Asus believes Coffee Lake should work on Z270

[GDRRiley]

On 10/20/2017 at 11:31 AM, MageTank said:

I also made a prediction that ASRock would totally circumvent this if they can, like they always do. I am still waiting for that one to come true.

they have before, like on skylake with external clock generators and I so want them to do it again. 

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, GDRRiley said:

we know that intel had these CPUS working on z270 in testing before it was disabled with microcode. 

The problem is there are more chipsets than the Z series, sure we are all gamers here so most likely run Z series but as has been pointed out before there are other ones which might not have worked. Intel could have made Z270 have exclusive CL support on 200 series chipsets but RIP anyone that isn't running Z270.

[GDRRiley]

20 minutes ago, leadeater said:

The problem is there are more chipsets than the Z series, sure we are all gamers here so most likely run Z series but as has been pointed out before there are other ones which might not have worked. Intel could have made Z270 have exclusive CL support on 200 series chipsets but RIP anyone that isn't running Z270.

well do most people who buy PCs upgrade them no. so I don't see it as being as of a issues. I would be ok if it only worked on z170/270, and thats it. most people will other configurations aren't that likely to do a cpu swap. 

[strat guy]

Let's just hope games remain largely GPU dependant, and that developers don't start programming stuff that would make quad core CPUs unable to keep up. At least for the next 4 to 5 years.

[BubblyCharizard]

On ‎2017‎-‎10‎-‎20 at 2:15 PM, TheLaserCucumber said:

I‘m going to say that all Z170 and Z270 boards are capable of delivering the bit more power the extra 2 Cores need.

probably, but then people wouls start trying to get h110 or b250 boards to work via BIOS hacks, and have poor stability, then blame intel for a badly designed CPU

[mr moose]

39 minutes ago, strat guy said:

Let's just hope games remain largely GPU dependant, and that developers don't start programming stuff that would make quad core CPUs unable to keep up. At least for the next 4 to 5 years.

Yep, although I think at worst those who purchased 4c no HT in the last year or two might find themselves right on the cusp of needing an upgrade sooner than they would like, history says we should be fine for a little while yet.

[Dabombinable]

Is it me or are people forgetting the way LGA775 was handled across at the very least 2 different power delivery specifications, and across 3 different manufacturing nodes? The boards may have been primitive compared to current ones, but manufacturers would enable forwards and backwards compatibility if the board could support it without Intel having a say in things.

I hope the manufacturers ignore Intel and implement forwards compatibility as they have in the past when boards have been more than capable of supporting a CPU or feature (such as overclocking via the multiplier on some H87 and H97 boards)

[thorhammerz]

1 minute ago, Dabombinable said:

I hope the manufacturers ignore Intel

Compatibility is locked at the management engine (ME) level, so the motherboard manufacturers do not have much leeway (if any) to do so .

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, strat guy said:

Let's just hope games remain largely GPU dependant, and that developers don't start programming stuff that would make quad core CPUs unable to keep up. At least for the next 4 to 5 years.

No thanks, I've been 6+ cores since i7-970. Bring on the threads revolution! 

 

But really what should happen is dynamical thread scaling (where possible) so you can use more if you can more but don't get heavily penalized if you don't, how effectively that can be done does depend a lot on the type of game though. For example Galactic Civilizations 3 can already do this, turn based strategy game so is basically the best case possible.

[Dabombinable]

6 minutes ago, thorhammerz said:

Compatibility is locked at the management engine (ME) level, so the motherboard manufacturers do not have much leeway (if any) to do so .

So as well as the IME being a security hole, its also used to ream consumers? Another reason to go with what ever is beyond Ryzen (when my 4790K finally doesn't cut it anymore in games).

[mr moose]

48 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

Is it me or are people forgetting the way LGA775 was handled across at the very least 2 different power delivery specifications, and across 3 different manufacturing nodes? The boards may have been primitive compared to current ones, but manufacturers would enable forwards and backwards compatibility if the board could support it without Intel having a say in things.

