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Fujitsu 'Horizon' software implicated in largest miscarriage of justice in UK History

LordVetinari
By LordVetinari
in Tech News
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Posted

There maybe some question over whether this qualifies as Tech news but as the software in question and the defence of it by Fujitsu was central to the now unsafe convictions I think it qualifies.  

 

Summary

 

Between 2000 and 2014, the Post Office prosecuted 736 sub-postmasters and sub-postmistresses - an average of one a week - based on information from a recently installed computer system called Horizon. Some went to prison following convictions for false accounting and theft, many were financially ruined and have described being shunned by their communities. 555 of these bought a successful civil prosecution against the PO in 2019. An additional 2400 individuals have claimed against a fund set up by the PO to reimburse those affected. 

 

Following the successful Civil action more cases were brought forward to the Criminal Cases Review Commission (CCRC), an independent body which investigates suspected miscarriages of justice. So far, it has referred 51 cases back to the courts. To date, six people's convictions have been overturned. Another 42 cases were heard in one hearing at the Court of Appeal in March. Of these, 39 were unopposed by the Post Office on at least one count - generally that the person did not receive a fair trial.

 

With these 39 convictions quashed, it becomes the most widespread, known, miscarriage of justice in the UK.

 

The computer system designed by Fujitsu had numerous bugs and flaws but these were covered up even though the data was used to convict innocent people. The latest High Court Judgement has the PO and Fujitsu very busy pointing the finger at each other. 

 

The head of the PO at the time (and who received Honours for her service to the PO) Responded to the initial inquiry: 

Quote

"The message that the board and I were consistently given by Fujitsu, from the highest levels of the company, was that while, like any IT system, Horizon was not perfect and had a limited life-span, it was fundamentally sound,” she wrote.

“I believed that it was reasonable for the board to rely on these assurances: Fujitsu was a respected global IT company, it had many other governmental and high-profile customers, and from my experience of working with Fujitsu, it appeared to be well-led and professional"

  

Senior VP Rob Putland at Fjuitsu however responded:

.

Quote

He asked for his response to High Court Judge Peter Fraser’s view that the court case offered “a very one-sided picture” of Horizon which omitted any reference to documents that criticised or demonstrated deficiencies with Horizon. 

 

In his response to Jones’ questions, Putland blamed the Post Office for this. “Fujitsu was not a party to the litigation. All decisions relating to the prosecution of sub-postmasters and the conduct of the Bates litigation were made by the Post Office,” he said.

 

“While Fujitsu employees gave evidence, it was the Post Office who determined all aspects of its case including the choice of witnesses, the nature of their evidence and the associated documents.

“Nonetheless, we take Justice Fraser’s criticisms extremely seriously and we have now stopped the provision of any new witness evidence to the Post Office,” added Putland.

 

Witnesses provided by Fujitsu to the original convictions (now described as "an affront to the public conscience") are being investigated for perjury. 

 

Quotes

 

Quote

Horizon was introduced into the Post Office network from 1999. The system, developed by the Japanese company Fujitsu, was used for tasks such as transactions, accounting and stocktaking.

 

Sub-postmasters complained about bugs in the system after it reported shortfalls, some of which amounted to many thousands of pounds.

 

In December 2019, at the end of a long-running series of civil cases, the Post Office agreed to settle with 555 claimants. 

A few days later, a High Court judgement said that the Horizon system was not "remotely robust" for the first 10 years of its use, and still had problems after that.

 

The judge said the system contained "bugs, errors and defects", and that there was a "material risk" that shortfalls in branch accounts were caused by the system.

Quote

So far, nobody at the Post Office or Fujitsu has been held accountable, although the High Court judge said he would refer Fujitsu to the Director of Public Prosecutions for possible further action because he had "grave concerns" about the evidence of the company's employees. 

 

My thoughts

 

This is obviously huge for the English Justice System, however it also demonstrates that tech companies can get it very very wrong. Fundamentally this boils down to both the PO and Fujitsu not being able to admit that the system could even be flawed, instead choosing to double down on their original statements that the system was fine by prosecuting their staff.  

