Ryzen 2700X OCed to 4.3Ghz (1.4v) across all cores, performance numbers included.

[jde3]

Just now, Drak3 said:

They introduced the idea of the stand alone tablet when everyone, including Apple, were pushing companion devices that served a few functions at most, in the late 90's and early '00's. Prior to the "revolutionary" iPad.

 

A good deal of it flopped because it wasn't marketted worth a fuck.

Your missing a HUGE point here. They make operating systems. They make super complicated software like kernels, file systems, schedulers.. where is the innovations here? If you compare them to Unix or Sun or Apple, they look like a joke. They made a hinge?

[jde3]

Just now, Razor01 said:

 

Not talking about moore's law here, talking about weakness and strengths of an uarch.  Intel has the same opportunities has AMD has when it comes to moore's law.

 

AMD didn't make CCX modules because it had issues with moore's law.  It made it because it didn't have the option of doing bigger dies, they could only do one design for all their CPU's top to bottom.

No I know your right.. but it took that desperation of AMD to start to move us that way. Intel would be staring at the atomic boundary wondering where they would go.. maybe now they wont.

[Blademaster91]

9 minutes ago, jde3 said:

That's why it's genius too. Scaling sideways is going to be something everyone is going to have to accept at some point so you can solve Moores law in software.

Wouldn't sideways scaling through the CCX add a bunch of latency? Threadripper has a software "gaming mode" that idles half the cores for some reason.

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, jde3 said:

If you compare them to Unix or Sun or Apple, they look like a joke.

Neither Sun or Apple have pushed anything innovative in the past 15 years.

 

3 minutes ago, jde3 said:

They make operating systems. They make super complicated software like kernels, file systems, schedulers.. where is the innovations here?

Irrelevant what they're known for. They've also pushed more innovative concepts and products than people realize.

[jde3]

9 hours ago, Drak3 said:

Neither Sun or Apple have pushed anything innovative in the past 15 years.

 

Irrelevant what they're known for. They've also pushed more innovative concepts and products than people realize.

Such as?

 

TCP? The the hierarchical file system model? The C programming language? The concept of pipes? Containers? Graphical user interface? no..? They bought DOS, and then ripped off later versions from IBM, they cloned windows from xerox and the mac, they bought office, they bought skype, they bought hotmail, they bought IE... I guess they made webtv, microsoft bob and clippy. For a company as large, there are few accomplishment here.

[Razor01]

3 minutes ago, jde3 said:

No I know your right.. but it took that desperation of AMD to start to move us that way. Intel would be staring at the atomic boundary wondering where they would go.. maybe now they wont.

 

Intel is in a different set of boundaries though.  When we see uarch changes, fundamental changes, is when the market needs to be shifted due to mostly monetary reasons.  Intel does have its mesh technology which they are using currently on their bigger chips, but their mesh technology is not like AMD's infinity fabric which introduced latency (or as much) into their chips.  You are correct we are getting damn close to moore's laws limits, and we see it even now in current CPU's, but we don't know which direction the semiconductor industry will take once that limit is hit hard.  Lot of unknowns at this point.

 

Going wide is a good way to avoid the hit but going wide means software changes.  And scaling doesn't go across the board on many applications when going wide.  Even with new software.  Better yes, but we don't always get a 1 to 1 increase and usually its far less than 1 to 1.  All we are doing is avoiding the inevitable at this point.

 

Its very hard to do a holistic approach when we are talking about two industries one with numerous vendors and one with 2 vendors all of them having the different goals, different capabilities when talking about the same problem lol.

[jde3]

@Drak3 Sometimes your asked logic questions in interviews, so for example lets say I ask you "Why are man hole covers round?"

 

There is Microsoft smart and there is Google smart. Microsoft smart is "so they don't fall in the hole" .. and they think they are clever. Yeah they have the right answer.. presumably but lets look deeper..

 

Google smart is on another level. Google smart the person would reply "They aren't all round.." - and the interviewer would ask "Why are the round ones round?" The Google smart answer would be "...uh.. because the round ones *are* round."

