The bicycle thread

[sub68]

I honestly forgot to post this.

This is me and my dad's bikes before we went to a trail last week for a little ride.

First time for my Schwinn after I had it tuned up and got replacement brakes, tire.

Afterwards are bikes are covered in gravel dust.

What my dads bike computer showed.

[YellowJersey]

70km today in 3h 33min.
Total km this year: 100km

 

 Had to seriously alter my route to avoid more crowded areas of the bike trails, which means riding on the road. I'm really looking forward to the large scale adoption of EVs and the death of the ICE so I can ride my bike without those damned fumes. It's the smell... if there is such a thing.

[sub68]

Just now, YellowJersey said:

damned fumes. It's the smell... if there is such a thing.

I just finnished tilling a small garden and its a two stroke premix engine so I just smell oil and gas premix.

also my work gloves smell like gas.

[YellowJersey]

72km today! It was ridiculously hot. My bike computer read 38C at one point. I went through 3L of water over the first 50km. Hit the wall around 62km due to the heat and a bad headwind. I think I might be a little bit dehydrated, so I'm drinking a lot of water. It's really nice on the balcony right now.

 

 Saw a bald eagle and a beaver today.

 

Total distance this year so far: 172km

[12345678]

I don't understand

 

why are bike so expensive?

 

the prime matter is fairly cheap, doesn't really matter what material they do use, it's still cheap; manufacturing is too

and also if you do consider that most of the bikes are manufactured in big scales, they should be even cheaper

 

the design is pretty standard

 

to be fair you can get bike for cheap from manufacturers, but they do always require big orders

 

my guess for the cost, is just because they can afford to price em like that

[Commodus]

12 minutes ago, 12345678 said:

I don't understand

 

why are bike so expensive?

 

the prime matter is fairly cheap, doesn't really matter what material they do use, it's still cheap; manufacturing is too

and also if you do consider that most of the bikes are manufactured in big scales, they should be even cheaper

 

the design is pretty standard

 

to be fair you can get bike for cheap from manufacturers, but they do always require big orders

 

my guess for the cost, is just because they can afford to price em like that

It all comes down to the components.

 

Yeah, a basic, single-speed bike with a standard chain and pad brakes should be cheap. But a good multi-speed system? Belt drive? Disc brakes (especially hydraulic discs)? Those all cost extra, even if the bike otherwise has the same frame material.

[12345678]

5 minutes ago, Commodus said:

It all comes down to the components.

 

Yeah, a basic, single-speed bike with a standard chain and pad brakes should be cheap. But a good multi-speed system? Belt drive? Disc brakes (especially hydraulic discs)? Those all cost extra, even if the bike otherwise has the same frame material.

even those are cheap to manufacturer.

gears and disk bracket are easily cnc cutted, or they do use a type of press, that cuts straight into the metal sheet

 

most of the time, not every thing is sourced from the same factory, they do source different pieces from different fabrics and assemble em there to save on costs

 

bikes, from a manufacturer can be bought for pretty low prices (50~70usd), but they require you to buy containers of bikes, which obviously for a consumer is not ideal;

so I guess that whoever is reselling those bikes, wants a nice cut out of them

[minibois]

1 hour ago, 12345678 said:

why are bike so expensive?

 

the prime matter is fairly cheap, doesn't really matter what material they do use, it's still cheap; manufacturing is too

and also if you do consider that most of the bikes are manufactured in big scales, they should be even cheaper

What sort of bicycles are you talking about? And what kind of pricing are you talking about?

For example, where I live, everyone has a bicycle. That might not even be an overstatement. The average person here has 1.3 bicycles. Of course there are people who don't have bicycles and people who have two+ bicycles, but it'd difficult to find someone who doesn't have a bicycle.

The abundance of bicycles, means there are lots of options, including in the cheaper range.

 

Most bicycles here are one of two types:

- Oma fiets

- "The slightly more luxurious normal bicycle"

Both are meant for a commute, without many hills nor any rough terrain (asphalt/stone street only).

The former can be found for as little as 180 euros, while the latter comes in a variety of prices, but something about the 300 euro mark is not weird to see.

