Can you trust Apple? Maybe not.

[Uttamattamakin]

Here are the words of a true guru of Apple use.    Apple will totally lock users in when everything is built on their own SOC's.  Then it will abuse their position of power.  This is based on his long term activity of Apple in the past.  When they had users locked down  they squeezed for all the money they could.    The most interesting question is can a discrete GPU work with an Apple silicon mac?  

 

 

 

His point about discrete GPU's makes me think ... what about those  who have the new Mac Pro? Will there be a card they can put in that will empower them to run ARM code at native speed?  Lord knows a "pro" won't want to bother with virtualization.  

[TempestCatto]

Ya know what's sad is most users will either not care, or will defend Apple tooth and nail. Then again, this isn't exactly a confirmation from them either. We gotta take this with a grain of salt (or two).

[Donut417]

21 minutes ago, Uttamattamakin said:

Apple will totally lock users in when everything is built on their own SOC's. 

Blame Intel for this. There constant fuck ups the last few generations were the reason Apple decided to jump ship. If Intel stayed competitive, then its likely Apple might have not decided to change over to their own silicon. I do think they will lock you down to a built in App Store like they have done with the iPhone. 

 

15 minutes ago, TempestCatto said:

Ya know what's sad is most users will either not care, or will defend Apple tooth and nail. Then again, this isn't exactly a confirmation from them either. We gotta take this with a grain of salt (or two).

Lets be honest here. When you buy Apple, you pay for "The Experience" LOL. There are things Apple does do well, the integration between their products is second to none. Very VERY convenient to be able to get Texts and Calls on my MacBook Pro, and all you need is a MacBook Pro and iPhone on the same network. This feature works well and is polished. But yeah, Apple will likely take advantage of the situation and lock their machines down to a single App Store that they control and likely get 30% of everything. 

[Uttamattamakin]

5 hours ago, Donut417 said:

Lets be honest here. When you buy Apple, you pay for "The Experience" LOL. There are things Apple does do well, the integration between their products is second to none. Very VERY convenient to be able to get Texts and Calls on my MacBook Pro, and all you need is a MacBook Pro and iPhone on the same network. This feature works well and is polished. But yeah, Apple will likely take advantage of the situation and lock their machines down to a single App Store that they control and likely get 30% of everything. 

Not to mention if Apple goes bust then all of the workflows built on that would cease to function.  This can happen.  Remember IBM?  Who in 2000would've predicted they would more or less vanish.

[NineEyeRon]

Is this really going to affect a majority of Apple users who just use phones and tablets? 

 

I am really looking forward to the day I can afford an Apple laptop but I would never buy a desktop. I dont need the laptop, it’s a luxury and my windows PC can easily get to and work on all the documents I need I my iPad isn’t up to it. 

[Sauron]

Everyone knows this. This has been the way Apple has operated for decades

[Donut417]

6 hours ago, Uttamattamakin said:

Remember IBM? 

They still exist. Granted they might not have the influence they once had, but they still are alive and kicking. 

[Roswell]

They’re not locking you into the App Store. You can still download programs from wherever. This was addressed day one...

 

Not only is it logistically impossible but Adobe and Autodesk and the like would have a nice big chuckle at the idea of forking over 30% and essentially kill the platform.

[Uttamattamakin]

9 hours ago, Donut417 said:

They still exist. Granted they might not have the influence they once had, but they still are alive and kicking. 

Yeah barely.  If Apple ever still exist in the sense that IBM still exist the people who bought into their platform are going to be marooned on a dead platform.  Like people who bought into Windows phone. 

9 hours ago, Vitamanic said:

They’re not locking you into the App Store. You can still download programs from wherever. This was addressed day one...

A.) they would of course say that at first.  

B.) 99% of programs you can just download from where ever are compiled for X86.  I really doubt most users are going to want to compile software from source.  Plus there are the programs that are not open source which cannot be compiled.  

C.) You'd say but rosetta2.  I'd bet you $20 American that they will highly "optimize" it for  those 10-20 (or fewer) programs we think our users most want, and that you can also download optimized copies of from our store.   Somehow I am certain that even Google Chrome won't be as "optimized" or "integrated" as Safari which is of course a much better browser.   

