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Gaming Performance Tested On 'Worn Out' RTX 2080 Ti Mining Card

K E N N Y
By K E N N Y
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1 hour ago, SingleTMat said:

I'd like to see them test again after the thermals have been cleaned up. Assuming they didn't take any damage over the time during mining, they should still perform the same as when they were new, shouldn't they?

 

Yes they should. They aren't 'worn' in the same sense a car gets a worn out.

 

The GPU would just outright fail due to blown capacitors.

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IMO threads like this do nothing but spread misinformation and incite bickering and should be deleted 

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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1 hour ago, SingleTMat said:

I wonder what people would consider the best practice for making a card that is used heavily or used for mining to last the longest. Like, how often should you redo thermals and whatnot. Seems like it would be a hard thing to even test due to time limitations and product variations.

You know no miner is going to do anything to their rig once it's setup. Every second it's not mining is potential money lost.

 

The far, far, more likely thing is that they will replace the cards the second there is no profit to be had, and considering that idiots are running these making less than $400/day, there really is no point to even setting up a mining rig that won't get you half way there. 

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56 minutes ago, Kisai said:

The far, far, more likely thing is that they will replace the cards the second there is no profit to be had, and considering that idiots are running these making less than $400/day, there really is no point to even setting up a mining rig that won't get you half way there. 

im sorry... but in what world does making $400 a day not make sense for anyone?

unless im reading this sentence wrong... i must be

-sigh- feeling like I'm being too negative lately

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Posted

 

59 minutes ago, Kisai said:

You know no miner is going to do anything to their rig once it's setup. Every second it's not mining is potential money lost.

 

The far, far, more likely thing is that they will replace the cards the second there is no profit to be had, and considering that idiots are running these making less than $400/day, there really is no point to even setting up a mining rig that won't get you half way there. 

 

Not every miner is doing a ghetto max-efficiency, minimum maintenance job with a farm of GPU's.  My desktop is mining right now and I just pause it when I'm playing games.  I don't care that I "lost" $2 while I was gaming because without mining it was going to be empty cycles anyways.

Workstation:  13700k @ 5.5Ghz || Gigabyte Z790 Ultra || MSI Gaming Trio 4090 Shunt || TeamGroup DDR5-7800 @ 7000 || Corsair AX1500i@240V || whole-house loop.

LANRig/GuestGamingBox: 9900nonK || Gigabyte Z390 Master || ASUS TUF 3090 650W shunt || Corsair SF600 || CPU+GPU watercooled 280 rad pull only || whole-house loop.

Server Router (Untangle): 13600k @ Stock || ASRock Z690 ITX || All 10Gbe || 2x8GB 3200 || PicoPSU 150W 24pin + AX1200i on CPU|| whole-house loop

Server Compute/Storage: 10850K @ 5.1Ghz || Gigabyte Z490 Ultra || EVGA FTW3 3090 1000W || LSI 9280i-24 port || 4TB Samsung 860 Evo, 5x10TB Seagate Enterprise Raid 6, 4x8TB Seagate Archive Backup ||  whole-house loop.

Laptop: HP Elitebook 840 G8 (Intel 1185G7) + 3080Ti Thunderbolt Dock, Razer Blade Stealth 13" 2017 (Intel 8550U)

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Did the cards have a messed up vbios? I know a lot of miners flash custom vbios on their cards to get better performance per watt, and they usually don't care enough about the poor sod buying it to flash the real vbios back onto it. Some neanderthal on eBay that I tried to buy an RX 580 from told me he didn't even bother to backup the vbios that came with the card lol

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47 minutes ago, SeriousDad69 said:

Did the cards have a messed up vbios? I know a lot of miners flash custom vbios on their cards to get better performance per watt, and they usually don't care enough about the poor sod buying it to flash the real vbios back onto it. Some neanderthal on eBay that I tried to buy an RX 580 from told me he didn't even bother to backup the vbios that came with the card lol

Nvidia cards didn't need bios modding

But that'll soon change I reckon

-sigh- feeling like I'm being too negative lately

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4 hours ago, Moonzy said:

im sorry... but in what world does making $400 a day not make sense for anyone?

unless im reading this sentence wrong... i must be

None of the nVidia GPU's earn more than $13/day a piece. You can deliver a single pizza and earn more in a day. Also the price of Ethereum crashed like 25% yesterday. 

