Car Enthusiast Club [Now Motorcycle friendly!] - First thread to 150k! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[JoaoPRSousa]

8 hours ago, bcredeur97 said:

RIP Ken Block

 

 

 

[Dillpickle23422]

On 12/28/2022 at 1:08 PM, RevoltTrain said:

Always love some GMT400 goodness

 

Here's our farm truck

Nice!! What year?

[bcredeur97]

18 hours ago, dogwitch said:

yeap read about it. also how to. what a way to do.

Man went end over end in a snowmobile is what I read? 
 

at least he died doing what he loved to do. I hope! If you ask him, he probably hoped he would go some way like that lol 

 

feel bad for his wife/kids though  

[Bianks84]

12 hours ago, JoaoPRSousa said:

 

Just watched Gymkhana 5 again, that was the one that got me into the scene. Bawled my eyes out because it ends with Come Sail away by Styx.

Link:

 

What a start to 2023...

 

Seeing this post from his Instagram yesterday made me cry again

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cm6-yx1vGiF/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet

 

 

[dogwitch]

1 hour ago, Bianks84 said:

Just watched Gymkhana 5 again, that was the one that got me into the scene. Bawled my eyes out because it ends with Come Sail away by Styx.

Link:

 

What a start to 2023...

 

Seeing this post from his Instagram yesterday made me cry again

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cm6-yx1vGiF/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet

 

 

yeah. i learn a few thing with my photography  by watch those videos.

tons of new way to context something.

[bcredeur97]

@vetali @Bitter So remember that radiator fan problem I had? It had actually more or less went away on it's own. I had bought that fan and I kept it. Ended up swapping it out tonight.

And.... I'm still having the same problem! I did some more things tonight and my current theory is the ECM can't communicate to the fan controller... so fan controller is just running at max speed because that's the "safe" thing to do. 

You would think it would throw a code for this scenario but I'm starting to think that it doesn't after my testing tonight. I only get that "fan control circuit -- electrical malfunction" error when I unplug the fan. If I clear everything out, plug the fan in, and go for a drive to give it time to maybe throw something, I get nothing.

Where would you guys go from here?

I posted to the touareg forum with detail, but not sure how much help I'll get there:

https://www.clubtouareg.com/threads/2012-tdi-radiator-fan-runs-at-max-speed-100-of-the-time-no-fault-codes.300182/ 

I would 100% leave this issue if it:

A. didn't carry risk of burning something up

B. make my car idle a little rough because it's pulling so much power (I did confirm -- 850 watts on the sticker! That fan is nuts lol)

C. Drain my battery because this car leaves the fan on for a couple mins after turning it off.. normally it runs at a low speed though... which mine doesn't, so yeah... problem. (and unplugging the fan every time I park the car.. is well, annoying)

[vetali]

Does your AC work normally?

[Bitter]

I used to see dead fan modules and dead fans on the first gen New Beetle pretty often when I saw them in the shop more often. Often it would be burnt terminals on the module out to the fan along with a dead fan motor and dead fan module. Seemed to be that the module would fail in an always on situation then the motor would pull a bunch of power and burn up the connector to the motor and/or the motor itself. We'd just replace the fan and module together since the connector was usually burnt.

The other thing I'd see on a terribly regular basis was the fuse block on top of the battery melting and dropping contact with the fuse powering the fan module, but again root cause was often a bad module/fan motor. VW's in the 00's were kind of an electrical dumpster fire sometimes literally.

[bcredeur97]

20 minutes ago, vetali said:

Does your AC work normally?

Yes! Just fine.

9 minutes ago, Bitter said:

I used to see dead fan modules and dead fans on the first gen New Beetle pretty often when I saw them in the shop more often. Often it would be burnt terminals on the module out to the fan along with a dead fan motor and dead fan module. Seemed to be that the module would fail in an always on situation then the motor would pull a bunch of power and burn up the connector to the motor and/or the motor itself. We'd just replace the fan and module together since the connector was usually burnt.

