Playstation 5 leak/rumours

[Master Disaster]

So right off the bat let me be 100% transparent. The original source of this information is one of those insider pay to access websites, in this case a site called semi accurate and this data is locked behind a $1,000 paywall which means the original source is beyond my reach.

 

My source is popular tech news site The Know who have been given a lowdown of the data by other internet users, the data seems to be a mix of 'fact' (at least as factual as it's possible for a rumour to be) and conjecture. I will do my best to split the data from the speculation for you guys.

 

Lastly y'all might be thinking "why should I care about a load of rumours?", Well semi accurate have released this kind of data before and it's all been very much on the nose. These guys announced the X86 architecture of the XB1/PS4 years before anybody else knew anything, they announced the specs of the XB1 & PS4 a year before release, they announced the mid gen refresh a year before anybody else knew anything and they announced that the NX would be a handheld designed around a Tegra a year before anybody else had solid info. These guys are usually legit.

 

That said these are all rumours so the usual 'take with salt' warning applies. Now onto the juicy gossip.

 

First off a rumour that should surprise no one

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The Playstation 5 will be based around a custom designed 8 core Zen CPU and a custom designed Navi GPU.

Consoles usually always have some kind of custom AMD hardware, nothing to see here. Interesting but expected.

 

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Playstation 5 dev kits are already readily available and there are a lot of them out in the wild.

Again not all that surprising, dev kits are usually available years before hardware hits shelves, game development takes time.

 

The first bit of semi informed speculation

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The PS5 will go on general sale during the holiday season 2018.

This is based off the fact multiple sources (actually including AMD themselves) have stated that Sony are looking at a 2018 release window. The Know disagrees with this and I would also disagree with it, Christmas 2018 is too soon. The idea of Sony hitting E3, announcing the PS5 then saying "oh, by the way you can buy this thing in 5 months time" is just silly. Marketing need time to build hype.

 

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Many of the PS4 releases that are coming late 2018 or have been delayed to 2019 will be cross generation titles.

Makes complete sense tbh, it would allow the PS5 to launch with an INCREDIBLE library of titles released in the first few months including RDR2, Last Of Us 2, Days Gone and a few others. Also ties nicely into the next rumour...

 

Again this one is pure speculation

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The PS5 will be backwards compatible with PS4 Pro games.

Again makes total sense from a marketing point of view and architecturally it wouldn't be a difficult thing to achieve. I would agree with this one.

 

Lastly

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Sony are going to be pushing PSVR hard with the PS5 and have made specific design choices to optimise the system for VR.

Sadly this is likely to be true despite the fact VR has failed to make any significant impact in the home gaming market. PSVR is Sony's gimmick to sell systems. Let's just hope they don't sacrifice anything important in the name of VR support.

 

 

 

Thoughts please, I'm interested to hear what y'all think about the holidays 2018 rumour.

[Bouzoo]

6 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

The Playstation 5 will be based around a custom designed 8 core Zen CPU and a custom designed Navi GPU.

Not if they wanna stay competitive price wise I reckon.

 

I highly doubt it and don't see it happening soon. The life span of 4 is too short if you ask me, especially if you take Pro into the equation.  

[dionkoffie]

already? I don't see the need for a replacement of the PS4 Pro. 

[Froody129]

With that hardware I would expect a much longer life than the PS4. Like how when the PS3 released and it was a proper high power system.

 

For the people in the thread shooting it down, I believe VR is in its infancy and it really is the way forward. The Windows MR experience is very fluid and the high-res screen makes a HUGE difference. It’s not even like you need insane hardware to run VR anymore. I’m running a 680 and I’m very happy

[porina]

If backward compatibility is ensured, I think that would kinda lead the PS5 into a PS4 ProPro area, and help blur the lines between them, potentially extending the useful life of the PS4.

 

I feel VR is an expansion to gaming. As owner of PSVR and Vive, there is potential still to be tapped as the game developer experience and market share grows, more will happen. I fortunately got PSVR on sale, and like so many consumer gadgets, it is price that drives volume. It still needs to come down a bit more but I don't think it is doing badly as is. Room scale experience on the Vive is another level and you're paying for it. I'm not holding my breath for that on console level hardware.

[leadeater]

40 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

Consoles usually always have some kind of custom AMD hardware, nothing to see here. Interesting but expected.

Well I would say consoles usually have custom IBM hardware in them  Only one generation so far with AMD.

 

43 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

I'm interested to hear what y'all think about the holidays 2018 rumour.

Don't see it happening, too many hardware supply shortages right now and as you said marketing needs a chance to actually do something.

[Taf the Ghost]

PSVR has apparently sold rather well, so it's something Sony expects to keep around, I imagine.

 

As for the next gen chips, the first question on the timing comes down to process node. This'll be at TSMC again, almost assuredly, so is it going to be on the improved 16nm node or is this the first 7nm chip we see in the wild? TSMC does have a 10nm node in production right now, but that's a low power/mobile process. I'm not sure that's what they want for their console. If we expect a node shrink from the PS4 Pro, then this will be a 2019 release. If it's not, and it's on TSMC's 12nm process (16nm++), then it could be this year.

