Living furniture free

[kokakolia]

Hi y'all,

 

I bought a brand new flat, it's still under construction. I'll move in sometime in 2022. And I don't own much stuff, just a stereo, a Switch and some clothes. 

 

I have been obsessively racking my brain on how to furnish the darn place. Furniture ain't cheap . 

 

So I found a radical solution on YouTube: live furniture free . The rationale behind this lifestyle is to improve health by facilitating freedom of movement and cleanliness. Apparently, chairs & sofas are the devil because they restrict all movement. The other benefits are $$$ and decreased decision fatigue from lack of clutter. 

 

All I need is a bed, a fridge, a kettle and a Cookeo (Instant Pot equivalent for French people). 

 

I have a few concerns:

 

- How to deal with room echo? I have a pretty effin' good stereo and the echo would ruin everything.

- How do make an empty room feel cosy and not like an office room at work?

- How do you accommodate guests? I suppose that nobody will ever want to stay over? 

- How do you work comfortably on a laptop? Is a standing desk a good buy? I see Youtubers working on coffee tables and sitting on pillows, that sounds awful to me.

 

Worst case scenario: I give up this lifestyle and buy furniture anyways. I literally have nothing to lose, because I don't own any furniture. 

 

 

[Mutoh]

Just buy furniture. "Furniture free" seems like a silly social experiment more than a realistic lifestyle. Also a hassle for reasons youve mentioned and terribly uncomfortable for you and your guests IMO

[Mooshi]

At first I read just a stereo, a sandwich

[WereCatf]

10 hours ago, kokakolia said:

Is a standing desk a good buy?

A standing desk is a piece of furniture...

[harryk]

As someone who lives minimally and sorta tried the no furniture thing here's my advice. Don't try to plan ahead and furnish the whole place. Move in with nothing. Wait for your needs to become apparent and make deliberate purchases to satisfy those needs. After a few years you will probably have purchased several pieces of furniture but only those which are actually necessary.

 

10 hours ago, kokakolia said:

- How to deal with room echo? I have a pretty effin' good stereo and the echo would ruin everything.

- How do make an empty room feel cosy and not like an office room at work?

- How do you accommodate guests? I suppose that nobody will ever want to stay over? 

- How do you work comfortably on a laptop? Is a standing desk a good buy? I see Youtubers working on coffee tables and sitting on pillows, that sounds awful to me.

- If you're not already knowledgeable, it is time to learn about room treatments.

- That's up to you. Decorations? A good chair?

- If you want guests to be comfortable sleeping over, a guest room with a proper bed is warranted.

- Again up to you. My advice is to try different things and discover what you prefer most. You can try quick DIY versions of things to see if the concept, like a standing desk, works before spending big bucks on something high quality.

[kaiju_wars]

Used furniture is the way to go.  That's how I furnished a good chunk of my apartment.  The only things I don't recommend used is mainly the bedframe and mattress.  You never know if someone has bed bugs or something.  Certain appliances I also don't recommend used, stuff mainly you cook/clean with.  Like say a microwave or a vacuum, big notable examples.  

 

Otherwise, look at local furniture stores and thrift stores.  Browse whatever France's equivalent of Facebook Marketplace and Craigslist is.  I housed a good chunk of my apartment from the local furniture store alone.  Got me a dinning room table, four chairs, a recliner, a small entertainment center (that I use for my CRT), and even some stools for the breakfast bar for like... $50.

(it's a nice dining room table too, made out of solid wood.  Not pressed wood or particle board).

[unsorted]

19 hours ago, kokakolia said:

 

- How to deal with room echo? I have a pretty effin' good stereo and the echo would ruin everything.

- How do make an empty room feel cosy and not like an office room at work?

- How do you accommodate guests? I suppose that nobody will ever want to stay over? 

- How do you work comfortably on a laptop? Is a standing desk a good buy? I see Youtubers working on coffee tables and sitting on pillows, that sounds awful to me.

 

Worst case scenario: I give up this lifestyle and buy furniture anyways. I literally have nothing to lose, because I don't own any furniture. 

 

 

* room echo: soft furnishings

* check bins for discarded furniture / second-hand stores / local classifieds / ebay. It doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg. Get ideas from an IKEA catalogue or similar.

