Europeans Continue to Flock to AMD

[Flying Sausages]

https://www.tomshardware.com/uk/news/amd-vs-intel-market-share-cpus-europe-research

 

Quote

As reported by The Independent today, AMD CPUS were found in 7% of the 5.07 million systems that were shipped to European retailers and resellers in 2018. Those numbers have risen, with AMD's chips now being found in 12% of laptops and desktops, even as the total number of shipments rose to 5.24 million. That means shipments of AMD-powered systems rose from 355,000 units to 629,000 units in a year.

That growth was highest in the retail market, where AMD's share of shipments rose from 11% last year to 18% this year. Shipments of business-targeting PCs featuring AMD processors also jumped from 5% to 8%. It's not like Intel's majority share of the market is in danger--especially where business customers are concerned--but AMD's growth shows that companies are willing to consider other solutions.

Not that Intel's taking all this lying down. Last week, the company sent us the following statement in response to a report on HP and Lenovo bemoaning its CPU shortage:

"We are actively working to address the supply-demand challenge, and we expect supply in the second half will be up compared to the first half. We continue to prioritize available output toward the newest generation Intel Core products that support our customers’ high-growth segments and we plan to further increase our output capacity in 2020."

AMD STOCK MARKET IN EUROPEANS STONK

 

But holy micky mouse, I never expect Ryzen computers shortage in Europeans is this bad. I guess Ryzen cpu live through the hype. I wonder if Intel 10th gen mobile cpu will make a comeback? I don't know, but time and money will tell.

 

 

 

 

[mr moose]

This has been attributed as much to intel's inability to meet demand as it is about end users actively seeking out AMD hardware.

[Firewrath9]

13 minutes ago, Caroline said:

companies be like

I mean MS and Lenovo have made some pretty decent AMD systems (new surface and T495s)

AMD still has to catch up the mobile front, sadly they probably won't have zen 2 until next year. The new intel 6c12t 15W procs could do pretty well with an undervolt and a repaste (to stop thermal throttling). I kinda want get MSI's prestige 14, but thats a sidegrade from my current laptop. 

[Arika]

14 minutes ago, Caroline said:

companies be like

Replace intel with anything and AMD with what ever anything's competitors is and you have how people work

 

 

Eg

IPhone, android

MaC, windows

Automatic transmission, manual

Car, motorcycle

Legs, no legs

 

[mr moose]

2 minutes ago, Firewrath9 said:

I mean MS and Lenovo have made some pretty decent AMD systems (new surface and T495s)

AMD still has to catch up the mobile front, sadly they probably won't have zen 2 until next year. The new intel 6c12t 15W procs could do pretty well with an undervolt and a repaste (to stop thermal throttling). I kinda want get MSI's prestige 14, but thats a sidegrade from my current laptop. 

I can see AMD only getting much bigger in the laptop space, so long as they keep on the development path and maintain good alternatives that is.  It will take time but at the moment they have the hardware and are in the fortunate position with their only competition being hamstrung by its own supply issues.

[minibois]

2 minutes ago, Arika S said:

Replace intel with anything and AMD with what ever anything's competitors is and you have how people work

 

Eg

IPhone, android

MaC, windows

Automatic transmission, manual

Car, motorcycle

Legs, no legs

With iOS vs. Android or MacOS vs. Windows you could make the 'used to it' argument. 

Those things have a vastly different user interface which you will use daily. 

 

Intel vs. AMD on the other hand has little to nothing to get 'used to' though. One might argue installing the CPU is different.. But that is not something to 'get used to'. In daily use the experience will be all but the same between the two as well.

That is kind of what makes this meme funny, but also way too relocatable to me. I often have people say they want Intel because they are 'used to it', but there is not really something to get used to..

[mr moose]

4 minutes ago, Arika S said:

Replace intel with anything and AMD with what ever anything's competitors is and you have how people work

 

 

Eg

IPhone, android

MaC, windows

Automatic transmission, manual

Car, motorcycle

Legs, no legs

 

 

This true in the original sense of the meme for general consumers, but for the corporate sphere they tend to stick to a specific brand or product because change brings unknown's and unknown's are hard to account for in business.  So it is much less a company thing and more a consumer thing.

[Firewrath9]

Just now, minibois said:

With iOS vs. Android or MacOS vs. Windows you could make the 'used to it' argument. 