 

However, the fun questions are with the CPU Core changes. The GPU stuff is still iterated GCN, so that's not surprising. However, are they going to be normal Zen cores, or are they striped down for less General Compute and more focused on certain aspects to make gaming function better? Could be interesting to see what happens. The "Cat Cores" are this interesting CPU design that we know a bit about, but with more limited deep study. They already use some version of Infinity Fabric, so it makes a lot of sense to bring over a cut-down Zen for the consoles. (Also, this is Zen, Zen+ or Zen2's design branch?)

[porina]

2 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

PSVR has apparently sold rather well, so it's something Sony expects to keep around, I imagine.

It was the best selling VR system (excluding mobiles) last time I checked, probably helped in that it is the lowest cost and complexity entry point. If they can keep growing it, it might leave xbox in a difficult position.

 

2 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

However, the fun questions are with the CPU Core changes. The GPU stuff is still iterated GCN, so that's not surprising. However, are they going to be normal Zen cores, or are they striped down for less General Compute and more focused on certain aspects to make gaming function better? Could be interesting to see what happens. The "Cat Cores" are this interesting CPU design that we know a bit about, but with more limited deep study. They already use some version of Infinity Fabric, so it makes a lot of sense to bring over a cut-down Zen for the consoles. (Also, this is Zen, Zen+ or Zen2's design branch?)

I've not looked at the console generation stuff, but would this market be big enough for full custom silicon, or would some modified desktop/mobile parts suffice? Between Zen and Polaris, we already have parts in the wild for a long time at 14nm. If they end up with an 8 core CPU part, would that simply be Ryzen 1st or 2nd gen? No fab changes, maybe some minor config changes if it helps optimise cost. Dev kits could be done on Ryzen 1, with Ryzen 2 going into consumer hardware later on. Either way, bolt on the GPU in a separate package.

[MyName13]

Even 2019 would be too soon.Consoles with octa core CPUs and "console optimisations" might make todays hexa cores obsolete, not to mention gamers with quad core CPUs.

[leadeater]

19 minutes ago, MyName13 said:

Even 2019 would be too soon.Consoles with octa core CPUs and "console optimisations" might make todays hexa cores obsolete, not to mention gamers with quad core CPUs.

Good, stick it to the PCMR idiots lol.

[Bananasplit_00]

Nah that launch isn't going to happen, I'm guessing this is a few years away at least

[Trixanity]

I'd say holiday 2019 at the earliest considering the alleged specs. However I think 2020 is more likely given the various release cycles (including console timelines).

 

 

[suicidalfranco]

Welp there goes the "lasts for decades" argument, which is a good thing, finally, the industry can move forward at a faster pace without being held back by a 6, 8 or 10-year-old console for no apparent good reason.  Also given the cross-compatibility between previous gen and new gen, brings the wonderful world of user-defined graphics settings in game.

[Taf the Ghost]

2 hours ago, porina said:

It was the best selling VR system (excluding mobiles) last time I checked, probably helped in that it is the lowest cost and complexity entry point. If they can keep growing it, it might leave xbox in a difficult position.

 

I've not looked at the console generation stuff, but would this market be big enough for full custom silicon, or would some modified desktop/mobile parts suffice? Between Zen and Polaris, we already have parts in the wild for a long time at 14nm. If they end up with an 8 core CPU part, would that simply be Ryzen 1st or 2nd gen? No fab changes, maybe some minor config changes if it helps optimise cost. Dev kits could be done on Ryzen 1, with Ryzen 2 going into consumer hardware later on. Either way, bolt on the GPU in a separate package.

All of the current Zen core products are manufactured on the Global Foundaries 14nm processes. The PS5 and Xbox (Whatever comes next) will be made on TSMC's processes, so it means AMD has ported the entire design over to TSMC's process. (It's faster these days, but that's still a lot of work for some really highly paid CPU designers.) This means, especially with AMD's modular design approach, that they can potentially offer their customers different "flavors" of the Zen core on TSMC's process. 

 

The interesting question is if we'll see HBM2 show up on these products. If it wasn't for the really high cost, they'd make a lot of sense, given the much lower power draw per GB.

1 hour ago, MyName13 said:

Even 2019 would be too soon.Consoles with octa core CPUs and "console optimisations" might make todays hexa cores obsolete, not to mention gamers with quad core CPUs.

This entire generation is actually on octacore CPUs. They're in two primitive CCXs.

