Jagged Shadows,Pop in,Low LOD and jagged aa

[k4bn]

39 minutes ago, Magix said:

You must have had this issue since day zero! I have no misunderstanding about AA, this is not an AA issue at all, it just has an effect which affects it; thing is, when I first booted up my new PC, I noticed how everything looks crisp and full HD, with rich, deep colors. The BASE image/pixel processing was fine, and any AA added to it worked wonders to combat REGULAR aliasing. After I fiddled wth my GPU, that is I just unscrewed it, slightly tilted it and screwed it back on, the BASE image/pixel processing got broken, and now everything from fonts to icons to games appears like it is rendered completely differently. Now EVERYTHING looks grainy and aliased and a lot of detail is gone, it all looks fuzzy. For example, it is difficult to make out weather an ingameobectade out of metal, since the broken pixel processing 

Never said you had any misunderstanding about AA, only that some users in the thread do. Yeah, I read your other posts and I get the general idea, but I don't think that you have the same issues that Kelven is talking about. It's mostly this difference:

 

 

 

 

 

[Magix]

I believe I do, if you have pixel crawling/shimmering, it is the same issue, only some have it broken from first boot and think this is normal aliasing, and some don't and have it happen later on. Also, people generally fail to understand that this issue affects ALL graphics put out onto the screen, not just games. Trust me, with the same hardware, drivers and settings there was NO shimmering/pixel crawling AT ALL, NO jagged shadows (which are jagged because of this broken way pixels are processed on the screen, it causes jagginess to all textures, objects, foliage, shadows, to ANYTHING that is on the screen, from BIOS to games). As for something that affects only games, i.e.the draw distance, low LOD and pop in/out are issues which come along with this one.

 

Shadows, for example, are jagged because of this general pixelization issue, not the lowered LOD, for they are jagged when I stand in front of them, too. The lowered LOD would just put them in lower res and they would be smudgy, not jaggy. Textures look compressed even when fully loaded. Reflections are bad and overbrightened (because every pixel is overbrightened, and less color-accurate). It's NOT an AA issue, AA works, it just has to work with this broken pixel processing. You might say the entire PC has no AA, that's what it looks like, yes, but AA being broken is not the culprit here. It works as before, just in this new, corrupted environment.

 

AF doesn't seem to work because the LOD bubble is very small, anyway, and it obstructs any AF implemetation on the road ahead of the player.

 

Frame scaling and virtual super resolution or DSR can somewhat reduce the shimmering, but the issue is still apparent, since what it does it does with this corrupted pixel processing and it does not give you the picture quality you had before the issue.

 

It is difficult to exactly describe what is wrong, but here's a fitting analogy I think:

 

The graphics look less vector and more raster!

 

The LOD bias problem is an issue which piggybacks along with the base broken pixel processing. Great pics you uploaded, an example can be shown here - you can see this exact same issue (and I'm on my smartphone so everything display perfectly and crisp, if i were looking at the images using my PC instead, I could not tell you if it's processing the images fuzzy and jaggy because of my PCs pixel presentation or because those images come from a PC which also has the issue). Look at the outlines of the helmet, the letters on the car and the reflection, all wellvwithin the LOD bubble. You can see how the pixels are broken up on the outlines of the helmet, the letters are jaggy (might be lower res texture, but then it would be just smudgier, not as jaggy), reflections are jaggy, color stripes are jaggy, anything on the image is jaggy and somehow less detailed and colorful. It looks flat, sense of spatial depth is lost, color depth seems reduced, and those darn pixels crawl around with movement. There was none of this for me even in Mass Effect, just normal edge aliasing, with no AA. I will upload some pics I took with my phone to accentuate what is what. Thanks for your interest and patience, bruh!

 

 

 

 

The car is a random pic from the internet, the other two pics are Far Cry 5 (looks EXACTLY the same in any game, I can show pics from Fallout 4, as well). Notice how undefined the picture quality is. The above is 1680×1050 with TAA on, settings ULTRA. On my 1080p monitor it looks even worse. At 2k downsampled it looks basically the same, it does its thing, as does the TAA, but the pixel rendering always makes it look pixelish and flat.

