Jagged Shadows,Pop in,Low LOD and jagged aa

[Harsh45]

Here is ultra, and then low preset on bf1,  other than one being lighter than the other, it’s identical.

[zuburaika]

On 3/29/2018 at 10:23 PM, k4bn said:

Please read the thread before posting. Most cases of aliasing and appropriate types of anti-aliasing have already been thoroughly explained.

Ok link me this than. I ve used all different kinds of aliasing in amd settings but they all suck and the problem persists

[k4bn]

14 hours ago, zuburaika said:

Ok link me this than. I ve used all different kinds of aliasing in amd settings but they all suck and the problem persists

It seems that you are mostly concerned with temporal aliasing(shown in 0:27 here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_V8bBLcbRIs for example) Use this to reduce it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8scOOiAvyj8 if driver supersampling isn't working. You can read my older posts about this sort of stuff and there's useful stuff in here http://naturalviolence.webs.com/generalaa.htm

 

 

[KarathKasun]

I wonder if any of this has to do with the Windows 10 timer bug that causes the clock to run faster or slower than real time.  Many graphics algos would be thrown off with a skewed timer source.

[xquizt]

On 3/29/2018 at 4:23 PM, k4bn said:

Please read the thread before posting. Most cases of aliasing and appropriate types of anti-aliasing have already been thoroughly explained.

Please stop posting in this thread, All you're doing is derailing it and offering solutions that have nothing to do with the problem. Even with all anti-aliasing features on default in nvidia control panel and anti-aliasing off in games, your pc should still provide a level of AA. The problem people are having is as if AA as a whole doesnt work whatsoever for any game. Making all fine lines and edges flicker and shimmer REALLY BADLY. It's distracting and ruins immersion. This is not how it should be, considering I can go on my friends PC's and they don't have to add any additional AA methods and their games look how mine once did. 

[k4bn]

6 hours ago, xquizt said:

Please stop posting in this thread, All you're doing is derailing it and offering solutions that have nothing to do with the problem. Even with all anti-aliasing features on default in nvidia control panel and anti-aliasing off in games, your pc should still provide a level of AA. The problem people are having is as if AA as a whole doesnt work whatsoever for any game. Making all fine lines and edges flicker and shimmer REALLY BADLY. It's distracting and ruins immersion. This is not how it should be, considering I can go on my friends PC's and they don't have to add any additional AA methods and their games look how mine once did. 

Hello and welcome back to the thread. Please re-read my previous posts, you seem to be be confused on what AA is and how it works. As for your friend, please post some gameplay footage showing that. Although, honestly that wouldn't really prove anything because you can still set SGSSAA x4+ and AA off in-game and "rig" your proof just to prove your point. Also, please consider that you may not have the same problem as some people in this thread. You mention that AA doesn't work for any game, but a lot of people are claiming that temporal anti-aliasing solves the "problem". That's partially correct, but even the "best" TAA methods don't work on all types of aliasing, for example: 

left side is TAA + triangle-geometry, right side is TAA + raytrace and jitter, but it's basically a custom shader for this particular surface

 

[lordante]

Bla bla bla...

I suggested since long to stop to read k4bn post :D.

He is just here to fill he is the savior, and, he is not.

BTW Ryzen build solved lot of trouble but not all. My bush trouble on WoT are totally gone, and Elder scroll goes better too.

Some games are still impacted, i even managed to reproduce the strange circle aliasing.

I just don't play the impacted games, AND, i test all game in BETA or even illegaly before purchase, this way, i have no bad surprise.

So actually, only FF14 is a big no for me, all other games are fine, and i will not download tons of games to check them all

[xquizt]

Here is a video of the issue, despite any AA setting used in-game or in nvidia control panel, every game is riddled with aliasing/jaggies

 

[lordante]

This is really hard on some games, like war thunder.

Secret world too.

[xquizt]

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/anti-aliasing-not-working-for-any-game-on-my-pc.232367/

[lordante]

Trust me it is not ground.

I have  a powercleaner with battery. So, i tested, and NO.

The last think i will try is the type of screen i have, but, only when i fill the need to buy a new 4K screen.

I think it is a mix of software and hardware, something must block somewhere, but, without professional, you will never know.


As long as the trouble is not impacting enough people, they will do nothing.

BTW, i changed ALL my setup. EVEN AMD and INTEL made me a cahsback because they don't know what's going on. They don't know, but they are not arguing their is nothing, they accepted to cashback after my multiple test (asked by them) and videos.