I hope the manufacturers ignore Intel and implement forwards compatibility as they have in the past when boards have been more than capable of supporting a CPU or feature (such as overclocking via the multiplier on some H87 and H97 boards)

I've been wondering that recently too, with the average CL consuming half the watts of Prescott.  Primitive probably has little to do with it, I'd say it would have more to do with the number of transistors and package density. 

 

EDIT: although just reading some torture tests the PC does appear to go up fast and match if not exceed the average Prescott numbers.

[MyName13]

2 hours ago, strat guy said:

Let's just hope games remain largely GPU dependant, and that developers don't start programming stuff that would make quad core CPUs unable to keep up. At least for the next 4 to 5 years.

You say this in age where dual cores are still enough and where even quad cores are far more powerful than console CPUs.

[Dabombinable]

2 hours ago, mr moose said:

I've been wondering that recently too, with the average CL consuming half the watts of Prescott.  Primitive probably has little to do with it, I'd say it would have more to do with the number of transistors and package density. 

 

EDIT: although just reading some torture tests the PC does appear to go up fast and match if not exceed the average Prescott numbers.

Considering I had my Pentium 4 540J used for years inside a reference 3 phase Intel motherboard (the kind with the mosfets sticking up+without a heatsink-the combo is from an ex office reception PC), there really is no reason for the majority of Z170 and Z270 boards to not be allowed to run CL CPU. Then again, Intel really are assholes when it comes to being even remotely consumer friendly-even when their market share is in jeopardy.

[MyName13]

27 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

Considering I had my Pentium 4 540J used for years inside a reference 3 phase Intel motherboard (the kind with the mosfets sticking up+without a heatsink-the combo is from an ex office reception PC), there really is no reason for the majority of Z170 and Z270 boards to not be allowed to run CL CPU. Then again, Intel really are assholes when it comes to being even remotely consumer friendly-even when their market share is in jeopardy.

Their market share is in jeopardy?Wow...By the way instead of complaining about Z170/Z270 compatibility consumers could have simply bought AMD's CPUs.

[leadeater]

25 minutes ago, MyName13 said:

Their market share is in jeopardy?Wow...By the way instead of complaining about Z170/Z270 compatibility consumers could have simply bought AMD's CPUs.

Well to be fair you wouldn't have wanted to back when Z170 was new, or even when Z270 came out. Z270 was Q1 2017 and Ryzen was Q2 2017 so you'd have to be a brave sole to bank on AMD at that time. 

[MyName13]

6 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Well to be fair you wouldn't have wanted to back when Z170 was new, or even when Z270 came out. Z270 was Q1 2017 and Ryzen was Q2 2017 so you'd have to be a brave sole to bank on AMD at that time. 

I'm trying to point out that AMD had nothing but FX CPUs when z170 and z270 came out and therefore they have no excuse to complain.

[Dabombinable]

1 hour ago, MyName13 said:

Their market share is in jeopardy?Wow...By the way instead of complaining about Z170/Z270 compatibility consumers could have simply bought AMD's CPUs.

It is due to the pricing difference between Intel and AMD (which isn't helped by Intel's insistence that all consumer CPU need an iGPU). And buying a new CPU on its own would be cheaper than a new board+cpu+cooler (if you were overclocking and couldn't get an AM4 mounting kit for your cooler). Plus there is the fact that Intel has gone out of their way to prevent compatibility.

[SomeCallMeJo]

I mean yeah some super high end Z270 motherboards could work but how many of the cheap ones, are considered not useable with CoffeeLake and how do you regulate that.

[strat guy]

8 hours ago, leadeater said:

No thanks, I've been 6+ cores since i7-970. Bring on the threads revolution! 

 

But really what should happen is dynamical thread scaling (where possible) so you can use more if you can more but don't get heavily penalized if you don't, how effectively that can be done does depend a lot on the type of game though. For example Galactic Civilizations 3 can already do this, turn based strategy game so is basically the best case possible.

The plebs have breached the gates, master. They're bringing more cores, more threads, more everything. The quads will be wiped out.

 

7 hours ago, MyName13 said:

You say this in age where dual cores are still enough and where even quad cores are far more powerful than console CPUs.

