AM4 mobo's BIOS performance bias?!

[MageTank]

6 hours ago, zMeul said:

@leadeater

look at this, AMD is doing something really funky with the BIOS

 

OCCT all cores 100% load, look at the clocks:

 

now CineBench MT:

 

 

is this the proof you're asking?

 

Jesus. You are right. That is scary. It's voltage changed from 1.21 to 1.275 and it only got an extra 150mhz. Great detective work, am not gonna buy Zen now.

 

Seriously though, I understand the paranoia given what we seen with those BIOS images, but you understand not all "100% loads" are the same, right? The difference in thermals from 100% load (AVX2) and 100% load (lets say, ton of VM's) are two entirely different levels of heat. With different levels of heat, expect different boost potential. Besides, all I am seeing is basically an auto-OC if anything (given that the voltage changed alongside the clock speed).

 

Almost looks like an application-level LLC. Boosts voltage and clock speed temporarily for a specific application to keep it stable during the bench. Then again, what do I know? I don't have the platform, and am often an idiot. 

[leadeater]

28 minutes ago, MageTank said:

Jesus. You are right. That is scary. It's voltage changed from 1.21 to 1.275 and it only got an extra 150mhz. Great detective work, am not gonna buy Zen now.

 

Seriously though, I understand the paranoia given what we seen with those BIOS images, but you understand not all "100% loads" are the same, right? The difference in thermals from 100% load (AVX2) and 100% load (lets say, ton of VM's) are two entirely different levels of heat. With different levels of heat, expect different boost potential. Besides, all I am seeing is basically an auto-OC if anything (given that the voltage changed alongside the clock speed).

 

Almost looks like an application-level LLC. Boosts voltage and clock speed temporarily for a specific application to keep it stable during the bench. Then again, what do I know? I don't have the platform, and am often an idiot. 

If it actually wasn't so expensive to buy a complete Ryzen system I'd love to get one and test all of this stuff out for myself.

[MageTank]

5 minutes ago, leadeater said:

If it actually wasn't so expensive to buy a complete Ryzen system I'd love to get one and test all of this stuff out for myself.

Same. I'd love to be the one to solve it's memory issues with a good old fashion tertiary love making session. That 80ns latency is just abysmal, and needs to be punished. My safeword is Razzledazzle.

[scottyseng]

2 hours ago, zMeul said:

I do not know

the layout of the BIOS on the mobo he uses is quite different and he doesn't go through all the available settings

there are other settings missing from his BIOS, like SMT Mode, BCLK Freq, BCLK Divider

Props to you for finding the clock difference in cinebench vs normal loads...I was wondering why reviewers didn't mention this BIOS setting for applications in the reviews I've seen

[bcredeur97]

*UEFI

[done12many2]

@zMeul 

 

 

 

[LAwLz]

I was thinking of ordering a Ryzen 1700X build yesterday but decided to wait since no motherboards were in stock and prices may fluctuate in the coming week or two... Now I have decided to wait to see because it seems like AMD and co are doing some really shady things and who knows what issues/bullshit might be discovered in the coming weeks.

 

It's a shame, because I am really looking forward to upgrading and Ryzen seems good, but I don't want to be a beta tester and discover that my new computer is full of issues and lies.

 

Edit: Ordered it anyway... It will be a while before it ships though since the motherboard isn't in stock. So I will have a week or two to cancel.

[zMeul]

 

when you talk shit and you don't deliver

[AlTech]

3 minutes ago, zMeul said:

snip

Nobody undelivered here.

 

AMD told people to compare Ryzen 7 to Broadwell-E.

The Press/Media compared Ryzen to Broadwell-E and then to Kabylake for no damn reason.

 

 

[zMeul]

5 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Edit: Ordered it anyway... It will be a while before it ships though since the motherboard isn't in stock. So I will have a week or two to cancel.

