"AMD needs to stop launching their products on weekends" - LS

[Lathlaer]

Now imagine you are Kyle or Jay or Austin. You did your video on time and it's Friday, you went away for the weekend with that one other person working for you responsible for just posting the video when the NDA lifts. And you are not even in the city when you learn that new drivers came out.

 

Wasn't there a problem before with some kind of launch where other techtubers were angry about some last minute changes that made them look unreliable in the eyes of their audience?

[TetraSky]

The 7/7 release date was a cool marketing idea... But it fucks with the schedule of people who work monday to friday. Resulting in unnecessary overtime from the tech news folks who have to re-run benchmarks and re-shoot videos when they release last minute drivers.

Tech news is a hardcore business, if you're not the first ones posting the benchmarks, you're not getting views/clicks which will hurt your bottom line. (same thing with "games journalists" who post early reviews of games)

[LinusTech]

There's a lot of "suck it up" here, but I think the thing people are missing is that we ARE doing exactly that. 

 

But when people are rude for no reason, I'm going to complain about it. 

 

We happen to be running into exactly the sort of "something is wrong and it's a Saturday" issue someone thought might happen right now. 

 

Again, the problem isn't that the launch is messy (it almost always is) but rather that instead of KNOWING the launch will be messy and planning for it (because it almost always is) AMD assumed that this would somehow go off without a hitch and set their release day for Sunday. 

 

I get that criticizing AMD isn't popular or whatever, but when they're boneheads I'm still going to do it. 

[Bitter]

6 minutes ago, LinusTech said:

There's a lot of "suck it up" here, but I think the thing people are missing is that we ARE doing exactly that. 

 

But when people are rude for no reason, I'm going to complain about it. 

 

We happen to be running into exactly the sort of "something is wrong and it's a Saturday" issue someone thought might happen right now. 

 

Again, the problem isn't that the launch is messy (it almost always is) but rather than instead of KNOWING the launch will be messy (because it almost always is) AMD assumed that this would somehow go off without a hitch and set their release day for Sunday. 

 

I get that criticizing AMD isn't popular or whatever, but when they're boneheads I'm still going to do it. 

Compatibility issues? Any of the issues planned to make it into the product reviews?

[aisle9]

12 hours ago, MattMatt said:

https://youtu.be/vf7vT389vVA?t=2099

34:59

 

Quote from Linus on the WAN show. I'm interested to hear what other think of this.

 

".... multiple people on staff here, that are being forced to come in on the weekend, in order to get our videos done on time, it's not right, it's not fair, and it's completely unnecessary"

Without having seen the video, my guess would be that there was lots of sarcasm involved there. All the same:

 

 

[TetraSky]

Just looked at Amazon, the new Ryzen CPUs are out.... aaaaand it's laughable.

[Quadriplegic]

16 hours ago, caincha said:

I criticise LMG a lot but the one thing LMG have in spades is business acumen and I agree 100% about the Tuesday being a better release day.

Sure they can't expect a huge company to change just for them but that doesn't change the facts…

Tuesday (7/9) is terrible day to launch new AMD cards, as they would get completely overshadowed by RTX refresh

[DezGalbie]

Well who is it that's actually forcing them to come in on the weekend to get it done? Does AMD have authority over LMG when it comes to LMG shift patterns/rotas?

Pretty sure the decision makers at LMG (whoever it would be to make the ultimate call on who has to come in to work and when) can make the call to leave this work until Monday.

The argument against this would presumably be something like - "Oh, but we can't because all the other tech-tubers will have the updated reviews out before us and we'll get less views, exposure etc".

True, if you leave it until Monday then you are giving up that strategic advantage to your fellow tech-tubers. But that's a business call. To be made by LMG. Nobody is forcing them, they can decide whether to give staff the weekend off or to stay on the cutting edge of tech news and product launches. Make the call however you see fit for your business in terms of balancing business need and staff morale, but, for the love of God, take some responsibility for the decision. Nobody is forcing you to do anything. Being convinced of your preference to do a thing by recognising an undesirable consequence of not doing the thing does not necessarily equate to being forced to do the thing.

I'm sure your reasonable members of staff will accept the business need in this situation and man-up and get it done anyway. Working a weekend every now and again isn't the end of the world.

