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AM4 mobo's BIOS performance bias?!

zMeul
By zMeul
in Tech News
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Posted
56 minutes ago, SamStrecker said:

But it's still the CPU and consumers can acheive the same results. If they were using custom versions of the benchmark software or something more fishy then we would have a problem

 

Not necessarily, the settings could put such a strain on the chip that it can handle the momentary usage of a benchmark but will suffer damage if those same settings are used in day to day use.

My Build:

Spoiler

CPU: i7 4770k GPU: GTX 780 Direct CUII Motherboard: Asus Maximus VI Hero SSD: 840 EVO 250GB HDD: 2xSeagate 2 TB PSU: EVGA Supernova G2 650W

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Posted
2 minutes ago, MakeAMDGreatAgain said:

WTF! Why did that person on the last page say "just in a few hours" lol, more like freaking 12!

I dunno hahaha, misinformation maybe?

 

I found a PCGamer.com article that states:

http://www.pcgamer.com/amd-ryzen-7-prepares-for-worldwide-launch-on-march-2/

Quote

as soon as the embargo lifts, which is set for March 2.

Doesn't state a specific time but the time I heard being thrown around was 9:00AM Central so I'd plan for that.

If it does lift sooner then it'll just be a pleasant surprise xD

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Posted
1 minute ago, Centurius said:

Not necessarily, the settings could put such a strain on the chip that it can handle the momentary usage of a benchmark but will suffer damage if those same settings are used in day to day use.

So you're saying it essentially overclocks it? That'd be a pretty dumb thing to do as that's EASILY debunked in independent reviews.

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Posted
Just now, imreloadin said:

So you're saying it essentially overclocks it? That'd be a pretty dumb thing to do as that's EASILY debunked in independent reviews.

I'm not saying it does, but that's the only likely way of boosting a chip in certain scenarios.

My Build:

Spoiler

CPU: i7 4770k GPU: GTX 780 Direct CUII Motherboard: Asus Maximus VI Hero SSD: 840 EVO 250GB HDD: 2xSeagate 2 TB PSU: EVGA Supernova G2 650W

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Posted
26 minutes ago, Centurius said:

Not necessarily, the settings could put such a strain on the chip that it can handle the momentary usage of a benchmark but will suffer damage if those same settings are used in day to day use.

Right but synthetic vs actual loads are always different. What I am trying to say is anyone who buys the chip cam do the same thing and achieve the same results. No harm done

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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36 minutes ago, SamStrecker said:

Right but synthetic vs actual loads are always different. What I am trying to say is anyone who buys the chip cam do the same thing and achieve the same results. No harm done

My R4BE already has inbuilt OC and settings tweaks for CPUs I install in to it, this is nothing new..... So they gave them specific names related to benchmark tools, OMG stop the press.

 

Seriously those very same settings could help in other use cases too, you don't HAVE to use them in the specific named application.

 

Anyone also considered this is just controlling how the boost works? Like bias all core equal boost versus only boosting 4 cores or 1 core to get best results.

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4 minutes ago, leadeater said:

My R4BE already has inbuilt OC and settings tweaks for CPUs I install in to it, this is nothing new..... So they gave them specific names related to benchmark tools, OMG stop the press.

 

Seriously those very same settings could help in other use cases too, you don't HAVE to use them in the specific named application.

 

Anyone also considered this is just controlling how the boost works? Like bias all core equal boost versus only boosting 4 cores or 1 core to get best results.

There we go, someone who gets it. I think people just want to make news for the sake of something they are a bit scared of.