All i know is: Ryzen CPU did better, i don't know why. Since all is new (GPU was not, so, i don't think it is GPU related only), mother board too (even if with intel i changed all parts too).

The only try worth it: Buy a Ryzen, it is better but do not clear it all.

[lordante]

For BF1:
 

i allready post it. FX is not working!

And old wot video:
 

 

[k4bn]

The aliasing in the last few videos is mostly due to negative LOD bias and alpha testing, this has already been discussed.

 

I don't play PUBG, but this video seems to explain it all: 

 

 

Check out 1:43 for example, "Ultra AA" also has a lot of aliasing, so it's probably just the game. You can't change LOD bias in dx10+ if the dev chooses to prevent driver overrides, so best thing you can do is try out what I already mentioned in one of my posts. However, most dx10+ games don't allow you to do that, so the only thing left is probably just supersampling the game. Your 1080 should have no problem with that.

http://naturalviolence.webs.com/lodbias.htm

[xquizt]

5 hours ago, k4bn said:

The aliasing in the last few videos is mostly due to negative LOD bias and alpha testing, this has already been discussed.

 

I don't play PUBG, but this video seems to explain it all: 

 

 

Check out 1:43 for example, "Ultra AA" also has a lot of aliasing, so it's probably just the game. You can't change LOD bias in dx10+ if the dev chooses to prevent driver overrides, so best thing you can do is try out what I already mentioned in one of my posts. However, most dx10+ games don't allow you to do that, so the only thing left is probably just supersampling the game. Your 1080 should have no problem with that.

http://naturalviolence.webs.com/lodbias.htm

The thing is though, even with my AA settings on Ultra in PUBG, it still displays all the flickering as if its on Low. This is pretty much the issue in every game I play. No matter how much I apply added levels of AA, it still displays flickering as if it's not on at all. I also remember when I didnt have to apply any levels of added AA and my games looked smooth with no flickering? Also, even older games that I used to play years ago that always looked smooth and good are now riddled with jaggies and flickering. I feel like something is preventing my PC from rendering any form of AA at all. 

[k4bn]

9 hours ago, xquizt said:

The thing is though, even with my AA settings on Ultra in PUBG, it still displays all the flickering as if its on Low. This is pretty much the issue in every game I play. No matter how much I apply added levels of AA, it still displays flickering as if it's not on at all. I also remember when I didnt have to apply any levels of added AA and my games looked smooth with no flickering? Also, even older games that I used to play years ago that always looked smooth and good are now riddled with jaggies and flickering. I feel like something is preventing my PC from rendering any form of AA at all. 

Can you record gameplay footage of a game that actually has good anti-aliasing where it should be very easy to notice the difference? Like Fortnite for example, I remember that lordante was able to get the game approx. 90% clean with "Ultra" anti-aliasing, compared to "Low", which had a lot of aliasing. If you decide to do that, make sure to record changing the different AA settings and recording the differences, or lack thereof.

[lordante]

Blablabla...

Allready did the LOD trick, on AMD and Nvidia by the way.

I allready said it... 50 times?


Fortnite trouble is not aliasing at all, it is the flickering on edge. Like someone else shown on minecraft.

The fact is those edges desapears only with TAA, and not all are gone, it depends of the game.

And, most important, on another computer, it doesn't look the same.


BTW WoT just got a new "graphic" change. I see the grass poping 10 meters of the tank... It is just really boring.

 

 

[k4bn]

1 hour ago, lordante said:

Blablabla...

Allready did the LOD trick, on AMD and Nvidia by the way.

I allready said it... 50 times?


Fortnite trouble is not aliasing at all, it is the flickering on edge. Like someone else shown on minecraft.

The fact is those edges desapears only with TAA, and not all are gone, it depends of the game.

And, most important, on another computer, it doesn't look the same.


BTW WoT just got a new "graphic" change. I see the grass poping 10 meters of the tank... It is just really boring.

 

 

The "flickering on edge" is due to negative LOD/mip bias. Negative bias with TAA emulates supersampling for textures and gives you 2x AF for free, it essentially converges to temporal supersampling. Like when you do 8x SGSSAA, the driver usually does auto-LOD adjustment to -1.5 LOD bias(you had to set these values manually in the good old days), this compensates for the blur of the SGSSAA. Similar thing happens here, this is basically why TAA is used with negative LOD/mip bias and gives such a nice result both in Fortnite and in the BF1 example with the alpha tested negative bias shimmering foliage. And yes, TAA is implemented differently in different video games. It doesn't 100% remove aliasing itself and sometimes it doesn't even work on some types of aliasing(above example with moire pattern).

