Bank of England hints at Bitcoin crackdown

[Apepa]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/mar/02/bitcoin-faces-regulatory-crackdown-bank-england-warns

 

Quote

Authorities are rightly concerned that given their inefficiency and anonymity, one of the main reasons for their use is to shield illicit activities. This cannot be condoned. Anarchy may reign on the dark web, but in the UK it’s just a song that your parents used to listen to,”

He has a point, but I think the big question for most of us is whether the looming threat of regulation might cause Crypto prices to fall so the GPU market can get back to normal.

 

He also mentioned the cost of mining, which is also a pretty interesting topic, as governments around the world will have to take into account the toll mining takes on our energy infrastructure.

[NoRomanBatmansAllowed]

 

[Trik'Stari]

Again I am torn between wanting GPU prices to come back down, and wanting governments and their taxes to go fuck themselves.

 

I get taxes are necessary, but what we pay is not worth what we get in return. At least in the US. I can't speak for the UK I guess.

 

Any brits care to weigh in on how they feel about what they pay in taxes vs. how much benefit they get?

[porina]

They are part right in some aspects, but in others are either negligent or otherwise intentionally trying to spread FUD. They're welcome to try a game of whack-a-mole and they will fail.

 

In the UK crypto is already taxed within the same rules governing other investments, either as capital gains or income depending on your personal circumstance and what you do with it. If they want to put some additional tax on that, we'll have to wait and see.

 

I don't know about all exchanges, but taking Coinbase as an example, before you can do anything useful you have to send them ID. It could be faked, for sure, but they are taking some steps to help cover them from claims of money laundering.

 

The volatility of crypto is a concern, and could leave it more open than more established markets from manipulation. Big enough players could pump and dump for example.

 

12 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

Any brits care to weigh in on how they feel about what they pay in taxes vs. how much benefit they get?

That's a difficult one and could take a thread in itself. Suffice to say, like most I'd rather pay less tax, but the things it pays for, I wouldn't necessarily want to pay for separately either. 

[Blademaster91]

14 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

Again I am torn between wanting GPU prices to come back down, and wanting governments and their taxes to go fuck themselves.

I get taxes are necessary, but what we pay is not worth what we get in return. At least in the US. I can't speak for the UK I guess.

Any brits care to weigh in on how they feel about what they pay in taxes vs. how much benefit they get?

I would rather GPU prices return to normal, though it's not just about taxes,according to the article investors and analysts are fearing bitcoin could cause financial instability to actual currencies.

[divito]

14 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

Again I am torn between wanting GPU prices to come back down, and wanting governments and their taxes to go fuck themselves.

 

I get taxes are necessary, but what we pay is not worth what we get in return. At least in the US.

It's because your tax rate is lower, therefore less services and subsidies that you can utilize/notice. Personally, I abhor taxes going down, because that just means the services that I do use that are currently free, or that are subsidized will mean I'm paying more out of pocket than the small percentage it works out to be through income tax. 

As for the OP, it will come to pass in most places. Whether they want a piece of the action, or its part of dealing with shady people, regulation of some form will arrive in a lot of places if crypto maintains its market.

[Jimkirk363]

39 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

Again I am torn between wanting GPU prices to come back down, and wanting governments and their taxes to go fuck themselves.

 

I get taxes are necessary, but what we pay is not worth what we get in return. At least in the US. I can't speak for the UK I guess.

 

Any brits care to weigh in on how they feel about what they pay in taxes vs. how much benefit they get?

The NHS alone is worth it for what we pay, i know a lot of people complain about the NHS and Taxes but last year i had sepsis twice + a Psudocyst exploded on my pancreas ripping it in 2 and so i almost died twice, i was hospitilised for almost 5 and a half months between April and December and the NHS were a miracle for me and saved my life twice and i wont have a bad word said against them.

[Canada EH]

Toronto Dominion bank is cranking down on cryptocurrency as well

http://www.rttnews.com/2866378/canada-s-td-bank-also-bans-use-of-credit-cards-to-buy-cryptocurrency.aspx

 

Just do an ATM credit card cash advance!

 

First thought, was hockey legend Theron Fluery's cocaine habit at an American strip club and charging $60K to a "car wash"

 

 

[Apepa]

2 hours ago, Trik'Stari said:

Any brits care to weigh in on how they feel about what they pay in taxes vs. how much benefit they get?

Yeah, I don't really want to bog this thread down with this.

[Apepa]

3 hours ago, porina said:

The volatility of crypto is a concern, and could leave it more open than more established markets from manipulation. Big enough players could pump and dump for example.

It's even bigger than that. Crypto is essentially a way of converting electricity directly into money. Should Crypto become more widely used, energy rich countries like Russia, Iran and Saudi Arabia would essentially become immune to sanctions and western attempts at energy independence, as they would no longer need to export energy to other countries in order to profit.

 

Instead of worrying about building gas pipelines, Russia could just build more power plants and use them to feed warehouses full of ASICs.

 

And that's without considering the additional burden that mining places on our energy infrastructure.

