Apple's (TSMC) 7-nanometer reportedly starts production

[lavablade02]

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Apple supplier TSMC has started mass production on the processors for this year's lineup of new iPhones, according to Bloomberg. The chip, which is expected to be called the A12, could be the first to use a 7-nanometer process in a commercial device, something the technology industry has been working toward for years.

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Samsung announced today that it'll be ready to start producing 7nm chips at scale next year. The company has manufactured iPhone chips in the past and shared production with TSMC on the A9 chip in the iPhone 6S, but TSMC has been Apple's exclusive SoC partner ever since.

 

 

 

 

Apple is starting production on 7nm chips, meaning more transistor density, meaning higher performance iPhones incoming. This puts Apple ahead of the curve as Samsung is starting production for 7nm next year.

TL:DR: Apple is starting their 7nm chips.

Also, can someone explain how Apple can get 7nm and Intel can't get 10?

After reading the comments Intel is struggling for 10 because of the quality of their chips. Their 14nm is still better than 10nm from someone like Apple.

[AnonymousGuy]

Basically other fabs make up their Xnm numbers.  Particularly whenever Intel announces anything you'll see TSMC do a press release saying some impossibly low number is sampling in [now + 1 quarter].  

 

So don't be surprised when "7nm" is worse than Intel's 14nm still for density.

[The Benjamins]

8 minutes ago, gabrielcarvfer said:

Not all Xnm manufacturing processes are made equal.

 

 

4 minutes ago, AnonymousGuy said:

Basically other fabs make up their Xnm numbers.  Particularly whenever Intel announces anything you'll see TSMC do a press release saying some impossibly low number is sampling in [now + 1 quarter].  

 

So don't be surprised when "7nm" is worse than Intel's 14nm still for density.

according to what I found, Intel 10nm is about the same as TSMC 7nm, so wouldn't TSMC 7nm be better then Intels 14nm?

 

Intel, TSMC, GF

"10nm", "7nm", "7nm"

54nm, 54nm, 56nm

36nm, 40nm, 40nm

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_nanometer#7_nm_process_nodes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10_nanometer#10_nm_process_nodes

 

[AbhiP]

11 minutes ago, gabrielcarvfer said:

Not all Xnm manufacturing processes are made equal.

 

It needs to be explained much better than just an 'x' nm value.

[DocSwag]

9 minutes ago, AnonymousGuy said:

Basically other fabs make up their Xnm numbers.  Particularly whenever Intel announces anything you'll see TSMC do a press release saying some impossibly low number is sampling in [now + 1 quarter].  

 

So don't be surprised when "7nm" is worse than Intel's 14nm still for density.

From what I've seen TSMC and GloFo 7nm will be roughly equal, maybe a little worse than Intel 10nm density wise. Keep in mind though that 10nm is supposed to be like 2.7x more dense than 14nm...

 

It sounds to me though like GloFo and TSMC's 7nm transistors will be smaller than Intel 10nm's transistors, it's just they won't be packed as tightly.

[Tech Enthusiast]

Basically Apple does, what they always do.

 

They use fancy buzz words and numbers to attract the crowd.

Behind the curtain they offer less for more, but the crowd does not care, because BUZZ WORDS! (That and John Ivys voice, explaining how they reinvented the wheel yet again, just for your personal gain)

[AlTech]

Title is clickbait. Apple isn't a Fab. TSMC is and they are starting 7nm from what your article says.

[DrMacintosh]

3 hours ago, lavablade02 said:

Also, can someone explain how Apple can get 7nm and Intel can't get 10?

Apple has essentially infinitely more cash than Intel does

 

2 hours ago, Rattenmann said:

Basically Apple does, what they always do.

 

They use fancy buzz words and numbers to attract the crowd.

Behind the curtain they offer less for more, but the crowd does not care, because BUZZ WORDS! (That and John Ivys voice, explaining how they reinvented the wheel yet again, just for your personal gain)

So you are telling me that the A11 Bionic is “less for more”?