 

What amazes me is that at seemingly no point did someone look at the number of individuals being implicated and just wonder if the software was wrong rather than assuming that many of its staff were being deliberately fraudulent. 

 

Sources

Post Office scandal: What the Horizon saga is all about - BBC News

Postmasters were prosecuted using unreliable evidence - BBC News

Former Post Office CEO and Fujitsu play the blame game in Horizon IT scandal (computerweekly.com) - this source contains a huge number of subsidiary sources.  

Criminal Courts Review Commission findings in Post Office computer case raise further enquiries (computerweekly.com)

 

Given that this has been going on for 20 years there are more than a few sources but the above give a good overview. 

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Posted

These people went through a lot, just for doing their jobs. They have my utmost respect for being able to cope with this for as long as they were forced to. I can't even begin to fathom the mental and financial implications that this would have had on these people.

 

There are many unanswered questions, not just in terms of the justice system, but also in terms of the accountability of the firms behind these insanely consequential errors.

 

(I see this as tech news, they were implicated because of dodgy software and the company's unwillingness to admit they were wrong.)

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30 minutes ago, AMD A10-9600P said:

There are many unanswered questions, not just in terms of the justice system, but also in terms of the accountability of the firms behind these insanely consequential errors.

 

I agree - its crazy to me that back in 2015 a forensic accountant (Second Sight) found significant failings in the software, yet the PO (undoubtedly backed by Fujitsu) doubled down again to rubbish the report. 

 

This thing has a long and chequered history. 

 

The Fujitsu responses are less than impressive - I am a master of the teflon shoulder but this really takes the biscuit: 

https://committees.parliament.uk/publications/1620/documents/15461/default/

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As someone who works in accounts it astounds me that this many people could be affected and no one double-checked the figures. There would be other records to sense check the system against. 

 

I guess this is a result of everyone keeping their heads down for the sake of their careers. 

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9 minutes ago, Monkey Dust said:

As someone who works in accounts it astounds me that this many people could be affected and no one double-checked the figures. There would be other records to sense check the system against.

In a cruel irony a lot of the prosecutions occurred after the sub postmasters themselves reported the errors as it was their own records they were checking against. 

 

But no, the software was always right...

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1 hour ago, LordVetinari said:

There maybe some question over whether this qualifies as Tech news but as the software in question and the defence of it by Fujitsu was central to the now unsafe convictions I think it qualifies.  

 

Summary

 

Between 2000 and 2014, the Post Office prosecuted 736 sub-postmasters and sub-postmistresses - an average of one a week - based on information from a recently installed computer system called Horizon. Some went to prison following convictions for false accounting and theft, many were financially ruined and have described being shunned by their communities. 555 of these bought a successful civil prosecution against the PO in 2019. An additional 2400 individuals have claimed against a fund set up by the PO to reimburse those affected. 

 

Following the successful Civil action more cases were brought forward to the Criminal Cases Review Commission (CCRC), an independent body which investigates suspected miscarriages of justice. So far, it has referred 51 cases back to the courts. To date, six people's convictions have been overturned. Another 42 cases were heard in one hearing at the Court of Appeal in March. Of these, 39 were unopposed by the Post Office on at least one count - generally that the person did not receive a fair trial.

 

With these 39 convictions quashed, it becomes the most widespread, known, miscarriage of justice in the UK.

 

The computer system designed by Fujitsu had numerous bugs and flaws but these were covered up even though the data was used to convict innocent people. The latest High Court Judgement has the PO and Fujitsu very busy pointing the finger at each other. 

 

The head of the PO at the time (and who received Honours for her service to the PO) Responded to the initial inquiry: 

  

Senior VP Rob Putland at Fjuitsu however responded:

.

 

Witnesses provided by Fujitsu to the original convictions (now described as "an affront to the public conscience") are being investigated for perjury. 

 

Quotes

 

 

My thoughts

 

This is obviously huge for the English Justice System, however it also demonstrates that tech companies can get it very very wrong. Fundamentally this boils down to both the PO and Fujitsu not being able to admit that the system could even be flawed, instead choosing to double down on their original statements that the system was fine by prosecuting their staff.  

 

What amazes me is that at seemingly no point did someone look at the number of individuals being implicated and just wonder if the software was wrong rather than assuming that many of its staff were being deliberately fraudulent. 