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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̌̅̒̾̈́̆͌̌̾̎̽̐̅̏́̈̔͛̀̋̃͊̒̓͗͒̑͒̃͂̌̄̇̑̇͛̆̾͛̒̇̍̒̓̀̈́̄̐͂̍͊͗̎̔͌͛̂̏̉̊̎͗͊͒̂̈̽̊́̔̊̃͑̈́̑̌̋̓̅̔́́͒̄̈́̈̂͐̈̅̈̓͌̓͊́̆͌̉͐̊̉͛̓̏̓̅̈́͂̉̒̇̉̆̀̍̄̇͆͛̏̉̑̃̓͂́͋̃̆̒͋̓͊̄́̓̕̕̕̚͘͘͘̚̕̚͘̕̕͜͜͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͠ͅS̷̢̨̧̢̡̨̢̨̢̨̧̧̨̧͚̱̪͇̱̮̪̮̦̝͖̜͙̘̪̘̟̱͇͎̻̪͚̩͍̠̹̮͚̦̝̤͖̙͔͚̙̺̩̥̻͈̺̦͕͈̹̳̖͓̜͚̜̭͉͇͖̟͔͕̹̯̬͍̱̫̮͓̙͇̗̙̼͚̪͇̦̗̜̼̠͈̩̠͉͉̘̱̯̪̟͕̘͖̝͇̼͕̳̻̜͖̜͇̣̠̹̬̗̝͓̖͚̺̫͛̉̅̐̕͘͜͜͜͜ͅͅͅ.̶̨̢̢̨̢̨̢̛̻͙̜̼̮̝̙̣̘̗̪̜̬̳̫̙̮̣̹̥̲̥͇͈̮̟͉̰̮̪̲̗̳̰̫̙͍̦̘̠̗̥̮̹̤̼̼̩͕͉͕͇͙̯̫̩̦̟̦̹͈͔̱̝͈̤͓̻̟̮̱͖̟̹̝͉̰͊̓̏̇͂̅̀̌͑̿͆̿̿͗̽̌̈́̉̂̀̒̊̿͆̃̄͑͆̃̇͒̀͐̍̅̃̍̈́̃̕͘͜͜͝͠͠z̴̢̢̡̧̢̢̧̢̨̡̨̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̲͚̠̜̮̠̜̞̤̺͈̘͍̻̫͖̣̥̗̙̳͓͙̫̫͖͍͇̬̲̳̭̘̮̤̬̖̼͎̬̯̼̮͔̭̠͎͓̼̖̟͈͓̦̩̦̳̙̮̗̮̩͙͓̮̰̜͎̺̞̝̪͎̯̜͈͇̪̙͎̩͖̭̟͎̲̩͔͓͈͌́̿͐̍̓͗͑̒̈́̎͂̋͂̀͂̑͂͊͆̍͛̄̃͌͗̌́̈̊́́̅͗̉͛͌͋̂̋̇̅̔̇͊͑͆̐̇͊͋̄̈́͆̍̋̏͑̓̈́̏̀͒̂̔̄̅̇̌̀̈́̿̽̋͐̾̆͆͆̈̌̿̈́̎͌̊̓̒͐̾̇̈́̍͛̅͌̽́̏͆̉́̉̓̅́͂͛̄̆͌̈́̇͐̒̿̾͌͊͗̀͑̃̊̓̈̈́̊͒̒̏̿́͑̄̑͋̀̽̀̔̀̎̄͑̌̔́̉̐͛̓̐̅́̒̎̈͆̀̍̾̀͂̄̈́̈́̈́̑̏̈́̐̽̐́̏̂̐̔̓̉̈́͂̕̚̕͘͘̚͘̚̕̚̚̚͘̕̕̕͜͜͝͠͠͝͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅī̸̧̧̧̡̨̨̢̨̛̛̘͓̼̰̰̮̗̰͚̙̥̣͍̦̺͈̣̻͇̱͔̰͈͓͖͈̻̲̫̪̲͈̜̲̬̖̻̰̦̰͙̤̘̝̦̟͈̭̱̮̠͍̖̲͉̫͔͖͔͈̻̖̝͎̖͕͔̣͈̤̗̱̀̅̃̈́͌̿̏͋̊̇̂̀̀̒̉̄̈́͋͌̽́̈́̓̑̈̀̍͗͜͜͠͠ͅp̴̢̢̧̨̡̡̨̢̨̢̢̢̨̡̛̛͕̩͕̟̫̝͈̖̟̣̲̖̭̙͇̟̗͖͎̹͇̘̰̗̝̹̤̺͉͎̙̝̟͙͚̦͚͖̜̫̰͖̼̤̥̤̹̖͉͚̺̥̮̮̫͖͍̼̰̭̤̲͔̩̯̣͖̻͇̞̳̬͉̣̖̥̣͓̤͔̪̙͎̰̬͚̣̭̞̬͎̼͉͓̮͙͕̗̦̞̥̮̘̻͎̭̼͚͎͈͇̥̗͖̫̮̤̦͙̭͎̝͖̣̰̱̩͎̩͎̘͇̟̠̱̬͈̗͍̦̘̱̰̤̱̘̫̫̮̥͕͉̥̜̯͖̖͍̮̼̲͓̤̮͈̤͓̭̝̟̲̲̳̟̠͉̙̻͕͙̞͔̖͈̱̞͓͔̬̮͎̙̭͎̩̟̖͚̆͐̅͆̿͐̄̓̀̇̂̊̃̂̄̊̀͐̍̌̅͌̆͊̆̓́̄́̃̆͗͊́̓̀͑͐̐̇͐̍́̓̈́̓̑̈̈́̽͂́̑͒͐͋̊͊̇̇̆̑̃̈́̎͛̎̓͊͛̐̾́̀͌̐̈́͛̃̂̈̿̽̇̋̍͒̍͗̈͘̚̚͘̚͘͘͜͜͜͜͜͜͠͠͝͝ͅͅͅ☻♥■∞{╚mYÄÜXτ╕○\╚Θº£¥ΘBM@Q05♠{{↨↨▬§¶‼↕◄►☼1♦  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Posted
1 hour ago, That Norwegian Guy said:

