"AMD Rx Vega - Apple debuts two Vega GPUs unveiling the specs for July's gaming cards"

[laminutederire]

You guys should just stop trying to figure something out from tflops numbers. As some have pointed out, they completely reworked their pipeline, with better performance /tflops ratio and some technologies like time based rendering which probably what gave maxwell an edge to begin with. This could level the perf/tflops ratio as it could not, we can't know.

I know you are dissapointed with them pushing the launch,  but we don't know much about its performance yet, so there's no point in saying big vega is just a 1070 -1080 concurrent and that amd is dead.

The only thing we know is that they're very much alive since Apple and HP both are advertising Vega, meaning it has a purpose either in performance, or in value.

[Mihle]

7 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

I wouldn't be so sure of that. AMD's launch drivers have a history of being shit.

Well, from what I have heard, they have supposedly worked harder on launch drivers now than before, but it's also a bigger difference in architecture than before....

[XenosTech]

1 minute ago, laminutederire said:

You guys should just stop trying to figure something out from tflops numbers. As some have pointed out, they completely reworked their pipeline, with better performance /tflops ratio and some technologies like time based rendering which probably what gave maxwell an edge to begin with. This could level the perf/tflops ratio as it could not, we can't know.

I know you are dissapointed with them pushing the launch,  but we don't know much about its performance yet, so there's no point in saying big vega is just a 1070 -1080 concurrent and that amd is dead.

The only thing we know is that they're very much alive since Apple and HP both are advertising Vega, meaning it has a purpose either in performance, or in value.

I wish people would stop talking about tflops on a whole... It' not like it translates into better gaming performance 99% of the time

[laminutederire]

Just now, XenosTech said:

I wish people would stop talking about tflops on a whole... It' not like it translates into better gaming performance 99% of the time

True that, especially when we don't know anything about that architecture in gaming

[XenosTech]

Just now, laminutederire said:

True that, especially when we don't know anything about that architecture in gaming

I mean look at the 480/580... those are on par with the 1070 when it comes to stuff like mining but the 1070 is miles ahead in gaming and it's neck and neck with the 1060.

[PCGuy_5960]

22 minutes ago, XenosTech said:

I wish people would stop talking about tflops on a whole... It' not like it translates into better gaming performance 99% of the time

^^ This, a 4.4 TFLOP 1060 is on par with a 5.5 TFLOP RX 480. TFLOPs don't indicate performance, unless you are talking about compute performance

[XenosTech]

1 minute ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

^^ This, a 4.4 TFLOP 1060 is on par with a 5.5 TFLOP RX 480. TFLOPs don't indicate performance, unless you are talking about compute performance

Even then at compute performance clock speed and pipeline design are still crucial to that performance.

[PCGuy_5960]

Just now, XenosTech said:

Even then at compute performance clock speed and pipeline design are still crucial to that performance.

Yeah, I am simply saying that if you are comparing compute performance, TFLOPs are somewhat accurate

[SpaceGhostC2C]

5 hours ago, Tigermanic said:

And if these aren't the specs for July's first two RX Vega cards I'll eat a Frontier Edition...

 

I guess someone is eating a GPU pretty soon. It's pretty clear Apple uses the "Radeon Pro" versions or whatever they call the former ATI FirePro now. Basically AMD's Quadro.

[laminutederire]

41 minutes ago, XenosTech said:

I mean look at the 480/580... those are on par with the 1070 when it comes to stuff like mining but the 1070 is miles ahead in gaming and it's neck and neck with the 1060.

Yes they are, and Raja knows it. He talked about that a while back, where he acknowledged that amd cards were underutilized in games, thus the rework they did with vega with pipeline scheduling etc

[Curufinwe_wins]

1 hour ago, Starelementpoke said:

I mean, this is assuming VEGA is just Almost pretty much the exact same as Polaris. 

Even a 15% efficiency uplift is amazing, but not enough to reach GP102.

[dalekphalm]

5 hours ago, Energycore said:

 Raja's a Ph.D?

 

5 hours ago, Prysin said:

close, but not quite.

Fun fact: Raja has a Masters in Electronics and in Business.

[rawrdaysgoby]

Even if it doesn't beat out the 1080ti.... it will definitely be a few hundo cheaper...