Really, dual cores can handle modern AAA titles like GTA V etc ?

[strat guy]

HT/SMT do matter though, which is why the 2600k is still kicking ass while the 2500k has aged quite a bit more, though still a decent chip.

[NvidiaIntelAMDLoveTriangle]

8 hours ago, Dabombinable said:

Is it me or are people forgetting the way LGA775 was handled across at the very least 2 different power delivery specifications, and across 3 different manufacturing nodes? The boards may have been primitive compared to current ones, but manufacturers would enable forwards and backwards compatibility if the board could support it without Intel having a say in things.

I hope the manufacturers ignore Intel and implement forwards compatibility as they have in the past when boards have been more than capable of supporting a CPU or feature (such as overclocking via the multiplier on some H87 and H97 boards)

Thing is since then Intel has gotten more and more aggressive when it comes doing things their way and only theirs.

7 minutes ago, SomeCallMeJo said:

I mean yeah some super high end Z270 motherboards could work but how many of the cheap ones, are considered not useable with CoffeeLake and how do you regulate that.

I'm willing to bet all of them. Intel motherboards, at least those from Gigabyte, Asus, MSI, etc. have been overbuild.

AMD's motherboards on the other hand, well those have been poorly build since the original Athlon days.

 

So I don't buy Intel's excuse and Linus's covering for Intel when it comes to the old chipset wasn't properly build to deliver the necessary power to Covfefe.

[pas008]

2 minutes ago, NvidiaIntelAMDLoveTriangle said:

Thing is since then Intel has gotten more and more aggressive when it comes doing things their way and only theirs.

I'm willing to bet all of them. Intel motherboards, at least those from Gigabyte, Asus, MSI, etc. have been overbuild.

AMD's motherboards on the other hand, well those have been poorly build since the original Athlon days.

 

So I don't buy Intel's excuse and Linus's covering for Intel when it comes to the old chipset wasn't properly build to deliver the necessary power to Covfefe.

hmm i'm not sure about that,

I have rma'd more mobos than anything else in last decade

I feel the quality is shit now days, its like they are copy and pasting their designs for each socket and adding useless shit like headphone amp or rgb now or whatever trend is going on atm

[MyName13]

26 minutes ago, strat guy said:

 

 

Really, dual cores can handle modern AAA titles like GTA V etc ?

Yes, but I wouldn't call GTA v modern since it was primarily made for ancient consoles (PS3 and 360).

[strat guy]

7 hours ago, MyName13 said:

You say this in age where dual cores are still enough and where even quad cores are far more powerful than console CPUs.

About the console bit, not only do game devs have a very specific set of hardware with zero variables thrown in to work with and design their product around, they're also still shooting for 30 fps etc a lot of the times.

 

One of these big techtubers (jayz?) did a vid on how cards have aged, and how a 1050ti or something beats the 780(ti?).. live fast, die young, that's just how it is with GPUs, we don't want that hapening with CPUs.

 

So even though this rushed paper launch was just the Ryzen effect/whip, it is a step up for the mainstream "gaming" processors, devs will eventually start making use of the extra horsepower to deliver a better product, hopefully not till another 4 or 5 years though  

[MyName13]

41 minutes ago, strat guy said:

About the console bit, not only do game devs have a very specific set of hardware with zero variables thrown in to work with and design their product around, they're also still shooting for 30 fps etc a lot of the times.

 

One of these big techtubers (jayz?) did a vid on how cards have aged, and how a 1050ti or something beats the 780(ti?).. live fast, die young, that's just how it is with GPUs, we don't want that hapening with CPUs.

 

So even though this rushed paper launch was just the Ryzen effect/whip, it is a step up for the mainstream "gaming" processors, devs will eventually start making use of the extra horsepower to deliver a better product, hopefully not till another 4 or 5 years though  

Until we get new consoles we won't see any improvements, it's ridiculous how Destiny 2 and The evil within 2 recommend r5 1600 but still work on a dual core.Even though console GPUs don't change every 2 years, PC ports keep requiring more powerful GPUs.