 

50-70 USD is probably just not do-able, because the stores selling it also have to make a profit, but also have operating costs, including their costs in getting the bicycles to retail locations for example.

Other than that, quality control from the manufacturer side is probably a bit more important too, but that is just a guess.

[12345678]

1 minute ago, minibois said:

What sort of bicycles are you talking about? And what kind of pricing are you talking about?

For example, where I live, everyone has a bicycle. That might not even be an overstatement. The average person here has 1.3 bicycles. Of course there are people who don't have bicycles and people who have two+ bicycles, but it'd difficult to find someone who doesn't have a bicycle.

The abundance of bicycles, means there are lots of options, including in the cheaper range.

 

Most bicycles here are one of two types:

- Oma fiets

- "The slightly more luxurious normal bicycle"

Both are meant for a commute, without many hills nor any rough terrain (asphalt/stone street only).

The former can be found for as little as 180 euros, while the latter comes in a variety of prices, but something about the 300 euro mark is not weird to see.

here the lowest price that you can find is 200 euros, but they can rage well past of it

there are also some niche markets like specialized, where bikes cost 15k

 

I find just weird such prices, and how they manage to sell em, when the design is fairly copy and pasted with each one

1 minute ago, minibois said:

50-70 USD is probably just not do-able, because the stores selling it also have to make a profit, but also have operating costs, including their costs in getting the bicycles to retail locations for example.

Other than that, quality control from the manufacturer side is probably a bit more important too, but that is just a guess.

yes, but I do see that here the business, is to resell chinese crap x more times than the original price; and it's not just the bikes, why would I even buy from a local store, if I can just bypass it, and source from the manufacturer? for bikes I can't, the shipping is too expensive, so I'm just complaining how such market is overpriced, and I don't want to pay for it, though I'll do it, because I have no time to do one diy

[Commodus]

Just now, 12345678 said:

even those are cheap to manufacturer.

gears and disk bracket are easily cnc cutted, or they do use a type of press, that cuts straight into the metal sheet

 

most of the time, not every thing is sourced from the same factory, they do source different pieces from different fabrics and assemble em there to save on costs

 

bikes, from a manufacturer can be bought for pretty low prices (50~70usd), but they require you to buy containers of bikes, which obviously for a consumer is not ideal;

so I guess that whoever is reselling those bikes, wants a nice cut out of them

How do you know they're cheap to manufacture? Do you have an inside line on bike assembly that we're not privy to? Designs cost money; more complex systems may involved more advanced manufacturing processes that limit production yields. And let's not forget hidden costs like patent licensing and R&D.

 

Again, that's not to excuse every last cent of a bike's price, but it's important to remember that producing a bike involves more than just cutting metal and rubber into different shapes and slapping them together.

[minibois]

9 minutes ago, 12345678 said:

there are also some niche markets like specialized, where bikes cost 15k

Well in really any industry, you would be able to find examples of exorbitant pricing.

Just think of cars. There are second hand cars only costing a couple hundred euros, but you could spend millions on a car too.

Same goes with bicycles, PC's, keyboards, etc. I don't think it's fair to compare those sort "super expensive" products, with the commodity goods.

11 minutes ago, 12345678 said:

I find just weird such prices, and how they manage to sell em, when the design is fairly copy and pasted with each one

Not sure about your experience buying bicycles, but one of the most important things about a bicycle is its comfort, which is something that can only be judged by going to a place and trying out different options.

These stores of course also have their overhead. Other than buying bicycles and getting them to stores, they also need to pay rent on building, wages to employees, etc. etc., so I don't think a 70 euro > 200-300 euro price increase is that exorbitant.

 

If there weren't stores, I'd be taking a gamble on a 70 euro bicycle, with the risk of buying a container of bicycles I'll not like. By buying from a store, you are essentially forced to finance their gamble on those bikes and any overhead associated with it.

14 minutes ago, 12345678 said:

I'm just complaining how such market is overpriced, and I don't want to pay for it, though I'll do it, because I have no time to do one diy

Of course I understand where you're coming from, but I also understand the perspective from the stores. Selling bikes at cost is just not something they are interested in, I think.