[FishTea]

Vega transitioned from GCN to NCU. you guys have a magic ball or what? we don't know how will it perform regarding its tflops

 

i

[handymanshandle]

6 hours ago, Energycore said:

Well he worked there. It's not like Apple is his parents

Sure he can be Apple's brood and they could've reared him.

[Drak3]

7 hours ago, Doobeedoo said:

Nothing I already didn't know though. I know AMD wants to sell Vega FE before RX variants though Apple and others maybe may request many so RX Vega release was set further.

Apple won't be using RX counterparts of AMD VEGA, they'll be using the Radeon Pro counterparts. 

[Prysin]

2 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

 

Fun fact: Raja has a Masters in Electronics and in Business.

it's almost like he has been planning specifically to be in the business of selling you GPUs.... 

[Prysin]

6 hours ago, leadeater said:

GCN 4.0? I think their information is wrong on that one 

Yep, its 5.0

 

For those not keeping count:

Pitcairn/Tahiti = 1.0

Hawaii/Kaveri = 2.0

Tonga/Fiji = 3.0

Polaris = 4.0

VEGA = 5.0

NAVI = 6.0?

[Humbug]

7 hours ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

Only beating the 1080ti by 1 TFLOP is pretty bad news. Means it won't come close to 1080ti performance, and probably won't beat the 1080 by all that much.

 

480 sits at 5.8 TFLOPS, the 1060 is only 4.4 and they have the same performance (+/- 3%).

 

The 1080 is already north of 9 TFLOPS.

Using the same AMD to Nvidia TFLOP efficiency (4.4/5.8*12.5)="9.5 Nvidia TFLOPs Projected"

 

Now with that said... we obviously expect Vega to be more computationally efficient than Polaris, but it would be a nice boost to beat the 1080, the 1080ti is completely out of reach.

Previous AMD tflops : performance ratio are no longer valid with Vega. Below video explains why.

This is the most radical GCN iteration yet

[79wjd]

12 minutes ago, Prysin said:

Yep, its 5.0

 

For those not keeping count:

Pitcairn/Tahiti = 1.0

Hawaii/Kaveri = 2.0

Tonga/Fiji = 3.0

Polaris = 4.0

VEGA = 5.0

NAVI = 6.0?

 

4 minutes ago, Humbug said:

This is the most radical GCN iteration yet

It's not GCN though, it's NCU.

[ApolloFury]

11 hours ago, Energycore said:

Well he worked there. It's not like Apple is his parents

Well...you know what I mean

[Taf the Ghost]

The real open question with RX Vega is the new driver approach. If they've completely redone that, we simply can't predict what the results will be. The leaks from the same sources as the AMD CPU say it's really good, but that's about all we have to go on right now.  We know it'll be competitive, but we haven't even gotten suggestions on prices yet.

 

We simply lack information at the moment to figure out anything useful. Leaks have actually been surprisingly small.  We know a ton about upcoming CPUs, but GPUs are just nothing but crumbs right now.

[Humbug]

2 hours ago, Taf the Ghost said:

The real open question with RX Vega is the new driver approach. If they've completely redone that, we simply can't predict what the results will be.

Not completely redone obviously but because it's a more radical hardware change than previous GCN iterations it requires a lot more new work on the drivers to tune for performance.

 

Whether that work will be mostly done by launch or whether it will keep getting better over the next one year remains to be seen...

[Prysin]

12 hours ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

Yeah, I am simply saying that if you are comparing compute performance, TFLOPs are somewhat accurate

i'd say some of the reason AMDs TFLOP hasnt matched its game performance has a lot to do with driver overhead, coupled with Nvidias advantage in rasterization and geometry.

 

Infact, i think we need to go back to Fermi vs VLIW5/Tahiti to see the last time AMDs TFLOP gave us a realistic overview of their performance.

 

Now, VEGA has new CUs, new tiled rasterizers and a new geometry engine. Perhaps the numbers will match up again? we'll see

[Doobeedoo]

8 hours ago, Drak3 said:

Apple won't be using RX counterparts of AMD VEGA, they'll be using the Radeon Pro counterparts. 

They both use same GPU and specially HBM2 too which is not easy to get. Thus limited availability in start. So they want to sell pro counterparts first for higher margins. The consumer RX after, optimized for games and being faster.