Supreme Court Nominee: ISPs have 1st Amendment right to block websites

[leadeater]

1 minute ago, Sauron said:

If you were in the IT business in the late 90's you probably had no choice but to learn how to internet the hard way.

I'd reply to you but first I have to dial in to the BBS..... damn it who picked up the pho... *message transmission interrupted*

[Vode]

44 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

What do you expect?!
He's old, 50+.

And with that he doesn't understand technology.

You have to be someone who grow up with the Internet to understand it. Youc can't just learn it.

 

ANd that means born in the 80s because the Internet rose in the late 90s and really came to fruitition in the mid 2000s. Its a brand new phenomena!

 

 

How can you expect a 50+ person to understand something that grew like mushrooms in the last two decades???

That's a pretty ignorant and shallow statement.

 

Even if he doesn't understand it, age has nothing to do with it.

[Pixel5]

28 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

I think because he is 50+ or so, he does not know the Internet or how it really works because it is possible that he barely has any contact with that.

 

I know that because I have an "elderly" person right next to me and see that person every day and know how they use the "Internet". Or rather not use. 

it might be that hes old and doesnt understand it but thats not why he is saying what he is right now, its because he gets money from ISP to say what they want him to say.

[AHaskin14]

6 minutes ago, Sauron said:

From what I can tell he's saying they can do whatever the hell they want with it because they have "editorial rights" on that content. And if they can block it at will, it follows that they can then charge you to get it back.

Well, freedom was nice while it lasted...As long as they don't find a way to block the forum I'm content!

[mr moose]

3 minutes ago, leadeater said:

I'd reply to you but first I have to dial in to the BBS..... damn it who picked up the pho... *message transmission interrupted*

In the words of the local PC user group secretary:

 

"please, when you login to the server, find what you want, download it and then log off so others can have a turn, don't try and download the full 40MB in one night or no one will get a turn".

[Master Disaster]

4 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

He might, he might not.

But with his age, the Internet wasn't a thing for about half a century...

 

That's something you miss. The Rise of the Internet only began 10-15 Years ago. 

 

You and I might know about that, but most people above a certain age do not...

Do you even know who he is?

 

He invented HTTP and is the current leader of the W3C, his job is to oversee and approve the development and standardisation of WWW protocols.

 

I feel you need a bit of a lesson in computing history tbh.

 

The Internet was invented by the US military and federal government in the 60s though it was originally called ARPANET and was intended to allow computers from different military academies and universities to talk to each other.

 

By the early 80s ARPANET was in use by lots of business and private entities so during the 80s a push was made to unify all the separated networks into a single conjoined network called NSFNET.

 

By the early 90s NSFNET had evolved into what we call the modern internet, while it was still mostly only used by business and academia it was using TCP/IP and had spread worldwide.

 

By the mid 90s things had changed, public PC ownership was growing hugely and the public were all logging onto BBs to share data and talk to each other.

 

While this growth was happening Lee was working at MIT, he'd had the idea for

HTTP back in 89, had presented the paper in 90 and by 91 was employed at MIT developing his idea.

 

By 95 when BBs were hugely popular across the world Lee founded W3C at MIT and presented HTTP as a way of standardising internet communications, within a year HTTP had taken and by 1997 HTTP/1.1 was accepted as the industry standard.

 

To this day he is responsible for accepting protocol changes to the standard he invented and I guarantee you nobody on the face of the planet knows more about how the world wide web works than he does.

[asus killer]

3 minutes ago, Pixel5 said:

it might be that hes old and doesnt understand it but thats not why he is saying what he is right now, its because he gets money from ISP to say what they want him to say.

but why would an ISP want to block a website or "exercise editorial control over Internet" content.anyway? why would they care? i don't get it

 

receiving money from twitter to block facebook?

 

 

[leadeater]

2 minutes ago, mr moose said:

don't try and download the full 40MB in one night or no one will get a turn

That just brought back some very painful memories *shudder*. Downloaded a game demo that was 600MB on 33kbps dial-up, 16 failed attempts later and 4 different download managers gave up and downloaded it at my fathers work on their blistering fast 128kbps ISDN connection.

[Pixel5]

1 minute ago, asus killer said:

but why would an ISP want to block a website or "exercise editorial control over Internet" content.anyway? why would they care? i don't get it

 

receiving money from twitter to block facebook?

 

 

yes what you said could very well be a reasonable thing to do but generally they want to have the permission to block websites so they can charge you extra for them.

 

imagine you dont buy your internet access like you do today, instead you buy access to certain websites and if you want to access another site you need to buy another package and pay more.

 

the ultimate goal is to pull as much money out of your pocket as possible.

[mr moose]

3 minutes ago, asus killer said:

but why would an ISP want to block a website or "exercise editorial control over Internet" content.anyway? why would they care? i don't get it

 

receiving money from twitter to block facebook?

 

 

Or maybe they will block websites with a specific poitical leaning/agenda, maybe they could block access to government websites like the FTC.  Once you can stop the masses getting to certain information you have more control over what information they do get.

