More Intel leaks.. this one is not good though

[Cheesytaco]

Is everyone affected that have a intel cpu or no because i have a i5 3450 and im a bit confused

[Arika]

12 minutes ago, Cheesytaco said:

Is everyone affected that have a intel cpu or no because i have a i5 3450 and im a bit confused

You're not going to feel the effects of this if you're a regular consumer person. So everyone has been affected, including you, but the performance loss is going to relate to anything you're doing

[Hellion]

4 hours ago, mr moose said:

It makes a huge difference, if you are going to accuse someone (or a whole R+D division) of incompetence or intentional neglect) then you should have the product knowledge and industry knowledge to support such claims. 

 

It's got nothing to do with consumer expectations and everything to do with leveling accusations that insinuate the accuser knows what went wrong (pro tip, no one on this forum knows why this eventuated). 

 

As far as the CEO dumping stock, you'd better learn how that all works before jumping on the "insider trading" bandwagon.  It's like accusing some of breaking the speed limit when all you know is they drove fast (not what road they were on or if the road is even governed by a limit),  everything he did was properly disclosed and (this is the fourth time I am saying this) he hasn't brought or made money out of any stock surrounding this, he has only lost value.

 

I don't even know why you would bring brand or loyalty into it,  that doesn't change the facts. 

 

 

It's not relevant at all and quite frankly a half brained conclusion. As a consumer that's purchased intel products I have every right to criticize the company. Having the technical background makes no difference. This is a matter of ethics, not kids at a playground yelling "well, you can't do any better"... Is that honestly your mentality here? That of a child?

 

Regarding the "insider trading" accusations, please quote me on where I mentioned that. You can't becsuse I never did. I indicated that the CEO under these circumstances looks terrible. You can argue coincidence all day long, some of us can piece together clues rather then ignorantly assuming the position of blind faith (brand loyalty) in both a corporation that exists for the sole purpose to increase profits year over year and a justice system that's proven to be corrupt.

 

Are you really that naive?

[Jito463]

5 hours ago, mynameisjuan said:

Nice pulling out specific quotes to just bash intel. Looks like others are fixing this issue as well. If AMD and ARM do release a statement about this issue then its clearly not just an intel issue. 

Except it really is.  The Spectre issue does affect AMD, but is difficult (though admittedly not impossible) to exploit.  The real threat is from Meltdown, which only affects Intel (and, I've heard, a single ARM chip?).  The greatest security risk of the three is strictly an Intel issue.

5 hours ago, mynameisjuan said:

Ok then what the **** do you want them to do? They already are releasing a patch ***.

Perhaps to own up and say, 'A mistake was made, and we are working hard with all appropriate companies to remedy this situation as quickly as possible'.  Instead, they childishly try to shift the blame away from them.

 

I mean, I get why they did it.  They have shareholders to consider, and want to minimize the impact as much as possible.  Just because I understand their reasons, doesn't meant I have to accept them.

[Jenjar]

One odd thing, I updated to the windows patch that they issued today and took benchmarks with Geekbench before and after, my I7-7700 score went up over 400 Points on the Single-Core side of things, and meanwhile it went up over 800 in the Multi-Core section, and I had pretty much the exact same testing conditions, restarted my PC before I took both of the sets of benchmarks, and I let the system sit for a couple of minutes to make sure anything that would start up when the machine started up was already going, Not that I am complaining about those results though :P.

[ItsMitch]

5 hours ago, mynameisjuan said:

Ok then what the fuck do you want them to do? They already are releasing a patch FFS.

"We're extremely sorry to all of our consumers and partners to announce a critical vulnerability in our CPU's, we've been working together with our counterparts to work on a fix and we'll be updating you soon as possible on the affected products, we apologize again"

That would be kind, not a simple bullshit "isn't us specifically, dunno what you're on about"

[mr moose]

10 minutes ago, Hellion said:

It's not relevant at all and quite frankly a half brained conclusion. As a consumer that's purchased intel products I have every right to criticize the company. Having the technical background makes no difference. This is a matter of ethics, not kids at a playground yelling "well, you can't do any better"... Is that honestly your mentality here? That of a child?