 

The point is, xquizt says that changing AA settings doesn't make a difference in any game, so apparently he doesn't have the same "problem" that you have, because clearly TAA works for you in this particular instance.

 

[KarathKasun]

Flickering edges in MC and other games can be caused by forcing the texture filtering mode from the driver.  In MC for example, forcing 16x AF causes texture corruption along the edges of the cubes in many cases.

 

[lordante]

4 hours ago, KarathKasun said:

Flickering edges in MC and other games can be caused by forcing the texture filtering mode from the driver.  In MC for example, forcing 16x AF causes texture corruption along the edges of the cubes in many cases.

 

I allready tested all change one by one.

On Nvidia and AMD.

The fact is: i got jaggy edge, friends do not.


BUT lot of shimmering was stopped when i change from intel CPU too AMD CPU. But not all the edge.

[KarathKasun]

2 hours ago, lordante said:

I allready tested all change one by one.

On Nvidia and AMD.

The fact is: i got jaggy edge, friends do not.


BUT lot of shimmering was stopped when i change from intel CPU too AMD CPU. But not all the edge.

Ive got AMD and Intel systems side by side on my desk with no IQ differences (two desktops and a veritable fleet of laptops).  If you see a difference its likely down to user level or firmware level misconfiguration.

[WkdPaul]

Thread cleaned.

[k4bn]

Props to xquizt for making a PUBG comparison with his friend! https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/anti-aliasing-not-working-for-any-game-on-my-pc.232367/page-3#post-3829357

@xquizt Even though the aliasing in this example is technically "normal", it doesn't mean that it should remain that way. The 1080 has a lot of extra GPU power on 1080p and you should be able to force a higher level of supersampling to reduce aliasing to a minimum. MrBonk's post on temporal aliasing summarizes this very well. https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/which-anti-aliasing-reduces-temporal-aliasing.394462/

 

Note that I don't play PUBG, so I'm not sure how temporally stable the game is on higher levels of OGSSAA/DSR.

 

 

Edited April 17, 2018 by wkdpaul

[lordante]

BTW:

Things that works a litttle for flickering edge:

DSR, in 4K it is a lot better.
TAA, lot better too.
Vulkan API <-- best! If you can switch to Vulkan in a game, do it!

Both are working but do not make the trouble desappears.

Thing that work for shimmering texture:

Changed for Ryzen CPU.
Ground and bush stopped shimmering on lot of game: WoT, ESO, Warship (ground = water in this case) THIS IS CONFIRMED BY THE FIRST FIND WE HAVE ON THIS: someone changed for Ryzen and he saw instantly a better texture (or something), THIS IS IN THE THREAD!!!! And i can confirm it.

All other things didn't work:

 

LOD, i tricked the lod step by step on Nvidia. Nothing changed (i mean for our troubles, i can make the game ugly, for sure, no more flickering, and, no more games because it looks like a aquarelle!). For AMD it is a bit harder, but the regedit i did to force lod did nothing too.
Hardware change, for flickering edge, did not work.
Clean instalation, doesn't work.
Searching for DX, openGL and other stuff = I don't know. All i try to improve did not work. The fact is, no OpenGL got the trouble, but i have only one game running it now (the other stopped it)

FINALY:

 

I got refund from AMD (GPU) And Intel (CPU) because they can't find what's wrong. They did not deny i have something not working.

They asked for me several test. AMD gpu was accepted FAST, because flickering was hard on the benchmark software.

Intel asked TONS of benchmark, they even forced me to change GPU, to check memory etc etc... They can't say what was wrong, and can't say it was not the CPU, so they refunded.

GPU was 1 year and half old, i traded it for a rX 580.
CPU was 6 month old, i got a full refund, FULL, even the discount was refund!

*redacted*

 

PS, the strange case:

The trouble occurs on console too. People repported changing TV and cables did nothing. One reported going to a friend house, it stop flickering, back to home it comebacks... Then he took friend tv and consol to his home, all where flickering. With same TV. I don't know howmuch we can trust this, i just add it to the know things.