 

A living wage is $20 x 8 hours a day = $160. 40 hours per week x $20 = $800 is the bare minimum to hit that where you don't need a pizza job. There are 168 hours in a week. So assuming you use the computer for nothing but mining, you might make $70 per week. So how many GPU's do you need before you theoretically don't need to prioritize a real job? Likely 12 $2500 CPU's.

 

So figure it out.

3090 ($3800/ea * 13)= $12.97/ea , input cost is $49400 to make $168.61/day, Recovery time 293 days.

3080 ($3500/ea *13) = $12.84/ea, input cost is $45500 to make $166.92/day, Recovery time 273 days.

3070 ($1400/ea * 25 ) = $6.49/ea, input cost is $35000 to make $162.25/day, Recovery time 215 days.

3060Ti ($1500/ea * 25) = $6.58/ea, input cost is $37500 to make $164.5/day, Recovery time 228 days.

3060 ($____/ea * 46) = 3.54/ea, input cost is unknown, to make $162.84, Recovery ?.

 

A 2080Ti is the same rate as a 3070. So the most efficient card in that list is the 3060Ti, which is at a rate equal or better than the 3070. This excludes any efficiency gains or losses from any other hardware.

 

$160/day = $41600/yr. So assuming you didn't pay taxes, rent/mortgage or eat any food, you would have to sink likely 2 years salary at existing scalper prices, and would only recover that cost after 9 months. That's an unrealistic expectation.

 

So no, I think people spending $2500+ on a GPU now to make $10/day are fools who are parting with their money.

 

Let's re-roll the numbers with the original MSRP:

3090 ($1500/ea * 13)= $12.97/ea , input cost is $19500 to make $168.61/day, Recovery time 116 days.

3080 ($700/ea *13) = $12.84/ea, input cost is $9100 to make $166.92/day, Recovery time 55 days.

3070 ($500/ea * 25 ) = $6.49/ea, input cost is $12500 to make $162.25/day, Recovery time 77 days.

3060Ti ($400/ea * 25) = $6.58/ea, input cost is $10000 to make $164.5/day, Recovery time 61 days.

3060 ($____/ea * 46) = 3.54/ea, input cost is unknown, to make $162.84, Recovery ?.

 

So yeah, maybe at those prices and 3080 might look cost effective to mine when you're not using the computer for anything else. The rest of those? Definitely not worth it, particularly the 3090. That likely explains the scalper price differential on eBay. The 3080/70/60ti aren't entirely unreasonable, but the amount of space wasted along with ewaste, waste heat, generated on the cheaper cards is ridiculous.

 

At the original price, dumping $10,000 on GPU's doesn't look smart, but if you don't need a day job after that point, that's a rather attractive option. Dumping $45,500 though, no, that's insanity.

 

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The experiment forgot a test group: Cards that were powered on in machines for the 1.5 years, but not utilized.

Besides the lack of a statistically significant number of cards, or a proper testing methodology, I strongly suspect you could see something close to a 10% performance drop just from having the thing powered on (even if doing nothing) for 1.5 years, but I have neither the money nor the time to prove this.

ENCRYPTION IS NOT A CRIME

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1 hour ago, Kisai said:

A living wage is $20 x 8 hours a day = $160. 40 hours per week x $20 = $800 is the bare minimum to hit that where you don't need a pizza job. There are 168 hours in a week. So assuming you use the computer for nothing but mining, you might make $70 per week. So how many GPU's do you need before you theoretically don't need to prioritize a real job? Likely 12 $2500 CPU's.

I'm not sure why the goal is to not have to work? Any extra income is nice and for these it's actually not too insignificant, and if it means the card would eventually have cost net $0 or better then that's a very high incentive to mine, even if that payback is 3 months or 2 years. At the end of it you have the money to upgrade, keep the GPU you have or sell it and mine on the new one and/or the old one.

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2 hours ago, leadeater said:

I'm not sure why the goal is to not have to work? Any extra income is nice and for these it's actually not too insignificant, and if it means the card would eventually have cost net $0 or better then that's a very high incentive to mine, even if that payback is 3 months or 2 years. At the end of it you have the money to upgrade, keep the GPU you have or sell it and mine on the new one and/or the old one.