I think, eh I, hang on

 

hqdefault.jpg

HNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNGH

 

Okay, maybe the implication is that he thinks the BIOS setting is going to skew benchmarks....?

 

CALM DOWN, I KNOW IT'S A STRETCH

 

BUT IT'S zMEUL, calm down, his mind works in mysterious ways. I'm SURE there's supposed to be some kind of jab at AMD in here, but I think this one is going to be too thin to even identify. I'm sorry, I did my best to try and decipher what's so bad about this.

So its OK for AMD to cheat in benchmarks but not Intel?

"We also blind small animals with cosmetics.
We do not sell cosmetics. We just blind animals."

 

"Please don't mistake us for Equifax. Those fuckers are evil"

 

This PSA brought to you by Equifacks.
PMSL

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Posted

Biasing like with tube amplifiers? That's going to be annoying. 

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2 hours ago, SamStrecker said:

But it's still the CPU and consumers can acheive the same results. If they were using custom versions of the benchmark software or something more fishy then we would have a problem

What do those results, the Cinebench score for instance, mean?  

Cinebench is supposed to give you an idea of how well your hardware will perform in rendering workloads; what if Ryzen is (somehow) tuned to perform better in Cinebench than it would in a normal rendering workload though?

 

@Sampsy already addressed this earlier in this thread.

3 hours ago, Sampsy said:

The VW emissions scandal was a very similar thing - their cars detected when they were being tested and adjusted settings to make the engine run much cleaner than it normally would.

But I'm sure you'd ( @SamStrecker) argue that as anybody could achieve the same result with their VW that it's fine the emissions test results weren't representing the actual amount of exhaust being released into the environment.  

giphy.gif

 

We don't know what these settings actually do, so this is a bit sensationalistic, but anyone saying that this doesn't matter is delusional. 

Linus Sebastian said:

The stand is indeed made of metal but I wouldn't drive my car over a bridge made of it.

 

https://youtu.be/X5YXWqhL9ik?t=552

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5 hours ago, Godlygamer23 said:

I'd advise adding a translated version of the Tweet as many of us cannot speak French. Yes we could translate it manually, but it'd be more convenient to have it ready for us.

we need a rule added to the CoC
"non-english sources MUST be translated prior to posting. Failure to comply will have the post removed"

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Images of setup: http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/183-show-off-your-setup/?p=5872590

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2 hours ago, Orangeator said:

There is no reason for their to be a fuss. These are basically just presets for BIOS that anyone could manually do him or herself.

Then why label each bench?

And have 2 for cinebench?

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2 hours ago, SamStrecker said:

There we go, someone who gets it. I think people just want to make news for the sake of something they are a bit scared of.