* cosy room: look into lighting and colours you like / plants too

* guests: couch / more chairs / working toilet / coffee table, etc.

* laptop/desktop ergonomics basics: allow for at least 90 degree  angle in arms with feet comfortably flat on floor.  Screen or monitor as close to eye-level as possible (proper posture). External monitors and external keyboards  can do wonders with a laptop. So can adjustable tables and/or chairs for proper ergonomics. Lots of sites to look up about ergonomics if unsure

 

[Aereldor]

Hey, maybe I could help you with this. I lived in a very small apartment in NYC for two years and was mostly 'furniture free' to max out my >200 sqft of space.

 

My desk was a wall-mounted Ikea Bjursta

https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/bjursta-wall-mounted-drop-leaf-table-brown-black-80217524/

 

My chairs were Ikea Terje - they offer a variant with arms but I didn't want it

https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/terje-folding-chair-white-80222441/

 

The couch I had was a Christopher Knight Tovah, which doubles as a storage unit.

https://www.amazon.com/Christopher-300784-Charcoal-Storage-Loveseat/dp/B07CXHVZ3K

 

Inside that were almost all my clothes and a Japanese Futon, which is a floor mattress that I found a lot more comfortable than a bed.

https://www.amazon.com/Rolling-Bed-BK-39-80-Traditional-Mattresses/dp/B00UKJHVIU/

 

I also got a mini-fridge which doubled as a kitchen counter, and got rid of my oven, instead using an induction cooktop on top of the fridge. 

 

Saved a lot of space. I'm a working musician so I had an compact electric piano (Yamaha CD60) and a folding drum set that I built for touring, but it was very open. The stool for the piano was also a storage unit, which fit everything else that wasn't clothes. Since everything folded away, furniture took up like 5% of my apartment space. I think getting like a couch and an ottoman which have storage, and then getting folding tables and chairs for the rest, is undoubtedly the way to go.

 

 

[Aereldor]

3 hours ago, unsorted said:

* room echo: soft furnishings

* cosy room: look into lighting and colours you like / plants too

* guests: couch / more chairs / working toilet / coffee table, etc.

If you're young and your guests are too, I'd just get floor cushions. They do all of this - sound dampening, cosiness, and seating areas.

[kokakolia]

@AereldorThanks for the tips. That IKEA desk is actually genius. My space is actually pretty massive for a simple lad like myself. I have a 65m^2 (700 sq feet) with 2 bedrooms and a decent size living room.

 

There are way too many options for sofas in France. I don't know whether to buy a boring IKEA sofa, or splurge on something godly at Produit Intérieur Brut (and sit on the floor for months):

 

https://www.produitinterieurbrut.com/fauteuils-et-chaises/canapes/grand-canape-chesterfield-montaigu-gris=0562880

 

I think @harryk has the most rational approach: buy stuff as you need it. I could be freaking out over nothing. It's just that spending all of this money all at once will make me ill. And that's because I have been living frugally since longer than I can remember. 

 

@unsorted Plants and rugs will fill up an empty room and not make the appartement feel like an office space. 

 

Further, second hand furniture in France are extremely old fashioned Louis XVI style replicas. It just doesn't mesh well at all with modern furniture. But it's cheap and solid

[greenhorn]

I live in a 30 m2 apartment, so I had to deal with many of the issues you are describing. As @harryksuggested, try starting with a minimal amount of furniture. It is much easier to fill a room with furniture than to declutter it.

Try to find multi-purpose furniture, furniture that can fold or be easily stored when not needed. If you buy chairs, try to find foildable ones or at least stackable ones so that you don't use up too much space, especially when you don't need all of them at once. Foldable, wall-mounted tables are great, but make sure to check whether the wall can support the load (imagine if a person were to sit on the edge of the table for some reason, that puts a lot of stress on the mounting mechanism).

One thing that can get you a lot of "free" storage space is to build an elevated base for your bed (you could use kitchen cabinets for that for example), this lets you better organize things you need without having to add too much furniture.
If you are concerned about echo, adding some kind of carpet and a sofa can already go a long way.