Those things have a vastly different user interface which you will use daily. 

 

Intel vs. AMD on the other hand has little to nothing to get 'used to' though. One might argue installing the CPU is different.. But that is not something to 'get used to'. In daily use the experience will be all but the same between the two as well.

That is kind of what makes this meme funny, but also way too relocatable to me. I often have people say they want Intel because they are 'used to it', but there is not really something to get used to..

bUt lGa iS suPeRiOR tO PgA!1!1111

iNtel Has MOre SecUre. AlsO nO gLUe!

[vanished]

I can understand AMD still being behind in laptops, not only due to lack of top end chips but also due to lack of selection (although it's miles better than it ever was in the FX days, no surprise), and I can somewhat understand the popularity of Intel in business systems as well simply because of the iGPU.  Yes AMD has these too but they lag behind by one generation and are only offered on low-tier CPUs, not anything powerful like a 3900x.  What I don't understand is how the overall numbers aren't higher though.  Do business systems really make up that large of a portion of the total market?  Because as far as I can tell, in the aftermarket/enthusiast space (basically everyone on this forum, whether you're building high end stuff or not), AMD is currently outselling Intel 2:1

https://imgur.com/a/zbn2ttw

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, minibois said:

 I often have people say they want Intel because they are 'used to it', but there is not really something to get used to..

Except in the corporate world where there is a lot you get used to, like longevity and support expectations and compatibility issues.

 

Have to think more in terms of IT admin/management who have to answer to someone when a new systems doesn't work the way the old one does.

 

 

[yian88]

39 minutes ago, mr moose said:

This has been attributed as much to intel's inability to meet demand as it is about end users actively seeking out AMD hardware.

Yep, people are sick of garbage celeron, pentium, atom dual core laptops with 1999 GPU integrated for the price of a ryzen 5 3500U+Vega8 laptop which mops the floor with i7 quad laptops.

Fuck intel their overcharge premium for their mediocre iGPU chips, even in face of competition they refuse to abide to market competition, intel believes is some sort of apple and competition dont matter, well sales say a different story.

 

tYpiNg tHiS FrOm mY rYzeN 3 LepTeP !!  

[minibois]

15 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Except in the corporate world where there is a lot you get used to, like longevity and support expectations and compatibility issues.

 

Have to think more in terms of IT admin/management who have to answer to someone when a new systems doesn't work the way the old one does.

Sure, but I pictured this meme being pointed at regular consumers building a gaming PC, who make the argument of being more used to Intel.

18 minutes ago, Firewrath9 said:

bUt lGa iS suPeRiOR tO PgA!1!1111

iNtel Has MOre SecUre. AlsO nO gLUe!

aT LEasT TaKiNG ofF MY CoOLeR dOeSN't rEMoVe tHe CPu fROm tHe SocKeT!!!! - Shintel fans.

[vanished]

4 minutes ago, Caroline said:

If I get a 3900X it'll be to pair it with a high end dGPU, so also having the integrated would be pointless. IMO.

For you, me, and all gamers, yes, but for a business that maybe needs CPU power but not any GPU power, it would just be a waste

[mr moose]

43 minutes ago, yian88 said:

Yep, people are sick of garbage celeron, pentium, atom dual core laptops with 1999 GPU integrated for the price of a ryzen 5 3500U+Vega8 laptop which mops the floor with i7 quad laptops.

Fuck intel their overcharge premium for their mediocre iGPU chips, even in face of competition they refuse to abide to market competition, intel believes is some sort of apple and competition dont matter, well sales say a different story.

 

tYpiNg tHiS FrOm mY rYzeN 3 LepTeP !!  

huh? 

43 minutes ago, minibois said:

Sure, but I pictured this meme being pointed at regular consumers building a gaming PC, who make the argument of being more used to Intel.

aT LEasT TaKiNG ofF MY CoOLeR dOeSN't rEMoVe tHe CPu fROm tHe SocKeT!!!! - Shintel fans.

 

I haven't seen that, but I'll accept it happens.

[Deli]

1 hour ago, yian88 said:

Yep, people are sick of garbage celeron, pentium, atom dual core laptops with 1999 GPU integrated for the price of a ryzen 5 3500U+Vega8 laptop which mops the floor with i7 quad laptops.

