First Amendment right.

[AngryBeaver]

So if anyone remembers this ruling recently.

https://reason.com/blog/2018/06/27/breaking-supreme-court-janus-ruling

 

If basically says that forcing union dues was a breach of our first amendment right. That giving money to something like this was considered supporting them and not paying these dues was a way to show we did not support their views etc.

 

So does this create a loophole for taxes? I am being forced in to paying these "Dues" for decision being made by our president that I do not support, nor agree with. So going off the above ruling why would this be any different?

[AntiTrust]

13 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

-

you can't opt out of being American and still live in the USA. This ruling said that if you opt out of joining a union you dont have to pay their dues. Makes perfect sense to me

[Catsrules]

This sounds like it only applies to people who are not part of the Union. If you don't join why should you pay is basically what I am getting from it. I am guessing you are a US citizen. Being a US citizen you have basically joined the "Union" and as a requirement of joining you have to pay taxes. Doesn't matter if you agree or not you are a member of the USA.

 

 

[Velcade]

Unions and Taxes are not the same thing.  You should do a little more reading on both.

[Mooshi]

I don't think posters fully read. It's not union as on 50 US states forming a union. It's union as in something like a teacher's union. The post said citizens of Illinois were forced to subsidize unions that they politically don't agree with.

[Shimejii]

36 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

So if anyone remembers this ruling recently.

https://reason.com/blog/2018/06/27/breaking-supreme-court-janus-ruling

 

If basically says that forcing union dues was a breach of our first amendment right. That giving money to something like this was considered supporting them and not paying these dues was a way to show we did not support their views etc.

 

So does this create a loophole for taxes? I am being forced in to paying these "Dues" for decision being made by our president that I do not support, nor agree with. So going off the above ruling why would this be any different?

I always found it really dumb when people go full tard because you dont support a president. Taxes pay for tons of things in your community and roads, along with a ton more. Sure you may not like the oompa loompa,  but that doesnt mean you stop paying taxes. Sure taxes suck and can take out a lot of what you make per year, but on the otherhand if you had to pay for a road to be paved collectively in your community that would be super expensive as well. Schooling is difficult to run without it, transportation is hard. Money is important for many aspects of your life you take for granted, that if you didnt pay taxes towards would end up like some countries going through hell, Look at most South american countries, African countries. Sure we may not be perfect or a shining example, but because we have so many people to help others out it makes life better for the majority rather then people hoarding all of it.

 

 

Are there taxes that could be removed and put elsewhere? Sure. A reshuffling of funds every few years and making sure our money is being wellspent and justifiably spent helps. But thats a lot of work and corruption tends to be popular when laziness kicks in and money isnt being tracked.

 

[Catsrules]

2 minutes ago, Shimejii said:

I always found it really dumb when people go full tard because you dont support a president. Taxes pay for tons of things in your community and roads, along with a ton more. Sure you may not like the oompa loompa,  but that doesnt mean you stop paying taxes. Sure taxes suck and can take out a lot of what you make per year, but on the otherhand if you had to pay for a road to be paved collectively in your community that would be super expensive as well. Schooling is difficult to run without it, transportation is hard. Money is important for many aspects of your life you take for granted, that if you didnt pay taxes towards would end up like some countries going through hell, Look at most South american countries, African countries. Sure we may not be perfect or a shining example, but because we have so many people to help others out it makes life better for the majority rather then people hoarding all of it.

 

 

I know can you imagination if you didn't have to pay taxes if you don't agree with the president/government.

No one would agree with the president/government, even if they did agree with the president/government lol.

[AngryBeaver]

4 minutes ago, Shimejii said:

I always found it really dumb when people go full tard because you dont support a president. Taxes pay for tons of things in your community and roads, along with a ton more. Sure you may not like the oompa loompa,  but that doesnt mean you stop paying taxes. Sure taxes suck and can take out a lot of what you make per year, but on the otherhand if you had to pay for a road to be paved collectively in your community that would be super expensive as well. Schooling is difficult to run without it, transportation is hard. Money is important for many aspects of your life you take for granted, that if you didnt pay taxes towards would end up like some countries going through hell, Look at most South american countries, African countries. Sure we may not be perfect or a shining example, but because we have so many people to help others out it makes life better for the majority rather then people hoarding all of it.