 

You see what I mean here? The person is actually smarter than the question.

[Notional]

3 minutes ago, Razor01 said:

Textures is not what I'm talking about, texture sizes only have to do with memory amounts, which are easy to change going from console to PC if needed, just render out new textures at higher resolutions as long as the base assets are saved.

 

"proper hardware support", do you know there is no way to select which cores are doing what over the CCX modules, how are programmers going to do that?  Individual split up threads and designated them to cores?  Not doable, without a system like NUMA in place specific for the the CCX modules which can hide that latency.  That is where we see these engines that can utilize more cores still fail with Ryzen.  2 problems here one is IPC/single thread performance, which its low can't even deny that, and the second problem is the latency issue introduced with the CCX modules, which can't be hinden right now since there is no programmer control over this.

Textures were often designed for the consoles first, so the assets were never better. 

 

Not sure why, but WD2 just used the cores on Ryzen in an odd way. Could also be a Windows 10 issue with the scheduler, who knows.

[Razor01]

Just now, The Benjamins said:

most of the productivity test ryzen was ahead, does that mean nothing. and 200w system power usage is fine for me, since I would be getting a faster CPU.

 

 

Yeah a put a true 6 core 12 thread Intel CPU to go against that Ryzen and see what happens, which coincidentally has similar power usage levels too at much higher frequencies.

 

As a consumer it looks good, because the price is right   From a technologist point of view, which is what we are  talking about, I think lol, not so good.

 

Where is that conlake video now lol, oh right that just didn't add up to what Coffee Lake was capable of doing with lower end motherboards......

[Razor01]

1 minute ago, Notional said:

Textures were often designed for the consoles first, so the assets were never better. 

 

Not sure why, but WD2 just used the cores on Ryzen in an odd way. Could also be a Windows 10 issue with the scheduler, who knows.

 

 

No they are not, dude I'm in the game industry lol.  I just render out the textures as needed for each targeted platform.  No extra work for me other than the computer doing its thing when I'm not around.

I design assets for 16k right now, even though games won't use those textures, easier to do that and scale down for the target systems than the other way around.  And its not much time difference designing, just rendering out which we have dedicated systems for that.

 

Nah Windows 10 scheduler works fine, AMD's initial statement on that, they back tracked, after MS stated no problems there.

[jde3]

Just now, Razor01 said:

 

 

No they are not, dude I'm in the game industry lol.  I just render out the textures as needed for each targeted platform.  not extra work for me other than the computer doing its thing when I'm not around.

 

Nah Windows 10 scheduler works fine, AMD's initial statement on that, they back tracked, after MS stated no problems there.

Hea cool. Wanted to ask someone, what compiler do you use?

[Notional]

39 minutes ago, Cookybiscuit said:

Call me when anything Ryzen outperforms anything 8400 or faster, only then can you claim that multicore>stronger cores.

I guess that explains the 52% performance delta between the slowest and fastest CPUs in a benchmark where the GPU is the same in each test.

If your games are CPU limited, then you are doing it wrong. Like I said, Ryzen 6cores and up suffers less from microstutter than any Intel 4 core CPU.

[Razor01]

Just now, jde3 said:

Hea cool. Wanted to ask someone, what compiler do you use?

 

Visual studio.

 

For consoles its different though.  Can't talk about that :), contracts and all.

[The Benjamins]

Just now, Razor01 said:

 

 

Yeah a put a true 6 core 12 thread Intel CPU to go against that Ryzen and see what happens, which coincidentally has similar power usage levels too at much higher frequencies.

 

As a consumer it looks good, because the price is right   From a technologist point of view, which is what we are  talking about, I think lol, not so good.

 

Where is that conlake video now lol, oh right that just didn't add up to what Coffee Lake was capable of doing with lower end motherboards......

that is a comparison of same price category CPU's.

 

and as per what this thread is covering the 2700x is showing a 10% SC uplift. I fail to see how these CPU's are bad as you describe them to be.

[jde3]

Just now, Razor01 said:

 

Visual studio.

