Jagged Shadows,Pop in,Low LOD and jagged aa

[lordante]

Anyway, i I see it on TV. I really think it is not only computer related. (i'm talking about the edge lines who make  lights when you move).

So...

What do have in common, a TV + video box, and a computer? May be something wrong in the way they encode the video?

Did someone try a real analogic video like VGA? I can't, because new GPU don't have anymore analogic VGA, i need something to "translate" hdmi to VGA.

Remember Ryzen fixed some troubles for me in WoT for example.

[PolishGamer]

I bought 3 months ago new PC and monitor.

Gtx 1060 6gb xtreme edition from gigabyte , i5-7600k, windows 10, corsair vengeance 16gb 3000mhz, z270 k3 gaming gigabyte, toshiba p300 and adata su800 128gb , system power corsair 600w and monitor with 144hz 1980x1080 native resolution and what? i saw the same problem like people from this forum, flickering and jagged lines. Jagged lines arent worst more then flickering - idk how people with epilepsy can play with this..

 

In my old pc i dont have that issue gtx 760 windows 7 and i5-4590+ monitor with  native resolution 1440x900 19 size.

 

Its a freaky shit i asked a question about that to nvidia support.. next time i just buy amd graphic and processor or console.... 

 

 

[Jeki155550]

Hello everyone. Looking for this issue I came across this forum where people actually agree and acknowledge this as a general issue, not related to a single game or ingame setting. So yeah, I have these issues too. Pretty much all the ones listed from you guys. Bad shadows, bad antialising, bad anisotropic, bad draw distance, lag spikes in every games etc etc. And I have this extra one where alot of games will change my monitor contrast. Usually when I Alt+Tab, or close certain games everything becomes darker so I have to always go into nvidia control panel and switch screen resolutions in order to bring back the defaul contrast. 
-My experience with this issue started when my old gtx 970 started acting funny. The card had a sensor for when to spin fans, so sometimes they wouldn't start spinning when playing a game so the card would reach high temps and crash my pc. It happened alot of times actually. At some point the card would reach 80°C, everytime I opened a game. It didn't matter what game, as soon as I opened it gpu temp would go to 80°C, even with both fans spinning. So I guess something fried or I dono. But now I have a GTX 1080, and I have no issues with temperatures, but all the artifacts this thread talks about. Playing battlefield 1 i reach 150fps, but the game stutters alot. It hurts inside  Now I don't know if the issue is the card... My suspicion is that it is a cpu related thing.

-What I have noticed from all games is that inside the invisibie box around your character everything is fine. Out of that box, everything is not fine. It's like something it's stopping all the effects to actually work... So on top of the artifacts, the effects don't actually do anything. Gpu, CPu or the OS seem to not want to care about those stuff, for some reason. And not finding the reason is driving me crazy. Until now things that I have tried and didn't work are -New Gpu -New Ram Sticks -Different OS -Different Drivers. Now the only parts to testare CPU, PSU, and MOBO. And my suspicion is either CPU 80% or PSU 20% of the fault. It's crazy how common this thing is and still there is no explenation to it. Please if you have news about how to fix it, let us know  

[lordante]

Lol and someone here will say something about "it is normal ya know, it's in your head"...

The guy just have the new and the old computer, and one is fine, the other is not... It's a kind of magic!

(yes two songs in one post  )

PS: stop to buy stuff, it is software related, AMD CPU fixed some little flickering in some games (WoT), but not a lot, and the crazy lines are still here.

 

[k4bn]

4 hours ago, lordante said:

Lol and someone here will say something about "it is normal ya know, it's in your head"...

The guy just have the new and the old computer, and one is fine, the other is not... It's a kind of magic!

(yes two songs in one post  )

PS: stop to buy stuff, it is software related, AMD CPU fixed some little flickering in some games (WoT), but not a lot, and the crazy lines are still here.

 

Welcome back to the thread, lordante! I advise you to re-read some of my posts. I've already covered temporal/shader/alpha test/specular aliasing, or this supposed "flickering" that you seem to be confused about. If you think any of the info I mentioned was incorrect, prove me wrong. 

Have a good day.