 

Sources

Post Office scandal: What the Horizon saga is all about - BBC News

Postmasters were prosecuted using unreliable evidence - BBC News

Former Post Office CEO and Fujitsu play the blame game in Horizon IT scandal (computerweekly.com) - this source contains a huge number of subsidiary sources.  

Criminal Courts Review Commission findings in Post Office computer case raise further enquiries (computerweekly.com)

 

Given that this has been going on for 20 years there are more than a few sources but the above give a good overview. 

And that kids, is why we never ignore gcc warnings.

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1 hour ago, Monkey Dust said:

As someone who works in accounts it astounds me that this many people could be affected and no one double-checked the figures. There would be other records to sense check the system against. 

 

The problem seems to be all those other records where made by the people under suspicion. This is a massive screwup though, weather anything will come of it vis a vis Fujitsu is going to depend heavily on who was responsible and where they're living. If they're living where we can't extradite them it's going to be near impossible to do anything.

 

The Post Office is an even worse mess because they really could have genuinely trusted expert advice from the company providing the software about it's reliability. That would clear them, but proving either way conclusively could be a mess.

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50 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Flawed business logic code will compile without any warnings at all. Zero compile warnings doesn't mean there are no bugs in the software.

 

"It did exactly what we told it to do sir. Unfortunately what we told it to do was wrong."

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6 hours ago, RejZoR said:

Wow, that's pretty screwed up that people not only lost jobs but got prosecuted because software was broken.

Let us not forget the hundreds of people who died because of some software bugs in Boeings code

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Posted
1 minute ago, BuckGup said:

Let us not forget the hundreds of people who died because of some software bugs in Boeings code

 

Which one was that?

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Posted
7 minutes ago, CarlBar said:

 

Which one was that?

https://www.npr.org/2020/03/09/813740173/ethiopian-officials-say-faulty-boeing-software-played-role-in-deadly-737-max-cra

https://abcnews.go.com/US/boeing-737-maxs-flawed-flight-control-system-led/story?id=74321424

https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/6/21126364/boeing-737-max-software-glitch-flaw-problem

