Supreme Court Nominee: ISPs have 1st Amendment right to block websites

[DuckDodgers]

Quote

President Trump's Supreme Court nominee argued last year that net neutrality rules violate the First Amendment rights of Internet service providers by preventing them from "exercising editorial control" over Internet content.

 

Trump's pick is Brett Kavanaugh, a judge on the US Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit. The DC Circuit twice upheld the net neutrality rules passed by the Federal Communications Commission under former Chairman Tom Wheeler, despite Kavanaugh's dissent. (In another tech-related case, Kavanaugh ruled that the National Security Agency's bulk collection of telephone metadata is legal.)

 

While current FCC Chairman Ajit Pai eliminated the net neutrality rules, Kavanaugh could help restrict the FCC's authority to regulate Internet providers as a member of the Supreme Court. Broadband industry lobby groups have continued to seek Supreme Court review of the legality of Wheeler's net neutrality rules even after Pai's repeal.

Quote

Under Supreme Court precedents, "the First Amendment bars the Government from restricting the editorial discretion of Internet service providers, absent a showing that an Internet service provider possesses market power in a relevant geographic market," Kavanaugh wrote. "Here, however, the FCC has not even tried to make a market power showing. Therefore, under the Supreme Court's precedents applying the First Amendment, the net neutrality rule violates the First Amendment."

Judge: Like cable TV, ISPs “decide” which websites to transmit

 

This same logic could be used to argue that it's an untenable first amendment violation when phone companies are forced to treat telephone conversations neutrally, and the agency specifically has the authority to regulate communications services like Internet. The fact that he argues Congress didn't give the FCC authority to reclassify ISPs as Title II, despite the fact that they're classified under Title I specifically by the FCC, specifically because the FCC has the authority to classify them does not help. Ugh...

 

Source: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/07/net-neutrality-rules-are-illegal-according-to-trumps-supreme-court-pick/

[Stefan Payne]

What do you expect?!
He's old, 50+.

And with that he doesn't understand technology.

You have to be someone who grow up with the Internet to understand it. Youc can't just learn it.

 

ANd that means born in the 80s because the Internet rose in the late 90s and really came to fruitition in the mid 2000s. Its a brand new phenomena!

 

 

How can you expect a 50+ person to understand something that grew like mushrooms in the last two decades???

[Master Disaster]

5 minutes ago, DuckDodgers said:

Snip...

Honestly, with the way the US is going, the UK still pushing to ban pornography and the EUs Copyright Bill I'm worried over how the internet is going to look in 10 years time.

[mr moose]

6 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

What do you expect?!
He's old, 50+.

And with that he doesn't understand technology.

You have to be someone who grow up with the Internet to understand it. Youc can't just learn it.

 

ANd that means born in the 80s because the Internet rose in the late 90s and really came to fruitition in the mid 2000s. Its a brand new phenomena!

 

 

How can you expect a 50+ person to understand something that grew like mushrooms in the last two decades???

 

What is it with these ignorant statements about age?  Do you really think that because he's 50 there is no way he can understand the internet?  do you honestly think you have to have grown up with something to understand it? 

[asus killer]

11 minutes ago, DuckDodgers said:

 

  Quote

President Trump's Supreme Court nominee argued last year that net neutrality rules violate the First Amendment rights of Internet service providers by preventing them from "exercising editorial control" over Internet content.

 

i'm confused. Shouldn't the 1st amendment protect free speech and press? isn't "editorial control" over the internet exactly the opposite to the law?

[Stefan Payne]

4 minutes ago, mr moose said:

 

What is it with these ignorant statements about age?  Do you really think that because he's 50 there is no way he can understand the internet?  do you honestly think you have to have grown up with something to understand it? 

I think because he is 50+ or so, he does not know the Internet or how it really works because it is possible that he barely has any contact with that.

 

I know that because I have an "elderly" person right next to me and see that person every day and know how they use the "Internet". Or rather not use. 

[Master Disaster]

2 minutes ago, asus killer said:

i'm confused. Shouldn't the 1st amendment protect free speech and press? isn't "editorial control" over the internet exactly the opposite to the law?

Remember Trump recently argued that he could block a US citizen from seeing his Twitter posts because it was his personal account despite the fact he now uses it to mainly post presidential information. Needless to say, the Supreme court disagreed.

 

These guys are experts at twisting facts to suit their own agendas while sometimes simultaneously hiding behind the very facts they're twisting.

