More Games WORSE on PlayStation 4 Pro

[Dionyz]

Basically the older PS4 console runs better than the PS4 Pro by 1-5 FPS at 1080p *In some games*. (Certain scenes can drop by 10 FPS) 

 

Sources: 

 

 

[Syntaxvgm]

it seems it experiences those performance drops at higher resolutions? 

[Metallus97]

HAHAHAHAHAH LOL 

wellllll WTF sony

glad I don't care about console

[Energycore]

Hmm. Lower clockspeeds because of the two SoCs? That could easily be fixed in software.

[SteveGrabowski0]

It's ridiculous seeing games rendered at fucking 1800p when you play them at 1080p. 4k is stupid for couch gaming, it only makes sense for pc gaming since you sit so close to the screen then. But sitting 7-8 feet away from the screen on a couch that fucker has to be huge for 4k to be worth much. I mean it looks nicer getting rid of some of the ant crawl artifacts you get at native 1080p, but that's a small thing to sacrifice a consistent framerate for. I'd never use DSR on my 970 to eliminate those temporal aliasing artifacts since they're pretty minor and require a ton of gpu horsepower.

[Dionyz]

8 minutes ago, Syntaxvgm said:

it seems it experiences those performance drops at higher resolutions? 

Happens during 1080p gaming. Most titles are fine, but some it's painful to look at.

 

Now the playstation users can now feel PC gamer's pain

[Masteryodi1980]

With Sony usually, especially first party games ans some SE games I could really care about UBER graphics! Great gameplay and immersion what gets me in games most of the times! Call of Duty has some great graphics and is a shit story of a game! Shovel Knight a pixel art game is great but lax Eye Popping GFX! GFX don't make the game, gameplay does!

[Techicolors]

It's soo painful knowing that the console have to "downgrade" its performance, but you put up with it just for the exclusive titles 

[Misanthrope]

Wait, worst?

Spoiler

 

[Dash Lambda]

Why is this surprising at all?

From what I've seen, it has basically the same GPU that's in the PS4, but two of them.

That's multi-GPU. That's something that we (the PC community) have been dealing with for decades and still haven't managed to get just peachy, and they're sticking it in a console running games that are heavily optimized for a single hardware configuration and nothing else.

 

Even if they only use one of them, it runs into the restrictions caused by heat output, power consumption, and maybe even bandwidth that come with having another GPU anyway, in addition to the fact that the hardware still isn't exactly what the software was designed to run on.

 

I'm personally surprised that most of the library is even playable on the PS4 Pro.

 

EDIT: Actually, looks like it only has one GPU...

[Guest Darth Revan]

Are people really that stupid that they can't understand this has nothing to do with Sony, but with crappy game developers that did a shit port.

With a patch all will be fixed.

[BuckGup]

Drop 4K support and do 1080p 60FPS across the board. Done. None of this upscaling non sense

[Dash Lambda]

1 minute ago, SamStrecker said:

Drop 4K support and do 1080p 60FPS across the board. Done. None of this upscaling non sense

No, that would be too sensible. They have to pretend their silly little machine has a friggin' Titan XP in it so that people will buy it.

It's a shame, though. They might've been able to deliver a reasonable product that did its job well.

[AshleyAshes]

19 minutes ago, Dash Lambda said:

Why is this surprising at all?

From what I've seen, it has basically the same GPU that's in the PS4, but two of them.

That's multi-GPU.

It's NOT multigpu.  A statement was misconstrued and suddenly everyone thought the PS4 Pro was in Crossfire when it wasn't.  The GPU in the PS4 Pro has the ability to disable HALF it's CUs, making the GPU identical to the classic PS4's and this enables easy backwards compatibility with PS4 games only designed for the original hardware.  It does not have two separate chips that work together, it just has the ability to make half the GPU 'go dark'.