[Stefan Payne]

17 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Hmm, well where I work the place is filled with 50+ and so is my father, who also works in IT. In fact in senior technical positions and positions of higher authority those are dominated by 45+ aged persons.

Yes, of course there are people. But he is already an IT Guy, while we are talking about what the Internet tends to call "normies".

Even if he is a Judge or so, that doesn't mean that he is into technology.

 

And that is a huge problem, that the Lawmakers or Judges don't understand Technology, that I agree.

And that causes most of the Problems we have right now...

While I agree that we need some new "Internet Laws", the ones that are done right now go in the wrong direction, because people don't understand shit about what they are trying to regulate...

17 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Some of the most clueless in regards to computers and internet in general that I have meet are between the ages of 15 to 35, but even then age itself as nothing to do with that.

No, but probability

Those 15-35 year olds aren't the Gender Studies type, are they?

 

Lets say it this way:
The probability that an IT Guy knows the Internet very well is extremely high, regardless of age.

The Probability that a lawyer knows about that, depends on the Interest.

Especially if they don't have the time to read up on that stuff...

 

A good example of a Technological-Analphabet is for example Jordan Peterson. The battery of his camera runs out all the time when he's livestreaming on Youtube.

 

And that is the point I'm trying to make, that older people tend to be more the "analogue guys", who go out doing stuff like tending their garden, plowing some piece of land or use other "analogue attractions".

[mr moose]

3 minutes ago, leadeater said:

That just brought back some very painful memories *shudder*. Downloaded a game demo that was 600MB on 33kbps dial-up, 16 failed attempts later and 4 different download managers gave up and downloaded it at my fathers work on their blistering fast 128kbps ISDN connection.

you need getright.  

 

The first thing I think of when someone reminds me of the BB days are all the midi files.  three different doctor who themes, ghost busters and axel f.

[Stefan Payne]

9 minutes ago, asus killer said:

but why would an ISP want to block a website or "exercise editorial control over Internet" content.anyway? why would they care? i don't get it

 

receiving money from twitter to block facebook?

There are some instances where a domain name was seized without a warrant. One of the purpetrators was AFAIR Google. I won't name that site but lets say that its said to be very political incorrect.

There was another, similar case.

 

Or something more recent was that payment providers stopped working with some other companys. Like Bitchute. Or Accounts from People get suspended for no reason. Milo Y's Paypal Account got suspended after he privately messaged a Journalist. Another case is Jihadwatch. And there are a dozen more of those examples...

 

So we already have cases where websites can't function because of their political leaning...

[leadeater]

7 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

Yes, of course there are people. But he is already an IT Guy, while we are talking about what the Internet tends to call "normies".

And the majority of people in the world do not work in IT either. The normal populous have zero clue how internet traffic works, how data get to places, what it runs over, where websites are hosted, who hosts them. Literally 4 days ago that very topic came up on the radio on my drive to work, the only person who was even slightly close was a software programmer that rang in and even he wasn't 100% technically correct and he works in IT!

 

Edit:

People still think the internet travels over power lines, that's the level of common knowledge of the internet we are dealing with.

[mr moose]

11 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

Yes, of course there are people. But he is already an IT Guy, while we are talking about what the Internet tends to call "normies".

Even if he is a Judge or so, that doesn't mean that he is into technology.

 

And that is a huge problem, that the Lawmakers or Judges don't understand Technology, that I agree.

And that causes most of the Problems we have right now...

While I agree that we need some new "Internet Laws", the ones that are done right now go in the wrong direction, because people don't understand shit about what they are trying to regulate...

No, but probability

Those 15-35 year olds aren't the Gender Studies type, are they?

 

Lets say it this way:
The probability that an IT Guy knows the Internet very well is extremely high, regardless of age.

The Probability that a lawyer knows about that, depends on the Interest.

Especially if they don't have the time to read up on that stuff...

 

A good example of a Technological-Analphabet is for example Jordan Peterson. The battery of his camera runs out all the time when he's livestreaming on Youtube.

 

And that is the point I'm trying to make, that older people tend to be more the "analogue guys", who go out doing stuff like tending their garden, plowing some piece of land or use other "analogue attractions".

You're still assuming age has something to do with it.

We don't know whether this dick understands the internet or not.  Judges are not experts in anything except law, that is why in a court case ( or federal agency investigation) all the evidence is presented before a decision is made.  So his understanding of the internet is largely irrelevant, especially seeing as he is probably corrupt it wouldn't help anyway.

[Stefan Payne]

10 minutes ago, leadeater said:

That just brought back some very painful memories *shudder*. Downloaded a game demo that was 600MB on 33kbps dial-up, 16 failed attempts later and 4 different download managers gave up and downloaded it at my fathers work on their blistering fast 128kbps ISDN connection.

I remember but I didn't have a 33kbps dial up for long, got ISDN pretty quickly. Because there was an ISDN Flatrate here in Germany at the time. 

it was like 6kbyte/sec or something like that (don't really remember)...

 

But they then stopped the ISDN Flatrate...
And then ADSL Came, with a whopping 1MBit Downstream - right now I have 100MBit down...

