who complain about issues it usually boils down to something like "well I ripped out half the OS and I'm triple booting it on blah blah blah" and they're a very edge/corner case and not whatn 99% of the users are doing but think that's how everyone should do it so they blow the issue up to be far bigger than it is.

Sure, and I'm by no means saying Windows 10 is perfect by any stretch of the imagination. However, when you look at all the garbage piles Microsoft has released previously on the world, Windows 10's issue are downright tame in comparison. Also, it's not like bugs or issues are unique to Windows. Both, Mac OS X and Linux have had their fair share of doozies.

[Lurick]

Just now, Chris Pratt said:

Sure, and I'm by no means saying Windows 10 is perfect by any stretch of the imagination. However, when you look at all the garbage piles Microsoft has released previously on the world, Windows 10's issue are downright tame in comparison. Also, it's not like bugs or issues are unique to Windows. Both, Mac OS X and Linux have had their fair share of doozies.

Yah, and I get people want to customize the OS or don't like the tracking and whatnot, that's fine but to expect Microsoft to test every possible iteration of registry settings people can come up with and expect everything to work without issue is just dumb, especially when it comes time to upgrade. That doesn't excuse some of the stuff Microsoft has failed to account for but in most cases it's not an issue for 99% of people because they aren't doing all these things.

[SolarNova]

Well , if ur in a position where W7 wont work for you anymore ..maybe due to new software blocking its use which i've seen happen in recent months.... then try W10 LTSC ..add Classic Shell to it for that W7 look.

 

W11 should basically be W10 without the bloatware/apps, and telemetry. With that I think most people will be happy, even those like myself who have stuck with W7.

 

Problem is telemetry ..and the bloatware makes MS money ..so removing them is ofc going to be out of the question. Why do u think they keep version like LTSC so quiet and hard to obtain ..its devoid of blotware/apps, and has reduced telemetry.

[GoodBytes]

To clarify things:

• "Windows 11" (not official name, we don't know what it will be called... it could be: Windows One Series X and S, for all we know).
• This update will be free and be delivered via Windows Update. In other words, if it were to be called "Windows 11", then it will be like iOS, or Android, or Chrome, or Edge, Firefox, etc. The number goes up, but it just a new version, delivered via the update system of the application (OS in this case). Microsoft did this with Windows 8.1.
• The core of the update is Project Sun Valley. which is a complete overall of the GUI design of Windows 10. In other words, Microsoft is finally fully implementing Fluent Design. 
• Windows 10 Insider are already using this coming up update (code name: Cobalt) without most of the Sun Valley Project GUI changes. We (as I am part of it), already enjoying the new (hugely improved) touch keyboard, rounded corners on some tooltips here and there, and some new icons. A few other things here and there. Stuff that the company really wanted people to test and get feedback, and some stuff that they could not hide. The OS has a lot of work done on the back as well. I also do know that this project is split into 2 phases already. End of this year (probably Oct or Nov, as usual when a new version of Windows 10 comes out), will be phase 1, and phase 2 will be later (all the remaining stuff that could not fit in), and depending on how it goes, might get phase 3.

Some people suggest that Microsoft should call it Windows 11, because it marks a big change, and can be used to turn the page on Windows 10 and create excitement. It should help push PC sales.

 

[GoodBytes]

13 hours ago, SolarNova said:

Well , if ur in a position where W7 wont work for you anymore ..maybe due to new software blocking its use which i've seen happen in recent months.... then try W10 LTSC ..add Classic Shell to it for that W7 look.

 

W11 should basically be W10 without the bloatware/apps, and telemetry. With that I think most people will be happy, even those like myself who have stuck with W7.

 

Problem is telemetry ..and the bloatware makes MS money ..so removing them is ofc going to be out of the question. Why do u think they keep version like LTSC so quiet and hard to obtain ..its devoid of blotware/apps, and has reduced telemetry.

There is no escape, in software development, even where I work, telemetry is king. It is everywhere, on every app you use on your phone, and many large apps people use on their PCs, nearly all websites (I am saying nearly all, because even small ones, implement Google analytics, to have a chance to appear on Google first page from a search result (aside from searching specifically for the website) even games have it (including single player only games), and Nvidia has it with its GeForce Experience app/driver.

 

It's everywhere, and it is the best way to know one user base, to know what to prioritize as feature or bug fix, and get valuable, real world data. Surveys are mostly worthless as you'll have very angry user or absolute fans that will fill it up, and nothing in between, in most cases. Communities are many and is difficult to have an eye on everything. Even if you focus on, say, your own user feedback from app reviews and forum, it doesn't encompass all your users. Example, Logitech, huge peripheral company... their forum is dead in comparison to their actual market. How does one get feedback? Telemetry!