@Jeki155550 You posted Witcher 3 and GTA V gameplay in the other thread. Those games have inherent problems that I've already explained in my posts. This is something that most of the users in this thread agree upon. Test out the games that I suggested with the settings I mentioned in one of my last posts to see if you have any actual issues.

For those games in particular : https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comments/37f6wn/gta_5s_antialiasing_is_crap_heres_how_to_improve/ 

and https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/5h8rxs/the_comprehensive_guide_to_antialiasing_getting/

 

[Kelven]

This problem is not unique to Nvidia video cards, I have an AMD RX470 and I have the problem,
I discovered that by modifying Lod bias in regedit and leaving the game in window with the taskbar appearing, it slightly lessens this problem ...

[Jeki155550]

@k4bn Bro, trust me I played both games for like 100hours each, with my old card and both games looked amazing. Even with a less powerful card like the 970 i had no issues whatsoever. The only normal thing was the low draw distance on witcher 3 wich is how the game engine works. I play alot of games and I notice the difference. It's not gta or withcer 3 only...it's every game. I'v been reading this forum and I notced you really can't grasp the fact that this is an actual issue...

For instance, I was testing a game today and when setting it to fullscreen I would get the effect you can see from the images below. THe weird thing about it is that capture programs like fraps or shadowplay don't record the artifact...so I had to take pics with my phone. I'v played this game before when my pc used to work just fine and didn't get this whatsoever. Also there is this old mouse glith thingy that happened on steam, still haven't figured out what it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrpezR1XVZA

It behaves like the pics I sad before, so the video is from a phone. Bottom line, the issue that bothers me the most is the stuttering in everygame, and my bet is that If I manage to fix that all the rest will go away bcs everything is connected. You can deny the issue...but I don't see why you would. It's obvious for people who have it and it isn't for pople who don't have it. My 2 cents...

 

img1

Spoiler

 

img 2

Spoiler

 

[Jeki155550]

The links from reddit you posted are not the "Norm"... I used tho play both games like what they try to achieve there, without having to any of that so not sure what's going on there. Maybe those poeple had the same issue we have. For instance, the witcher 3 tutorial on reddit says to modify some numbers, but those numbers are deffault in the game files so there is no need to do that...And all the ridiculous Enb stuff i don't want to ge into it...

[k4bn]

4 hours ago, Jeki155550 said:

The links from reddit you posted are not the "Norm"... I used tho play both games like what they try to achieve there, without having to any of that so not sure what's going on there. Maybe those poeple had the same issue we have. For instance, the witcher 3 tutorial on reddit says to modify some numbers, but those numbers are deffault in the game files so there is no need to do that...And all the ridiculous Enb stuff i don't want to ge into it...

Lol, you seriously need to re-read some of my posts. Those last 2 screenshots may be driver related or something interfering in driver software, they aren't related to this thread. Anyway, until you get this sorted, you can literally turn on 4k DSR in both of those games since you have a decent rig. It should eliminate the aliasing almost completely. It's hard to diagnose this sort of stuff because the aliasing is normal itself. What isn't normal is if anti-aliasing isn't working correctly. This is the issue for most users here, from what I understand. This is why I asked you to test out the games that I recommended, since they should be more temporally stable compared to TW3 and GTA V. 

 

Games are INSIDE(built-in TAA), DOOM(forward and deferred mix, TSSAA), Obduction(Epic/Unreal TAA), Alias Isolation mod(deferred, TAA), The Witness(forward, MSAA), Killing Floor(forward, MSAA).

Use at least 4 samples of MSAA in the last two games. Again, KF uses alpha testing in some instances, so those may still be aliased, rest should be stable. MSAA works only on geometry anyway, those games are mostly geometry and scaled alpha to coverage among other things.

 

Link for Alias Isolation mod: 

Here's a comparison of DOOM's AA in a complex scene, so you can check if the AA solutions are working correctly for you. This may be in a different resolution, so results may vary slightly, but it's still a useful reference point. 

 

Edited December 4, 2017 by k4bn

[jinx33]

You keep on going TW3 and GTA 5, while 95% of my Steam library (pretty much games without TAA) is full of aliasing. This and everything else. It is not driver related.

Gotta motivate myself tonight to install OBS and record AC II or Black Flag for few minutes since i play those two actually, aliasing might not be that obvious to notice, but drawing distance and shadows will be.