Given the current pandemic, I have to wonder. Every single GPU in the store is gone except for the ones nobody can mine on. It's like a FOMO panic. Even when I was in the store, people were coming in, asking about gpu's and PCIe riser cables.

 

Anyway, again, my point was that burning energy for only a few dollars a day is just putting wear on the cooling and wasting energy. If you're doing that on parts that aren't even that efficient, that's incredibly foolish. Don't buy parts with the intent of mining on them. If you're going to buy parts entirely to mine on them, buy the 3080's and ignore the rest. Yes gamers are gonna have a fit about that. The 3090 is not cost effective for it (and likely is not cost effective for gaming either) and the 3070 is 25% less efficient and you need twice as many of them. 

 

The weird thing is the CMP cards (HX50) are the same. So if those cards are more expensive than the 3080, then the 3080 is still the better purchase for mining. But of course people are going to buy them because they're being made at all.

 

Getting 70$/mo from not being able to use your high end GPU is self-defeating, and unless you're in a country where the USD exchange rate is extremely in your favor, it shouldn't even be considered. 

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7 hours ago, Kisai said:

A living wage is $20 x 8 hours a day = $160. 40 hours per week x $20 = $800 is the bare minimum to hit that where you don't need a pizza job.

Can I just say that as a fresh graduate with a bachelor degree in engineering, my expected pay at work is $700-800 a month in my country? Working 5-6 days a week

 

Right now I'm making $3000 a month in mining

-sigh- feeling like I'm being too negative lately

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7 hours ago, Kisai said:

So figure it out.

3090 ($3800/ea * 13)= $12.97/ea , input cost is $49400 to make $168.61/day, Recovery time 293 days.

3080 ($3500/ea *13) = $12.84/ea, input cost is $45500 to make $166.92/day, Recovery time 273 days.

3070 ($1400/ea * 25 ) = $6.49/ea, input cost is $35000 to make $162.25/day, Recovery time 215 days.

3060Ti ($1500/ea * 25) = $6.58/ea, input cost is $37500 to make $164.5/day, Recovery time 228 days.

Where did you pull those selling price from? That's extraordinarily high imo

I got a 3090 for $2000, 3070 for roughly $1100 a piece, and 3060 ti (before the price hike) at $600

 

Regardless, it's still less than a year for ROI, plus you're assuming the GPU will be worth nothing by the end of it, which isn't true

 

7 hours ago, Kisai said:

I think people spending $2500+ on a GPU now to make $10/day are fools who are parting with their money

Mmkay, I suppose fixed deposit grows your money faster?

Or keeping them in a bank doing nothing

 

Not to say that there's no risk in mining, it's up to the individual to decide what they're want to do with their money

Before this I'm just mindlessly paying few grand a year buying PC parts without ROI, now I get ROI and suddenly it's stupid

 

7 hours ago, Kisai said:

The rest of those? Definitely not worth it, particularly the 3090

God bless you if you can say no to few hundred bucks bonus income every month

I'm not so fortunate

-sigh- feeling like I'm being too negative lately

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1 hour ago, Moonzy said:

God bless you if you can say no to few hundred bucks bonus income every month

I'm not so fortunate

I think there are a lot of sour grapes in the PC community regarding mining.

People trying to convince themselves that they haven't made a mistake, or self entitled people that are salty they aren't getting what they want, so they want to find something or someone to blame. Right now it's scalpers and miners that everyone loves to hate. I can't read through more than two threads before I encounter a comment saying how miners or scalpers are terrible and the cause of all evil in the world.

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9 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

I think there are a lot of sour grapes in the PC community regarding mining.

People trying to convince themselves that they haven't made a mistake, or self entitled people that are salty they aren't getting what they want, so they want to find something or someone to blame. Right now it's scalpers and miners that everyone loves to hate. I can't read through more than two threads before I encounter a comment saying how miners or scalpers are terrible and the cause of all evil in the world.

I don't think it's unjustified, as they've been misinformed by the media and masses that loves to jump on the hate bandwagon and what not

It's just a different point of perspective and I respect that

I can only do my best and say what I think to try to inform them of my views, and take in their perspective from another point of view. Because who knows, maybe I'm really doing something evil and I'd be none the wiser if I wasn't educated.