 

Telemetry is integral to software dev, these days. It won't change until someone comes up with a better idea.

 

"Bloatware" is subjective. What you think is bloat might be useful for others.

 

As for LTSC, well, you need to pirate the software to have it, so it's not legit. In addition, it was designed for some companies with specific needs.

Your logic is as good as saying how IE11 is so good that Chrome, Firefox and the rest are all bloated, look how IE11 is light weight... Why do u think they keep IE11 so quiet and hard to obtain? 

 

Typically, LTSC is used in things that cannot be changed easily. For example, a framework used in software development, or a server OS. It's not meant for daily users who, in many cases, would benefit from faster releases. And if you think what I just said is silly, it is what broke Microsoft 3 year (target) life cycle of Windows, to now bi-yearly updates. People want frequent updates. Apple does this, Android users complain and is a selling point for Google own phones). It is just the facts. The specific needs of the Windows 10 LTSC is why it is missing functionalities that the normal versions of Windows 10 has.

 

[SansVarnic]

15 hours ago, Chris Pratt said:

Windows 10 is actually really solid, and is honestly one of the best, if not the best versions of Windows they've ever made. Memories are short, and I find it hilarious that people are still singing the praises of Windows 7 as if it wasn't a huge sh*tshow when it released. A decade of updates, patches, and fixes makes for a stable OS in the end, no matter what floor it started from.

I agree with this sentiment.

[Donut417]

15 hours ago, Chris Pratt said:

hilarious that people are still singing the praises of Windows 7 as if it wasn't a huge sh*tshow when it released

I upgraded from XP x64 to Windows 7 Home Premium x64 about a month after Windows 7 got released. Never had any issues. I might have just been lucky, but Windows 7 was just as rock solid as Windows XP was. XP x64 kinda sucked as it was slow, but 32bit XP was rock solid. But I would admit that XP wasn't great until probably SP2. 

 

While OS releases are generally a shit show. Microsoft forced Windows 10 on to some people. I recall people leaving their computers on and NOT giving permission to install it just to have them come back to their computer with Windows 10 installed. I think Microsoft got sued for this practice. Also, forcing updates? If people dont want to update their machines thats their business, let them choose their update schedule. Not to mention I think they are doing too much with these updates. You dont need to change the whole fucking OS with a single update and you dont need major updates twice a year. I mean shit, most of these major updates are like service packs. Service packs were never released twice a year. They need to slow the fuck down and concentrate on fucking quality control. 

 

[GoodBytes]

1 minute ago, Donut417 said:

While OS releases are generally a shit show. Microsoft forced Windows 10 on to some people. I recall people leaving their computers on and NOT giving permission to install it just to have them come back to their computer with Windows 10 installed.

Ah yes, old Microsoft culture with its rushed goals. Glad the new CEO is trying to change this.

 

1 minute ago, Donut417 said:

Also, forcing updates? If people dont want to update their machines thats their business, let them choose their update schedule.

Yes, you do. Very much so. Microsoft got massively bad rep, because of that. Back in the days, the number of zombie computers were huge (computers that seem to operate fine, but ready to be controlled to be used as a VPN for attacks or partake in DDoS attacks). Computers were being affected by discovered security holes which has been fixed a long time ago, but those computers aren't being updated. Even malware removal tools that Microsoft distributed serve little purpose as those machines has Windows Update disabled. So now, like your phone (assuming you have a manufacture that cares about its users by providing updated), its forced update.

 

 

1 minute ago, Donut417 said:

Not to mention I think they are doing too much with these updates. You dont need to change the whole fucking OS with a single update and you dont need major updates twice a year.

You have updated every Tuesday of the month since... like.. ever.... In fact, it's called Patch Tuesday, and it has a whole wiki article on it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patch_Tuesday

 

This has been the norm, and as the Wiki article indicated, Microsoft isn't alone.

 

As for version releases, it has been set twice a year, and while IT at first panic, the industry has adapted. Microsoft did tweak things in its update model delivery with companies over the time, fine tuning the process, giving time for IT dept to be able to run their tests and give a final chance for hardware manufacture to ensure that their drivers are working, and that is about it. Today, its a none-issue.

 

Full OS update are delivered as such because, it forced a clean install of Windows. If you had a virus or malware that modified system files, well guess what, beside a re-install of the OS, as your anti-virus can't fix system files, you have Windows version update to replace all these files. Any other issues that one faces  can be fixed that way as well.