These are products with a lot of overhead associated, they need to cover that somehow.

 

Plus, you can look at a purchase and its price in different ways.

What you showed was mostly talking about the price with the context of the price of the original materials/design and then talking about the price vs. purchasing a bunch of OEM models from Asia.

The other way of looking at it, would be what I tried to bring up earlier in the post, the buying experience of trying out bicycles and picking out the right model for you.

Another way of looking at it, is the money a product could save you. If a bicycle is comfortable and your commute allows for it, it can be a perfect replacement for a car ride to school/work/supermarket/etc. and the money you save comes from not having to spend the gas(oline) money you would otherwise spend.

 

On some level, this sort of reminds me of threads where people are talking about Quadro vs. GeForce. How these products might have the some GPU inside of it, but with very different pricing associated, because of the level of support Quadros have.

The OEM bicycles in this comparison would be GeForce cards, way cheaper, but less 'support' (in terms of shipping for non-bulk orders), where-as the Quadros are the more expensive option, but with better 'support' (in terms of easily getting a bike/testing out multiple options), with different prices.

 

These are all equally valid ways to look at the price of a product and I am not fully siding with stores either. I am mostly saying "OEM bikes form Asia are 25% the cost of an equal bicycle you buy in Europe" is a bit too simple to say, when this is a multi-dimensional story with different perspectives.

In the end, the only party I do side with, is the consumer side, as that is the side that aligns most closely to me, but I don't believe the stores are ripping people off, they are just providing a certain service and charging a certain amount of money for it.

[12345678]

23 minutes ago, minibois said:

Well in really any industry, you would be able to find examples of exorbitant pricing.

Just think of cars. There are second hand cars only costing a couple hundred euros, but you could spend millions on a car too.

Same goes with bicycles, PC's, keyboards, etc. I don't think it's fair to compare those sort "super expensive" products, with the commodity goods.

Not sure about your experience buying bicycles, but one of the most important things about a bicycle is its comfort, which is something that can only be judged by going to a place and trying out different options.

These stores of course also have their overhead. Other than buying bicycles and getting them to stores, they also need to pay rent on building, wages to employees, etc. etc., so I don't think a 70 euro > 200-300 euro price increase is that exorbitant.

 

If there weren't stores, I'd be taking a gamble on a 70 euro bicycle, with the risk of buying a container of bicycles I'll not like. By buying from a store, you are essentially forced to finance their gamble on those bikes and any overhead associated with it.

Of course I understand where you're coming from, but I also understand the perspective from the stores. Selling bikes at cost is just not something they are interested in, I think.

These are products with a lot of overhead associated, they need to cover that somehow.

 

Plus, you can look at a purchase and its price in different ways.

What you showed was mostly talking about the price with the context of the price of the original materials/design and then talking about the price vs. purchasing a bunch of OEM models from Asia.

The other way of looking at it, would be what I tried to bring up earlier in the post, the buying experience of trying out bicycles and picking out the right model for you.

Another way of looking at it, is the money a product could save you. If a bicycle is comfortable and your commute allows for it, it can be a perfect replacement for a car ride to school/work/supermarket/etc. and the money you save comes from not having to spend the gas(oline) money you would otherwise spend.

 

On some level, this sort of reminds me of threads where people are talking about Quadro vs. GeForce. How these products might have the some GPU inside of it, but with very different pricing associated, because of the level of support Quadros have.

The OEM bicycles in this comparison would be GeForce cards, way cheaper, but less 'support' (in terms of shipping for non-bulk orders), where-as the Quadros are the more expensive option, but with better 'support' (in terms of easily getting a bike/testing out multiple options), with different prices.

 

These are all equally valid ways to look at the price of a product and I am not fully siding with stores either. I am mostly saying "OEM bikes form Asia are 25% the cost of an equal bicycle you buy in Europe" is a bit too simple to say, when this is a multi-dimensional story with different perspectives.

