Why do I need a dedicated video card

[GregM]

I need to build a new media PC for my 4K TV.  Everyone tells me I need a dedicated graphics card.

But, if I use a gen9 I5 that can do 4K @ 60Hz and a motherboard that has HDMI 2.0b and DP1.4 output why would I need a separate dedicated graphics card?

[williamcll]

No, the i5's integrated GPU will be enough for media.

[Constantin]

For movies, you will be just fine!

[GregM]

Thank you both

I'm looking at a ASUS ROG Strix Z390-I Gaming LGA1151-CL mITX Desktop Motherboard and a Intel Core i5 9600K 3.7GHz Coffee Lake R 6 Core 6 Thread LGA1151-CL and 16Gb or 2666Mhz RAM.  Do you think that will work?

[cesh me inside b0z]

2 minutes ago, GregM said:

Thank you both

I'm looking at a ASUS ROG Strix Z390-I Gaming LGA1151-CL mITX Desktop Motherboard and a Intel Core i5 9600K 3.7GHz Coffee Lake R 6 Core 6 Thread LGA1151-CL and 16Gb or 2666Mhz RAM.  Do you think that will work?

Are you just using the PC for video?

 

If so a AM3 or socket 775 build would be enough with a lower powered recent video card costing far, far less.

[Jurrunio]

2 minutes ago, GregM said:

Thank you both

I'm looking at a ASUS ROG Strix Z390-I Gaming LGA1151-CL mITX Desktop Motherboard and a Intel Core i5 9600K 3.7GHz Coffee Lake R 6 Core 6 Thread LGA1151-CL and 16Gb or 2666Mhz RAM.  Do you think that will work?

those are way too overkill for watching movies

 

14 minutes ago, GregM said:

why would I need a separate dedicated graphics card?

for performance, gaming in 3D worlds for example.

[GrockleTD]

 

1 minute ago, cesh me inside b0z said:

Are you just using the PC for video?

 

If so a AM3 or socket 775 build would be enough with a lower powered recent video card costing far, far less.

Personally I would do Athlon 200GE, better for in case they decide to do something more intense with their pc later on

[JoostinOnline]

The people you're talking to obviously don't know that much about computers, or they think you expect to play games.

[GregM]

I am not a gamer and the only other thing that I might use it for is Youtube and Netflix (but they're both available on the Samsung QLED Q60 TV).

The selected motherboard, CPU and RAM will cost ~$800 AUD.  A GPU will cost me around $550 AUD and then I still need to pay for a motherboard, CPU and RAM. I can't see how that is economical. 

I have a video library on my NAS (~25Tb) all in MKV format, hence the reason for the PC to be connected to my Home Theatre system. The only software server that I have found to natively handle MKV is Twonky, but it's a bit flaky and doesn't update the list too well.

 

 

[HanZie82]

I would suggest one of the newer Ryzen CPU's, The cheapest with a intergrated GPU. A correct motherboard and RAM.
That would have the built in GPU have the latest decoding hardware so all 1080p and even 4K is rendered via hardware which will improve speed tremendously.

 

edit: Maybe something like this. And it might be a little more expensive than really necessary but this has an upgrade path so if you eventually wanna game on it you dont have to buy a whole new machine. And if just for video it should last you over a decade.

PCPartPicker Part List

Type	Item	Price
CPU	AMD Ryzen 3 3200G 3.6 GHz Quad-Core Processor	$138.00 @ Shopping Express
Motherboard	MSI B450M PRO-M2 MAX Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard	$98.00 @ Shopping Express
Memory	Crucial 8 GB (2 x 4 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory	$68.20 @ Newegg Australia
Storage	Kingston A400 120 GB 2.5" Solid State Drive	$29.95 @ Amazon Australia
Power Supply	Cooler Master MWE Bronze V2 450 W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply	$65.00 @ PCCaseGear
	Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts
	Total	$399.15
	Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-02-03 15:42 AEDT+1100

(Not 100% sure about the PSU, that might need some further research).
Oh forgot to check for motherboard spec, this one doesnt do 4K@60Hz. Im sure there are other that would.

[Electronics Wizardy]

12 minutes ago, GregM said:

I am not a gamer and the only other thing that I might use it for is Youtube and Netflix (but they're both available on the Samsung QLED Q60 TV).

The selected motherboard, CPU and RAM will cost ~$800 AUD.  A GPU will cost me around $550 AUD and then I still need to pay for a motherboard, CPU and RAM. I can't see how that is economical. 