When it comes to choosing a sofa or chairs, I would strongly recommend trying them out first to make sure that you personally find them comfortable (which is quite a subjective thing). You could for example try sofas at an IKEA store (once they are open again of course) and then look for that model on the used market (just make sure it comes from an non-smoking household without any pets). I don't know how it is in France, but I assume that like here IKEA furniture can easily be found second hand. Here in Austria, IKEA has a very generous policy of providing spare parts for its furniture for free most of the time, I assume it is similar in France. This helped me out many times when I bought stuff second hand and somehow lost some screws.

The last thing has not much to do with furniture, but is still important to consider imho. Look at the distribution of natural light in the apartment during the day. This can also give you clues where to place some of the furniture and if there are places you might want to add mirrors to illuminate any dark spots during the day.

From my experience, people usually change their furniture placement from time to time, so don't get obsessed with finding the perfect way to do it the first time, just give it time and you will figure out which way you like it best.

[kokakolia]

@greenhornI'm iffy about IKEA sofas. They just don't seem all that durable and comfortable. I suppose the Gronlid and Stocksund models were alright. But it's not love at first sight. And yes, IKEA is dominating in France. Conforama, BUT and Maisons du Monde are struggling to compete with equal/worse quality at steeper prices. 

 

I'm at a crossroads between getting cheap furniture which won't last or look pretty or splurging and being broke. But IKEA makes the most durable tables, chairs and beds at the best prices. The Lisabo collection is a slam dunk in my book. And that's just one example. 

 

I found some nice sofas at BUT and Maisons du Monde however. And they're competitively priced with IKEA. Just avoid convertible sofa/beds and you can get something beautiful, comfortable and solid around 400€ brand new:

 

https://www.but.fr/produits/4894223214834/Canape-3-places-ZOE-tissu-gris.html

 

Furnishing the appartement is kinda puzzling because of the excessive amount of balcony doors and a kitchen that is built length wise on the opposite side. Yeah, it's a kitchen/living room situation without any means of separation. It's a first world problem that's so embarassing to share

 

Side note: I may as well get Louis XVI furniture on the cheap and use chalk paint. Seems like fun. And buying used is way more economical. 

[Tristerin]

If you are capable of buying a flat 2 years in advance - Im curious how you cant afford furniture?  I mean I could be wrong but...furniture isnt that expensive unless you are buying high end.

 

Or yet, where are you going to put the furniture for 2 years while you wait?  If I were in your shoes with this predicament Id quite simply stop looking at furniture until closer to move in date.

[greenhorn]

3 minutes ago, kokakolia said:

[...]

Furnishing the appartement is kinda puzzling because of the excessive amount of balcony doors and a kitchen that is built length wise on the opposite side. Yeah, it's a kitchen/living room situation without any means of separation. It's a first world problem that's so embarassing to share [...]

That's nothing to be embarassed about, those balcony doors can be quite nice and give a lot of light. If you want to create some separation between the kitchen area and the rest of the room, there are several affordable options. Some pieces of furniture can separate the areas and still let a lot of light through. One "hack" I have seen but not used myself yet is to get 3 or more IKEA Ivar elements (https://www.ikea.com/fr/fr/p/ivar-montant-lateral-57489509/ ), connect them using hinges and mount some mesh or fabric onto them (depending on how much light you want to get through). That thing can be used as separation, will stand on its own and can easily be moved or stored.

[kokakolia]

26 minutes ago, Tristerin said:

If you are capable of buying a flat 2 years in advance - Im curious how you cant afford furniture?  I mean I could be wrong but...furniture isnt that expensive unless you are buying high end.

 

Or yet, where are you going to put the furniture for 2 years while you wait?  If I were in your shoes with this predicament Id quite simply stop looking at furniture until closer to move in date.

Yeah! But the place doesn't come with a functional kitchen and that costs a lot of dough. I figured that If I bought everything new and quality it would cost me about 10k€ for the kitchen and 10k€ for the furniture. And that will be all of my savings, literally . Shipping fees will bite me in the butt no doubt . 

 

@greenhorn Leroy Merlin has these temporary walls you can put anywhere. They look nice. 

 

https://www.leroymerlin.fr/v3/p/produits/cloison-de-separation-atelier-mdf-revetu-blanc-effet-metal-l-80-x-h-240-x-p-4cm-e1505563566?megaBoost&gclid=CjwKCAiAirb_BRBNEiwALHlnD1hiesmGym5eesZgDMJpaSG6-Q2EL4UL8dIqJVewMFK7ce3yhWQyvxoCF9sQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

[ToboRobot]

I don't have a bed, I sleep on a mat on the floor.