I suggest you cancel and wait at least one month

 

there is some serious shit going on with Zen itself and mobos right now

the RAM fix is ~2 months down the line

and as I turns out, AMD wasn't even prepared for launch, they did all of this on the knee as it was reported back to them - that's over9000 level of amateurism

and only god knows what errors are (if they are) at the instruction set level - mind you, Intel had to deal with the AVX 256bit "bug" 1/2y after release

 

calm your horses, wait it out

[zMeul]

5 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

Nobody undelivered here.

 

AMD told people to compare Ryzen 7 to Broadwell-E.

The Press/Media compared Ryzen to Broadwell-E and then to Kabylake for no damn reason.

AMD themselves compared Zen to Kabys in Sniper Elite 4 - on stage

 

and why wouldn't reviewers compare Zen to Kaby? because Kaby is cheaper than Zen ?! 

the idea of the reviewer is for him/her to provide the consumer with the best information they can get their hands on and allow the consumer to make the best informed purchase

reviewers are not propaganda machines - AMD asked JayzTwoCents to actually disable features on Intel's machine before doing benchmarks - are you fucking kidding me!?

[AlTech]

14 minutes ago, zMeul said:

AMD themselves compared Zen to Kabys in Sniper Elite 4 

They were showing it on games which support Multi core CPUs.

 

Games which can utilize multi core CPUs will work better on Ryzen. Otherwise they will work better on Intel.

 

This is nothing new. I 100% expected this.

Edited March 3, 2017 by AluminiumTech
Fixed a typo -_-

[Organized]

21 minutes ago, zMeul said:

 

when you talk shit and you don't deliver

You have absolutely no idea how stock markets work. It's just ridiculous how you try to hate on AMD with stupid things like this, just stop talking about things you know nothing about.

[zMeul]

Just now, Organized said:

You have absolutely no idea how stock markets work. It's just ridiculous how you try to hate on AMD with stupid things like this, just stop talking about things you know nothing about.

yeah, it just happens for AMD to drop 7% just the day after release

tell me, what other companies dropped 7% yesterday?

[done12many2]

Just now, Organized said:

You have absolutely no idea how stock markets work. It's just ridiculous how you try to hate on AMD with stupid things like this, just stop talking about things you know nothing about.

 

I know nothing about the stock market, but I do watch the news and I know that stocks usually increase in an around popular product launches for a company.

 

I'm interested.  Can you break it down for me?  

[Organized]

16 minutes ago, done12many2 said:

I'm interested.  Can you break it down for me?  

Sure. Stock markets are always a very speculative thing and there are different types of investors. Just a little part of them is selling and buying very quickly, these are the people who waited for the first review and instantly sold their stocks. They just bought them right before Ryzen came out and speculated on an awesome launch - and lost. This says absolutely nothing about what stock holders really think of Ryzen, which brings us to the other investors:

 

The biggest part of them is relying on financial numbers - these people will probably react at the end of this quarter, when the sales don't meet their expectations. These people don't care about reviews or benchmarks, they only care about numbers. Which makes sense, a company with the best processors on the market is worth nothing if they are bankrupt.

 

Also, another indicator that zMeul has no idea what he is talking about is, that AMDs stock has come from under 2$ in February 2016 to over 15$ in February 2017! 850% increase in one year and this guy is flaming on AMD because of -7%? What the heck?

And also have a look at this:

Since Ryzen has been announced and today, the stock only lost a tiny bit of worth, the -7% are just so incredibly uninteresting and trivial.

[RagnarokDel]

On 01/03/2017 at 6:17 PM, nerdslayer1 said:

 in Canada most people don't speak french.   

They should, as a secondary language for english speakers. There's really no excuse.