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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̌̅̒̾̈́̆͌̌̾̎̽̐̅̏́̈̔͛̀̋̃͊̒̓͗͒̑͒̃͂̌̄̇̑̇͛̆̾͛̒̇̍̒̓̀̈́̄̐͂̍͊͗̎̔͌͛̂̏̉̊̎͗͊͒̂̈̽̊́̔̊̃͑̈́̑̌̋̓̅̔́́͒̄̈́̈̂͐̈̅̈̓͌̓͊́̆͌̉͐̊̉͛̓̏̓̅̈́͂̉̒̇̉̆̀̍̄̇͆͛̏̉̑̃̓͂́͋̃̆̒͋̓͊̄́̓̕̕̕̚͘͘͘̚̕̚͘̕̕͜͜͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͠ͅS̷̢̨̧̢̡̨̢̨̢̨̧̧̨̧͚̱̪͇̱̮̪̮̦̝͖̜͙̘̪̘̟̱͇͎̻̪͚̩͍̠̹̮͚̦̝̤͖̙͔͚̙̺̩̥̻͈̺̦͕͈̹̳̖͓̜͚̜̭͉͇͖̟͔͕̹̯̬͍̱̫̮͓̙͇̗̙̼͚̪͇̦̗̜̼̠͈̩̠͉͉̘̱̯̪̟͕̘͖̝͇̼͕̳̻̜͖̜͇̣̠̹̬̗̝͓̖͚̺̫͛̉̅̐̕͘͜͜͜͜ͅͅͅ.̶̨̢̢̨̢̨̢̛̻͙̜̼̮̝̙̣̘̗̪̜̬̳̫̙̮̣̹̥̲̥͇͈̮̟͉̰̮̪̲̗̳̰̫̙͍̦̘̠̗̥̮̹̤̼̼̩͕͉͕͇͙̯̫̩̦̟̦̹͈͔̱̝͈̤͓̻̟̮̱͖̟̹̝͉̰͊̓̏̇͂̅̀̌͑̿͆̿̿͗̽̌̈́̉̂̀̒̊̿͆̃̄͑͆̃̇͒̀͐̍̅̃̍̈́̃̕͘͜͜͝͠͠z̴̢̢̡̧̢̢̧̢̨̡̨̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̲͚̠̜̮̠̜̞̤̺͈̘͍̻̫͖̣̥̗̙̳͓͙̫̫͖͍͇̬̲̳̭̘̮̤̬̖̼͎̬̯̼̮͔̭̠͎͓̼̖̟͈͓̦̩̦̳̙̮̗̮̩͙͓̮̰̜͎̺̞̝̪͎̯̜͈͇̪̙͎̩͖̭̟͎̲̩͔͓͈͌́̿͐̍̓͗͑̒̈́̎͂̋͂̀͂̑͂͊͆̍͛̄̃͌͗̌́̈̊́́̅͗̉͛͌͋̂̋̇̅̔̇͊͑͆̐̇͊͋̄̈́͆̍̋̏͑̓̈́̏̀͒̂̔̄̅̇̌̀̈́̿̽̋͐̾̆͆͆̈̌̿̈́̎͌̊̓̒͐̾̇̈́̍͛̅͌̽́̏͆̉́̉̓̅́͂͛̄̆͌̈́̇͐̒̿̾͌͊͗̀͑̃̊̓̈̈́̊͒̒̏̿́͑̄̑͋̀̽̀̔̀̎̄͑̌̔́̉̐͛̓̐̅́̒̎̈͆̀̍̾̀͂̄̈́̈́̈́̑̏̈́̐̽̐́̏̂̐̔̓̉̈́͂̕̚̕͘͘̚͘̚̕̚̚̚͘̕̕̕͜͜͝͠͠͝͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅī̸̧̧̧̡̨̨̢̨̛̛̘͓̼̰̰̮̗̰͚̙̥̣͍̦̺͈̣̻͇̱͔̰͈͓͖͈̻̲̫̪̲͈̜̲̬̖̻̰̦̰͙̤̘̝̦̟͈̭̱̮̠͍̖̲͉̫͔͖͔͈̻̖̝͎̖͕͔̣͈̤̗̱̀̅̃̈́͌̿̏͋̊̇̂̀̀̒̉̄̈́͋͌̽́̈́̓̑̈̀̍͗͜͜͠͠ͅp̴̢̢̧̨̡̡̨̢̨̢̢̢̨̡̛̛͕̩͕̟̫̝͈̖̟̣̲̖̭̙͇̟̗͖͎̹͇̘̰̗̝̹̤̺͉͎̙̝̟͙͚̦͚͖̜̫̰͖̼̤̥̤̹̖͉͚̺̥̮̮̫͖͍̼̰̭̤̲͔̩̯̣͖̻͇̞̳̬͉̣̖̥̣͓̤͔̪̙͎̰̬͚̣̭̞̬͎̼͉͓̮͙͕̗̦̞̥̮̘̻͎̭̼͚͎͈͇̥̗͖̫̮̤̦͙̭͎̝͖̣̰̱̩͎̩͎̘͇̟̠̱̬͈̗͍̦̘̱̰̤̱̘̫̫̮̥͕͉̥̜̯͖̖͍̮̼̲͓̤̮͈̤͓̭̝̟̲̲̳̟̠͉̙̻͕͙̞͔̖͈̱̞͓͔̬̮͎̙̭͎̩̟̖͚̆͐̅͆̿͐̄̓̀̇̂̊̃̂̄̊̀͐̍̌̅͌̆͊̆̓́̄́̃̆͗͊́̓̀͑͐̐̇͐̍́̓̈́̓̑̈̈́̽͂́̑͒͐͋̊͊̇̇̆̑̃̈́̎͛̎̓͊͛̐̾́̀͌̐̈́͛̃̂̈̿̽̇̋̍͒̍͗̈͘̚̚͘̚͘͘͜͜͜͜͜͜͠͠͝͝ͅͅͅ☻♥■∞{╚mYÄÜXτ╕○\╚Θº£¥ΘBM@Q05♠{{↨↨▬§¶‼↕◄►☼1♦  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2 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

https://www.npr.org/2020/03/09/813740173/ethiopian-officials-say-faulty-boeing-software-played-role-in-deadly-737-max-cra

https://abcnews.go.com/US/boeing-737-maxs-flawed-flight-control-system-led/story?id=74321424

https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/6/21126364/boeing-737-max-software-glitch-flaw-problem