[k4bn]

1 hour ago, Magix said:

The LOD bias problem is an issue which piggybacks along with the base broken pixel processing. Great pics you uploaded, an example can be shown here - you can see this exact same issue (and I'm on my smartphone so everything display perfectly and crisp, if i were looking at the images using my PC instead, I could not tell you if it's processing the images fuzzy and jaggy because of my PCs pixel presentation or because those images come from a PC which also has the issue). Look at the outlines of the helmet, the letters on the car and the reflection, all wellvwithin the LOD bubble. You can see how the pixels are broken up on the outlines of the helmet, the letters are jaggy (might be lower res texture, but then it would be just smudgier, not as jaggy), reflections are jaggy, color stripes are jaggy, anything on the image is jaggy and somehow less detailed and colorful. It looks flat, sense of spatial depth is lost, color depth seems reduced, and those darn pixels crawl around with movement. There was none of this for me even in Mass Effect, just normal edge aliasing, with no AA. I will upload some pics I took with my phone to accentuate what is what. Thanks for your interest and patience, bruh!

Not sure what you mean about the colors, reflections etc. I haven't played rFactor, but those look fine in the screenshots. The only difference is that the fence uses a high negative LOD/mip bias, probably like -5 or something. Since clamp doesn't work, the sharpness from the high negative mip bias causes the aliasing/shimmering. In the other screenshot clamp works and the mip bias of the fence gets set to 0. Compared to the fence and the road lines(and some other stuff you can see in the screenshot), the other objects seem to have a default mip bias of 0 or 1, so there is no difference when clamping. 

 

And yes, AA is not the "issue" here, both examples use 4x MSAA. The issue is that clamp doesn't work in both examples.

 

As for the pics you posted, I'm sorry, but it's incredibly hard to tell what is going on here because I have no reference point to anything. I advise you to at least take full screen screenshots in-game

and explain what you think is wrong or, like I did, provide comparison screenshots.

[Magix]

You're addressing LOD/mimap bias shimmer. I was focusing on the car and driver in your screenshots. Forget the LOD for a minute. Look at my pics of the door handle and the window. Do you see the pixels? The shots are close-up to the screen, but apparent all the same even when I sit a good distance away from the screen. 

When I said AA being broken was not the issue, I was addressing neither the LOD/mimap bias nor 4x MSAA being used. The issue is a sort of pixelization of the screen. Something occurred which either oversharpens the pixels or prevents them from blending together into a crisp, smooth image.

The aliasing I would have on a properly working PC with AA off was much longer lines, not each pixel crawling about. The pixels crawl about regardless of distance. Not talking about LOD problems now.

Let's say I browse Windows and all my icons have these jaggies, too. All youtube videos played at HD look fuzzy and the same shimmering can be seen on thin lines. Before it was perfectly smooth. Windows has no AA, no LOD, none of that. This affects not only the edges of objects or icons or images, but the whole thing. EVERYTHING on the screen looks less defined, whist it used to look smooth and crisp and glassy like on a GALAXY S smartphone.

[Magix]

As for your screenshots, I was talking about the driver and car, not the fence, that's why I said ''well within the LOD bubble'', so it's not affected by it, and yets it is pixelated, even with 4x MSAA. It's the ''basis'' to which these 4x MSAA are being applied that's problematic.

[k4bn]

9 hours ago, Magix said:

As for your screenshots, I was talking about the driver and car, not the fence, that's why I said ''well within the LOD bubble'', so it's not affected by it, and yets it is pixelated, even with 4x MSAA. It's the ''basis'' to which these 4x MSAA are being applied that's problematic.

Yeah, it looks like there's some aliasing left on the helmet, primarily the white parts where the light gets reflected. However, MSAA doesn't work on this particular type of aliasing, it can't solve shader aliasing from the shader on the helmet because it only works once per pixel. This can only get solved by some kind of supersampling. The white lines on the car just look low res. It's a really old game, so that's understandable.

 

And I'm not sure about the jagged windows icons and other stuff, can you show some examples of that? The in-game screenshots are still incomprehensible, there's nothing to even comment on there.