[Mira Yurizaki]

The PS4 Pro has a different hardware configuration and more importantly, the GPU in the PS4 was a 1st gen GCN while the GPU in the PS4 Pro is a 4th gen GCN. Even though it should not matter, if there are any quirks with the 1st gen GCN that doesn't work so well because they were hacks, the 4th gen GCN may not like them.

 

There's also the fact the PS4 Pro has a different memory structure as well. Sony added 1GB of DRAM strictly for the the OS and sharing functions which leaves duck all with the 8GB.

 

Basically the PS4 Pro is not merely an upgrade in speed from the PS4. Depending on how the software was developed, it may not like it as much.

[Dash Lambda]

2 minutes ago, AshleyAshes said:

It's NOT multi-GPU.  A statement was misconstrued and suddenly everyone thought the PS4 Pro was in Crossfire when it wasn't.  The GPU in the PS4 Pro has the ability to disable HALF its CU's, making the GPU identical to the classic PS4's and this enables easy backwards compatibility with PS4 games only designed for the original hardware.  It does not have two separate chips that work together, it just has the ability to make half the GPU 'go dark'.

Ah, I guess my information is out of date then. I'll have to do more reading.

 

My secondary point about differing hardware still stands, though. Console games aren't made to accommodate something that's not that specific console, so nobody should expect the performance to immediately improve across the board. Especially not with the way consoles have been going recently, where not everything works well on them in the first place.

[AshleyAshes]

16 minutes ago, M.Yurizaki said:

The PS4 Pro has a different hardware configuration and more importantly, the GPU in the PS4 was a 1st gen GCN while the GPU in the PS4 Pro is a 4th gen GCN. Even though it should not matter, if there are any quirks with the 1st gen GCN that doesn't work so well because they were hacks, the 4th gen GCN may not like them.

 

There's also the fact the PS4 Pro has a different memory structure as well. Sony added 1GB of DRAM strictly for the the OS and sharing functions which leaves duck all with the 8GB.

 

Basically the PS4 Pro is not merely an upgrade in speed from the PS4. Depending on how the software was developed, it may not like it as much.

What on earth are you TALKING about?  Did you even watch the videos?  The make the cause of the problem exceptionally clear and they explain it out right: Some of the patched PS4 Pro games, as coded, do not run at 1080p when set to 1080p mode, they instead continue to render internally at their higher, nearly 4K resolution, and then scale the render down to 1080p.  This puts the hardware at a framerate disadvantage compared to the original hardware which has no means to render beyond 1080p.  This also only applies to SOME PS4 Pro games, as others operate differently and will truly render at 1080p rather than downscaling, and the onus on how it rendersand what options the user can select is on the developer.  It also -only- applies to PS4 Pro compatible games, games which have NOT been updated for the PS4 Pro continue to run exactly as they did on the original hardware.

 

Digital Foundry has clearly explained the problem and it's circumstances and it has nothing to do with minor variations in the hardware. It's like you didn't even watch the video but instead made a wild guess and then posted based on your wild guess.

[vorticalbox]

6 hours ago, Energycore said:

Hmm. Lower clockspeeds because of the two SoCs? That could easily be fixed in software.

they probably dropped them due to hear issues. I guess you could have it run higher when using a single soc but the other is still running and producing heat.

[Prysin]

7 hours ago, SteveGrabowski0 said:

 I'd never use DSR on my 970 to eliminate those temporal aliasing artifacts since they're pretty minor and require a ton of gpu horsepower.

which your 970 doesnt have. If you had a 1070, you could do that. Which is the difference between PS4 and Pro version.

 

you're also missing the point of the Pro. 4k TVs are getting really popular, due to relatively low cost and agressive marketing. Many people have one, and thus for a console (which 99% of the time is connected to a TV) being unable to deliver any 4K content, well, that isnt OK. Thus, the Pro adresses that issue. Thus makes sense.

 

It does however surprise me how much it struggles to keep stable framerate, i mean Sony is pretty adamant on their games having to be a smooth experience

[Bouzoo]

4 minutes ago, Prysin said:

It does however surprise me how much it struggles to keep stable framerate, i mean Sony is pretty adamant on their games having to be a smooth experience

Imo those are some of the first games to come on PRO, give it time for people to figure out how to properly make games run on new hardware. 