 

I can go on.  You have to remember Apple is the company that barely acquiesced to USBC just this year. 

 

[Roswell]

6 minutes ago, Uttamattamakin said:

Yeah barely.  If Apple ever still exist in the sense that IBM still exist the people who bought into their platform are going to be marooned on a dead platform.  Like people who bought into Windows phone. 

A.) they would of course say that at first.  

B.) 99% of programs you can just download from where ever are compiled for X86.  I really doubt most users are going to want to compile software from source.  Plus there are the programs that are not open source which cannot be compiled.  

C.) You'd say but rosetta2.  I'd bet you $20 American that they will highly "optimize" it for  those 10-20 (or fewer) programs we think our users most want, and that you can also download optimized copies of from our store.   Somehow I am certain that even Google Chrome won't be as "optimized" or "integrated" as Safari which is of course a much better browser.   

 

I can go on.  You have to remember Apple is the company that barely acquiesced to USBC just this year. 

 

None of this makes sense. Nobody is stopping developers from releasing their programs with support for ARM. Nobody is stopping them from releasing apps outside of the App Store.

 

It’s obvious that you’ve never used Mac since it would be painfully clear that 99% of your software comes from developer websites.

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

12 minutes ago, Uttamattamakin said:

Google Chrome won't be as "optimized" or "integrated" as Safari which is of course a much better browser.   

That statement alone destroys your credibility... unless I'm interpreting this wrong. 

[Roswell]

1 minute ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

That statement alone destroys your credibility... unless I'm interpreting this wrong. 

To be fair, Chrome certainly isn’t as optimized as Safari on Mac. Though it’s mainly a function of Apple just making a far more efficient browser. You can get like double the battery life using Safari.
 

Chrome also doesn’t integrate with continuity features.

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

2 minutes ago, Vitamanic said:

To be fair, Chrome certainly isn’t as optimized as Safari on Mac. Though it’s mainly a function of Apple just making a far more efficient browser. You can get like double the battery life using Safari.
 

Chrome also doesn’t integrate with continuity features.

Is OP saying Chrome is the superior browser or Safari is? Because really both are good in their own ways. For Chrome you bet Google isn't going to find a way to break YouTube on it unlike what they did with Edge and Firefox back in the day. 

[Uttamattamakin]

2 hours ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

That statement alone destroys your credibility... unless I'm interpreting this wrong. 

Yes you are interpreting this wrong.  I should've said that in my Tim Cook voice.      Truth is if Google Chrome exist on Apple Silicon at all it will at best just be Safari with a google wrapper.  https://www.digitalcommerce360.com/2017/05/02/apples-dirty-little-secret-about-chrome/#:~:text=Consumers who use the Chrome,a Chrome skin around it.&text=This “closed ecosystem” is nothing,its browser competitors%2C including Chrome.

Which is a really solid piece of evidence.  Past performance does not necessarily guarantee future results.  However, this is a good indicator of what to expect. 

 

2 hours ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

Is OP saying Chrome is the superior browser or Safari is? Because really both are good in their own ways. For Chrome you bet Google isn't going to find a way to break YouTube on it unlike what they did with Edge and Firefox back in the day. 

No but see above.  Apple will claim it is all any user of Apple Silicon Mac's really needs. 

[AidyyJ]

Did he just say brand raping? 

[Uttamattamakin]

2 hours ago, Vitamanic said:

None of this makes sense. Nobody is stopping developers from releasing their programs with support for ARM. Nobody is stopping them from releasing apps outside of the App Store.

 

It’s obvious that you’ve never used Mac since it would be painfully clear that 99% of your software comes from developer websites.

I have used a Mac.  I used Apple Computers since the Apple ][ was current and cutting edge. I used Apple in school back when litterally every computer in almost every school was an Apple computer right up to High school way back in the 1900's.  I used a Mac back when the other pop culture guru  of Mac use was using it to write his news letter (Rush Limbaugh  like him or hate him he has a Simpsons character  BIG HUGE Mac User and Apple Fanboy no pun intended.  Talks about "tech bloggers" he reads/ watches to so I'd not be shocked if LTT is among them TBH.) 