 

Since you ask many users to read back your posts, try to find one of mine where I show a recording of The Witcher 2. And you better not tell me the pop-in is a normal issue in this game, because i played it 200+ hoursI and I can tell that something went wrong.

[k4bn]

55 minutes ago, jinx33 said:

You keep on going TW3 and GTA 5, while 95% of my Steam library (pretty much games without TAA) is full of aliasing. This and everything else. It is not driver related.

Gotta motivate myself tonight to install OBS and record AC II or Black Flag for few minutes since i play those two actually, aliasing might not be that obvious to notice, but drawing distance and shadows will be.

 

Since you ask many users to read back your posts, try to find one of mine where I show a recording of The Witcher 2. And you better not tell me the pop-in is a normal issue in this game, because i played it 200+ hoursI and I can tell that something went wrong.

I made a whole post specifically on The Witcher 2. If you mean that a game is temporally stable 100%, then yes, that sounds about right if you are only using the in-game AA and most of your games are using deferred. AA that works specifically in motion is basically any form of downsampling/supersampling or TAA/TXAA. Other than that, there's SMAA with temporal filters(usually something like SMAA T1x or T2x) and MSAA will work on geometry as usual. SMAA T1X and T2X aren't that good unless you are using a 4k resolution or above. Then it may have a similar effect to some TAA/TXAA solutions on 1080p. Although, INSIDE's temporal reprojection AA and Unreal's temporal supersampling are exceptions in this case, so this doesn't apply for them. They are a lot more advanced and better at taking care of aliasing if tweaked properly(also, less blurring if the dev uses better filters with negative lobes). If the game is constructed well, there is no need for TAA(i.e using forward rendering with scaled alpha to coverage in The Witness). There aren't many games that are made with such care though, unfortunately.

 

I'll take a look at the videos later, most users are reporting anti-aliasing problems, so I'm mostly focusing on that in my posts.
 

Most of the games in your library can be anti-aliased properly if you are able to force some supersampling or downsampling. Supersampling in particular can be a beast.

Also, I found a great video of another extreme example of a terribly made game(well, the graphics part of the game at least). Supersampling absolutely destroys every form of aliasing in it without a problem. From what I understand, the "no AA" was recorded in 720p, so some of the temporal/shader aliasing and moire is even more pronounced. So yeah, another game if someone wants to test if supersampling is working properly at least, and compare it to their own results. Apparently there's a link for an uncompressed video for comparison. Haven't downloaded it myself though, so use at your own risk.
 

 

[Jeki155550]

Man you seem to not understand or is it me not undertstanding. It doesn't matter what filter I use. It doesn't work bcs something stops any effect from working. I know you are trying to help, but you keep beating a dead horse. Aliasing is only 1 of the issues. Performance is another importand one, and no filter is gonna fix it. Now you maye say, it is a good temporary fix for aliasing, but I'm more curious to know what causes the issue. When my games used to worked as they should I never had the need to look for stuff like this bcs the game would look perfectly fine, aliasing included. At this point this thread seems dead...It would be nice to hear from people who had the issue like 1 year ago, and if they managed to fix it and if, HOW.

[k4bn]

Just now, Jeki155550 said:

Man you seem to not understand or is it me not undertstanding. It doesn't matter what filter I use. It doesn't work bcs something stops any effect from working. I know you are trying to help, but you keep beating a dead horse. Aliasing is only 1 of the issues. Performance is another importand one, and no filter is gonna fix it. Now you maye say, it is a good temporary fix for aliasing, but I'm more curious to know what causes the issue. When my games used to worked as they should I never had the need to look for stuff like this bcs the game would look perfectly fine, aliasing included. At this point this thread seems dead...It would be nice to hear from people who had the issue like 1 year ago, and if they managed to fix it and if, HOW.

Haha, sorry for that, let me explain. You don't use the filters, the developers need to use them in development.

Aliasing is the most talked issue, I don't think that the other users mentioned any performance issues, which is why I'm saying is that this is probably unrelated.
Depends on what you mean by "the issue". Normally, you can take care of most of the types of aliasing by using the anti-aliasing methods that I've mentioned in my last post. If your issue is that anti-aliasing doesn't work(by that I mean, it absolutely does nothing), then I'm not sure what causes it if it isn't a bad GPU/driver or game engine doesn't let driver software overrides.