 

We are spitting on consoles just because they are consoles, while we have much worse situation on PC. Or have people forgotten how new, more powerful graphics cards, tend to run worse sometimes on newer titles than older cards when the games are released? 

[Prysin]

11 minutes ago, Bouzoo said:

Imo those are some of the first games to come on PRO, give it time for people to figure out how to properly make games run on new hardware. 

 

We are spitting on consoles just because they are consoles, while we have much worse situation on PC. Or have people forgotten how new, more powerful graphics cards, tend to run worse sometimes on newer titles than older cards when the games are released? 

or how a new API that is going to be the "defacto" API in 2-3 years are showing signs of fucking over the majority? (since Nvidia and intel have majorit market share)

[sof006]

Its because of the improved graphics like HDR and the fact that some games when running at 1080p are actually being rendered in 4K but then scaled down to 1080p thus the performance hit. However this is only for a few games, some games i've played (yes I own the PS4 Pro) run at 60FPS at 1080p. I was playing on Second Son on high performance mode and was hitting 60FPS consistently. Felt like I was playing a whole different game. Battlefield 1 when running at 1080p plays at a fluent 60FPS with no noticeable drops in frame rate.

 

So far I am impressed with the Pro, it is also very quiet while remaining warm to touch.

[LucidMew]

39 minutes ago, Prysin said:

you're also missing the point of the Pro. 4k TVs are getting really popular, due to relatively low cost and agressive marketing. Many people have one, and thus for a console (which 99% of the time is connected to a TV) being unable to deliver any 4K content, well, that isnt OK. Thus, the Pro adresses that issue. Thus makes sense.

 

It does however surprise me how much it struggles to keep stable framerate, i mean Sony is pretty adamant on their games having to be a smooth experience

I don't get the PS4 Pro. It's trying to deliver 4k content when it doesn't have the horsepower to do it. If you want to game at native 4k, then you'll need (approx) 4x the GPU power, which the Pro doesn't have, it has like a 2.3x iirc.

 

I understand that it's a chicken and the egg problem with 4k TV's and 4k content and whatnot, but native 4k gaming (at 60fps) is out of reach for the majority of console titles. I'm perfecly happy with the way 4k/HDR streaming works with the console, and I think gaming is the big problem with these gaming consoles.

 

If sony was so adamant on having a smooth experience, then require that every game have a 60fps option/mode. Advertise on the box saying "all of the games can run at 60 fps!". I'd much rather have that, especially at 1080p. If I select the 1080p mode on the PS4, games don't render at 1080p, instead they're rendered at whatever fraction of 4k they normally are, and then is downscalled to 1080p for some super sampling AA, which is nice and all, but not at (sub) 30fps.

 

And it sucks that some games don't even have the option of having a 1080p 60fps mode. Horizon Zero Dawn is one example, which probably is going to be a console seller too. But fuck the consumers who want a 1080p60 experience with a $400 box in the current year. I mean, fuck, Skyrim is locked to 30 fps on these guys. My HTPC can run that at 4k60. Come on.

[Prysin]

1 minute ago, LucidMew said:

I don't get the PS4 Pro. It's trying to deliver 4k content when it doesn't have the horsepower to do it. If you want to game at native 4k, then you'll need (approx) 4x the GPU power, which the Pro doesn't have, it has like a 2.3x iirc.

 

I understand that it's a chicken and the egg problem with 4k TV's and 4k content and whatnot, but native 4k gaming (at 60fps) is out of reach for the majority of console titles. I'm perfecly happy with the way 4k/HDR streaming works with the console, and I think gaming is the big problem with these gaming consoles.