I have a video library on my NAS (~25Tb) all in MKV format, hence the reason for the PC to be connected to my Home Theatre system. The only software server that I have found to natively handle MKV is Twonky, but it's a bit flaky and doesn't update the list too well.

 

 

how would a gpu cost you 550 aud? There are much cheaper models that will workfine here.

 

You can get a much cheaper setup freo this use,a 2200g will be more than plenty, or even a basic arm system may be fine.

[GregM]

I had to buy a new GPU for one of my other PCs (msi GeForce RTX 2060) which doesn't even do 4K at 60fps and that cost $550AUD, so I'm guessing any card that does 4K at 60fps will cost more.  I would appreciate any info on cheaper GPUs that will do the job as that may change my decision.

Another factor for me is no overclocking as I want to keep the noise to a minimum which means everything needs to run cooler without lots of fans/noise.

[JoostinOnline]

20 minutes ago, GregM said:

I had to buy a new GPU for one of my other PCs (msi GeForce RTX 2060) which doesn't even do 4K at 60fps and that cost $550AUD, so I'm guessing any card that does 4K at 60fps will cost more.

The difference between playing a video file that's 4k 60fps and rendering a game at 4k 60fps is massive. With a video file, all the hard work is already done. What makes you think an RTX 2060 can't play a video at 4k?

[vong]

1 hour ago, GregM said:

I need to build a new media PC for my 4K TV.  Everyone tells me I need a dedicated graphics card.

But, if I use a gen9 I5 that can do 4K @ 60Hz and a motherboard that has HDMI 2.0b and DP1.4 output why would I need a separate dedicated graphics card?

You can use a gpu to increase the quality of videos. I use one in my htpc with MPC-BE and MadVr.

 

I have a brand new, just purchased 1660 Ti from Mwave if you're interested.

[GregM]

Yes, the RTX 2060 can play 4K but only at 30fps.

 

My initial question was to make sure I can run 4k @ 60fps via the CPU and on a motherboard that outputs hdmi 2.0 and dp 1.4.

Part of that is to reduce costs, but also to reduce noise and to have a simple build. I suspect putting in a GPU will increase heat and cause more noise with cooling.

I am looking into the Ryzen CPUs, but it appears only a couple have integrated graphics (eg. AMD Ryzen™ 5 3400G with Radeon™ RX Vega 11 Graphics) @ $225 AUD and the associated motherboard is expensive (ASUS ROG Strix X570-I Gaming AM4 mITX Desktop Motherboard) @ $439 AUD, so the difference in price appears to be minimal.  I suspect that the integrated graphics is better on the Ryzen, so thank you all for suggesting AMD.

 

As you can see I'm not trying to do this totally on the cheap.

[ZzLy]

8 hours ago, GregM said:

I need to build a new media PC for my 4K TV.  Everyone tells me I need a dedicated graphics card.

But, if I use a gen9 I5 that can do 4K @ 60Hz and a motherboard that has HDMI 2.0b and DP1.4 output why would I need a separate dedicated graphics card?

I5 should be enough, in fact you don't really need a 9th gen one as 6 cores is a bit overkill for simple mediaplayback. Also, if you don't need HDR support then you don't need HDMI 2.0b, older gens that support 4k60 should be fine.

[HanZie82]

10 hours ago, GregM said:

I had to buy a new GPU for one of my other PCs (msi GeForce RTX 2060) which doesn't even do 4K at 60fps and that cost $550AUD, so I'm guessing any card that does 4K at 60fps will cost more.  I would appreciate any info on cheaper GPUs that will do the job as that may change my decision.

Another factor for me is no overclocking as I want to keep the noise to a minimum which means everything needs to run cooler without lots of fans/noise.

Ive got a previous version GTX 1060 6GB and that already does 4K 60Hz decoding.

If it can actualy output that res and Hz is up to the connection.

Theres a huuuge difference between hardware video decoding and ability to play games.

 

ps, hardest part is finding a reasonably priced motherboard with HDMI2.0

[tech.guru]

Quote

I need to build a new media PC for my 4K TV.  Everyone tells me I need a dedicated graphics card.

But, if I use a gen9 I5 that can do 4K @ 60Hz and a motherboard that has HDMI 2.0b and DP1.4 output why would I need a separate dedicated graphics card?

Quote

I am not a gamer and the only other thing that I might use it for is Youtube and Netflix (but they're both available on the Samsung QLED Q60 TV).