 

I would direct you to compare the best SoC Qualcomm has to offer, and compare it to the A11 Bionic. 

 

Apple is the industry leader of ARM SoCs

 

 

 

Bruh can we give Qualcomm a break? ?

[Cheezdoodlez]

1 hour ago, Rattenmann said:

Basically Apple does, what they always do.

 

They use fancy buzz words and numbers to attract the crowd.

Behind the curtain they offer less for more, but the crowd does not care, because BUZZ WORDS! (That and John Ivys voice, explaining how they reinvented the wheel yet again, just for your personal gain)

I don't think they will talk about their new phones packing a cpu with 7nm on the release events.. They will use A12 something and say stuff like it's {x}% faster than the older generation. And other stuff thats not telling a whole lot. Etc. 

[SansVarnic]

@lavablade02 Please update your topic to meet the TN&R Guidelines.

I have adjusted your title for you to reflect more accurate the information discussed.

 

Missing;

• Your thread must include some original input to tell the reader why it is relevant to them, and what your personal opinion on the topic is. This needs to be MORE than just a quick, single comment to meet the posting guidelines.

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[Cheezdoodlez]

This could indicate that the new iPhone will be iPhone 9 and not 8s if you think about it. 

 

If the phone released in September actually uses a A12 chip instead of a A11X chip.

 

Apple usually throw a A**X chip in the s models and keep the A** chip for new model numbers. And since they skipped a phone with A10X and went straight to A11 for the iPhone 8 my theory seems likely. 

 

Hopefully they will finally redesign the whole phone and not release yet another 6 lookalike. 

[bcredeur97]

Intel generally has a very high standard for their processes. hence their 10nm struggle.

[DrMacintosh]

5 minutes ago, Cheezdoodlez said:

If the phone released in September actually uses a A12 chip instead of a A11X chip.

 

Apple usually throw a A**X chip in the s models and keep the A** chip for new model numbers. And since they skipped a phone with A10X and went straight to A11 for the iPhone 8 my theory seems likely. 

The X slew of A processors are reserved for the iPad. The X refers to the same architecture but more clock speed and maybe a more powerful GPU. 

 

The iPhone always gets a whole number numb in the SoC naming scheme. 

[Commodus]

7 minutes ago, Cheezdoodlez said:

This could indicate that the new iPhone will be iPhone 9 and not 8s if you think about it. 

 

If the phone released in September actually uses a A12 chip instead of a A11X chip.

 

Apple usually throw a A**X chip in the s models and keep the A** chip for new model numbers. And since they skipped a phone with A10X and went straight to A11 for the iPhone 8 my theory seems likely. 

 

Hopefully they will finally redesign the whole phone and not release yet another 6 lookalike. 

 

You mean like the iPhone X?  It's odd, you wrote as if the X didn't exist.

 

The current leaks (from multiple credible sources) have Apple releasing both a direct iPhone X sequel and a Plus model, as well as a direct replacement for the iPhone 8 that would use an X-style screen, just with an LCD instead of OLED and a single rear camera.

 

Also, Apple has never used an A-X processor in an iPhone; they're solely for iPads.

[Curufinwe_wins]

The bigger reason Intel hasn't gotten 10nm up to what they want is power. Intel (and AMD for that matter) is running their chips at something like 10-50x the power levels that mobile SoCs are allowed. Electron leakage is the biggest issue holding back efficiency as transistors get smaller and higher power dramatically increases leakage (at the same temperature).

 

Well really the metric of interest is power density, but still.

[Misanthrope]

Since Apple is probably getting first dibs on 7nm here this probably means AMD and Nvidia will have to wait most likely right?

 

I mean I know it depends on Apple's volume but it's a new node and they have enough demand to put everybody else on wait.

[lavablade02]

8 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

Since Apple is probably getting first dibs on 7nm here this probably means AMD and Nvidia will have to wait most likely right?