[Lathlaer]

6 hours ago, DezGalbie said:

True, if you leave it until Monday then you are giving up that strategic advantage to your fellow tech-tubers. But that's a business call. To be made by LMG. Nobody is forcing them, they can decide whether to give staff the weekend off or to stay on the cutting edge of tech news and product launches. Make the call however you see fit for your business in terms of balancing business need and staff morale, but, for the love of God, take some responsibility for the decision. Nobody is forcing you to do anything. Being convinced of your preference to do a thing by recognising an undesirable consequence of not doing the thing does not necessarily equate to being forced to do the thing.

I'm sure your reasonable members of staff will accept the business need in this situation and man-up and get it done anyway. Working a weekend every now and again isn't the end of the world.

You still seem not to get the main point Linus made. 

 

The main problem was that they replaced one set of broken drivers with another set of broken drivers. So basically it didn't change a thing and yet people had to redo the videos.

 

Watch Gamers Nexus video for a change, he is saying basically the same thing. 1st broken set of drivers, 2nd broken set of drivers given just before weekend and nothing to show for it.

 

Look at his face of pure happines when he mentions that he used the new set of drivers.

 

 

I am sure AMD is stoked with the review they got from Steve - he couldn't overclock at all and had some weird artifacts every now and then. And what is AMD statement? "We are aware of it and are working on a driver update".

 

To summarize: if I got a video ready with a set of broken drivers and two days before launch AMD had sent me another set of drivers and it turned out that it was unnecessary because the bottom line is "wait for the 3rd update anyway", I would also be annoyed.  

[DezGalbie]

1 minute ago, Lathlaer said:

You still seem not to get the main point Linus made. 

 

The main problem was that they replaced one set of broken drivers with another set of broken drivers. So basically it didn't change a thing and yet people had to redo the videos.

Oh, no. I get that completely. AMD's driver fuck-up has required that videos be redone and it means more work. It's just that that point is entirely irrelevant to the question of who is forcing them to come in and redo their videos over the weekend instead of leaving it to Monday?

Let's grant that AMD have fucked up their drivers. We could even assume that AMD have fucked up another dozen random things with regard to this launch which have made things difficult for tech-tubers and requires videos to be remade. But how does that mean they are forcing the staff at LMG to come in over the weekend?

AMD do not decide who works when at LMG. The decision makers at LMG decide who at LMG works when in order to run the business to their best of their ability.

If LMG management wanted to, they could have given their staff the weekend off and redone the videos on Monday and/or Tuesday, couldn't they? Now, I understand that they don't want to do that because it will put their content behind dozens of other tech-tubers, but that's not the same as AMD forcing them, is it? That is LMG recognising that it would be of great benefit to the business to bring staff in over the weekend instead of waiting and letting your competitors steal a march on you.

To then paint that decision as "AMD are forcing us" rather than "Sorry, guys, but we need you to work this weekend. It's just too important to wait." is childish at best. It's not a popular decision to have to make on behalf of your staff, but it makes sense, and I'm sure that most of the staff there understand it. Just own it. The professional folk put in that situation will respect that honesty and personal responsibility more anyway.

[Lathlaer]

26 minutes ago, DezGalbie said:

Oh, no. I get that completely. AMD's driver fuck-up has required that videos be redone and it means more work. It's just that that point is entirely irrelevant to the question of who is forcing them to come in and redo their videos over the weekend instead of leaving it to Monday?

Let's grant that AMD have fucked up their drivers. We could even assume that AMD have fucked up another dozen random things with regard to this launch which have made things difficult for tech-tubers and requires videos to be remade. But how does that mean they are forcing the staff at LMG to come in over the weekend?

AMD do not decide who works when at LMG. The decision makers at LMG decide who at LMG works when in order to run the business to their best of their ability.

If LMG management wanted to, they could have given their staff the weekend off and redone the videos on Monday and/or Tuesday, couldn't they? Now, I understand that they don't want to do that because it will put their content behind dozens of other tech-tubers, but that's not the same as AMD forcing them, is it? That is LMG recognising that it would be of great benefit to the business to bring staff in over the weekend instead of waiting and letting your competitors steal a march on you.

To then paint that decision as "AMD are forcing us" rather than "Sorry, guys, but we need you to work this weekend. It's just too important to wait." is childish at best. It's not a popular decision to have to make on behalf of your staff, but it makes sense, and I'm sure that most of the staff there understand it. Just own it. The professional folk put in that situation will respect that honesty and personal responsibility more anyway.

 

 

I don't like the portrayal of the situation as one-sided because AMD isn't holding a gun to Linus' head. It's a partnership. LTT covers tech so obviously they need to be a part of everything AMD does in order to stay relevant. AMD on the other relies on reviewers to introduce their products to tech audience, hence the review samples and communication.