[mr moose]

I think this just illustrates how complex economies are and why the common misconceptions many people have about  crypto-currencies are not well thought out.

[Apepa]

2 hours ago, mr moose said:

I think this just illustrates how complex economies are and why the common misconceptions many people have about  crypto-currencies are not well thought out.

What sort of misconceptions?

[mr moose]

29 minutes ago, Apepa said:

What sort of misconceptions?

That crypto will end government caused excessive high inflation rates,  that it will remain an unregulated and the power will be in the hands of the people.  That it has had no effect on digital crime.  That governments and banks are scared of it.   Just the usual shit you hear people spout when they feel their precious crypto's are being unfairly treated.  EDIT: and I'll add that some people think it shouldn't be taxed because it's not the same as earning real money through a real job.  or some shit like that.

 

[mr moose]

8 minutes ago, huilun02 said:

They gonna crack down by taxing miners or something. Governments always after the $$ and not really solving anything

what? you mean taxing people who generate an income from an activity is greed and not to cover the cost of running a country?

[mr moose]

6 minutes ago, huilun02 said:

They say that cryptocurrency could be used for illegal activities, implying that total elimination is the solution. And what they do is to tax it. The result? Cryptocurrencies are now formally legal. Well done

 

Crypto currency is being used for illegal activities, there is no "could" about it.  Also I don't know where you got the idea they are implying elimination as the solution.  Taxing a product that generates earnings is normal.  Not sure why you think this makes something that is not technically illegal now legal.

[Apepa]

8 minutes ago, mr moose said:

That crypto will end government caused excessive high inflation rates,  that it will remain an unregulated and the power will be in the hands of the people.  That it has had no effect on digital crime.  That governments and banks are scared of it.   Just the usual shit you hear people spout when they feel their precious crypto's are being unfairly treated. 

 

The idea that it puts power in the hands of the people was retarded from day one anyway. And the inflation idea was dashed the minute the first AltCoins hit the market, and 10,000 years of hard money could have told us that would happen anyway.

 

And at present, it's in this weird meta state of being to paper money what paper money once was to commodity money.

[mr moose]

2 minutes ago, Apepa said:

The idea that it puts power in the hands of the people was retarded from day one anyway. And the inflation idea was dashed the minute the first AltCoins hit the market, and 10,000 years of hard money could have told us that would happen anyway.

 

And at present, it's in this weird meta state of being to paper money what paper money once was to commodity money.

The issue being people still believe it even after being told that it will be no different than the introduction of the Euro dollar.  Just another currency that falls into line with all the usual conditions of the economy.

[Apepa]

35 minutes ago, huilun02 said:

They say that cryptocurrency could be used for illegal activities, implying that total elimination is the solution. And what they do is to tax it. The result? Cryptocurrencies are now formally legal. Well done

Which they should be doing, as mining has an environmental cost (electricity generation, hardware disposal), and that's without considering the burden on energy infrastructure, prices and even security I mentioned above.

 

But really, it needs to be banned.

[Apepa]

15 minutes ago, mr moose said:

The issue being people still believe it even after being told that it will be no different than the introduction of the Euro dollar.  Just another currency that falls into line with all the usual conditions of the economy.

The Euro should serve as a warning. Greece would be in a much better position today if they had control over their own monetary policy.

[Master Disaster]

12 minutes ago, Apepa said:

The Euro should serve as a warning. Greece would be in a much better position today if they had control over their own monetary policy.

Greece would be in a much better position within the Euro economy if they spent their money paying their way and investing in their countries infrastructure instead of the high ranking officials living like kings while their bills go unpaid, the countries roads crumble and the general populace live on the poverty line.

 

The only thing Greece shows if that the EU are to quick to let countries join, it was blatently obvious that Greece only wanted in so they could claim EU aid and yet they still let them in.

[Monkey Dust]

8 hours ago, Trik'Stari said:

Again I am torn between wanting GPU prices to come back down, and wanting governments and their taxes to go fuck themselves.

 

I get taxes are necessary, but what we pay is not worth what we get in return. At least in the US. I can't speak for the UK I guess.

 

Any brits care to weigh in on how they feel about what they pay in taxes vs. how much benefit they get?

I'd say broadly our taxes represent value for money. It covers lots of things we probably never give a thought to, ensuring food we buy is safe to eat, an independent judiciary, negotiation of terms with foreign countries to enable greater trade etc... In addition to the big ticket items such as health service, education, military, police, fire service, prison service and social care. It represents both a pooling of risk, and reduction in costs to everyone through economies of scale. Obviously not all of it is spent wisely, but as someone who in the accounts department of a private company, I know that the private sector is far from immune to wasting money.

 

18 minutes ago, Apepa said:

Which they should be doing, as mining has an environmental cost (electricity generation, hardware disposal), and that's without considering the burden on energy infrastructure, prices and even security I mentioned above.

 

But really, it needs to be banned.

Yes at a time when we are trying to reduce energy consumption, and by extension CO2 emissions, cryptomining is deeply unhelpful.