[Master Disaster]

1 minute ago, Stefan Payne said:

I think because he is 50+ or so, he does not know the Internet or how it really works because it is possible that he barely has any contact with that.

 

I know that because I have an "elderly" person right next to me and see that person every day and know how they use the "Internet". Or rather not use. 

Tim Berners Lee is 63, you going to argue he doesn't understand the internet too?

[Stefan Payne]

2 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

Remember Trump recently argued that he could block a US citizen from seeing his Twitter posts because it was his personal account despite the fact he now uses it to mainly post presidential information. Needless to say, the Supreme court disagreed.

1. It was a person who constantly harrassed him.

2. The Supreme Court didn't rule on that (yet), AFAIR. At least not the one of the US.

3. With that ruling, and the other "Twitter Rulings", it goes a bit in the "public utility" ruling, that twitter is an open forum and they have to abide by the Law/Constitution.

2 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

These guys are experts at twisting facts to suit their own agendas while sometimes simultaneously hiding behind the very facts they're twisting.

...and that is why there is a constitution and some people are so called constitutionalists and others are not...

 

In short: Some take it literally, others interpret it.

[asus killer]

3 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

Remember Trump recently argued that he could block a US citizen from seeing his Twitter posts because it was his personal account despite the fact he now uses it to mainly post presidential information. Needless to say, the Supreme court disagreed.

 

These guys are experts at twisting facts to suit their own agendas while sometimes simultaneously hiding behind the very facts they're twisting.

i guess sometimes you can get a opposing argument and it may or may not be right, but here it seems so straight forward that i can't imagine the argument to defend the opposite. Maybe he could convince me, maybe a very good argument i can't see, but i'm really skeptic, i can't see how someone can spin this.

Remenber Trump is Trump, this dude is a judge, it can't just be "because i say so"

[Amazonsucks]

21 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

What do you expect?!
He's old, 50+.

And with that he doesn't understand technology.

You have to be someone who grow up with the Internet to understand it. Youc can't just learn it.

 

ANd that means born in the 80s because the Internet rose in the late 90s and really came to fruitition in the mid 2000s. Its a brand new phenomena!

 

 

How can you expect a 50+ person to understand something that grew like mushrooms in the last two decades???

Most of the hapless techno weenie millennials have zero clue how the internet, programming, hardware, electronics in general WORK. They may know how to use them, but no clue how to design, build or make something that they consume and dispose of into the heap of e-waste they create with their vacuous consumerism.

 

Old people arent the only clueless ones. MOST people are clueless.

[Sakkura]

1 minute ago, Stefan Payne said:

...and that is why there is a constitution and some people are so called constitutionalists and others are not...

 

In short: Some take it literally, others interpret it.

Everyone interprets it. There's no "taking it literally" that isn't interpretative.

[Stefan Payne]

4 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

Tim Berners Lee is 63, you going to argue he doesn't understand the internet too?

He might, he might not.

But with his age, the Internet wasn't a thing for about half a century...

 

That's something you miss. The Rise of the Internet only began 10-15 Years ago. 

 

You and I might know about that, but most people above a certain age do not...

[mr moose]

3 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

I think because he is 50+ or so, he does not know the Internet or how it really works because it is possible that he barely has any contact with that.

 

I know that because I have an "elderly" person right next to me and see that person every day and know how they use the "Internet". Or rather not use. 

Age has absolutely nothing to do with it.  Age does not dictate what you can and can't learn.  There are ample people in the 60's who have been a part of the development of the internet over the last 2 decades.

 

In fact I would argue the opposite, those who have already attained an education and some experience in the industry and was there when the internet developed probably have a better understanding than most people under 30.

[Amazonsucks]

1 minute ago, Stefan Payne said:

He might, he might not.

But with his age, the Internet wasn't a thing for about half a century...

 

That's something you miss. The Rise of the Internet only began 10-15 Years ago. 

 

You and I might know about that, but most people above a certain age do not...

Um the rise of the internet began in the 90s, which was over 20 years ago. The rise of trash like facebook and amazon happened about 15 years ago.

[Stefan Payne]

1 minute ago, Amazonsucks said:

Most of the hapless techno weenie millennials have zero clue how the internet, programming, hardware, electronics in general WORK. They may know how to use them, but no clue how to design, build or make something that they consume and dispose of into the heap of e-waste they create with their vacuous consumerism.