The other thing I'd see on a terribly regular basis was the fuse block on top of the battery melting and dropping contact with the fuse powering the fan module, but again root cause was often a bad module/fan motor. VW's in the 00's were kind of an electrical dumpster fire sometimes literally.

It’s definetly a little different on the 2011+ Touareg’s they really redid a lot of things in the 2010’s.. I’m actually not convinced the fan is a module… it may even be just a smart motor like PWM. 

 

theres 4 wires going to it. The two big bois for the power and the two tiny ones that are some sort of signaling that based on the wiring diagram, seem to actually go straight to the ECM.

the two wires might not even be CAN bus it may just be a signal from the ECM itself? 

 

power delivery is obviously fine it just can’t control its speed.

 

even if I do the fan test in VCDS and tell the fan to turn off for 30 seconds nothing happens. Now does this fan test function even work? No idea I’ve never tested it with the car working normally. But it’s there! 

[vetali]

I would check everything AC related to make sure there isn't an outlier. Fords like to have AC pressure sensors that fail and read absurdly high. That will command the fan max.

 

If thats okay, I legit have no idea... Don't work on VW electrical issues at all

[bcredeur97]

18 minutes ago, vetali said:

I would check everything AC related to make sure there isn't an outlier. Fords like to have AC pressure sensors that fail and read absurdly high. That will command the fan max.

 

If thats okay, I legit have no idea... Don't work on VW electrical issues at all

My dad had a pressure sensor fail on his 2014 A6. Yes it’s an Audi, but it’s the same era and roughly same electrical design. Mine just has less stuff 

 

it generated a code for one. I have no codes

 

and also it caused the ac to completely stop working. It wouldn’t let the compressor engage. My air con works great.

 

I’ll check the measuring blocks on all the ac stuff tomorrow, but I’m doubtful  

 

I need to find an independent mechanic around here who knows more than me. It’s scary that I don’t know anyone, lol. 

[Bitter]

Send me a vin, I'll check out some wiring diagrams and spitball some ideas when I have time.

[PC Master Blaster]

Wanted to see what you guys think of it..?   467 Big Block making 575hp built on a all original 72 El Camino with 12,000 actual documented miles. Bought it from the original owner who kept it in a garage from the day he bought it. Every panel is factory original with no repair work. Paint isn't perfect but its pretty close to it.

[AlwaysFSX]

4 hours ago, PC Master Blaster said:

Wanted to see what you guys think of it..?   467 Big Block making 575hp built on a all original 72 El Camino with 12,000 actual documented miles. Bought it from the original owner who kept it in a garage from the day he bought it. Every panel is factory original with no repair work. Paint isn't perfect but its pretty close to it.

Nut

[bcredeur97]

11 hours ago, Bitter said:

Send me a vin, I'll check out some wiring diagrams and spitball some ideas when I have time.

Here’s a full auto scan; it’s in here.

 

I think i said this but note that the fan electrical malfunction error is actually from me unplugging the fan.
 

Also I had cleared codes (only in the engine module) yesterday afternoon when I was trying to see if it would generate something new

 

thats actually how I figured out that the malfunction error was from me unplugging the fan, lol. 

FullAutoScanLog-WVGEK9BP7CD008300-216485km-134517mi.txt

[Bitter]

2 minutes ago, bcredeur97 said:

Here’s a full auto scan; it’s in here.

 

I think i said this but note that the fan electrical malfunction error is actually from me unplugging the fan.
 

Also I had cleared codes (only in the engine module) yesterday afternoon when I was trying to see if it would generate something new

 

thats actually how I figured out that the malfunction error was from me unplugging the fan, lol. 

FullAutoScanLog-WVGEK9BP7CD008300-216485km-134517mi.txt 16.73 kB · 4 downloads

That's not opening for me? It downloads as an XML file??

[bcredeur97]

2 minutes ago, Bitter said:

That's not opening for me? It downloads as an XML file??

yeah I noticed that too. Maybe since i uploaded it from my phone? Here's it again:

Edit: lol so uploading txt files entirely does not work on this site. 