 

To claim that everything in this partnership is the reviewer problem is very simplistic. LTT isn't the only outlet who got treated that way - everyone did. That's not insignificant number of reviewers and outlets. LTT alone may not be an equal partner for AMD but the whole reviewer collective very much is.

 

I also feel that if Intel or NVIDIA were the ones who pulled that sort of thing, people wouldn't be that quick to dismiss Linus' complain (esp. on these forums) but that's neither here nor there.

 

Finally, he complained about it on the WAN show which has a very loose structure and allows for personal opinions, rants etc. This is the thing where Linus can say what's on his mind. It's not like he is making another video addressed to AMD or writing an Open Letter. Notice that he didn't even mention the situation in his Ryzen review so obviously he is aware that there are things he needs to suck up, he just doesn't need to be happy about it (though the Navi review isn't up yet and I would've expected that there).

[DezGalbie]

18 minutes ago, Lathlaer said:

I don't like the portrayal of the situation as one-sided because AMD isn't holding a gun to Linus' head. It's a partnership. LTT covers tech so obviously they need to be a part of everything AMD does in order to stay relevant. AMD on the other relies on reviewers to introduce their products to tech audience, hence the review samples and communication.

 

To claim that everything in this partnership is the reviewer problem is very simplistic. LTT isn't the only outlet who got treated that way - everyone did. That's not insignificant number of reviewers and outlets. LTT may not be an equal partner for AMD but the whole reviewer collective very much is.

 

I also feel that if Intel or NVIDIA were the ones who pulled that sort of thing, people wouldn't be that quick to dismiss Linus' complain (esp. on these forums) but that's neither here nor there.

 

Finally, he complained about it on the WAN show which has a very loose structure and allows for personal opinions, rants etc. This is the thing where Linus can say what's on his mind. It's not like he is making another video addressed to AMD or writing an Open Letter. Notice that he didn't even mention the situation in his Ryzen review so obviously he is aware that there are things he needs to suck up, he just doesn't need to be happy about it.

There's a lot of things being said about points which I am not making in the slightest.

I'm not saying that this driver issue is only LMG's problem. I'm not saying that AMD and LMG do not have some kind of partnership (although if I was to describe it I probably wouldn't do it that way). I'm also not dismissing Linus's complaint. He's right to complain. I would too.

I am only disagreeing with one very specific point. The point where it was said that AMD are forcing LMG staff to work this weekend. That is clearly untrue. That's a decision for LMG management to make. They were put in a tough spot where they had to decide between coming in over the weekend to redo videos and gaining the income/exposure/all the other stuff that comes with being at the forefront of a big tech launch and giving the staff the weekend off, waiting until Monday to redo their videos, and a gaining a little bump in staff morale. That's a choice. It's a choice made by LMG, not AMD.

[LinusTech]

6 hours ago, DezGalbie said:

There's a lot of things being said about points which I am not making in the slightest.

I'm not saying that this driver issue is only LMG's problem. I'm not saying that AMD and LMG do not have some kind of partnership (although if I was to describe it I probably wouldn't do it that way). I'm also not dismissing Linus's complaint. He's right to complain. I would too.

I am only disagreeing with one very specific point. The point where it was said that AMD are forcing LMG staff to work this weekend. That is clearly untrue. That's a decision for LMG management to make. They were put in a tough spot where they had to decide between coming in over the weekend to redo videos and gaining the income/exposure/all the other stuff that comes with being at the forefront of a big tech launch and giving the staff the weekend off, waiting until Monday to redo their videos, and a gaining a little bump in staff morale. That's a choice. It's a choice made by LMG, not AMD.

That's like saying "it's your choice what to eat for dinner, but this is all I'm giving you, so it's this or starve. 

 

Remember that timely coverage of technology products is literally the livelihoods of the people here. 

 

To be clear, we did it. We got the work done. 

 

It's just really rude to everyone and entirely preventable. 

[Drak3]

8 minutes ago, LinusTech said:

 

Remember that timely coverage of technology products is literally the livelihoods of the people here

Timely doesn't equate to as soon as the product drops or information comes out.

 

You and your staff willingly and voluntarily signed up for this. None of you were forced to do the work when you did it.

[Bitter]

19 minutes ago, LinusTech said:

That's like saying "it's your choice what to eat for dinner, but this is all I'm giving you, so it's this or starve. 

 

Remember that timely coverage of technology products is literally the livelihoods of the people here. 

 

To be clear, we did it. We got the work done. 