 

 

[Apepa]

37 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

high ranking officials living like kings while their bills go unpaid, the countries roads crumble and the general populace live on the poverty line.

That's the UK.

39 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

The only thing Greece shows if that the EU are to quick to let countries join, it was blatently obvious that Greece only wanted in so they could claim EU aid and yet they still let them in.

And also that being unable to control your monetary policy makes it much more difficult to recover from a financial disaster. If Greece had their own money they could accelerate the debt repayment by printing more money. Meanwhile, the increase in the money supply would devalue the currency, making exports and tourism cheaper and helping economic growth.

 

What you said also applies to every country in the EU that wasn't rich when it joined. This is an intentional policy and has helped countries like Greece and Spain avoid falling back into civil war.

[Master Disaster]

29 minutes ago, Apepa said:

That's the UK.

^ I can't disagree with that

 

And also that being unable to control your monetary policy makes it much more difficult to recover from a financial disaster. If Greece had their own money they could accelerate the debt repayment by printing more money. Meanwhile, the increase in the money supply would devalue the currency, making exports and tourism cheaper and helping economic growth.

 

What you said also applies to every country in the EU that wasn't rich when it joined. This is an intentional policy and has helped countries like Greece and Spain avoid falling back into civil war.

You do understand how inflation works, right? A country can't "just print more money to solve debt", a perfect example of why is the frankly stupidly high inflation rates in Zimbabwe.

 

In Zimbabwe notes were almost worthless because inflation was so high by the time notes got into the hands of citizens they were worth nothing, wages were paid by the hour because the amount you earn changed so much over the course of a working day, for those who can afford to shop at "supermarkets" in the country food wasn't priced on the shelves and instead cashier's would have to work out its cost on a per customer basis.

 

The entire monetary value of fiat currency depends on a certain level of exclusivity, the more of the currency you print the less value is attached to it (like any product really) and if the government "just print more" then the world banks confidence in the currency declines, its value drops and inflation takes over eventually leading to a situation like Zimbabwe where the value of one Zimbabwe note could literally change by the hour.

 

To be clear, Zimbabwe was an extreme example and there were other factors involved in Zimbabwes silly inflation rates but a corrupt government printing unlimited money to fund their own lifestyle and a war was a huge part of the issue.

 

Also I'm not 100% sure but I think I remember seeing that Zimbabwe switched to the US Dollar within the last 10 or so years to try and fix the hyperinflation issues.

[mr moose]

11 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

You do understand how inflation works, right? A country can't "just print more money to solve debt", a perfect example of why is the frankly stupidly high inflation rates in Zimbabwe.

 

In Zimbabwe notes were almost worthless because inflation was so high by the time notes got into the hands of citizens they were worth nothing, wages were paid by the hour because the amount you earn changed so much over the course of a working day, for those who can afford to shop at "supermarkets" in the country food wasn't priced on the shelves and instead cashier's would have to work out its cost on a per customer basis.

 

The entire monetary value of fiat currency depends on a certain level of exclusivity, the more of the currency you print the less value is attached to it (like any product really) and if the government "just print more" then the world banks confidence in the currency declines, its value drops and inflation takes over eventually leading to a situation like Zimbabwe where the value of one Zimbabwe note could literally change by the hour.

 

To be clear, Zimbabwe was an extreme example and there were other factors involved in Zimbabwes silly inflation rates but a corrupt government printing unlimited money to fund their own lifestyle was a huge part of the issue.

 

Also I'm not 100% sure but I think I remember seeing that Zimbabwe switched to the US Dollar within the last 10 or so years to try and fix the hyperinflation issues.

If I read apepa s post right you are saying the same thing.  His suggestion was printing money would devalue their currency which in turn would increase exports and tourism ( a short fix tot he financial hole they were in).  But they couldn't do that because they can't just print more euros. 

 

Interestingly enough printing more money is something many governments consider in order to regulate their economies. It has some inherent dangers so it isn't usually the first port of call, but occasional it has it's place.

[Master Disaster]

1 minute ago, mr moose said:

If I read apepa s post right you are saying the same thing.  His suggestion was printing money would devalue their currency which in turn would increase exports and tourism ( a short fix tot he financial hole they were in).  But they couldn't do that because they can't just print more euros. 

 

Interestingly enough printing more money is something many governments consider in order to regulate their economies. It has some inherent dangers so it isn't usually the first port of call, but occasional it has it's place.

Oh I got that and I'm not really disagreeing tbh, I'm just saying that printing more money to solve a problem leads to even bigger problems for the population of the country.

 

Tourists are not going to go anywhere near your country if inflation is too high and meanwhile the citizens continue to get poorer and poorer as the value of their fiat decrease meaning huge amounts of unemployment which in turn effects the amount of goods available for export plus businesses are constantly negotiating prices as the value of the goods decreases.

 

Is it nice to have it as an option? Sure I guess but is it a solution to debt problems? IMO no, in the ends it's only going to increase debt by hurting GDP.