In the end, the only party I do side with, is the consumer side, as that is the side that aligns most closely to me, but I don't believe the stores are ripping people off, they are just providing a certain service and charging a certain amount of money for it.

you're right

 

but I'm butthurt that I'll get an overpriced bike that I don't like, just because I do need a bike as fast as possible; I could do some diy bikes, but I can't because I don't have enough time to do one, because I need it within the day after tomorrow

 

also it was to confirm my suspects, or if I was missing something, because the prime matter is cheap, manufacturing is too, the design it's (most of the time) just slammed all over again in different bikes, even in niches and expensive bikes

[YellowJersey]

6 hours ago, 12345678 said:

you're right

 

but I'm butthurt that I'll get an overpriced bike that I don't like, just because I do need a bike as fast as possible; I could do some diy bikes, but I can't because I don't have enough time to do one, because I need it within the day after tomorrow

 

also it was to confirm my suspects, or if I was missing something, because the prime matter is cheap, manufacturing is too, the design it's (most of the time) just slammed all over again in different bikes, even in niches and expensive bikes

I haven't bought a bike in about 10 years, so I don't know much about how the market has changed in that time. One thing I have noticed is that bikes have become way more expensive. In 2007 I got a Giant OCR-3 for $600. Nowadays, there's nothing in that sub-$1000 price range, at least not for anything decent.

[sub68]

Tomorrow is the last day of a 150 mile bike trip with a bunch of friends.

Today my right leg was cramping.

I think it's cause I haven't done enough biking beforehand.

So today I was on my dad's converted ebike to ease my pain, last mile was down hill and I was ripping it at 20mph. 

[Derkoli]

On 6/7/2021 at 10:58 PM, YellowJersey said:

I haven't bought a bike in about 10 years, so I don't know much about how the market has changed in that time. One thing I have noticed is that bikes have become way more expensive. In 2007 I got a Giant OCR-3 for $600. Nowadays, there's nothing in that sub-$1000 price range, at least not for anything decent.

Everything is trending towards being integrated and optimized for stiffness/weight ratios. Atleast it seems that way.

 

I curse internal cable routing. Luckily only my dropper post is routed internally, but god when it comes to ripping the cables out every 3 months to replace everything I hate it.

[Guest]

On 6/8/2021 at 1:11 AM, 12345678 said:

I don't understand

 

why are bike so expensive?

 

the prime matter is fairly cheap, doesn't really matter what material they do use, it's still cheap; manufacturing is too

and also if you do consider that most of the bikes are manufactured in big scales, they should be even cheaper

 

the design is pretty standard

 

to be fair you can get bike for cheap from manufacturers, but they do always require big orders

 

my guess for the cost, is just because they can afford to price em like that

There are like two manufacturers who make groupsets worth buying, Shimano and SRAM. Add expensive carbon or aluminium frames into the mix and you have an expensive bike. Always worth buying second-hand for a road bike tbh. 

[kelvinhall05]

til (well, a few days ago) if you bike fast enough you can totally hydroplane across a river /s

Spoiler

Finally getting a chance to properly test the BB7s (hot weather and plenty of time for long rides) and man they are so damn good.

[Kadzo]

On 6/13/2021 at 4:46 AM, kelvinhall05 said:

til (well, a few days ago) if you bike fast enough you can totally hydroplane across a river /s

  Reveal hidden contents

Finally getting a chance to properly test the BB7s (hot weather and plenty of time for long rides) and man they are so damn good.

I had BB7 for a season and dumped them as soon i was able to afford Shimano SLX hydraulics If you have to take the wheels off often they are a pain in the but to setup and after a couple of miles noisy AF (i changed the pads multiple time, changed the rotors, tried cleaning etc etc etc.)  

[Kadzo]

On 6/13/2021 at 4:24 AM, RorzNZ said:

There are like two manufacturers who make groupsets worth buying, Shimano and SRAM. Add expensive carbon or aluminium frames into the mix and you have an expensive bike. Always worth buying second-hand for a road bike tbh. 

This is a thing for MTB`s also, for an example in my country to get a new bike from the official importer it will be marked up close to 60% over the recommended value from the manufacturer. 