-sigh- feeling like I'm being too negative lately

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19 hours ago, Levent said:

Sure, it makes more sense to buy a brand new graphics card to replace a one that is not performing as it did on day one because of $5 worth of thermal paste and pads.

 

No. It makes more sense to buy a brand new gpu because you don't run the risk of your "new" and mined gpu to randomly die 3 months after purchase. No one will accept a refund or RMA for that second hand item.

 

I know miners love to sell their used gpus at near MSRP if not more but let's be real here at least.

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5 minutes ago, Rym said:

No. It makes more sense to buy a brand new gpu because you don't run the risk of your "new" and mined gpu to randomly die 3 months after purchase. No one will accept a refund or RMA for that second hand item.

this may be true if your GPU doesnt come with a valid receipt

mine does and i keep them so when i re-sell them, the new owner can claim warranty if needed

i sold 2 GPUs that still have warranty on them, handed over the box, with purchase receipt and all

 

that said, i only buy electronics if i know how they were treated, meaning from close friends only

 

I have no issues selling my mined on GPU, I know how well i treat them and can be confident the chances of them being faulty is no higher than any other 2nd hand GPU that isnt being mistreated

and several of my friends have interest in buying from me, as they know how i handle hardwares

-sigh- feeling like I'm being too negative lately

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1 hour ago, LAwLz said:

I think there are a lot of sour grapes in the PC community regarding mining.

People trying to convince themselves that they haven't made a mistake, or self entitled people that are salty they aren't getting what they want, so they want to find something or someone to blame. Right now it's scalpers and miners that everyone loves to hate. I can't read through more than two threads before I encounter a comment saying how miners or scalpers are terrible and the cause of all evil in the world.

Crypto mining is a moral hazard. Aside from exasperating a run on hardware (ASIC, GPU, CPUs, chips in general) that can hash cost-effectively, mining uses about the same energy as all of Argentina .

 

The only people buying or getting involved in this are upper-middle class and wealthy investors. It's all a giant circle-jerk.

 

I predict Crypto is here to stay for at least another year or two until more hardware can flood the market and drive the cost of the coin back down. Until then, the scarcity is what will keep it afloat. That, or until a "whale" cashes out and the bottom falls through. 

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8 hours ago, Moonzy said:

Can I just say that as a fresh graduate with a bachelor degree in engineering, my expected pay at work is $700-800 a month in my country? Working 5-6 days a week

 

Right now I'm making $3000 a month in mining

$125K is a starting salary in SF. $800/mo won't even get you rent in SF (average $3000), let alone where I am (Vancouver, BC) where the average rental is $2000/mo. Electricity may be cheap here, but you definitely can't hide it.

 

So I take you've horded 8 3090 cards to do this with. So you're part of the problem.

8 hours ago, Moonzy said:

Where did you pull those selling price from? That's extraordinarily high imo

I got a 3090 for $2000, 3070 for roughly $1100 a piece, and 3060 ti (before the price hike) at $600

Those are the current Buy-it-now numbers off eBay.

 

8 hours ago, Moonzy said:

God bless you if you can say no to few hundred bucks bonus income every month

I'm not so fortunate

You still don't get it. You are playing the same card the cigar-chomping oil-baron cartoon villain pulls. "It's only business, not personal, as long as there is money to made, get out of the way."

 

As I said to Leadeater, 

Quote

and unless you're in a country where the USD exchange rate is extremely in your favor, it shouldn't even be considered. 

There is no reason for anyone in North America or Europe to be doing mining except to be a capitalism profits-before-consequences caricature. If your country isn't experiencing brownouts yet, then mining hasn't hit an unsustainable point for the electric utility.

 

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52 minutes ago, Kisai said:

So I take you've horded 8 3090 cards to do this with. So you're part of the problem.