I didn't have a chair for a long time, but its much nicer to use a computer with a chair and desk, over a yoga ball and a pile of books to prop up your monitor (did that for a year).

Minimal furniture and stuff is a good idea, but no furniture sucks.

[kokakolia]

7 minutes ago, ToboRobot said:

I don't have a bed, I sleep on a mat on the floor.

I didn't have a chair for a long time, but its much nicer to use a computer with a chair and desk, over a yoga ball and a pile of books to prop up your monitor (did that for a year).

Minimal furniture and stuff is a good idea, but no furniture sucks.

Thanks! I was seeking subjective experiences from people. 

 

So it seems that a desk is essential. I can personally vouch for the MICKE desk from IKEA. It's nothing fancy, but it's sturdy AF. Nothing comes close for the price, unless you buy second hand or DIY a desk from scraps. 

 

How's sleeping on the floor? Does it get easier over time?

[ToboRobot]

1 minute ago, kokakolia said:

Thanks! I was seeking subjective experiences from people. 

 

So it seems that a desk is essential. I can personally vouch for the MICKE desk from IKEA. It's nothing fancy, but it's sturdy AF. Nothing comes close for the price, unless you buy second hand or DIY a desk from scraps. 

 

How's sleeping on the floor? Does it get easier over time?

I would say the chair is essential, the desk slightly less so.  I can sit and play games, eat, or use a laptop easily from a nice office chair.  The desk mainly supports my speakers and amp, and its wear I sit to use a desktop, or write.  But my back couldn't live/work without the chair.  My desk is two wooden sawhorses and and old flat piece of wood, just free stuff, the chair was $600.

I love sleeping on the floor, and can't stand most beds now.  You adjust to the lack of padding and I think its better for the back, and tissue.  I've been sleeping close to the ground for a long time, boxspring and mattress directly on the ground as I rolled alot in my sleep and I didn't want to fall far, which is no concern now.

The only problem, is the anxiety about bringing home someone and having to sexplain not having a bed.  

[kokakolia]

@ToboRobotDo you need an expensive chair because you spend a lot of time at your desk?

 

Personally, I only spend several hours at a time at most. My job is 70% in the field and 30% at home and it's pretty sweet that I get away with working 4 or 5 hour days. And I enjoy gaming on a computer monitor much less than gaming on a sofa with a TV. 

 

Currently, I'm working off of my dining table sitting in an uncomfortable metal dining chair. It doesn't seem to bother me much. I do value a dining table a lot however

 

I don't value having a desk much, but I might buy a desk if someone moves in with me and I don't wanna hog up the kitchen/living room area. 

 

Heck! The more I think about being furniture free, the more I see myself just staring at my phone leaning against a wall or sitting on a mattress/rug .

 

I'm having second thoughts, because I like to entertain and I believe that a dining table (of any size) and a bed are essential. 

 

Yeah, I just made this thread null

 

 

 

[ToboRobot]

I wanted an well made (long lasting) and comfortable chair (which ended up being expensive), because sitting for more than an hour or two, became impossible and I was having to relax my back by laying down on my back on the hard floor and stretching.  Years of poor posture, and sports injuries have taken its toll on my body, so investing in taking care of the only back I have seemed prudent.

[kokakolia]

Alright! That was such a personal answer so thanks a lot! 

 

Ultimately, you found the chair for you. 600$ isn't a steep price if it improves your quality of life. 

[Lii]

On 12/31/2020 at 12:27 AM, Caroline said:

You could buy used or IKEA furniture

no ikea forniture are literally shit

 

they do use really cheap materials, and for what they do sell them, they are no worth it

 

Anyway @kokakolia since I do need to built a portfolio, if via mp(or even there, as you wish) you do give me the room planometetry, budget, what you would like, and some link of hardware stores around you (just to check the prices, they might differ from zone to zone), I can make you some drawings 

 

also if you don't really want to buy fornitures, for blocking the echo, you could install some doors/pannels,

 

for the laptop.. that really depends on you

[kokakolia]

@LiiHere's the floor plan. My budget is 10k€ for the kitchen (I think I can get away with 8k€ for an IKEA kitchen) and 10~12k€ for furniture. 