The accusers are paid. The accusations are false news. Fake news. Very fake news zMeul

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Images of setup: http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/183-show-off-your-setup/?p=5872590

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People forget that most intel MB have option called milticore enhancement which overclocks all cores to achieve the 1 core turbo boost, and its turned on by default. 

No one is playing fare when it come to benchmarks so why would you expect motherboard manufacturers or amd to do so. I don't get it. 

 

Slowly...In the hollows of the trees, In the shadow of the leaves, In the space between the waves, In the whispers of the wind,In the bottom of the well, In the darkness of the eaves...

Slowly places that had been silent for who knows how long... Stopped being Silent.

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  • Author
3 hours ago, leadeater said:

My R4BE already has inbuilt OC and settings tweaks for CPUs I install in to it, this is nothing new..... So they gave them specific names related to benchmark tools, OMG stop the press.

 

Seriously those very same settings could help in other use cases too, you don't HAVE to use them in the specific named application.

 

Anyone also considered this is just controlling how the boost works? Like bias all core equal boost versus only boosting 4 cores or 1 core to get best results.

you don't get it do you ...

 

just prior to a major CPU launch it comes to light ASUS has special tailored settings in the BIOS that can skew benchmark results - you say it doesn't matter how they named each value .. really?! yeah it should absolutely trigger alarm bells because this was done before in other ways: special BIOS for video card reviews, or OS tweaks to phones so they score higher in benches

when those things happen it's a very big problem, .. why in this case it should be brushed off? it should absolutely be investigated

 

you don't have to use them? isn't that funny?! the default setting for it is on Auto, not disabled like it should've been .. but auto!!

 

---

 

when Intel gests accused of meddling in the Zen benchmarks, without any actual evidence mid you, they get burned to the ground

when there's evidence ASUS has a special setting in the BIOS that could influence benchmarking it gets brushed off

 

the hypocrisy reached the ceiling

 

----

 

and then there are the attacks against me that also get tolerated .. surprisingly unsurprising

I dare to speak up, I dare to bring evidence when something doesn't feel right; and will continue to do so

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Just now, zMeul said:

-snip-

I guess you missed the bios version being publicly available on the Asus website?

 

Stop blowing this out of proportion and wait for benchmarks.

 

2 minutes ago, zMeul said:

the hypocrisy reached the ceiling

That is pure opinion and nothing more, I feel the same for what you are saying. Don't just throw statements out there otherwise refer to your same above quote.

 

4 minutes ago, zMeul said:

you don't have to use them? isn't that funny?! the default setting for it is on Auto, not disabled like it should've been .. but auto!!

Again auto on my R4BE and almost every other Intel based motherboard. When you buy high end motherboards these are inbuilt features that are on by default, even the CPU voltage is higher than spec by default.

 

I guess it's too much to ask that people read what you write AND comprehend it. Point blank as I stated my R4BE does this type of thing but uses different names. None of us knows what those settings do and you seriously can't wait a day before throwing a fit?

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8 hours ago, zMeul said:

because that's exactly what happened when GTX10 series AIB cards launched - MSI and ASUS sent reviewers special cards clocked higher than retail ones

let's not pretend it's not an issue

Its not an issue if its the exact same way consumers will get the board. Which we don't know yet.

 

The issue with the "reviewers" bios on the GPU's that came out was that they were not the same as the consumer bios. the software is part of the product so the benchmarks were not of the same product that the reviews were labeled as.

 

PS, I haven't read most of the thread so if this has been pointed out disregard.

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1 minute ago, leadeater said:

I guess you missed the bios version being publicly available on the Asus website?

 

Stop blowing this out of proportion and wait for benchmarks.

 

That is pure opinion and nothing more, I feel the same for what you are saying. Don't just throw statements out there otherwise refer to your same above quote.

 

Again auto on my R4BE and almost every other Intel based motherboard. When you buy high end motherboards these are inbuilt features that are on by default, even the CPU voltage is higher than spec by default.

 

I guess it's too much to ask that people read what you write AND comprehend it. Point blank as I stated my R4BE does this type of thing but uses different names. None of us knows what those settings do and you seriously can't wait a day before throwing a fit?

