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Asus believes Coffee Lake should work on Z270

NumLock21
11 hours ago, Ezilkannan said:

Rest assured devs won't be optimizing for multiple cores for a long time. Those with 4 core cpus can keep using for a long time before they feel the pinch to get more cores just for gaming.

Let's hope so. I'm all for the thread revolution though as someone else had said earlier in this thread.

 

And as someone had also pointed out earlier, it'll probably be driven by what direction console CPUs take in their next iteration, we're all fecked if Sony and MS go "cheap" 8 core Ryzens or something but probably not, they'll need to keep costs down under $500 for the US market and that includes both the CPU and GPU.

 

We'll see what happens.

 

10 hours ago, Jamiec1130 said:

I just upgraded to a quad core Sandy Bridge i5. Dual cores are still pretty capable (even my Core 2 Duos). 

Sandy (and Ivy bridge too ?), the last of the soldered Intel chips. I just 'retired' a 2500K build but am keeping it for gaming and other stuff in a different location. Back in late 2011 I chose the Sandy over the Ivy because they stayed cooler, even though it was limiting any graphics cards to PCIe 2.0.

 

The 2500k has started to show it's age though, if only in a very select few titles but still... In fact it has aged pretty big league compared to the 2600k, HT/SMT does make a difference.

 

Personally I couldn't care less, still on a 1080p/60hz setup, and as long as you can do those with close to 'max settings' I'm ok, CD Prokect Red better not mess up with system requirements and keep 2077 GPU centered just like The Witcher, or someone gets shot, I swear. :P

 

 

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5 hours ago, NumLock21 said:

X99 5820K introduced 6 cores, 3 years ago. If one needs a 6 core, they would have went with that, instead of a quad core 6700K or 7700K.  Z370 is for those that have like a 5+ year old machine. Those with z270, who have money to waste, no one is stopping them from getting one too. 

I thought the enthusiast lineup had 6 core CPUs before that.

Anyway, my point was that I can see people that don't have the budget for the enthusiast lineup wanting/benefiting from more cores, and it seems silly for Intel to artificially block off compatibility.

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45 minutes ago, Cinnabar Sonar said:

I thought the enthusiast lineup had 6 core CPUs before that.

Anyway, my point was that I can see people that don't have the budget for the enthusiast lineup wanting/benefiting from more cores, and it seems silly for Intel to artificially block off compatibility.

Intel have been happy to lose those customers to AMD.   As we can see throughout the last 7 years, Intel haven't needed to push more cores to be competitive against AMD. Traditionally the people who really needed more cores were not budget enthusiasts.   If there was money to be made from such a demand you can bet your ass Intel would be there.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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4 hours ago, Cinnabar Sonar said:

I thought the enthusiast lineup had 6 core CPUs before that.

Anyway, my point was that I can see people that don't have the budget for the enthusiast lineup wanting/benefiting from more cores, and it seems silly for Intel to artificially block off compatibility.

The 980x but it was out of reach for many. 5820K was more within reach and was the same price as a 6700K. Price difference was $100 or even less between the 2 platforms. I recall configuring both and the difference was 1 dollar. Maybe that was z97 vs z170.

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5 hours ago, mr moose said:

Intel have been happy to lose those customers to AMD.   As we can see throughout the last 7 years, Intel haven't needed to push more cores to be competitive against AMD. Traditionally the people who really needed more cores were not budget enthusiasts.   If there was money to be made from such a demand you can bet your ass Intel would be there.

Traditionally, yes.  However, with the popularity of streaming, and Ryzen being competitive, we might see a change.

1 hour ago, NumLock21 said:

The 980x but it was out of reach for many. 5820K was more within reach and was the same price as a 6700K. Price difference was $100 or even less between the 2 platforms. I recall configuring both and the difference was 1 dollar. Maybe that was z97 vs z170.

I never price compared the two.

The mainstream platform hasn't seen an increase in cores (at least on Intel's side) for a while, and I would imagine that many who are on Skylake/Kaby Lake would like to upgrade.

Perhaps I am wrong in that assumption?

 

Nevertheless, if Intel doesn't have a good reason to block backwards compatibility with Coffee Lake and z270, I would consider it a pretty dumb move.

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57 minutes ago, Cinnabar Sonar said:

Traditionally, yes.  However, with the popularity of streaming, and Ryzen being competitive, we might see a change.

I never price compared the two.

The mainstream platform hasn't seen an increase in cores (at least on Intel's side) for a while, and I would imagine that many who are on Skylake/Kaby Lake would like to upgrade.

Perhaps I am wrong in that assumption?

 

Nevertheless, if Intel doesn't have a good reason to block backwards compatibility with Coffee Lake and z270, I would consider it a pretty dumb move.

Only those who likes to waste money, will want to upgrade from a Skylake or Kabylake.

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56 minutes ago, Cinnabar Sonar said:

Nevertheless, if Intel doesn't have a good reason to block backwards compatibility

As Linus hinted at the wan show from 1 week ago Intel had a reason to this and it wasn't just for the sake of being anti consumer. Because if it were just for maximizing profits and minimizing effort, why not release it for current motherboards and maximize the target audience without doing the work and releasing a new chipset.