 

Apple silicon is a return to form for them. They would lock down a platform as hard as US Federal Super Max if they can.    Their computer had their own separate CPU and completely incompatible platform right up until they adopted USB and then Intel processors.    So trust, past performance is an indicator of future results but not a guarantee.  

 

Think about this.  For most of Apple computers history if one had an Apple computer one could not even use a keyboard or mouse of their choice unless it was one made by Apple.    As in the shape and pinout of the keyboard were not compatible.  There likely were PS2 to ADB (Apple Desktop Bus) adapters but still. 

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

42 minutes ago, Uttamattamakin said:

Yes you are interpreting this wrong.  I should've said that in my Tim Cook voice.      Truth is if Google Chrome exist on Apple Silicon at all it will at best just be Safari with a google wrapper.  https://www.digitalcommerce360.com/2017/05/02/apples-dirty-little-secret-about-chrome/#:~:text=Consumers who use the Chrome,a Chrome skin around it.&text=This “closed ecosystem” is nothing,its browser competitors%2C including Chrome.

Which is a really solid piece of evidence.  Past performance does not necessarily guarantee future results.  However, this is a good indicator of what to expect. 

Don't quote me on this but I believe/ heard the same happens on Android. Like everything is just a wrapper on top of the Chrome browser. At least that's what I heard a while back. 

[dizmo]

I get what he's saying, but he's clearly biased. For example, saying they forced the larger woman onto the roof while the others got to stay inside? There's no way to know that she didn't ask for that role. Or that she wasn't excited about that. I highly doubt her physique had anything to do with it. Then he goes on to point out they could have simply switched to AMD silicone if they wanted to expand their offerings; completely ignoring the main reason a company would dump that much R&D into chip design. To get rid of paying that cut to anyone. He goes on to say that Apple states it'll take 2 years to transition, and rants about it taking closer to 10. Not realizing that Apple meant to change over it's own offerings, not what people use.

 

He has the odd point here and there, but overall it's just a load of BS, and frankly it sounds more like he's trying to rile people up than anything.

 

On 10/16/2020 at 6:16 PM, Donut417 said:

Blame Intel for this. There constant fuck ups the last few generations were the reason Apple decided to jump ship. If Intel stayed competitive, then its likely Apple might have not decided to change over to their own silicon. I do think they will lock you down to a built in App Store like they have done with the iPhone.

Apple was going to do it regardless of Intel. Blaming them makes absolutely no sense. If they were truly doing it only because they were mad at Intel, they'd have just gone with AMD to stick it to Intel twice; both with lost revenue, and helping their competitor.

[Roswell]

2 hours ago, Uttamattamakin said:

Yes you are interpreting this wrong.  I should've said that in my Tim Cook voice.      Truth is if Google Chrome exist on Apple Silicon at all it will at best just be Safari with a google wrapper.  https://www.digitalcommerce360.com/2017/05/02/apples-dirty-little-secret-about-chrome/#:~:text=Consumers who use the Chrome,a Chrome skin around it.&text=This “closed ecosystem” is nothing,its browser competitors%2C including Chrome.

Which is a really solid piece of evidence.  Past performance does not necessarily guarantee future results.  However, this is a good indicator of what to expect. 

 

No but see above.  Apple will claim it is all any user of Apple Silicon Mac's really needs. 

That’s mobile, not Mac. Google is free to develop Chrome as they see fit.

 

Not to mention that over on Android almost every browser is based on Chromium...

2 hours ago, Uttamattamakin said:

I have used a Mac.  I used Apple Computers since the Apple ][ was current and cutting edge. I used Apple in school back when litterally every computer in almost every school was an Apple computer right up to High school way back in the 1900's.  I used a Mac back when the other pop culture guru  of Mac use was using it to write his news letter (Rush Limbaugh  like him or hate him he has a Simpsons character  BIG HUGE Mac User and Apple Fanboy no pun intended.  Talks about "tech bloggers" he reads/ watches to so I'd not be shocked if LTT is among them TBH.) 