 

That said, recently, Microsoft is taking a different approach to updates, and that is gradual release of a new version. What I mean, is that we are getting more than the documented updates months in advance in parts each time, and when the update is release, you just download anything missing and latest versions of files, and then a flag engages the switch over. It's the closest to how phones and tablet work. They work via partition switching, mainly... this is basically the next best thing of what is doable the PC space with the billion'th possible configurations (including system with MBR drive who are limited to 4 partitions, where 3 of them is taking by the OS.. make that 4 if you have the image backup by the OEM)

 

 

1 minute ago, Donut417 said:

I mean shit, most of these major updates are like service packs. Service packs were never released twice a year. They need to slow the fuck down and concentrate on fucking quality control. 

 

You are the only one I know that complains about updates. All your software and devices are getting more updates than this.

[Donut417]

1 minute ago, GoodBytes said:

You have updated every Tuesday of the month since.

Im not talking security updates. Im talking these damned creator updates twice a year. Those are the updates that fuck shit up. Standard bug fixes and security updates rarely cause issues. Ive had at least two creators updates cause issues with my old gaming rig. The second one made the machine unusable. As a result I stuck Linux on it and used it for Plex. Linux had no issues running on the hardware, but Windows 10 did. While I love building computers, I dont like being forced to update hardware that honestly was still doing a fine job. 

 

Also no I dont update every Tuesday. Why? Its called a data cap. At least the metered connection setting works in Windows. 

 

[GoodBytes]

38 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Im not talking security updates. Im talking these damned creator updates twice a year. Those are the updates that fuck shit up. Standard bug fixes and security updates rarely cause issues. Ive had at least two creators updates cause issues with my old gaming rig. The second one made the machine unusable. As a result I stuck Linux on it and used it for Plex. Linux had no issues running on the hardware, but Windows 10 did. While I love building computers, I dont like being forced to update hardware that honestly was still doing a fine job. 

The majority of people don't have problems.

Windows 10 runs perfectly well on my ~12 year old PC, and so does on an even older one (Core 2 Duo), and works great on much newer systems.

Your issue isn't Windows related.

 

Quote

Also no I dont update every Tuesday. Why? Its called a data cap. At least the metered connection setting works in Windows. 

I had 20GB data caps, in the past, and I never had issues passing it due Windows updates, SP included. What is your data cap?

[Donut417]

7 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

our issue isn't Windows related.

Its not hardware related because the same hardware runs on Linux fine, NO ISSUES. In fact I had issues with Windows 10 day one, from the first time I did the in place update. Mind you the Windows 7 install on that machine was less than 30 days old. Ive had issues thru multiple reinstalls of the OS. Again Ubuntu works 100% fine, without issue. 

 

7 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

What is your data cap?

1.2 TB. We are cord trimmers. We have had months when we were pretty close. So I update my system when I feel like it. 

[Mark Kaine]

19 hours ago, Chris Pratt said:

I find it hilarious that people are still singing the praises of Windows 7 as if it wasn't a huge sh*tshow when it released. A decade of updates, patches, and fixes makes for a stable OS in the end, no matter what floor it started from.

 

The fundamentals of Windows 10 are really strong. The things holding it back are an inconsistent UI, and update cadence that's probably not realistic. The next update is supposed to fix at least the former.

Windows 10 is the exact opposite of 7 then, it was really good out of the gate but now after all this patching its an unrepairable mess.

 

This is the exact problem they just keep piling up, every "fix" introduces more errors…

 

Already said it i guess, but at some point people will have enough, and i think ms is aware of that (at least Id hope so for their own sake)

 

[SolarNova]

11 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

As for LTSC, well, you need to pirate the software to have it, so it's not legit

You can purchase LTSC legally at full price for around $350 iirc .. Its just a right PITA with the licensing agreement for LTSC.

Alternatively u can purchase license keys the same way many people get 'cheap' keys , from various fully legit, and 'grey market' sites, purely to activate the OS with no concern for the official 10year support. Its just that u need to specifically search for it, and few people know of its existence.

 

The ISO itself can be harder to find as they are sourced from third party vendors along with the fully priced license, not the MS site itself like other versions, however theres nothing stopping one from searching around tech forums for a untouched ISO. Its the licensing thats the legal issue, not the ISO itself.

[GoodBytes]

25 minutes ago, SolarNova said:

You can purchase LTSC legally at full price for around $350 iirc .. Its just a right PITA with the licensing agreement for LTSC.

You need Windows Server. This is the LTSC is the enterprise edition, and should be connected to a Windows Server system.

 

25 minutes ago, SolarNova said:

Alternatively u can purchase license keys the same way many people get 'cheap' keys , from various fully legit, and 'grey market' sites, purely to activate the OS with no concern for the official 10year support. Its just that u need to specifically search for it, and few people know of its existence.

You still need Windows Server