Someone got the trouble on WoW. He tries lot of thing, and finaly take his HDD with WoW to a friend. It was flickering, since, the friend did not have the trouble before, he removed the HDD and put back his own: no flickering. They were really disappointed so they put the two HDD on same computer and then launch two times WoW, one was flickering, the other, wasn't. Same, read this ONCE, and i did try HDD/SSD change.

Lot of people reported this with Playstation. I noticed it on PSP, since my PSP is cracked, and, i saw it on only one game, i don't take this for a general trouble.

People saw it on TV. I saw it too, sometimes flickering is here, especialy on linear object. I was wondering if it can be because of the numeric video... I don't know, i know nothing  in video.

My wife see it on TV too, she doesn't until i say "look there".

Firends see it on my computer screen, no need to say look at this. They see it as soon as i start to move camera in games.

 

Edited April 17, 2018 by wkdpaul

[KaioS]

Hi guys, how are you ?

 

I'm new here, i have created an account only for this FUCKING problem. You can't know how crazy it makes me.

 

First of all, excuse my english.. it's not my native language

 

So, i know what i will say sound, maybe, extraordinary but i will say you : i'm 80% sure that i know the cause of the problem. For many users the problem seems to have started during a modding/testing session of enb's / SweetFX. For me, i'm 100% sure the problem starting during a testing session of enb's on skyrim special edition. 

 

After all, let me explain you how my shimmering/flickering textures started ( sorry for the fine print, its a copy paste from another forum ) : I was testing some enb's on Skyrim Special Edition, everything is fine, beautiful etc.. until i open the game to test an enb and at this moment, BOOM, everything on the screen is shimmering like hell. Especially the grass/trees. But not like a lack of AA, its different. But you all know what i'm talking about anyway. I was thinking this is an enb problem so I uninstal the enb and re-open the game, but no, everything is shimmering again. So i reinstall totally the game, but nothing happen.. the visual bug is here. So i decided to look into an another game, i open total war warhammer 2 ( that i already finish, so i know exactly how the game normally look ) and BOOM every textures is '' raw '', is shimmering, flickering..

 

So. I explain, more or less, the cause of the problem in an nvidia forum. My pseudo is '' Kaio s '' and my messages is in the last page ( 110 ). https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/831430/geforce-900-series/pixelated-shadows-texture-popins-gtx-960-970-980-ect-/110/

 

I think, honestly, that we do not all have exactly the same problem. Some people have just a problem with the shadows/lod, others with some shimmering/flickering edges all over the screen, some with the combo pack premium shadows/lod/shimmering/flickering/popin/raw textures ... BUT all of this problem, or at least a large majority of people here, is caused by the same cause. For me, i have a problem with a big shimmering/flickering textures, and I repeat : i know what is the cause of that.

 

Also, i'm 200% sure it's not an electrical problem, or hardware. I'm 200% sure that's software related. This is a very good thing. I explain why i'm sure in the nvidia forum.

 

I will try to fix the problem here, because the nvidia forum seems to be dead.. unfortunately. But you can post some message in the forum to try to resurrect it and get more people interested in this problem, because even if i'm 80/90% sure that i know the cause of the problem i do not have the skills ( need to farm more to get more exp ) to fix it, i'm not a professional i'm just an humble gamer... 

 

So, take a look to what i say in the nvidia forum, and let me know what you think about this.

 

Second part : I had a little discussion with Boris Vorontsov, the creator of ENBSeries, on outlook. I will copy paste the discussion that i had with him to let you know exactly what he say. Maybe we can go ahead with all of that information that me and Boris say. I will create a second post for the discussion because its a bit long.

 

Thanks you all for your efforts in order to try to understand what's going on.

[KaioS]

Hello Boris,

 

Apologize my english, its not my native language.

 

 

First of all I would like to thank you for all your efforts to provide a quality work, very sincerely.

 

 

So, as the title said, many people encounter a problem that is game breaking. But i will try to present you the problem from a personal point of view. It would be great if you were interested in this and if possible explain to me what is wrong, because hundreds or more people are affected by this issue and nobody know what happening. But i'ill start by explaining to you what i know about this problem, at my eyes.

 

This concern not only Skyrim but also many others games, and I think just games who use a mipmapping technique, i will explain you why I think that.