The selected motherboard, CPU and RAM will cost ~$800 AUD.  A GPU will cost me around $550 AUD and then I still need to pay for a motherboard, CPU and RAM. I can't see how that is economical. 

I have a video library on my NAS (~25Tb) all in MKV format, hence the reason for the PC to be connected to my Home Theatre system. The only software server that I have found to natively handle MKV is Twonky, but it's a bit flaky and doesn't update the list too well.

 

there is a big difference between decoding playback, and encoding on the fly to stream to tvs in a compatible format. encoding video puts much more stress on the CPU, 4k i imagine would be impossible without a very high end CPU.

 

whereas, adding a video card especially one that supports NVENC is actually designed for this and can do it quite well, so this is the age old question... depends.

if you are just playing back video and outputing through HDMI thats fine using on board video.

 

if you are  re-encoding and streaming video for DLNA enabled devices, across the network. well, an external card would be very good idea to accelerate the encoding workload and ensure no stutters and framedrops. GPU (if the software is optimized) can accelerate video encoding dramatically compared to just having a CPU.

 

 

 

[Godlygamer23]

12 hours ago, GregM said:

I am not a gamer and the only other thing that I might use it for is Youtube and Netflix (but they're both available on the Samsung QLED Q60 TV).

The selected motherboard, CPU and RAM will cost ~$800 AUD.  A GPU will cost me around $550 AUD and then I still need to pay for a motherboard, CPU and RAM. I can't see how that is economical. 

I have a video library on my NAS (~25Tb) all in MKV format, hence the reason for the PC to be connected to my Home Theatre system. The only software server that I have found to natively handle MKV is Twonky, but it's a bit flaky and doesn't update the list too well.

 

 

What kind of NAS are you running? 

[boggy77]

this should do just fine. motherboard has both dp and hdmi.

PCPartPicker Part List

Type	Item	Price
CPU	AMD Athlon 3000G 3.5 GHz Dual-Core Processor	$78.00 @ Shopping Express
Motherboard	MSI B450I GAMING PLUS AC Mini ITX AM4 Motherboard	$189.00 @ Austin Computers
Memory	Team T-FORCE VULCAN Z 8 GB (2 x 4 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory	$68.00 @ Skycomp Technology
	Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts
	Total	$335.00
	Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-02-04 03:46 AEDT+1100

 

[HanZie82]

7 hours ago, boggy77 said:

this should do just fine. motherboard has both dp and hdmi.

PCPartPicker Part List

Type	Item	Price
CPU	AMD Athlon 3000G 3.5 GHz Dual-Core Processor	$78.00 @ Shopping Express
Motherboard	MSI B450I GAMING PLUS AC Mini ITX AM4 Motherboard	$189.00 @ Austin Computers
Memory	Team T-FORCE VULCAN Z 8 GB (2 x 4 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory	$68.00 @ Skycomp Technology
	Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts
	Total	$335.00
	Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-02-04 03:46 AEDT+1100

 

That motherboard wont do 4K@60Hz over HDMI tho.

[GregM]

I'm running a QNAP TS-453 Pro with 2Gb RAM and 4*8Tb WD Red HDD in RAID 5.  I also have a couple of 12TB WD RED HDDs in my main PC for other movies that aren't as popular.

 

Thanks for everyone's help on this.  It is interesting to see the preference for AMD CPU's.  I don't have a problem with that and am still investigating.

 

Currently, I've gone back to looking at Plex as a solution that doesn't require the purchase of a PC.  I was sure that I read (sometime ago) that Plex wouldn't handle MKV, but I downloaded the current version and it seems to handle MKV OK, although I suspect some movies may fail (I have over 1100 movies/TV Series in DVD and Bluray).  If there's only a few that fail I can just convert those.  I think the QNAP isn't powerful enough to adequately drive Plex Server, but it seemed worthwhile given both my Samsung TVs can have the Plex App installed. I have no plans to upgrade my NAS.

 

I ran Plex for a while today and apart from some initial buffering at the start of the movie, it seems to work OK, but with only 1 movie being played at a time.

 

As stated above, if I do go down the PC path, it must have an HDMI 2.0a or better output as there are no DP inputs on the TVs.

[GregM]

Hi tech.guru

Thanks for info.  If I do go down the PC path and the CPU/motherboard solution is insufficient, I can still purchase and install a video card.  That's the backstop plan.