 

 

Are there taxes that could be removed and put elsewhere? Sure. A reshuffling of funds every few years and making sure our money is being wellspent and justifiably spent helps. But thats a lot of work and corruption tends to be popular when laziness kicks in and money isnt being tracked.

 

It isn't just the president. It is the corrupt government and political/justice system we have created. We allow corporations to donate hug sums of money to politicians to help get them elected which has lead to basically buying of politicians who have no choice by to pander to these wealthy donors.

 

Then we have a justice system that doesn't care about finding the facts or truth, but of trying to get a conviction no matter what and just building a story to push that issue. Then there is all the systemic racism concerns we still face today.

 

We have created a system that lets those with wealthy loophole their way out of paying taxes (like trump does) or paying far less than their share. Yet, we don't do anything to address the issue and actually help those who are below the poverty line. We have veterans in this country who were willing to die and risk it all, yet are homeless on the streets (this I find to be one of the most unforgivable actions yet).

 

I mean don't get me wrong, I make good money and don't mind paying taxes. I just don't feel it is being used wisely and I also don't think we are doing a good job making sure everyone gives their fair share. If I am giving 28% of what I make yearly (around 40k) then why aren't we seeing that at the top. If I have the ability to pay those taxes and still have expendable income to spare, then I know it exists even higher up the chain for people making 10X what i make. So why give them the ability to drop that down to a fraction of what they can pay. If we made sure the middle class and above were paying their taxes without fail... then we could drastically reduce the taxes on those with low incomes. Maybe even give them a little extra money to put towards things they need.

 

Let me be clear I do not want socialism or anything like it. I just want people paying their fair share. As it stands that isn't happening. Our own President is an offender of this. He brags that he doesn't pay taxes "because he is smart."

 

The biggest problem is they are slowly stealing our ability to do anything about it as an average citizen. The fourth amendment right we have was mostly put in place to give us the ability to force a militia and combat a corrupt government and restore the balance... the problem is that it is just another outdated mechanic in our amendment rights. It doesn't work with the advancements we've had in technological warfare. We have things like tanks, drones, and biggest of all weapons of mass destruction. There is no rising up against that. The amendments were a good starting foundation, but overtime they have changed in meaning or interpretation or just become out right dated.

 

Lastly, something else about that article. This particular person was no actually a part of the union, but was also gaining all of the benefits it offered. The ruling has essentially made it where you can be a member of these unions and still not pay. They have put in place several measures to make it hard for them to collect their dues. So in the end people will be gaining all the benefits of the unions without needing to pay for them... which means the members that do are going to be paying higher dues or stop paying and increase the dues further. This is just another way of the government killing off a way for certain groups to protect and better themselves... and gives more power to the greedy corporations that put these politicians in power.

[dizmo]

Do you pay union dues and you're part of the union? If so, it doesn't apply to you. Looks like this was for people who were paying union dues for unions they were not a part of.

[AngryBeaver]

7 minutes ago, dizmo said:

Do you pay union dues and you're part of the union? If so, it doesn't apply to you. Looks like this was for people who were paying union dues for unions they were not a part of.

The thing is the people "not a part of these unions" Gain most of the benefits of the union regardless. Also you can now choose to stop paying your dues and still keep those benefits.

[2FA]

9 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

The thing is the people "not a part of these unions" Gain most of the benefits of the union regardless. Also you can now choose to stop paying your dues and still keep those benefits.

Except they lose any potential negotiating rights they had and all their benefits are reliant upon the union negotiating a good contract, which may or may not happen.

[AngryBeaver]

2 minutes ago, 2FA said:

Except they lose any potential negotiating rights they had and all their benefits are reliant upon the union negotiating a good contract, which may or may not happen.

Have you ever been part of a union? If so you would know that unless you are chosen to be one of the few that represents the union then you do not have much if any say in the negotiations regardless.