 

If sony was so adamant on having a smooth experience, then require that every game have a 60fps option/mode. Advertise on the box saying "all of the games can run at 60 fps!". I'd much rather have that, especially at 1080p. If I select the 1080p mode on the PS4, games don't render at 1080p, instead they're rendered at whatever fraction of 4k they normally are, and then is downscalled to 1080p for some super sampling AA, which is nice and all, but not at (sub) 30fps.

 

And it sucks that some games don't even have the option of having a 1080p 60fps mode. Horizon Zero Dawn is one example, which probably is going to be a console seller too. But fuck the consumers who want a 1080p60 experience with a $400 box in the current year. I mean, fuck, Skyrim is locked to 30 fps on these guys. My HTPC can run that at 4k60. Come on.

unfortunatly, your argument is based on PC performance. Consoles are far too optimized and has faaaaar more tricks in order to perform.

i dare say 2/3rds of the tricks consoles use to boost performance WONT work on PC, because there is too many variations of hardware to guarantee that it works.

Then there is the checkerboarding method that Sony has patented. This is FAAAAR better then any supersampling we have on PC atm. I mean FAR better. It uses way less power and delivers way better result.

 

As for hardware, the specs of the PS4 Pro is higher then that of a GTX 980. We all know that a GTX 980 can run 4k content if you drop settings to medium. Now imagine a GTX 980 with extremely optimized drivers and game settings. That is what the PS4 Pro is. And damn that is a lot of "juice" for a console, you are basically getting a gaming system for the price of a high end used 980/Fury too. That is impressive. Credits where credits due.

 

as for the 60FPS "forced" mode. its overrated. 30 vs 60. i used to play BF3 and BF4 on PS3/4. I now play BF1 at PC (60Hz monitor, 100+ FPS at 3440x1440p). I know there is a difference, i CAN see it. BUT!!!!
It does NOTHING for my gameplay, it does NOTHING for my experience ingame, it does NOTHING to hinder me at playing the game at my best. Why? why does it not matter?

Because the servers and your ping is always the bigger obstacle in online FPS games.

People talk about ghosting, oh the ghosting. It's not ghosting that causes you to miss, its the inability to lead the reticule according to the target. Iv'e seen ghosting myself, iv'e seen ghosting in videos, each and every time, the "ghost" is so weak, that if you aim for that ghost, you're a moron, you should always aim ahead of the target. And if you still miss, you STILL DIDNT AIM CORRECTLY.

It's called "skill". Either you have it, or you improve it, or you fuck off and play something else. And i am so sick and tired of people, especially on PC side, spending so much time, and effort and energy in creating bullshit excuses for why they get their ass handed to em. They simply suck, and no amount og hardware is going to fix that.

/endrant

 

Horizon Zero Dawn has since day one been a Playstation EXCLUSIVE. Dunno which part of that you thought would change.

 

Some games, i dare say a lot of games, have ZERO benefit of 60FPS. Why? because the animations is so shit and sluggish in the first place that no matter the FPS, it's still rubbish. Skyrim is THE best example. Actually, Bethesda games collectively is the best example. Iv'e modded the shit outta skyrim, we are talking 250+ graphical, technical and animation mods. I played skyrim at 40-60FPS with 2k, 4k and 8k textures mixed together to create the best experience for me. And still, still the animations, despite having gotten new skeletons, new animations, havoc physics and all that yadda yadda to work, it still didnt look any better then the videos on youtube showing console vs PC.

 

You know what is causing the bottleneck? The horrid engine that bethesda keeps regurgitating every other game. They have their old ancient dust-pile of a engine, they tweak it and reuse it. Rinse and repeat for a decade. That shit is unfit for modern games. It was made for consoles and give you no better experience at PC.

 

The whole argument against consoles is retarded, and this comes from a guy who owns a gaming PC that is far faster then what most people on this forum has, and certainly a magnitude of order faster then what the majority of PC gamers has. Hell, my PC is over 6 times faster then the average PC based on steam surveys.... that is sad, because my experience on my PC isnt 6 times better then my PS4.

[Doobeedoo]

Oh, ok well then. 

Ugh, if only game devs mainly make games for PC first, port it to console.