Fuck intel their overcharge premium for their mediocre iGPU chips, even in face of competition they refuse to abide to market competition, intel believes is some sort of apple and competition dont matter, well sales say a different story.

 

tYpiNg tHiS FrOm mY rYzeN 3 LepTeP !!  

I just watch a few youtube reviews of the new Surface 3 laptop 15". The reviewers are very negative about Ryzen. I think those reviews will turn some potential customers away.

[TempestCatto]

2 hours ago, OlympicAssEater said:

I wonder if Intel 10th gen mobile cpu will make a comeback?

When I went laptop shopping with my grandparents, there were a few laptops with 10th gen Intel CPU's. Though, for browsing the internet with no more than a few tabs open, they don't need much. So we settled for an 8250u with 8gbs of whatever speed RAM (and an SSD). But I don't know that they're really any better than what's out there now. I think Intel will just have to stop making the older gen CPU's now if they want to push 10th gen. Even the guys at Best Buy said 10th gen is just meh. And when we tried those laptops, it's kinda hard to judge but for basic tasks, it's no different going from 8th to 10th gen. Plus the older gen laptops were a bit cheaper too.

[TempestCatto]

2 hours ago, Arika S said:

Legs, no legs

Spoiler

"Hello, yes? I'd like to order two functioning legs?"

 

"Yeah sure. What configuration?"

 

"Uhh..."

 

"Lemme help ya out here. What's the use case?"

 

"Just everyday tasks like walking, standing, lifting no more than 50lbs."

 

"Aight. You may want to consider the Lx 4320. 0.3mph base walking speed with a 1.2mph turbo boost. Good for 24/7 walking time and very cost effective."

 

"Sound like an order!"

 

"Great, that'll be 189.99 for the left, and 1 for the right-"

 

"Why so cheap on the right leg?"

 

"Because fuck lefties, that's why."

 

"Oh...kay?"

 

"Anyway, then 129.99 for both mounting sockets, 25 for shipping, and 1,000 for tax because the government can."

 

"Sounds great, here's my credit card #.."

 

I couldn't resist

[Jito463]

4 hours ago, mr moose said:

This has been attributed as much to intel's inability to meet demand as it is about end users actively seeking out AMD hardware.

The timing for Ryzen really was a perfect storm for AMD.  Between Intel dragging their feet, the manufacturing stalling out on the 10nm and Ryzen being competitive, it was a perfect time to launch.  Time will tell if AMD takes full advantage of this opportunity, or if they rest on their laurels and allow Intel to dust them again.  Somehow I suspect it'll be more the former than the latter, but we'll have to wait and see.

4 hours ago, minibois said:

I often have people say they want Intel because they are 'used to it', but there is not really something to get used to..

What I find funny are those (who work in the tech field, no less) which say "Intel just works", as if there's something magical about Intel processors that makes them more compatible than AMD.

3 hours ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

For you, me, and all gamers, yes, but for a business that maybe needs CPU power but not any GPU power, it would just be a waste

I work for a small SI (we used to just call ourselves an OEM, but whatever), and recently built a new system with an i3.  It ended up being cheaper to build with the i3-9100f and install a video card than to build with the i3-9100 and use the iGPU.

 

Not terribly relevant to your comment, just an ironic, slightly related situation it made me think of.

[williamcll]

Hopefully the switch will improve internet performance for EU servers.

[vanished]

9 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

I work for a small SI (we used to just call ourselves an OEM, but whatever), and recently built a new system with an i3.  It ended up being cheaper to build with the i3-9100f and install a video card than to build with the i3-9100 and use the iGPU.

 

Not terribly relevant to your comment, just an ironic, slightly related situation it made me think of.

Actually that seems very relevant and quite surprising.  I suppose that's a potential point for AMD though, especially since they're charging considerably less than the equivalent Intel chip across the board, meaning that example is more likely to apply, and with an even greater difference in price.

[Deli]

31 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

The timing for Ryzen really was a perfect storm for AMD.  Between Intel dragging their feet, the manufacturing stalling out on the 10nm and Ryzen being competitive, it was a perfect time to launch.  Time will tell if AMD takes full advantage of this opportunity, or if they rest on their laurels and allow Intel to dust them again. 

AMD has competitive products for the desktop and server markets. But for mobile and laptop is really weak. AMD has to be more aggressive on that front. Next year 7nm Ryzen mobile should start with 6 core for mid range, like Ryzen 5. And go to 10 or even 12 cores for the top end Ryzen 7 and 9. Imagine a laptop with 12 cores! Will be interesting next year.