 

WTF are you talking about?  I am not talking about people who are merely upset with Intel over this, I am pointing out the silliness of those making claims about Intel's intentions and ineptitude in the causality of all this.  As I said before, if anyone is going to accuse the engineers of being inept then that insinuates the accuser has some sort of knowledge that the situation could have been avoided if said engineers were not inept.  That can only be observed if said accuser knows how the problem came to be.  They don't though and I dare say no one on these forums knows what the mechanisms were that caused this to eventuate let alone determine it was either intentional or due to some sort of 

 

 

 

10 minutes ago, Hellion said:

 

Regarding the "insider trading" accusations, please quote me on where I mentioned that. You can't becsuse I never did. I indicated that the CEO under these circumstances looks terrible. You can argue coincidence all day long, some of us can piece together clues rather then ignorantly assuming the position of blind faith (brand loyalty) in both a corporation that exists for the sole purpose to increase profits year over year and a justice system that's proven to be corrupt.

 

 

 

 

You raised the CEO dumping his stocks,  what relevance that has to what I said is anyone's guess.  So my best guess is you think it's all part of the problem like all the others on the IT bandwagon.  You even said yourself "some of us can piece together clues rather then ignorantly assuming the position of blind faith (brand loyalty)", but the problem is you don't have all the information, you are trying to complete a problem without all the numbers and you are sure your answer is right.

 

10 minutes ago, Hellion said:

 

Are you really that naive?

 

It probably looks that way,  but only because you are talking about things I haven't mentioned and raising points that are irrelevant.  So consequently when I address them you probably get confused.

 

5 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

 

Perhaps to own up and say, 'A mistake was made, and we are working hard with all appropriate companies to remedy this situation as quickly as possible'.  Instead, they childishly try to shift the blame away from them.

 

 

Well half of that is right, but in order to expect them to own up to a mistake we'd have to assume it was a mistake or something that could have more easily been avoided, rather than an issue hidden in million iterations of design that never presented as a problem before.

[Jito463]

1 minute ago, mr moose said:

in order to expect them to own up to a mistake we'd have to assume it was a mistake

 

If it's not a mistake, then that means it's intentional.  Are you implying Intel did this intentionally?  I'm not really sure what your intention was, with trying to correct me there.

[INTELisINNOCENT]

39 minutes ago, Hellion said:

It's not relevant at all and quite frankly a half brained conclusion. As a consumer that's purchased intel products I have every right to criticize the company. Having the technical background makes no difference. This is a matter of ethics, not kids at a playground yelling "well, you can't do any better"... Is that honestly your mentality here? That of a child?

This is the people on LTT and they're aggro about it.

 

Wait until the guy that makes toys shows up and demands you put a price on them, ew.

[mr moose]

6 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

 

If it's not a mistake, then that means it's intentional.  Are you implying Intel did this intentionally?  I'm not really sure what your intention was, with trying to correct me there.

I used the word in the context of: you can't fix what you don't know is a mistake to fix, ergo an over site more than a mistake.  I tend to think of it as byproduct of constantly having to improve something that is already beyond the scope of the human mind to hold as a whole object.    

[mr moose]

13 minutes ago, INTELisINNOCENT said:

This is the people on LTT and they're aggro about it.

 

Wait until the guy that makes toys shows up and demands you put a price on them, ew.

It's also the mentality here that if someone has a different opinion that you start to get called a child and naive I.E:

 

55 minutes ago, Hellion said:

... Is that honestly your mentality here? That of a child?

 

...

Are you really that naive?

 

 

You see, some people just make mistakes while others assume you are saying something different and get a bee in their bonnet.

 

[TheCherryKing]

Where is the update for Windows 8.1?

[mr moose]

5 minutes ago, TheCherryKing said:

Where is the update for Windows 8.1?

Tuesday release I believe.

[Huggles]

39 minutes ago, TheCherryKing said:

Where is the update for Windows 8.1?

Due to the details being released early, Microsoft released the patches early.

 

Windows 8.1: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4056898/windows-81-update-kb4056898

Windows 7 SP1: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4056897/windows-7-update-kb4056897

 

[Skanky Sylveon]

Whoa this thread is big...

 

My current thoughts on the matter.

 

Due to the fact that NVME storage was hit the most, even though it was still minor, I feel like this will affect servers more then desktops/workstations.