[asus killer]

if this is true, the original PS4 launched in late 2013, the Pro in late 2016, and now the PS5 in late 2018. These were the consoles you had to buy to have the best experience (slim doesn't count i guess). 3 consoles in 5 years, how is this any better than a PC? one less argument in favor of the consoles. "you don't have to be upgrading all the time"

[porina]

13 minutes ago, asus killer said:

if this is true, the original PS4 launched in late 2013, the Pro in late 2016, and now the PS5 in late 2018. These were the consoles you had to buy to have the best experience (slim doesn't count i guess). 3 consoles in 5 years, how is this any better than a PC? one less argument in favor of the consoles. "you don't have to be upgrading all the time"

If you're going on "best at the time", on the PC side excluding Titans you'd have at least 980 (2014), 980Ti, 1080, 1080Ti. Unless you really do have money to burn, you're not going to realistically do that. I personally went from 980 Ti to 1080 Ti, and even then, I think I upgrade more than most. If you got an early PS4, chances are you'll probably keep using it unless it fails. Some might upgrade to PS4 Pro, but it is not mandatory. PS5 as a new generation will be required after a while if you want to keep up with latest games.

[asus killer]

1 minute ago, porina said:

If you're going on "best at the time", on the PC side excluding Titans you'd have at least 980 (2014), 980Ti, 1080, 1080Ti. Unless you really do have money to burn, you're not going to realistically do that. I personally went from 980 Ti to 1080 Ti, and even then, I think I upgrade more than most. If you got an early PS4, chances are you'll probably keep using it unless it fails. Some might upgrade to PS4 Pro, but it is not mandatory. PS5 as a new generation will be required after a while if you want to keep up with latest games.

i see your point.

I guess i meant it in a different way, most updates in PC are also because of 1440p or 4K. I guess it also applied to PS4 Pro to play in 4K. If you compare it to PC and every single CPU or GPU release it was no comparison possible, but most people don't do that either (buy every single release)

[TheRandomness]

One bit of information from here leads to another little tidbit that I’d love to be true:

Navi this year instead of Vega refresh?

[Trixanity]

6 minutes ago, TheRandomness said:

One bit of information from here leads to another little tidbit that I’d love to be true:

Navi this year instead of Vega refresh?

I wish it was true and that we'd see a clean break in 2H 2019. Alas, I think Navi will arrive in 2H 2019 and will be completely underwhelming and that the clean break will come in very late 2020 if not pushed back to 2021. 

 

The GPU roadmap is not looking good and it seems they're floundering. Something spectacular needs to happen.

 

Imagine the horror of having to wait 3 more years for a competitive GPU.

[Misanthrope]

5 hours ago, dionkoffie said:

already? I don't see the need for a replacement of the PS4 Pro. 

Well unless Sony are complete idiots, since they're basically still on x86-64 architecture basically this might just be indicative of a more aggressive marketing push but hardware and software wise this would be another incremental update a.k.a. PS4 Pro²

[Whiskers]

5 hours ago, leadeater said:

Well I would say consoles usually have custom IBM hardware in them  Only one generation so far with AMD.

Only one complete generation so far with IBM too, though.

 

The original Xbox used a customised Pentium III, and the PS2's Emotion Engine was based on a MIPS R5900. Though the GameCube did use an IBM PowerPC chip.

[leadeater]

3 minutes ago, Whiskers said:

Only one complete generation so far with IBM too, though.

 

The original Xbox used a customised Pentium III, and the PS2's Emotion Engine was based on a MIPS R5900. Though the GameCube did use an IBM PowerPC chip.

Xbox 360 was IBM too, a fugly one lol. Wii and Wii U were also IBM but most important of all how could you forget about Pippin?!?!?

What the hell was Pippin

[Froody129]

5 hours ago, valdyrgramr said:

Isn't the new lifespan for a console 8 years before a new one?  Even if they did leak something it probably won't come out for at least 3 years.  You also have to conider the NAND and DRAM shortages.  It wouldn't really profitable to launch a new console right now.

The PS3 lasted so long because when it released it was a really high-end system, even compared to decent PCs at the time. The PS4 was already outdated on release.

 

They will most likely have had orders for these consoles for a long time already so they shouldn't be too affected by the pricing currently. Also unlike PC, Sony charges a crap load for PS Plus and they take a cut of all game sales that goes directly back to them (the hardware producers). On PC the money goes to Steam, and not towards hardware manufacturers

[Whiskers]

Just now, leadeater said:

Xbox 360 was IBM too, a fugly one lol. Wii and Wii U were also IBM but most important of all how could you forget about Pippin?!?!?

 

Yeah, the Wii was pretty much just an upgraded GameCube. And the Wii U was also just an upgraded Wii on the CPU front... and was also an odd one because it was sort of a half-generation console? It launched way too late into the 360 / PS3 gen to compare to them, but much too early (and far too weak) to compare with the PS4 and XOne.

 

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What the hell was Pippin

One of the greatest successes in Apple's history.

 

Oh, right.

[Dylanc1500]

6 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Xbox 360 was IBM too, a fugly one lol. Wii and Wii U were also IBM but most important of all how could you forget about Pippin?!?!?

What the hell was Pippin

IBM should make a Power console themselves. I'd say they have enough experience they could. I get the feeling though that it'd look a bit PS2ish.

 

Pippin makes me think of a penguin. Have no idea why, just always has.