[Random_User123]

1 hour ago, Stefan Payne said:

What do you expect?!
He's old, 50+.

And with that he doesn't understand technology.

You have to be someone who grow up with the Internet to understand it. Youc can't just learn it.

 

ANd that means born in the 80s because the Internet rose in the late 90s and really came to fruitition in the mid 2000s. Its a brand new phenomena!

 

 

How can you expect a 50+ person to understand something that grew like mushrooms in the last two decades???

I totally agree, and if he does understand something about technology I bet you the money he's getting is way nicer..

[asus killer]

8 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

There are some instances where a domain name was seized without a warrant. One of the purpetrators was AFAIR Google. I won't name that site but lets say that its said to be very political incorrect.

There was another, similar case.

 

Or something more recent was that payment providers stopped working with some other companys. Like Bitchute. Or Accounts from People get suspended for no reason. Milo Y's Paypal Account got suspended after he privately messaged a Journalist. Another case is Jihadwatch. And there are a dozen more of those examples...

 

So we already have cases where websites can't function because of their political leaning...

i'm not in the US so i guess i don't see it from your perspective, i don't see how this become complicated.

If a site is doing something illegal it should be the state by the courts to close it not the ISP. And if the ISP does something shady to a website, they could go to court and ask for free speech protection.

I mean the ISP should just be the means for us to access the internet, nothing more.

[Stefan Payne]

1 minute ago, asus killer said:

i'm not in the US so i guess i don't see it from your perspective, i don't see how this become complicated.

Neither am I nor is Bitchute. They are based in UK...

And still had their Payment provider cancel their contract...

 

1 minute ago, asus killer said:

If a site is doing something illegal it should be the state by the courts to close it not the ISP. And if the ISP does something shady to a website, they could go to court and ask for free speech protection.

I mean the ISP should just be the means for us to access the internet, nothing more.

Exactly that is NOT what was happening!

I don't know of any court orders but I know that there were a couple of sites to go down and Paypal to cancel some accounts due to their political believes...

 

In one case there was a domain registrar that removed the site.

 

And if a site did something illegal, you can shut them down!
Some form of illegal content can be shut down within a couple of hours - worldwide. But that's obviously illegal content.

 

But we are not talking about those. We are talking about Political sites. Some that don't even promote violence. While the one that do promote violence only get shut down reluctantly if at all.

 

 

 

[Stefan Payne]

15 minutes ago, Random_User123 said:

I totally agree, and if he does understand something about technology I bet you the money he's getting is way nicer..

Yeah and that leads to the 100 Dollar Question:
How do you educate those people?

 

You can't just go and talk to them.

And they probably don't have a Twitter account or some other electronics form.

So that leaves a Letter. But you still can't know that it will be read. It mostly will not...

[asus killer]

8 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

Neither am I nor is Bitchute. They are based in UK...

And still had their Payment provider cancel their contract...

 

Exactly that is NOT what was happening!

I don't know of any court orders but I know that there were a couple of sites to go down and Paypal to cancel some accounts due to their political believes...

 

In one case there was a domain registrar that removed the site.

 

And if a site did something illegal, you can shut them down!
Some form of illegal content can be shut down within a couple of hours - worldwide. But that's obviously illegal content.

 

But we are not talking about those. We are talking about Political sites. Some that don't even promote violence. While the one that do promote violence only get shut down reluctantly if at all.

 

 

 

yes but Paypal or any other service could have a policy about some content, i don't know but seems reasonable it's their company their rules.

But the ISP is different, they should just be the thing that gets us the internet. I mean if my ISP suddenly doesn't like Porn and block all Porn, then they probably shouldn't be in the ISP business, shouldn't be allowed to operate. 

[Teddy07]

1 hour ago, Stefan Payne said:

What do you expect?!
He's old, 50+.

And with that he doesn't understand technology.

1

You should be ashamed of yourself. You discriminate against older people. 

[Stefan Payne]

2 minutes ago, Teddy07 said:

You should be ashamed of yourself. You discriminate against older people. 

We discriminate every day, all the time.

You did that a couple of minutes ago while choosing to read this topic and replying to it but not the others. That is also discrimination.

 

Or the people you choose to date. You don't do it with everyone, do you? That's also a form of discrimination. That happens all the time.

 

And I don't discriminate, I tell you (or trying to) that older people usually just have completely different interests!

They choose to do so for themselves!
They don't use the Internet because they don't want/need to. And they don't want to learn new things.

That is not discrimination, that is stating facts.

[Arika]

31 minutes ago, leadeater said:

And the majority of people in the world do not work in IT either. The normal populous have zero clue how internet traffic works, how data get to places, what it runs over, where websites are hosted, who hosts them.

I like to think i'm pretty tech savvy, but i don't think i could confidently explain how the internet works.

 

It's a series of tubes, magic tells the data where to go.

 

how'd i do?

[leadeater]

1 minute ago, Arika S said:

It's a series of tubes, magic tells the data where to go.

 

how'd i do?

110.5% correct, bonus points awarded for successful detect magic roll.