 

For consoles its different though.  Can't talk about that :), contracts and all.

all good, I know the feeling. I'll assume its clang for ps4.

[Razor01]

4 minutes ago, The Benjamins said:

that is a comparison of same price category CPU's.

 

and as per what this thread is covering the 2700x is showing a 10% SC uplift. I fail to see how these CPU's are bad as you describe them to be.

 

Price is subjected to where a product sits in the marketplace, not vice versa.  AMD had to price CPU's in a certain price range otherwise they wouldn't have even gotten that 3% increase in market share over 1 year if they didn't.

[Dylanc1500]

4 minutes ago, Razor01 said:

 

Price is subjected to where a product sits in the marketplace, not vice versa.  AMD had to price CPU's in a certain price range otherwise they wouldn't have even gotten that 3% increase in market share over 1 year if they didn't.

Hey, if you don't mind me asking, how difficult is it for you guys to "port" games for different archs? I'm genuinely curious as I haven't personally dealt with the game side of things.

[WkdPaul]

Thread cleaned.

 

What is left can be respectfully argued and discussed, but antagonizing replies, trolling or being disingenuous isn't something we allow or tolerate.

 

Please keep this discussion clean, "troll-less" and on-topic.

Edited April 9, 2018 by wkdpaul

[cj09beira]

2 hours ago, Razor01 said:

 

 

Yeah a put a true 6 core 12 thread Intel CPU to go against that Ryzen and see what happens, which coincidentally has similar power usage levels too at much higher frequencies.

 

As a consumer it looks good, because the price is right   From a technologist point of view, which is what we are  talking about, I think lol, not so good.

 

Where is that conlake video now lol, oh right that just didn't add up to what Coffee Lake was capable of doing with lower end motherboards......

thats hugely thanks to the manufacturing advantage that intel has over gloFo 

[Razor01]

Just now, cj09beira said:

thats hugely thanks to the manufacturing advantage that intel has over gloFo 

 

partially, not to the point of 50% difference though......  That is uarch differences.  If we look at all ryzen parts vs Intel parts across all chips, in most cases their TDP's line up well with each other.  Actually power usage is quite different in different tests though.  Intel has its down falls too with AVX 512 but that is not something that is really used in most desktop applications.

[Razor01]

2 hours ago, Dylanc1500 said:

Hey, if you don't mind me asking, how difficult is it for you guys to "port" games for different archs? I'm genuinely curious as I haven't personally dealt with the game side of things.

It depends on the experience of the programming team.  Most PC ports are not done by the guys that make the game so that is a major hurdle when it comes to porting.  personally CPU side of things are much easier to port than the graphics code.  There isn't much to recoding to do when the CPU is concerned because both processors are X86.  Graphics though shader code for AMD and nV can be very different when performance is concerned.  Most porting teams don't have a good graphics lead.  Not to mention the engine is usually made by a 3rd party lol.  Tech support for coding is not given by console makers, at least with PC graphics cards nV and AMD will help to varying degrees.

[Blademaster91]

2 hours ago, The Benjamins said:

You have never used zip, rar, 7z files?

You have never made a home video?

Do you only run 1 application on your PC at a time?

Well from the techspot article you linked to, for those cases i5 8400 is still faster than the 1600 in Premier Pro 4K even when the 1600 is overclocked. I don't zip files that often but personally I'm not going to notice like 0.2sec difference in file compression.

[Cookybiscuit]

8 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

Well from the techspot article you linked to, for those cases i5 8400 is still faster than the 1600 in Premier Pro 4K even when the 1600 is overclocked. I don't zip files that often but personally I'm not going to notice like 0.2sec difference in file compression.

That. If someone actually cares about how long it takes to perform those tasks their budget vastly exceeds a 8400/1600 system.

[AresKrieger]

Is that 4.3 on air or.......because if its on water I'm honestly not impressed especially considering its a soldered ihs

 

Oh well they might get something done in the workstation market though it is looking unappealing atm to me.

[Bouzoo]

I have read through all 10 pages and I've no idea what I've read. You people are persistent, I'll give you that.