 

And if it were really just a panic move against ryzen it would also be way easier to release it on 200 series chipsets.

 

 

My theroy is that it just doesnt work well with the 270 boards and/or they have planned something for the 370 chipset. 

 

Or Intel really likes designing chipsets and just released it for fun and giggles

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3 minutes ago, Medicate said:

As Linus hinted at the wan show from 1 week ago Intel had a reason to this and it wasn't just for the sake of being anti consumer. Because if it were just for maximizing profits and minimizing effort, why not release it for current motherboards and maximize the target audience without doing the work and releasing a new chipset.

Do we know whether or not Intel profits off of chipsets?  Like making a certain percentage off of a motherboard sale with their chipset?

 

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59 minutes ago, Cinnabar Sonar said:

Do we know whether or not Intel profits off of chipsets?  Like making a certain percentage off of a motherboard sale with their chipset?

 

This is an older article, but that should give you an idea of how much Intel charges board-makers (in the ballpark of a flat $5-50 fee depending on the chipset). It does add up, but pales in comparison to the margins they make on their CPU's (especially on the server and HEDT segments....).

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3 hours ago, Cinnabar Sonar said:

Traditionally, yes.  However, with the popularity of streaming, and Ryzen being competitive, we might see a change.

I never price compared the two.

The mainstream platform hasn't seen an increase in cores (at least on Intel's side) for a while, and I would imagine that many who are on Skylake/Kaby Lake would like to upgrade.

Perhaps I am wrong in that assumption?

 

Nevertheless, if Intel doesn't have a good reason to block backwards compatibility with Coffee Lake and z270, I would consider it a pretty dumb move.

 

It remains to be seen if streaming is enough to warrant a the change in their roadmap/strategy.

 

1 hour ago, Cinnabar Sonar said:

Do we know whether or not Intel profits off of chipsets?  Like making a certain percentage off of a motherboard sale with their chipset?

 

 

I would say enough for them to take into account when considering what will get them the best market capitalization.   Given how narrow the z series market is compared to all others,  I can't see it being enough out earn what they would have made had they been able to release CL on the 200 series.

 

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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1 hour ago, mr moose said:

 

It remains to be seen if streaming is enough to warrant a the change in their roadmap/strategy.

 

 

I would say enough for them to take into account when considering what will get them the best market capitalization.   Given how narrow the z series market is compared to all others,  I can't see it being enough out earn what they would have made had they been able to release CL on the 200 series.

 

That just makes Intel's decision more baffling to me.  Perhaps there are compatibility issues that Andrew Wu doesn't know about?

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11 minutes ago, Cinnabar Sonar said:

That just makes Intel's decision more baffling to me.  Perhaps there are compatibility issues that Andrew Wu doesn't know about?

Or he does know very well about it (being a board manufacturer he would know at least as much as Linus if not more) and that article was just a cheap PR grab by Asus (throwing Intel under the bus so to speak gets them noticed). EDIT: especially by PC enthusiast who already feel something is wrong.

 

Like all things in this field, if you dig up forum posts from 15 years ago you'll see it has all happened before.  All companies do this stuff (or similar) and nine times out of ten there turns out to be a legitimate reason for it.   We forum posters just have a short memory for most of it and love to get into a company for being *insert pet peeve here*.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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1 minute ago, mr moose said:

Or he does know very well about it (being a board manufacturer he would know at least as much as Linus if not more) and that article was just a cheap PR grab by Asus (throwing Intel under the bus so to speak gets them noticed).

I never thought about that.

2 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Like all things in this field, if you dig up forum posts from 15 years ago you'll see it has all happened before.  All companies do this stuff (or similar) and nine times out of ten there turns out to be a legitimate reason for it.   We forum posters just have a short memory for most of it and love to get into a company for being *insert pet peeve here*.

A legitimate reason for a PR grab?  Or a legitimate reason for not including backwards compatibility with Coffee Lake?

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14 minutes ago, Cinnabar Sonar said:

I never thought about that.

A legitimate reason for a PR grab?  Or a legitimate reason for not including backwards compatibility with Coffee Lake?

 

For backwards compatability.  

 

EDIT: although you could argue from the companies perspective that is also a legitimate reason for a PR grab.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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11 minutes ago, mr moose said:

EDIT: although you could argue from the companies perspective that is also a legitimate reason for a PR grab.

Business wise, probably.  Ethically, probably not.

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1 minute ago, Cinnabar Sonar said:

Business wise, probably.  Ethically, probably not.

Well, Asus are under investigation right now for price fixing in the EU.  So it's not likely beneath them to take any shot they have.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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1 minute ago, mr moose said:

Well, Asus are under investigation right now for price fixing in the EU.  So it's not likely beneath them to take any shot they have.

Jeez, kinda makes me feel bad for liking their products...

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28 minutes ago, Cinnabar Sonar said:

Jeez, kinda makes me feel bad for liking their products...

 

If you start doing that you might find yourself not liking any products.  :o

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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1 minute ago, mr moose said:

If you start doing that you might find yourself not liking any products.  :o

I know, I know.  I guess all that I should care about is the quality of the products.

Damn sense of ethics, getting in the way.  :P

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