 

Do some more digging. The software was at fault only in so much as it did what it was designed to do in response to faulty sensor readings. The issues boiled down to insufficient redundancy in the sensors and insufficient training on the new MACS, (some of which falls on the airlines, Boeing informed them of the proper procedure to disengage it, but not all airlines passed it on to the pilots). Boeing made some pretty major screw ups, but there where issues at the airlines too, regulatory agencies also deserve some blame for not adequately looking into the MAX and thus not realising somthing had changed enough to warrant more work.

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The thing that confuses me is how this didn't end up in massive litigation much earlier. Is it maybe just a UK Court System issue, as much as anything else? Or is the Post Service courts done differently there? (Postal services are there own little worlds with histories going back centuries, so there could be oddities involved that aren't noticeable to a non-resident.) Because the first time the system dinged an fastidious record-keeper, I'd expect the case to be drug through every court in the land.

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2 hours ago, BuckGup said:

Let us not forget the hundreds of people who died because of some software bugs in Boeings code

eh thats a mix of bad software and pilots not having any under pressure training. there is a reason you rarely see US pilots crash, its because for a long time most were ex military pilots which means they got good at deal with situations not going right.

Airbus has had bad software too there was at least a few crashes in the 90s

No one tested this before it was excepted? really???? wtf

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11 hours ago, leadeater said:

Flawed business logic code will compile without any warnings at all. Zero compile warnings doesn't mean there are no bugs in the software.

Geez, I was joking. No need to take it so seriously

 

I agree with you though

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10 hours ago, CarlBar said:

 

"It did exactly what we told it to do sir. Unfortunately what we told it to do was wrong."

-Every enterprise programmer.

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3 minutes ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

Geez, I was joking. No need to take it so seriously

 

I agree with you though

I know, just also amusing the when it comes to programing there is also the existence of valid stupidity. Computers will do anything if instructed correctly, no matter how stupid lol.

 

Edit: The move Office Space is a great example of that, "It's only fractions of cents"......."Oh god what have we done!"

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2 minutes ago, leadeater said:

I know, just also amusing the when it comes to programing there is also the existence of valid stupidity. Computers will do anything if instructed correctly, no matter how stupid lol.

And that's why my robot army, which I am building to overrun northnkorea to steal redstar os is still 20 years away.

 

 

PS: Don't ask why I want such an army.

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8 hours ago, Taf the Ghost said:

The thing that confuses me is how this didn't end up in massive litigation much earlier. Is it maybe just a UK Court System issue, as much as anything else? Or is the Post Service courts done differently there? (Postal services are there own little worlds with histories going back centuries, so there could be oddities involved that aren't noticeable to a non-resident.) Because the first time the system dinged an fastidious record-keeper, I'd expect the case to be drug through every court in the land.

The UK court system (like most) is slow and appeals take time, money and the will to take it to the end. Plus the convictions were backed by expert witnesses from Fujitsu and bought by the Post Office - most lawyers wouldn't touch it. 

 

More than a few caught up just financially settled with the PO to repay the 'stolen' money and were fired. I totally see how in a lot of cases that was the easier option.  

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My father was head of Post Office counters at the time this software was being evaluated.  He said at the time it would lead to exactly what happened but was ignored. The reason being it was a mate of the directors and the MPs on the commissioning committee that was selling them the software. It all stinks but happens all the time. Especially in nationalised businesses like the post office was when Horizon was introduced.  

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N E V E R

 

trust software with the only copy of legally relevant information

Don't ask to ask, just ask... please 🤨

sudo chmod -R 000 /*

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24 minutes ago, Sauron said:

N E V E R

 

trust software with the only copy of legally relevant information

N E V E R trust software period. I'm a dev and we do sketchy thing.

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and they didnt suspect anything was wrong with the software when they are having to prosecute one postmaster per week?

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