[Wh0_Am_1]

I don't think people understand what is going on here, a union is a group of workers of a certain craft whom share political views, whom lobby the government so they can attempt to convince/fund government officials who share their same views, these unions have no real governmental authority, and they shouldn't, and the effects of these lobbyings, are sometimes not beneficial, in fact it is arguable that these lobbyings are often detrimental to the members of the craft. For instance say that you were hypothetically an employee of a welding company in California, and by law you are forced to fund a union whom was of the opinion that African Americans SHOULD be slaves, and making them so would improve the craft, (remember this is hypothetical but this isn't the craziest thing for a Union to support, there are equally crazy and evil unions out there whom use lies and sweet words to convince you that there cause is great when it is truly evil, on the other hand their are also good unions that do real good) and because of that you decide not to join the union, but that doesn't change the fact that you would have to pay dues to them, a group of workers whom decided to lobby the government to fulfill their beliefs and desires, to incentivise the creation of laws that align with their views, and support those whom agree with them. Obviously if that were the case you would want to be angry and spend your money elsewhere like on a house or supporting a cause that you agree with, but until this development they had the full support of the law to make you lose your job if you refuse to pay their dues. I believe that the American Supreme court made the right call in this instance, and that this is a good day for freedom in the US.

[2FA]

1 minute ago, AngryBeaver said:

Have you ever been part of a union? If so you would know that unless you are chosen to be one of the few that represents the union then you do not have much if any say in the negotiations regardless.

Yes I have, and you're allowed to voice your opinions to the negotiating committee.

[dalekphalm]

Just now, AngryBeaver said:

Have you ever been part of a union? If so you would know that unless you are chosen to be one of the few that represents the union then you do not have much if any say in the negotiations regardless.

That's not entirely true. The union still has to follow the will of it's members. If a majority vote to reject an offer, then the union has to reject that offer.

 

Typically though, the union uses it's experience in negotiating to aim for a realistic goal.

 

The point being, if you work at a unionized job, you don't have to join the union - though you get whatever the union negotiates. On the flip side, you have no control or say in the union.

 

So the benefit to paying your dues and joining the union is getting a voice in what the union stands for (and by extension, what it tries to secure in terms of benefits).

[Amazonsucks]

42 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

Have you ever been part of a union? If so you would know that unless you are chosen to be one of the few that represents the union then you do not have much if any say in the negotiations regardless.

Sounds pretty pointless to be in one then. Put your money into investments instead of pointless dues maybe?

 

And I hope youre Boycotting Amazon and Walmart too. You can complain about the president dodging taxes, but Amazon and Walmart are two of the biggest offenders, and the scumbag billionaires that run both companies should be in jail and their wealth distributed to the communities they destroyed. Although the idiots who shop there and made them rich are guilty too tbh.

[rcmaehl]

2 hours ago, AngryBeaver said:

So does this create a loophole for taxes? I am being forced in to paying these "Dues" for decision being made by our president that I do not support, nor agree with. So going off the above ruling why would this be any different?

No, but you can argue it all you want and go down the rabbit hole of "sovereign citizens". Which will make legal stuff even more long and drawn out than normal but will ultimately end in a jail sentence, if not several, including contempt of court. If you do go down this rabbit hole, let me know as I know a few places that'll love to watch the drama.

[Tog Driver]

16 minutes ago, Amazonsucks said:

And I hope youre Boycotting Amazon and Walmart too

As soon as I read this I knew it was you without checking the name.

 wait, Amazon and Walmart have destroyed communities?

[Amazonsucks]

6 minutes ago, TheClueLessMajority said:

As soon as I read this I knew it was you without checking the name.

 wait, Amazon and Walmart have destroyed communities?

Yes, many of them. Have you been using the internet for more than a few weeks? There have been groups that try to block Walmart from going into communities for decades because of the destruction they cause to the local economy. Amazon has only gotten big in recent years but tons of legitinate businesses are already destroyed because of them. 

 

I say legitimate because they dont depend on taxpayer funded scams that allow them to operate at a loss like Amazon does to decimate their competition. Amazon is not a legitimate business.

 

The people dumb enough to shop at either place simply manufacture the metaphorical weapons that will later be used to destroy them.

[Tog Driver]

12 minutes ago, Amazonsucks said:

Yes, many of them. Have you been using the internet for more than a few weeks?

No.

[JoostinOnline]

5 hours ago, AntiTrust said:

you can't opt out of being American and still live in the USA.

You think every person living in the USA is an American?

[Drak3]

5 hours ago, AngryBeaver said:

Then there is all the systemic racism concerns we still face today.

We don't have systematic racism.

[dizmo]

1 hour ago, AngryBeaver said:

The thing is the people "not a part of these unions" Gain most of the benefits of the union regardless. Also you can now choose to stop paying your dues and still keep those benefits.

So the problem is...what?

[W-L]

Quote

No trolling or flame-bait.

• This includes topics such as AMD vs NVIDIA, "company X sucks", and political or religious debates.

 

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