[porina]

9 hours ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Do business systems really make up that large of a portion of the total market?

It's hard to say. In my day job everyone is given their own laptop to use. As I'm in engineering, we also get a load of other desktops and laptops to test with, run test systems. If I visit customer sites, they're often one system per user also. Large shift working sites might have some sharing, but it's still a lot of systems for a lot of people.

 

9 hours ago, mr moose said:

Except in the corporate world where there is a lot you get used to, like longevity and support expectations and compatibility issues.

 

Have to think more in terms of IT admin/management who have to answer to someone when a new systems doesn't work the way the old one does.

Where I work they only buy Dells. IMO they really suck, and when I see the pricing my manager has to approve, that number is a LOT bigger than you think. In unofficial discussions with the more friendly IT guy, the answer was simple. Apparently Dell has the best business support. CPU performance is nowhere near the top of the decision making list.

 

9 hours ago, yian88 said:

Yep, people are sick of garbage celeron, pentium, atom dual core laptops with 1999 GPU integrated for the price of a ryzen 5 3500U+Vega8 laptop which mops the floor with i7 quad laptops.

Atom CPUs haven't stood still. The Atom you get today is very different from the Atom 10 years ago. They're not the same thing even if they're using the same marketing names like Celeron, Pentium, etc.

 

9 hours ago, yian88 said:

Fuck intel their overcharge premium for their mediocre iGPU chips, even in face of competition they refuse to abide to market competition, intel believes is some sort of apple and competition dont matter, well sales say a different story.

Intel do play by market conditions. Look at the recently talk of their HEDT pricing for example. The thing is, the market isn't simply best = more expensive. If an AMD CPU does what you want for less than the equivalent Intel CPU, buy the AMD CPU. If Intel had the same price/perf (which isn't the only thing people look at), would you then buy Intel?

 

4 hours ago, Jito463 said:

What I find funny are those (who work in the tech field, no less) which say "Intel just works", as if there's something magical about Intel processors that makes them more compatible than AMD.

There could be a small argument for that. Some software is just optimised over the years for Intel. This is more a software problem than an AMD CPU problem, but it still happens.

[mr moose]

7 minutes ago, porina said:

 

Where I work they only buy Dells. IMO they really suck, and when I see the pricing my manager has to approve, that number is a LOT bigger than you think. In unofficial discussions with the more friendly IT guy, the answer was simple. Apparently Dell has the best business support. CPU performance is nowhere near the top of the decision making list.

 

 

that really doesn't surprise me at all.

 

7 minutes ago, porina said:

There could be a small argument for that. Some software is just optimised over the years for Intel. This is more a software problem than an AMD CPU problem, but it still happens.

 

I would say in most corporate scenario's (particularly servers, etc) when someone says "it just works" they are basically only saying "it works the way we are accustomed to and understand all the little peculiarities with drivers and support etc.  Changing up the hardware introduces unknowns that could be very costly and frankly aren't worth the risk unless we are starting from scratch".

 

I have never really heard anyone refer to Intel products as being better, only that it's better the devil you know which seems to ring very true in many businesses.

 

 

[leadeater]

11 hours ago, minibois said:

Intel vs. AMD on the other hand has little to nothing to get 'used to' though. One might argue installing the CPU is different.. But that is not something to 'get used to'. In daily use the experience will be all but the same between the two as well.

That is kind of what makes this meme funny, but also way too relocatable to me. I often have people say they want Intel because they are 'used to it', but there is not really something to get used to..

For the corporate clients there is more to it. You have OS deployment workflows and driver packaging, all of which is done already and the drivers are generally common across multiple models and even generations. Switching to AMD requires a whole lot of deployment testing of systems to make sure the new set of drivers install completely successfully and correctly.

 

It's definitely a lot easier to not switch hardware platforms as doing so is not a zero effort endeavor. This can even be true just for switching hardware supply vendors using the same underlying hardware platform e.g. HP to Dell.

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, porina said:

In unofficial discussions with the more friendly IT guy, the answer was simple. Apparently Dell has the best business support. CPU performance is nowhere near the top of the decision making list.

1. Support

2. Reliability

3. Ordering process and delivery time

4. Pricing

.

.

.

100. Performance