11 ampere gpu in total

3 3060ti

7 3070

1 3090

 

yea i'm contributing to the shortage indeed, no doubt

but I won't say that I'm taking it from the hands of gamers because I bought it from store shelves, where everyone had equal opportunity to get it

Am I contributing to higher price levels? certainly, and I will continue to do it as long as it still makes sense for my purchase

 

52 minutes ago, Kisai said:

Those are the current Buy-it-now numbers off eBay.

tbh i have no doubt, as when BTC and ETH spiked, the GPU prices also spiked and went out of stock immediately for my location

 

52 minutes ago, Kisai said:

You still don't get it. You are playing the same card the cigar-chomping oil-baron cartoon villain pulls. "It's only business, not personal, as long as there is money to made, get out of the way."

and... what's wrong with me trying to better my financial situation? (whether mining is a good way to do it is my call and my risk to take)

I didn't kill anyone, I didn't hurt anyone

 

All I did was buy GPU at higher prices than what other would, because my use case justifies the pricing.

Am I not supposed to buy a GPU because Gamer Joe can't afford it or something?

 

52 minutes ago, Kisai said:

There is no reason for anyone in North America or Europe to be doing mining except to be a capitalism profits-before-consequences caricature.

 

9 hours ago, Moonzy said:

God bless you if you can say no to few hundred bucks bonus income every month

I'm not so fortunate

pretty sure everyone around the world needs/wants money.

 

even your pizza boy could run mining rig at home and get some bonus income while he's out and about.

which is better? just your salary or your salary + mining

-sigh- feeling like I'm being too negative lately

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14 hours ago, Moonzy said:

Am I not supposed to buy a GPU because Gamer Joe can't afford it or something?

May I add to your impeccable justification by saying that this reason (the one I quoted) is generally what many people quote against mining but by that logic shouldn't all gamers stop buying GPUs and donate them to scientific endeavors and reasearch?

"A high ideal missed by a little, is far better than low ideal that is achievable, yet far less effective"

 

If you think I'm wrong, correct me. If I've offended you in some way tell me what it is and how I can correct it. I want to learn, and along the way one can make mistakes; Being wrong helps you learn what's right.

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2 hours ago, J-from-Nucleon said:

but by that logic shouldn't all gamers stop buying GPUs and donate them to scientific endeavors and reasearch?

this message was brought to you by:

Spoiler

THE FOLDING@HOME AND BOINC COMMUNITY
SIGN UP NOW TO INSTANTLY DONATE YOUR COMPUTE POWER TO THE RESEARCH OF DEFEATING VARIOUS DISEASES AND PROGRESSING SCIENCE FURTHER!

 

in all seriousness, folding month is soon, so pay close attention to it if you're interested in contributing to science

 

-sigh- feeling like I'm being too negative lately

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On 2/24/2021 at 6:46 PM, Blademaster91 said:

Sure replacing the thermal paste and thermal pads fixes the performance issue, but the average gamer buying a used GPU isn't going to do that, also the only GPU brand I can think of that doesn't void your warranty for taking apart a GPU is EVGA.

As if warranty is even a concern when you're buying a used, probably several years old mining card.

If someone did not use reason to reach their conclusion in the first place, you cannot use reason to convince them otherwise.

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1 hour ago, J-from-Nucleon said:

May I add to your impeccable justification by saying that this reason (the one I quoted) is generally what many people quote against mining but by that logic shouldn't all gamers stop buying GPUs and donate them to scientific endeavors and reasearch?

I think it's funny that a lot of people who hate on miners are gamers that just want the latest and greatest hardware for:

1) Bragging rights.

2) To play some flavor of the month game at slightly higher settings than before.

 

It's basically like saying "the shadow quality in my games are more important than you making some money".

That's why I said gamers were self entitled earlier.

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36 minutes ago, Moonzy said:

this message was brought to you by:

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THE FOLDING@HOME AND BOINC COMMUNITY
SIGN UP NOW TO INSTANTLY DONATE YOUR COMPUTE POWER TO THE RESEARCH OF DEFEATING VARIOUS DISEASES AND PROGRESSING SCIENCE FURTHER!

 

in all seriousness, folding month is soon, so pay close attention to it if you're interested in contributing to science

 

No no, can't do that as it would mean that the gpu is being used for other purposes than gaming. A gpu cannot be used for any other task than the one marketed by the OEM

One day I will be able to play Monster Hunter Frontier in French/Italian/English on my PC, it's just a matter of time... 4 5 6 7 8 9 years later: It's finally coming!!!

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