 

If the issue is a whole plethora of performance and graphical issues, then I'm clueless unfortunately. Usually these can all be fixed by a fresh OS install/game reinstall, unless it is a bug in the actual game/software.
I haven't seen any of these issues in the games you recorded however, apart from the already known shader/temporal aliasing that is inherent in those video games.

 

The only weird part about your posts is that you claim that you didn't have any aliasing whatsoever before. This might be because:

1. You didn't notice it before.

2. As lordante would say, magic happened and you are suddenly seeing all this aliasing, shadow issues etc.

 

If the reason is 2. I'm going to need proof of any actual gameplay that is using the same settings that you are using that doesn't have any of the aliasing/issues etc., otherwise the reason is probably 1.
 

[Jeki155550]

Give you proof for what? So you can give me more tutorials on how to use enb files? I don't really understand why are you even here, lol. So you have no issues on your side but you want to prove us wrong.I guess some people get satisfaction from that... Cya when something valuable actually comes out.

[k4bn]

5 minutes ago, Jeki155550 said:

Give you proof for what? So you can give me more tutorials on how to use enb files? I don't really understand why are you even here, lol. So you have no issues on your side but you want to prove us wrong.I guess some people get satisfaction from that... Cya when something valuable actually comes out.

Well, if you gave me proof I would actually have something to target. If needed, I'd talk to a couple of other devs and see this through. Unfortunately, for now I don't really have anything to work with. 

[streetburger]

I made videos about my Problems. Just watch this.

Specs and things I tried is in the description. Enjoy.

@k4bn it is not about the games, please understand. This occurs in all games so please stop trolling or whatever you are doing here.

[k4bn]

22 minutes ago, streetburger said:

I made videos about my Problems. Just watch this.

Specs and things I tried is in the description. Enjoy.

@k4bn it is not about the games, please understand. This occurs in all games so please stop trolling or whatever you are doing here.

 I can replicate this behavior if global shadow quality is set to very low. Setting it to high should resolve this. 
If this isn't the case for you, make a recording of using high shadow quality(with settings included) and still getting the same shadow issue. 

You have no problems with AA whatsoever. Supersampling is working like a charm in CS:GO. What AA settings are you using in Destiny 2?

 

global shadow quality set to very low: https://cubeupload.com/im/8a7xPB.png

high: https://cubeupload.com/im/IpvNrp.png

[streetburger]

Ignore the weird lags it has to do sth with my upload.

https://youtu.be/Mll3sVA4yNA

Now you can see the flickering if i turn 8xmsaa off, which shouldnt be there, even on 720p. The worst flickering is on cache:

https://youtu.be/6fSCtosWRzI

You see those moving lines?

 

Destiny 2 Settings are highest(showed in german in the vid, sorry for that)

 

[k4bn]

1 minute ago, streetburger said:

Ignore the weird lags it has to do sth with my upload.

https://youtu.be/Mll3sVA4yNA

Now you can see the flickering if i turn 8xmsaa off, which shouldnt be there, even on 720p. The worst flickering is on cache:

https://youtu.be/6fSCtosWRzI

You see those moving lines?

 

Destiny 2 Settings are highest(showed in german in the vid, sorry for that)

 

You set your shadows to high and now it's looking exactly like it should, that's awesome!

 

But...you turned off supersampling anti-aliasing and all of your anti-aliasing methods are off. This will result in an aliased image(the moving lines). This is where the flickering comes in. Because you turned off anti-aliasing. Anti-aliasing is used to counter aliasing. This is why it exists, understand?

 

If you are wondering what aliasing is in its core, read this: https://gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/105889/what-causes-aliasing

 

Since both MSAA and FXAA are off, both geometry and alpha tested objects will be aliased.

 

Do you see those objects that flicker more than normal geometry in cache? Those are rendered by what is called an alpha test. They are a great performance optimization, but they flicker like crazy on lower resolutions. Why? As a trade-off for increased performance they are the cause of shader aliasing. You can test it in CS:GO, turn up MSAA all you want, but it will not take care of those alpha tested objects, mainly because MSAA only works on geometry. In static scenes you can see this as jaggies, but in motion you will see it as aliasing/crawling/shimmering/flickering, basically the moving lines. Everyone, and I repeat, everyone has those when anti-aliasing is turned off unless you are playing on an insanely high resolution.