So you have 2 options buy used, or go out the state by there and smuggle it back here  

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Kadzo said:

This is a thing for MTB`s also, for an example in my country to get a new bike from the official importer it will be marked up close to 60% over the recommended value from the manufacturer. 

So you have 2 options buy used, or go out the state by there and smuggle it back here  

Prices are generally high atm cause everyone went nuts during COVID. Was lucky to pick up my Trek Roscoe 8 before the price increase. Have a new eBike now which bought with the COVID tax, expensive but worth it haha. 

[Kadzo]

Just as a reference here is my current one

 

Its a Specialized carve expert 29" 

Deore shifters

SLX brakes

Rockshock reba 100m

Rear derailleur shimano XT shadow 2x10

 

Not much but it was the best i can afford at that moment, now i am considering selling it so i can uprage. 

 

 

[Kadzo]

On 1/6/2021 at 8:12 AM, hihihi8 said:

Specs in pics: 

Frame+Fork: ICAN A2 51cm

Shifters: SRAM Red22

RD: SRAM Red22

FD: SRAM Red22

Crankset: Campagnolo Super Record 2017

Chain: PYC SP-1101

Pedals: Carbon fiber flats (No clipless for me)

Stem: Extralite HyperStem 90mm

Handlebars: FSA Extralight 42cm

Saddle: Tuned Aliexpress carbon saddle

Seatpost: Tuned Aliexpress carbon seatpost

Bar Tape: Tesa 51608 Fleece Harness Tape

Wheelset: Farsports FSD25T-23UL tubular rims laced to Extralite CyberHubs 16H/24H with Berd polylight fiber spokes and sapim alloy nipples

Tires: (Front) Veloflex Record tubular, (Rear) Veloflex Sprinter tubular

Brakes: Ciamillo Zero-Gravity first-gen

Brake Housing: Knock off jagwire link housing

Shift Housing: Shimano SP41

QR Skewers: Lifeline Titanium Generic stuff

 

Weight in pics: 4.987kg/10.99lbs

Just out of curiosity why no cliplles? 

[kelvinhall05]

2 hours ago, Kadzo said:

I had BB7 for a season and dumped them as soon i was able to afford Shimano SLX hydraulics If you have to take the wheels off often they are a pain in the but to setup and after a couple of miles noisy AF (i changed the pads multiple time, changed the rotors, tried cleaning etc etc etc.)  

As far as I can tell, the noise comes from pad type, not pad condition or alignment or something. 

[Kadzo]

2 minutes ago, kelvinhall05 said:

As far as I can tell, the noise comes from pad type, not pad condition or alignment or something. 

well i tried to get to the bottom of the noise but after multiple pad changes (even after using the original or the replacement ones) and after rotor changes i gave up sold them i upgraded to my current ones, which are IMO best for that money you can have. 

I did a bleed after a year and that`s that for maintenance. 

Also rotor pad-alignment in BB7 is a pain in the ass if you have to take off the wheels often (which i do) with SLX its a 2 minute job and with BB7 i would spend up the 10 min just to stop rubbing the pads with rotors (that noise is something i get triggered on) 

[kelvinhall05]

29 minutes ago, Kadzo said:

well i tried to get to the bottom of the noise but after multiple pad changes (even after using the original or the replacement ones) and after rotor changes i gave up sold them i upgraded to my current ones, which are IMO best for that money you can have. 

I did a bleed after a year and that`s that for maintenance. 

Also rotor pad-alignment in BB7 is a pain in the ass if you have to take off the wheels often (which i do) with SLX its a 2 minute job and with BB7 i would spend up the 10 min just to stop rubbing the pads with rotors (that noise is something i get triggered on) 

Interesting, I found I could get what I believe is good pad alignment with a combination of the "loosen caliper bolts, clamp the brake lever, tighten caliper bolts" along with just kinda eyeballing it.

 

I was considering hydraulics but on my bike it would've been significantly more work to install, a lot more work to maintain, and overall significantly more expensive for little to no benefit.