[done12many2]

4 minutes ago, Organized said:

Sure. Stock markets are always a very speculative thing and there are different types of investors. Just a little part of them is selling and buying very quickly, these are the people who waited for the first review and instantly sold their stocks. They just bought them right before Ryzen came out and speculated on an awesome launch - and lost. This says absolutely nothing about what stock holders really think of Ryzen, which brings us to the other investors:

 

The biggest part of them is relying on financial numbers - these people will probably react at the end of this quarter, when the sales don't meet their expectations. These people don't care about reviews or benchmarks, they only care about numbers. Which makes sense, a company with the best processors on the market is worth nothing if they are bankrupt.

 

Also, another indicator that zMeul has no idea what he is talking about is, that AMDs stock has come from under 2$ in February 2016 to over 15$ in February 2017! 850% increase in one year and this guy is flaming on AMD because of -7%? What the heck?

And also have a look at this:

Since Ryzen has been announced and today, the stock only lost a tiny bit of worth, the -7% are just so incredibly uninteresting and trivial.

 

Wow.  Nice break down and thank you.  I knew AMD stocks had strengthened more recently as you described.

 

In a way, I think you and @zMeul are saying the same thing, but in different ways with different purposes.

 

50 minutes ago, zMeul said:

when you talk shit and you don't deliver

 

7 minutes ago, Organized said:

 these are the people who waited for the first review and instantly sold their stocks. They just bought them right before Ryzen came out and speculated on an awesome launch - and lost.

 

 

[zMeul]

2 minutes ago, done12many2 said:

In a way, I think you and @zMeul are saying the same thing, but in different ways with different purposes.

yes, AMD hyped the shit out of Zen, built up their stock value and now it's deflating because of the results we're getting

if the trend continues the value of the stock could get back to the levels before the inflating occurred, ~10$ 

[Organized]

1 minute ago, done12many2 said:

In a way, I think you and @zMeul are saying the same thing, but in different ways with different purposes.

Well, no, these people who speculated on Ryzen launch are probably not into tech and they don't really know anything about CPUs and how they work. The just have lots of money and probably read about it on some newspaper. Stock market speculation works different than you might think, it's not really based on logic. Look how much worth for example Snapchat is at the moment - that has nothing to do with logic. zMeul however claims to know lot about tech but is obviously an Intel fanboy (to the max) and trys to hate on AMD in every way he possibly can.

[Organized]

1 minute ago, zMeul said:

if the trend continues

What trend are you talking about? A 1-day trend? How can you talk so much bullshit without feeling ashamed?

[done12many2]

1 minute ago, Organized said:

Well, no, these people who speculated on Ryzen launch are probably not into tech and they don't really know anything about CPUs and how they work. The just have lots of money and probably read about it on some newspaper. Stock market speculation works different than you might think, it's not really based on logic. Look how much worth for example Snapchat is at the moment - that has nothing to do with logic. zMeul however claims to know lot about tech but is obviously an Intel fanboy (to the max) and trys to hate on AMD in every way he possibly can.

 

Did stocks rise sharply after the announcement of Ryzen?  It looks like they did.

[zMeul]

3 minutes ago, Organized said:

What trend are you talking about? A 1-day trend? How can you talk so much bullshit without feeling ashamed?

March 1st - 15.08

March 2nd - 14.96

right now - 13.9

[Organized]

2 minutes ago, done12many2 said:

Did stocks rise sharply after the announcement of Ryzen?  It looks like they did.

No, they just increased by a few percent after the announcement. On January 31st they released their report for 2016, that's where the stock increased a lot. After the announcement of Ryzen there was just the usual fluctuation, no big deal.

 

3 minutes ago, zMeul said:

March 2nd 14.96

right now - 13.9

That's a one day trend, which is not a trend at all. Please, please, learn something about stocks and then come back, but arguing with you right now is absolutely pointless, sorry. You should really stop talking about things you know nothing about.

[done12many2]

Just now, Organized said:

No, they just increased by a few percent after the announcement. On January 31st they released their report for 2016, that's where the stock increased a lot. After the announcement of Ryzen there was just the usual fluctuation, no big deal.

 

Thanks again.