 

Tell me if you don't understand anything or if my posts are too technical, I will gladly simplify anything you want.

You can see the difference here. Exactly the same as it is for you.

 

Reference to alpha testing: https://medium.com/@bgolus/anti-aliased-alpha-test-the-esoteric-alpha-to-coverage-8b177335ae4f

 

In Destiny 2 you have SMAA as the AA method. Exactly the same reason as why Payday 2 is temporally unstable. Mainly because plain SMAA doesn't work in motion, it works only in static images. When you start to move, things fall apart and objects start to flicker. Again, the only way to resolve this is the same way you did with CS:GO, supersampling or downsampling. Supersampling might not work now because the Destiny 2 engine probably won't allow you to supersample like CS:GO did, but you can still downsample and get similar results as you did in CS:GO.

 

[Pupyds]

On 7/11/2017 at 6:14 AM, zuburaika said:

So I bought my new videocard a month ago ( AMD RX 580). I got a lot of problems since then. The lines  of textures are flickering, shadows are flickering, graphics are grainy. Before with my old nvidia 660 card I didnt had this problem. I tried using ultra settings on AA, it helped a bit but still really noticeable. I really cant  play any games because the graphics distract me so much. So I recorded it, I hope you guys could help me out a bit. Also other problems i have is that the screen turned suddenly black while the monitor is still on. I have to restart the pc to get it back to normal. Besides that I hear screeching/scratching sounds come from inside my pc often. I've build my pc myself but thats it, im totally not techinal so I really need some help with this.

 

 

Same problem here, flickering textures in all games, and sometimes my screen turned black until restart the pc, they must be related problems

[lordante]

AHAHAHAH...

I play destiny 2, wih the 1080Ti: 4K +120% render + all AA activated, still the same troubles :).

The real question is: why you continue to post when you make a BIG deny of the trouble, even when i showed you IN LIVE ON MY STREAM, their is a problem.

The fact: two computers, one got the problem, the other do not. THE END. Nothing to hargue about "it is the game engine, programer, martian... So you can't do anything"


Example: in LIF i CLEARLY SEE a circle, moving arround me. I never see it anywhere on friend computer. NO ONE EVEN DEV knows what i'm talking about!

[jinx33]

No need for the provocation and the bitterness.

 

Fact is there is more people reporting having the same problem, that might be hard for you to understand why, but that's real. You can take your time to argue why there is is aliasing in games (and it's not the only problem), this is pretty much pointless, even if you trying to help, we know how the games we played looked like, and it's not just suddenly that people willf figure that, well, damn there is a lot of aliasing after all. You better believe it.

 

I still could not record some gameplay, i really have to do, even if it's worthless, but just to give you a quick resume, playing back AC II at 1080p with 8xAA, seeing buidlings, shadows, leaves, details all around popping in a 5 meters radius, is definitely not what i had previously playing it. I can even tell it's worse than my Xbox 360 days.

 

Keep on explaining why we are nutcases (meaning it or not); i can say that we made up our mind a long time ago,

[Nic-z]

The problem is real  , @k4bn you have 43 pages to read and see screenshoot / videos of the problem , on the evil with in 2 for example this problem its very notorious  , the next week i can try to format and see if that fix the issue , on my case  the problem start again when change the psu and update windows 10 to 1709 build , i try with the old psu and nothing the problem persist .

[PolishGamer]

i asked question to nvidia support about that: what ive got?

 

- install new driver

- how long is your cable

- try to optimize your game by nvidia experience

- try to set high all antialiasing in nvidia control panel

nothing from nvidia support work for me, games look shitty and worst when i compare it to old gtx 760 im still waiting for more tips from nvidia..

 

i know what will be next: well try to buy next our card with RGB maybe that will fix your problem ahha

 

sorry for my english but i think u understand about what im talking.

[Kelven]

I already gave up trying to fix this problem, I do as I said, I modify the lod bias in regedit and leave the game in window with the taskbar appearing, solves some of the problem (Just the problem reported in the forum, bad aliasing and glittering).
Now I'm just pressing ctrl + f on the forum and I'm looking for something like fix.