Here's a google drive link:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GfIcMIM-QUjqe58goEdtEA1hBXdQQV0i/view?usp=share_link 

FullAutoScanLog-WVGEK9BP7CD008300-216485km-134517mi.txt

[bcredeur97]

@Bitter I will say; this is bothering me; not really sure which sensor would report this though  All the readouts in the measuring blocks do not show this value; just the engine outlet temp and rad outlet temp.
 

Heat delivery temperature in cooling system: -273.1 °C

[Bitter]

The fan has a module on the motor according to the diagram, did you carry over parts from the old fan to the new one?

my.alldata.svg

 

My best guess is the PCM is sending a pulse width or voltage signal to the fan module and then there's probably a big power transistor in there that runs the fan at the requested speed likely via PWM.

If that signal were pulled down to ground or held up at +12 or +5 due to a short it could keep the fan on 100% or if the signal is missing entirely it could default to full on fan speed.

[bcredeur97]

11 minutes ago, Bitter said:

The fan has a module on the motor according to the diagram, did you carry over parts from the old fan to the new one?

my.alldata.svg 98.46 kB · 0 downloads

 

My best guess is the PCM is sending a pulse width or voltage signal to the fan module and then there's probably a big power transistor in there that runs the fan at the requested speed likely via PWM.

If that signal were pulled down to ground or held up at +12 or +5 due to a short it could keep the fan on 100% or if the signal is missing entirely it could default to full on fan speed.

I had actually bought an entire fan assembly. It’s all one unit other than the shroud (which is detachable). I didn’t even have to do that though with how I bought it. 
 

Not the best picture, but here it is:

 

i also have this snapshot of when I got home today (again fan running 100% the entire time):

 

and here’s one I took a few mins later; with the car on but the fan unplugged, just for lol’s to see what it would read then:

 

only thing I noticed in the latter is it does show one of the coolant fan 1 activation’s at 0% instead of both the same value. So guessing one is “what the ECM is requesting” and the other is “what the fan is actually doing” 

 

seems to indicate that it knows or at least thinks it knows /something/ about the fan. But said fan is very obviously running at 100% when it’s plugged in, so the values are totally wrong 

[Bitter]

I don't think the fan has any speed feedback to the PCM. There's only one wire from the PCM to the fan, the others are power for the motor, fused power for the module, and ground for the module and motor. You'll need to see what the PCM is outputting to the fan module, likely with a scope but you'd need to know what the PCM should be outputting. You'll probably need a VW forum or a VW specialist at this point, I don't have enough available information about how the system works to really make a more educated guess than bad new part or vague wiring/PCM problem.

 

There is a TSB....

VW's suuuuuuuuck deez nuts.pdf

 

I guess I can't attach PDF's either. Oh well. Says upto 15 minutes fan run time after vehicle is off can be considered normal.

[vetali]

Did you code it? Could be uncoded so its running in a failsafe mode

[bcredeur97]

26 minutes ago, vetali said:

Did you code it? Could be uncoded so its running in a failsafe mode

Unless I'm missing something, the only coding there is, is for the parent Engine module. Where you just specify what type of fan is attached to the car. Example: Q7's have a dual fan unit, as do Cayenne's (but a different one), so there's a bit that changes for each. 

The Fan Module itself isn't addressable as an entire control unit. Hence why it doesn't appear in a scan.

[bcredeur97]

Getting more help than I thought and actually making a bit of progress on the touareg forum. One guy sending me logs from his 2014 to compare. Another guy had a Q7 with the same issue that he troubleshooted his way to the PCM. Told me to get to mine and make sure connections are clean and that it's dry. Which I'll have to do. It's under the cowl and I need to get in there anyway to clean out the leaves/check the drains.

I'm about done thinking about this tonight though. Certainly getting into the "it could be the PCM/ECU/ECM and lol what are you gonna do about it" territory  

 

[vetali]

1 hour ago, bcredeur97 said:

@Bitter I will say; this is bothering me; not really sure which sensor would report this though  All the readouts in the measuring blocks do not show this value; just the engine outlet temp and rad outlet temp.
 

Heat delivery temperature in cooling system: -273.1 °C

Missed this, quick googling shows a cylinder head temperature sensor on other VWs,