Symptoms is flickering/shimmering effect on textures, especially on the vegetations, low resolutions of shadows ( to the point that the shadows is pixelated even at the highest settings ), low draw distance lod, exaggerate and abnormal pop in. Here a link to a nvidia forum who have more than 110 pages and litteraly no response from an nvidia agent ( this is a safe link, really ) : https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/831430/geforce-900-series/pixelated-shadows-texture-popins-gtx-960-970-980-ect-/105/

As you can see, many people encounter this issue. My comments is in the last page ( 110 ), my username on this forum is '' kaio s ''.

 

Also here a video of Skyrim who clearly show the issue, its much much more prononced in our screen than in a youtube video but even in a video its visible ( again, this is a youtube video, this is a safe link ) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zn-DqpcMcCU

 

For me, this issue started when i was trying some enb's on Skyrim Special Edition just like a lot of other people, but i will come back on this point right after. If you look some videos that people from the nvidia forum have posted you can clearly see the exaggerated flickering/shimmering textures ( especially on trees/grass/shadows ). On my 2 videos, from the nvidia forum, its hard to see because the videos are compressing 2 times ( one times from the record, second time from youtube ) but it's still visible. This flickering is normal, but only if the textures is not injected by the mipmapping technique. Not all games use this mipmapping technique, this is why not all games is affected by this issue and that's why it reinforces the fact that i think the problem come from the mipmap. For exemple, Skyrim is affected just like total war warhammer 2, but assassin's creed origins is not affected. That's because assassin's creed origins use another techniques, related to the filtering textures, than skyrim and total war warhammer 2.

 

First of all, I absolutely not incriminate you, that is me and other peoples who have surely done something wrong and clearly not you ! I know, you tell yourself it's not your concern and i understand that. But that's not totally true. As I said : this issue starting, for me and other peoples, when I was testing some enb's on skyrim ( Special Edition for me, but normal edition for others ). One time, when i open the game, all the grass/trees/fences/shadows are flickering/shimmering abnormally. And this shimmering/flickering is still here even after the total uninstal of enb's. Even after the uninstal of Skyrim. Even after a ressettlement of windows. And this problem has settled in many other games, but as i explained above it's not in all games.

 

This shimmering/flickering on textures when the scene is moving is exactly how a textures look when it is not injected by the mipmapping technique. Here an interresting thing : the description of your ENBSeries v.0262 is '' Added parameters to control mipmapping lod bias ''. It is not a coincidence, because this issue starting when i was testing some enb's, so different ENBSeries.

So, logically for me, we/i have done something wrong with your enb and that as corrupted/controlled something in our software who now control this parameter ( mipmap lod bias ) over our drivers and create this issue. Honestly i am almost 100% sure. In any case, for me and for all those for whom this problem begin when testing some enb.

 

To complete this long message, i insist that the problem as begun because of us and i do not incriminate your job, on the contrary i used your enb for a very long times without any worriess.

 

Thanks yo... blablablabla

 

------------------------------------------------------ Here Boris's answer ( unfortunately he doesn't not really want to be interested by this problem, but there is still some important information, i think ) 

 

 

Hi

First of all, lod bias parameter is made in old Skyrim, not in Skyrim SE. Everything mod do is applied to game only, it is not some driver setting or something like that. Second, users have read wrong things in guide how to setup ENBSeries properly, they disable anisotropic filtering together with antialiasing, while anisotropy should be set to maximal value which game allow. In Skyrim there are bugs when some objects do not have anisotropic filtering enabled, but do have mipmapping, that's why i made parameter which force anisotropic filtering in enblocal.ini. Anisotropic filtering itself work with mipmapped textures, same as trilinear filtering, while without mipmapped textures (f.e. some modded texture packs) only bilinear and point filtering available. The bug which you describe (if i understood) is point filtering for minification, which at least give good performance compared to bilinear if mipmaps do not exist. You can force mipmaps in NVidia Control Panel, but it is only work for DX9 applications and below, because DX10+ require precise data often and any tweaks by the driver may corrupt important data, like physics of particles on gpu or some other things game developers do and need to have precise results, not something blurred because of drivers. Shadows on the video of GTA5 is another story, totally different issue and not a bug, it is how they are made by developers. If you would see old Skyrim, it also have this problem, but i fixing it by using another filtering code. Anyway, i dont know what to tell you, except this information, which is useless on practice. It is not NVidia fault, it is game developers fault.

 

---------------------------------------------------

 

That's it. You know all guys. Thank you for your patiente to reade these long messages. Let me know what you think about all of that. Friendly ! 

Edited April 17, 2018 by MEC-777
Fixed font colour for night theme users.