 

It's just really rude to everyone and entirely preventable. 

Saw GN's video about the 5700, I thought his eyes were going to roll out of his head talking about the drivers and having to basically re-do all the work at the last minute because of that.

 

All in all you guys put out a nice fun and informative video on the two review samples you had, thank you. I'd say that hopefully your pace can now slow and you and staff can take a breather but I don't think that'll be the case just yet! Keep up the nice work and thank you to you and all the crew that make it happen.

 

Also great to see Anthony wearing proper eye protection in case you dropped something.

 

8 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Timely doesn't equate to as soon as the product drops or information comes out.

 

You and your staff willingly and voluntarily signed up for this. None of you were forced to do the work when you did it.

How fast the videos come out means how many views they get, in a click per dollar driven environment that could mean getting a lot less revenue and hurt financially. Of course, everyone knows everything is always a choice. No one HAS to do anything EVER. Pretty sure they were just venting a bit of work place frustration, I'm confident everyone does it. Lord knows I do.

[Drak3]

Just now, Bitter said:

How fast the videos come out means how many views they get

It's not nearly as down to the wire as you think.

[Bitter]

1 minute ago, Drak3 said:

It's not nearly as down to the wire as you think.

Please don't take this accusingly but...how do you know this? You run a tech review YT channel?

[Drak3]

Just now, Bitter said:

how do you know this?

Quite a few high profile youtubers, such as Markiplier, have discussed this dozens of times throughout videos.

Being amongst the first few to cover a product, such as processors or games, is good for nothing other than meaningless circlejerks. Public interest in products does not magically drop like a rock if you take a day or two after the product drops. The people wanting these reviews either want as much information as possible and will wait a few days for videos to make an informed purchase, watch one video and call it done, or wait for their preferred reviewer(s) videos.

 

And that's something we see outside of the tech sphere.

[Bitter]

Just now, Drak3 said:

Quite a few high profile youtubers, such as Markiplier, have discussed this dozens of times throughout videos.

Being amongst the first few to cover a product, such as processors or games, is good for nothing other than meaningless circlejerks. Public interest in products does not magically drop like a rock if you take a day or two after the product drops. The people wanting these reviews either want as much information as possible and will wait a few days for videos to make an informed purchase, watch one video and call it done, or wait for their preferred reviewer(s) videos.

 

And that's something we see outside of the tech sphere.

So why does everyone push so hard to have reviews out on launch day? It can't ALL  be just for bragging rights. News channels all want to be the first to break a news story too, there must be some advantage.

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, Bitter said:

So why does everyone push so hard to have reviews out on launch day?

Not everyone does. It's largely something that happens in the tech sphere, but as of right now, JayzTwoCents only pushed his CPU review.

And those that do, it either boils down to bragging rights or stupidity, probably both.

2 minutes ago, Bitter said:

News channels all want to be the first to break a news story too

They do so solely for bragging rights.

[Rune]

15 hours ago, TetraSky said:

Just looked at Amazon, the new Ryzen CPUs are out.... aaaaand it's laughable.

I have easily 200 of them in my building alone. Look in the right places.

Edit: Ah, Canada. Nvm.

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, Rune said:

I have easily 200 of them in my building alone

Man, if only there were a Microcenter in Idaho

[Rune]

11 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Man, if only there were a Microcenter in Idaho

I'll let the suggestions team know  Though I don't have quite the pull of @LinusTech hehe

[Blademaster91]

1 hour ago, Bitter said:

So why does everyone push so hard to have reviews out on launch day? It can't ALL  be just for bragging rights. News channels all want to be the first to break a news story too, there must be some advantage.

Yeah being on time along with every other tech reviewer is critical. If you're not as mentioned you really lose out on views and it would make LTT look bad to publish a review later than everyone else.

1 hour ago, Drak3 said:

Timely doesn't equate to as soon as the product drops or information comes out.

 

You and your staff willingly and voluntarily signed up for this. None of you were forced to do the work when you did it.

Linus or LMG staff didn't have much other choice, either post the review they already spent time and money on which was wrong, or redo all of their testing on a weekend because AMD rushed out a lower price on Navi and a driver update just to keep the 7th PR marketing that doesn't mean much. Interestingly enough, according to GamersNexus the launch drivers were broken yet he still had to redo all of his testing.

[caincha]

16 hours ago, Quadriplegic said:

Tuesday (7/9) is terrible day to launch new AMD cards, as they would get completely overshadowed by RTX refresh

Tuesday as a day of the week not as this Tuesday specifically.