 

Apple silicon is a return to form for them. They would lock down a platform as hard as US Federal Super Max if they can.    Their computer had their own separate CPU and completely incompatible platform right up until they adopted USB and then Intel processors.    So trust, past performance is an indicator of future results but not a guarantee.  

 

Think about this.  For most of Apple computers history if one had an Apple computer one could not even use a keyboard or mouse of their choice unless it was one made by Apple.    As in the shape and pinout of the keyboard were not compatible.  There likely were PS2 to ADB (Apple Desktop Bus) adapters but still. 

 

Dude, they’re not doing this no matter how paranoid you are about it. Big Sur is available for testing and ARM development kits are out, they’re not forcing the App Store on anyone. The only thing that’s changing is the processor architecture. 

 

[Roswell]

4 hours ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

Is OP saying Chrome is the superior browser or Safari is? Because really both are good in their own ways. For Chrome you bet Google isn't going to find a way to break YouTube on it unlike what they did with Edge and Firefox back in the day. 

They’re saying that Google won’t update Chrome for native ARM support and that Apple will intentionally tank Chrome performance via the x86 compatibility layer.

 

It really makes no sense. I don’t think they realize that developers can actually write native ARM versions of their programs outside of Apple themselves.

[RejZoR]

I absolutely hate it how McDonalds locks me into their ecosystem and I'm not allowed to buy a Whopper in McDonalds restaurants. Such bullshit abuse of power!

 

"The level of reasoning of people who whine over Apple's control over their entirely own ecosystem of products..."

[Lord Vile]

Lol I don’t think I have a single piece of paid software from the app store on Mac, everything is through dev websites. They wouldn’t be able to lock Mac down as they have iOS just due to the usage and the fact MacOS didn’t start off like that. 

[Fatih19]

"Competition is a sin." - John D Rockefeller.

[straight_stewie]

On 10/16/2020 at 6:49 PM, Uttamattamakin said:

Will there be a card they can put in that will empower them to run ARM code at native speed?

If by "card" you mean "software compiled for that OS on that architecture", then yes. They'll have to distribute the SDK, otherwise they will start losing users when they realize that literally no software exists for their machine.

 

 

On 10/16/2020 at 6:49 PM, Uttamattamakin said:

The most interesting question is can a discrete GPU work with an Apple silicon mac?  

Maybe. That depends on who's responsibility is what. If Apple is smart, they'll develop some PCI-e IP for their new processors, that way they can just distribute the privileged SDK to hardware manufacturers and they can start providing drivers that will allow their existing cards to work.

If Apple is even smarter, they'll contract with one of the three major desktop GPU manufacturers (well, soon to be three anyway) to get them to produce some variants designed specifically to work with some proprietary solution because that sounds flipping GREAT for marketing, and has the highly profitable side effect of requiring your users to purchase all upgrade and repair parts from you, which fits very nicely with Apples current repair infrastructure. Now that I think about it, they'll end up partnering with Nvidia, to get those sweet, sweet discounts on ARM licensing fees.

 

 

 

 

As an aside, it's not like ARM is some newfangled thing that no one knows how to use. Yet again Apple has managed to pull off being behind while making it seem like they are these huge innovators. But whatever. The vast majority of consumer compute devices (including home appliances) run an ARM processor of some type. Windows and Linux already have versions for ARM, and pretty much every cellphone (smart or not, and including iPhones) uses an ARM processor.

[Donut417]

10 hours ago, dizmo said:

Apple was going to do it regardless of Intel. Blaming them makes absolutely no sense. If they were truly doing it only because they were mad at Intel, they'd have just gone with AMD to stick it to Intel twice; both with lost revenue, and helping their competitor.

Intel pushed them to this. This is the same shit that happen during the Power PC days. Why the fuck would you rely on a 3rd party for something as important as a CPU when you can design one your self? The last few generations Intel has not hit any of its targets. Granted Apple might have done this in the future some time, I believe Intel inability to progress is the reason they are doing it now. Intel got stuck, just like IBM did. Apple switch to Intel due to this. Now that Intel is stuck Apple doesn't want to rely on a 3rd party. Because no offense but AMD did have a decade of doing jack shit. Apple is not going to fall in to that crap again.