The setting quite clearly says "preformance bias" then lists 3 benchmarks that are used by pretty much anyone benchmarking a CPU.

"We also blind small animals with cosmetics.
We do not sell cosmetics. We just blind animals."

 

"Please don't mistake us for Equifax. Those fuckers are evil"

 

This PSA brought to you by Equifacks.
PMSL

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10 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

The setting quite clearly says "preformance bias" then lists 3 benchmarks that are used by pretty much anyone benchmarking a CPU.

Yes I can see that, but without any technical information on what it is the acceptable and reasonable option is wait for reviews and the technical explanation of what it is by them and the manufacture.

 

4 hours ago, leadeater said:

Anyone also considered this is just controlling how the boost works? Like bias all core equal boost versus only boosting 4 cores or 1 core to get best results.

Different benchmarks favor different things, if something stops benefiting from more than 4-6 cores you could create a bios setting to preference boosting only that many cores there by increasing the benchmark scores. That very same setting could then also be used for non heavily threaded games.

 

I get that the names incite concern what I don't agree with is not being able to wait a very small amount of time before throwing around accusations.

 

Edit:

I'm not saying don't talk about it, it's very interesting just don't jump straight to they are guilty.

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2 hours ago, Prysin said:

The accusers are paid. The accusations are false news. Fake news. Very fake news zMeul

Yep, be like POTUS and only trust serious news from this man:

 

Spoiler

 

On a serious note why are most people assuming they know what the BIOS settings do from just some screenshots? Can't assume it's just a faster overclock. If there's anything to it we still don't know, it's likely but you're all jumping ahead of the facts to justify AMD, stop doing that.

-------

Current Rig

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23 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Yes I can see that, but without any technical information on what it is the acceptable and reasonable option is wait for reviews and the technical explanation of what it is by them and the manufacture.

 

Different benchmarks favor different things, if something stops benefiting from more than 4-6 cores you could create a bios setting to preference boosting only that many cores there by increasing the benchmark scores. That very same setting could then also be used for non heavily threaded games.

 

I get that the names incite concern what I don't agree with is not being able to wait a very small amount of time before throwing around accusations.

 

Edit:

I'm not saying don't talk about it, it's very interesting just don't jump straight to they are guilty.

Here's what it does: https://www.manualslib.com/manual/949421/Supero-X9srh-7f.html?page=84

"We also blind small animals with cosmetics.
We do not sell cosmetics. We just blind animals."

 

"Please don't mistake us for Equifax. Those fuckers are evil"

 

This PSA brought to you by Equifacks.
PMSL

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I have a feature like this on my Gigabyte Z87 Motherboard for my 4790K. It fixes incorrect scores shown by PCMark06... More people trying to find things or reasons not to buy AMD's new CPU.

 

 

System Specs:

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2 minutes ago, sof006 said:

I have a feature like this on my Gigabyte Z87 Motherboard for my 4790K. It fixes incorrect scores shown by PCMark06... More people trying to find things or reasons not to buy AMD's new CPU.

 

 

Its the kind of setting that should at the very least be defaulted to disabled, and does skew results significantly-also, PCMark06 is one of the benchmarks that according to Futuremark

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These benchmarks should not be used to test modern hardware.

 

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wait if this works of of workload this could be pretty OK tbh, it could aid in boosting preformance i guess. its shady AF and i want to know if this is AMDs workings or the motherboard manufacturer but if you put it on auto that could mean more preformance in certain tasks and not JUST benchmarks probably

I spent $2500 on building my PC and all i do with it is play no games atm & watch anime at 1080p(finally) watch YT and write essays...  nothing, it just sits there collecting dust...

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1 hour ago, leadeater said:

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it being available on ASUS' site matters how!?

these settings are tailored specifically for benchmarks, not for regular loads - they even bothered to name them as such

Quote

even the CPU voltage is higher than spec by default.

those settings affect all workloads and don't discriminate

 

 

I wonder what was your stance on the WCCFTech article on Intel :dry:

I seriously doubt you said "let's wait for benchmarks" .. eh

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