I have a feeling that Intel will optimize the patch over time so that the performance drop is almost non existent.  Remember, this was probably a quick and dirty fix.

 

As far as AMD is concerned, Their FX processors seemed to be vulnerable to a lesser degree, but I saw nothing on Ryzen.

Since Ryzen was a brand new architecture, that was built from the ground up.  It wouldn't surprise me if it isn't affected.

 

I doubt that this incident will give AMD any significant advantage over Intel in terms of IPC though.

Either way, i'm glad that this vulnerability is getting fixed.  While not much of an issue for an individual, this is a huge risk for medical companies/banks and the like.

 

What interests me is the sheer amount of CPUs affected.  I wonder if Intel's competitors copied their architecture to some extent?

[ItsMitch]

Just now, Cinnabar Sonar said:

What interests me is the sheer amount of CPUs affected.  I wonder if Intel's competitors copied their architecture to some extent

I would do a write up on every CPU affected but, sorry I can't be bothered to go through decades of Intel CPU's and to independently verify them, a list would be pretty kind from Intel and it wouldn't surprise me if people have copied them.

[JCMPTech]

I hope this is a coincidence but about an hour or so ago my laptop rebooted for a windows update, and saints row the 3rd went form 60fps to  now low teens unplayable.

[mr moose]

15 minutes ago, Huggles said:

Due to the details being released early, Microsoft released the patches early.

 

Windows 8.1: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4056898/windows-81-update-kb4056898

Windows 7 SP1: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4056897/windows-7-update-kb4056897

 

even betterer.

[Okjoek]

Aaaayy MD

[Stefan Payne]

Can it get any worse?!

 

YES, IT CAN!

 

 

 

[ItsMitch]

1 minute ago, Stefan Payne said:

Can it get any worse?!

 

YES, IT CAN!

 

 

 

pass me the fucking bleach, my cpu will be crippled

[Skanky Sylveon]

Some research later.

Ryzen is immune to Meltdown, but not Spectre v1 or v2.

The Meltdown fix is the one that sees the potentially large performance drops.

 

Although Spectre v1 is hard to pull off, and Spectre v2 is hard to pull off with AMD CPUs.

The fixes for both Spectre v1 and v2 have a negligible impact on performance.

[Zodiark1593]

https://developer.arm.com/support/security-update

 

How very interesting. It would seem that ARM's upcoming Cortex A75 is vulnerable to the "Meltdown" variant (Rogue Data Cache Load) of this vulnerability that seems to have afflicted Intel CPUs. In addition, ARM seems to indicate that anything using it's in-order cores (Cortex A7, A53, A55) are safe from all variants of the "Meltdown" and "Spectre" vulnerabilities. For Qualcomm's original Kryo, who can say? It is (probably) safe to use your Raspberry Pis for banking and handling your more sensitive information however.

 

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208394

 

Further, while Apple didn't say directly, it is stated (twice) that mitigations for "Meltdown" were included in both macOS 10.13.2, and iOS 11.2, potentially implying that Apple's custom CPU cores may also have been vulnerable to "Meltdown".

 

[NumLock21]

Microsoft has  released the patch for this flaw. It's a manual download and install.

•    Windows 10 Fall Creators Update is receiving KB4056892 (Build 16299.192)
•    Windows 10 Creators Update Version 17033 gets KB4056891 (Build 15063.850)
•    Version 1607 is getting KB4056890 (Build 14393.2007)
•    1511 receives KB4056888 (Build 10586.1356) – for enterprise and education only.
•    The original Windows 10 version is receiving KB4056893 (Build 10240.17738) – for enterprise only.

[ItsMitch]

Just now, NumLock21 said:

Microsoft has  released the patch for this flaw. It's a manual download and install.

•    Windows 10 Fall Creators Update is receiving KB4056892 (Build 16299.192)
•    Windows 10 Creators Update Version 17033 gets KB4056891 (Build 15063.850)
•    Version 1607 is getting KB4056890 (Build 14393.2007)
•    1511 receives KB4056888 (Build 10586.1356) – for enterprise and education only.
•    The original Windows 10 version is receiving KB4056893 (Build 10240.17738) – for enterprise only.

warning: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/01/04/microsoft_windows_patch_meltdown/