 

I mean I know it depends on Apple's volume but it's a new node and they have enough demand to put everybody else on wait.

I don't think that is how that works, but I might be wrong. If it is how that works Samsung wouldn't be making theirs next year.

[lavablade02]

57 minutes ago, SansVarnic said:

@lavablade02 Please update your topic to meet the TN&R Guidelines.

I have adjusted your title for you to reflect more accurate the information discussed.

 

Missing;

• Your thread must include some original input to tell the reader why it is relevant to them, and what your personal opinion on the topic is. This needs to be MORE than just a quick, single comment to meet the posting guidelines.

Source;

Fixed it.

[79wjd]

28 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

Since Apple is probably getting first dibs on 7nm here this probably means AMD and Nvidia will have to wait most likely right?

 

I mean I know it depends on Apple's volume but it's a new node and they have enough demand to put everybody else on wait.

Apple's SoC is still quite small compared to the size of a GPU. So I would assume Apple wouldn't monopolize all 7nm production even given the large volumes that Apple needs (guess).

[Cheezdoodlez]

51 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

The X slew of A processors are reserved for the iPad. The X refers to the same architecture but more clock speed and maybe a more powerful GPU. 

 

The iPhone always gets a whole number numb in the SoC naming scheme. 

 

45 minutes ago, Commodus said:

 

You mean like the iPhone X?  It's odd, you wrote as if the X didn't exist.

 

The current leaks (from multiple credible sources) have Apple releasing both a direct iPhone X sequel and a Plus model, as well as a direct replacement for the iPhone 8 that would use an X-style screen, just with an LCD instead of OLED and a single rear camera.

 

Also, Apple has never used an A-X processor in an iPhone; they're solely for iPads.

Dammit. You are correct and I'm stupid. I blame allergies combined with a man cold from hell. Sorry about that. 

 

 

I left out the iPhone X because the X uses the same chip as the 8. My theory (which happened to be bs and should be purged with fire.) was simply going by chip numbers and the more traditional iPhone numbers. If they refresh the X it will most likely have the A12 chip just like the iPhone 9/ 8s or whatever they wanna call it. 

[AlTech]

1 hour ago, Cheezdoodlez said:

This could indicate that the new iPhone will be iPhone 9 and not 8s if you think about it. 

 

If the phone released in September actually uses a A12 chip instead of a A11X chip.

 

Apple usually throw a A**X chip in the s models and keep the A** chip for new model numbers. And since they skipped a phone with A10X and went straight to A11 for the iPhone 8 my theory seems likely. 

 

Hopefully they will finally redesign the whole phone and not release yet another 6 lookalike. 

A__X chips are used exclusively in full sized (9.7" or larger) iPads and in iMac Pro (as a security co-processor)

[cj09beira]

4 hours ago, lavablade02 said:

Also, can someone explain how Apple can get 7nm and Intel can't get 10?

After reading the comments Intel is struggling for 10 because of the quality of their chips. Their 14nm is still better than 10nm from someone like Apple.

its because intel needs to produce much bigger chips on their node so yields need to be better for it to be profitable, which means that even if tsmc's yields were as bad as intels they might still be able to produce chips (probably are beter)

[Doobeedoo]

This will be great to see how much improvement is on this node. Also give time until yields mature for desktop chips.

[GOTSpectrum]

3 hours ago, Misanthrope said:

Since Apple is probably getting first dibs on 7nm here this probably means AMD and Nvidia will have to wait most likely right?

 

I mean I know it depends on Apple's volume but it's a new node and they have enough demand to put everybody else on wait.

You can probably fit quite a few apple SOCs in the areas around GPUs as they are huge in comparison. I don't know if any fabs do this however. 

[rawrdaysgoby]

5 hours ago, gabrielcarvfer said:

Not all Xnm manufacturing processes are made equal.

 

At the rate they are releasing for 10nm chips everybody would have made 7nm chips already refined twice