 

i51-t3.pdf

 

IKEA isn't entirely shit. I know for a fact that that Lisabo tables are gorgeous, especially in person. They're veneered in ash and feel solid. Moreover, Pax dressers are rock solid and practical. IKEA chairs are solid and comfy. The MALM bed is surprisingly sturdy as well. 

 

The best hardware store in France is Leroy Merlin. They have a website:

https://www.leroymerlin.fr/

 

I'd like to style my house like the Cyrillus catalogue: https://www.cyrillus.fr/maison/decoration-luminaires.htm?intnavid=h_decoration-mobilier-rangement_decoration-luminaires

 

It's basically halfway between Scandinavian and a nursery for rich babies

 

I know that I can buy solid beech furniture for slightly more money than IKEA from Amazon (seller: Krok Wood) and Home24. I feel like I may as well buy EVERYTHING from Home24. But I haven't seen the pieces in person.  

 

https://www.home24.fr/

 

And like I said before, Concept Usine has some beautiful furniture for competitive prices:

https://www.concept-usine.com/

 

But I'm definitely getting a sofa from PIB:

https://www.produitinterieurbrut.com/fauteuils-et-chaises

 

The kitchen will only come with a sink and will have to built from scratch. I plan on adding additional cabinets on the southern wall next to the fridge. It will be like an L shaped kitchen without the corner. I know that the washer is practically in the living room, but I plan on hiding the unit behind a kitchen cabinet. I have lost countless sleep over the sub-optimal kitchen/living room layout (which cannot be modified) and concluded that everything is fine. Even the sink right next to the stove isn't a big deal, I just have to add more cabinets on the adjacent wall. Trust me it's fine. I can also squeeze a sofa between the two balcony doors if the width is about 80cm. Or I can offset the sofa a little bit from the small balcony door so that it doesn't completely obstruct. (the door doesn't have to open at 90°, even 30° is fine). Basically, I don't care for the smaller balcony door.

 

 i51-t3.pdf

 

Yes, I do want furniture. But a minimal amount. I don't want to stuff the place with too many chairs, cabinets etc... 

 

HOWEVER, it's too soon to plan any furniture purchases. Most of the inventory won't be available in 2 years time, except for IKEA's bestselling furniture which never goes out of style (eg Pax dresser). I'll have to take some measurements IRL as well, and pinpoint all of the outlets and light sources. 

[Intergalacticbits]

I'd just suggest to go slow and buy one piece of furniture at a time.

That way you get the experience of make do furniture and then the feel good experience of having something you really like when you find it.

 

I much prefer older stuff because it's often better made and it can look worlds better.

The old stuff I have I enjoy the most. To me the new stuff I am able to get is poor by comparison.

If I had money to spend on this kind of stuff.

I'd get more because why not feel good in your home if you can afford too.

I'd look for older people (like 70 or 80 years old) selling stuff because their more likely to have that really old quality furniture.

Maybe estate sales where they auction off everything in big old houses. I never did that but I bet there is great stuff at those.

Also you can have fun exploring antique furniture shops.

I don't know what it's like where you live.

Where I live much of the new furniture I see for the most part is cheap in build and look and very overpriced.

 

 

 

 

 

[ToboRobot]

20 minutes ago, Intergalacticbits said:

I'd just suggest to go slow and buy one piece of furniture at a time.

That way you get the experience of make do furniture and then the feel good experience of having something you really like when you find it.

 

I much prefer older stuff because it's often better made and it can look worlds better.

The old stuff I have I enjoy the most. To me the new stuff is like trash by comparison.

If I had money to spend on this kind of stuff right now.

I'd get more because why not feel good in your home if you can afford too.

I'd look for older people (like 70 or 80 years old) selling stuff because their more likely to have that really old quality furniture.

Maybe estate sales where they auction off everything in big old houses. I never did that but I bet there are great stuff at those.

Also you can have fun exploring antique furniture shops.

I don't know what it's like where you live.

Where I live new furniture for the most part is cheap in build and look and very overpriced.

 

 

 

 

 

Good advice.  Go slow, and thoughtfully acquire furniture, don't feel you need to load a cart up in Ikea with everything all at once.

Minimalism allows you to focus on fewer choices, so you can look for antiques, or look for tradespeople who will custom build quality furniture that you love.