Well, good thing I'm not a millenial

And I lived many years without a mobile phone. I got my first one in my 20s I believe. And it was a big brick that could fit 4 double A Batteries...

 

Still, I know the Internet, most in my family did not.

[Stefan Payne]

2 minutes ago, Amazonsucks said:

Um the rise of the internet began in the 90s, which was over 20 years ago. The rise of trash like facebook and amazon happened about 15 years ago.

Yeah, with the Nerds and other guys, who were into technology at the time.

For the "normal Populus" it was early 2000s.

 

Because you have to know about that stuff to get it and use it.

[leadeater]

15 minutes ago, asus killer said:

i'm confused. Shouldn't the 1st amendment protect free speech and press? isn't "editorial control" over the internet exactly the opposite to the law?

Maybe a side effect of the Supreme Court ruling that corporations are people so then should also have 1st amendment rights? No freakin clue tbh,

[Sauron]

I want to know what drugs he's taking, they must be good...

 

that's like saying the postman who delivers your newspaper has a first amendment right to charge you extra for it, change what's in it or not deliver it at all.

[leadeater]

19 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

I think because he is 50+ or so, he does not know the Internet or how it really works because it is possible that he barely has any contact with that.

 

I know that because I have an "elderly" person right next to me and see that person every day and know how they use the "Internet". Or rather not use. 

Hmm, well where I work the place is filled with 50+ and so is my father, who also works in IT. In fact in senior technical positions and positions of higher authority those are dominated by 45+ aged persons.

 

My father also happens to be an ex-electrician (still has limited registration), ex-licensed radio technician, ex-electronics repairer servicing all kind of things including the first giant near room sized HDDs and has been in the IT industry for over 25 years now, currently senior database administrator. Basically yea he and others of his age have an extremely good grasp of the internet, in fact more so than most.

 

Some of the most clueless in regards to computers and internet in general that I have meet are between the ages of 15 to 35, but even then age itself as nothing to do with that.

[Sakkura]

6 minutes ago, Sauron said:

I want to know what drugs he's taking, they must be good...

 

that's like saying the postman who delivers your newspaper has a first amendment right to charge you extra for it, change what's in it or not deliver it at all.

He's taking little green pieces of free speech from corporations people.

[AHaskin14]

If i'm reading correctly, the law would only uphold that an ISP can outright block a site (something like a KKK site i dont know) but doesn't mean they're allowed to block it and then charge more for access?

[mr moose]

9 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Hmm, well where I work the place is filled with 50+ and so is my father, who also works in IT. In fact in senior technical positions and positions of higher authority those are dominated by 45+ ages persons.

 

My father also happens to be an ex-electrician (still has limited registration), ex-license radio technician, ex-electronics repairer services all kind of things including the first giant near room sized HDDs and has been in the IT industry for over 25 years now, currently senior database administrator. Basically yea he and others of his age have an extremely good grasp of the internet, in fact more so that most.

 

Some of the most clueless in regards to computers and internet in general that I have meet are between the ages of 15 to 35, but even then age itself as nothing to do with that.

Absolutely.  Having worked in places with large IT infrastructure that has also been my experience.

 

On top of that, it may surprise some people to know that Australia's current prime minister (the one that said the law of the land trumped the laws of math) made $66Million dollars owning one of Australia's first internet companies (1994) and also made a substantial amount from starting a software development company that operated during that same period. EDIT: forgot to add, he's 63.

[Amazonsucks]

11 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

Yeah, with the Nerds and other guys, who were into technology at the time.

For the "normal Populus" it was early 2000s.

 

Because you have to know about that stuff to get it and use it.

The general population has always been clueless.

[Sauron]

2 minutes ago, AHaskin14 said:

If i'm reading correctly, the law would only uphold that an ISP can outright block a site (something like a KKK site i dont know) but doesn't mean they're allowed to block it and then charge more for access?

From what I can tell he's saying they can do whatever the hell they want with it because they have "editorial rights" on that content. And if they can block it at will, it follows that they can then charge you to get it back.

6 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Some of the most clueless in regards to computers and internet in general that I have meet are between the ages of 15 to 35, but even then age itself as nothing to do with that.

The more user friendly something gets, the more people will forget (or never learn) how it actually works. That's why so many people (including plenty who would consider themselves enthusiasts) are afraid of the command line, for example. If you were in the IT business in the late 90's you probably had no choice but to learn how to internet the hard way.