[KarathKasun]

Those macro images just show a horrible pixel density and poor display quality TBQH.

 

I can hook up an LCD that was built using 2010 or earlier tech and get similar results regardless of how much FSAA/SSAA I process the image with.

[Magix]

8 hours ago, KarathKasun said:

Those macro images just show a horrible pixel density and poor display quality TBQH.

 

I can hook up an LCD that was built using 2010 or earlier tech and get similar results regardless of how much FSAA/SSAA I process the image with.

Yes, it LOOKS like poor pixel density (hence my comparison to cheap vs expensive smartphone graphics), but a month ago nothing looked like that. It looked very smooth. Honestly, it's like the pixel density changed or something ( I don't see how it cold though, must be something else).

Here is some screenshots of Far Cry 5 at Ultra, 1680x1050 with TAA enabled (on my 1080p monitor it looks even worse, it's not due to the monitors, though). Notice how pixelated it looks. My Windows desktop graphics look like that, too.

Were you to have a look at my screen instead of the screenshots, it looks about two time worse than that, i.e. the effect is much more pronounced than the screenshots can show. Even on my PC, which shows everything jagged now, it looks better on these screenshots than it actually is.

What's going on here, what the **** causes this? When I first got this fuzziness/pixelization, it was way less pronounced. As for the bad draw distance, popins, LOD issues, those came only after a Windows reinstall, also becoming gradually worse. Why those follow the pixelization/fuzziness issue, and why the pixelization/fuzziness affects all my graphics, not just games, it just leaves me scratching my head.
 

 

12 hours ago, k4bn said:

Yeah, it looks like there's some aliasing left on the helmet, primarily the white parts where the light gets reflected. However, MSAA doesn't work on this particular type of aliasing, it can't solve shader aliasing from the shader on the helmet because it only works once per pixel. This can only get solved by some kind of supersampling. The white lines on the car just look low res. It's a really old game, so that's understandable.

 

And I'm not sure about the jagged windows icons and other stuff, can you show some examples of that? The in-game screenshots are still incomprehensible, there's nothing to even comment on there.

Thing is, I did not have such pixel ''artifacts'' at all while the rig was working fine.

I sure can, only the effect is less pronounced on screenshots, and if viewed on a proper functioning PC it becomes even less pronounced. Also, Windows 10 photo viewer

 blurs things out (I guess they are aware of this issue and added a blur filter to the app to mask it when viewing your pics).

The issue varies in intensity, sometimes it's worse sometimes a bit better. I have no idea what factors into that 'on-the-fly modulation' of the severity, but I noticed that picture quality varied like that when my PC was functioning properly, too, only it was never more jagged vs less jagged, it was more blurry vs less blurry. So that leaves me with the question if some kind of filter which softens the pixels got broken. But which component is responsible? On prior rig *sometimes* a new GPU would fix this for me, until some physical bump against the PC case or a software like an ENB or a driver kernel failure would trigger it again. The triggers are random, but once the issue starts, it stays for good.

Here's some icons, though I'm not sure how much you will be able to see. In short, everything which appears even slightly jagged in these screenshots of icons, like for example the outlines of This PC and Recycle bin and the CCleaner icons, were completely smooth before. Like a flter was being applied, as I said. And now it's not.

Again, some days it's more pronounced and some days less. Exactly as on my TV when I watch regular broadcasting, which I find very weird.

 

Here's a picture from an interesting thread I came across yesterday. The guy's terminology of the problem matches mine.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/gl502vm-over-sharpened-screen.803549/

His photo of the Sign-in page of Windows 10 looks exactly like mine now looks. The thing is - all those letters and numbers were completely smooth before. When watching pics I had a feeling of immense immersion, the same as when I played games. I used to just walk around and marvel about the level of detail and crispness of my surroundings.

Remember when BuckGup wrote ''So I have only run a couple games so far. Ones that I remember testing before and I'm shocked. If you have bad eyes and take your glasses off it's like putting them on after a year without them. It's like what app for that said. Everything is clearer and shit just looks better. Shadows aren't screwed up, buildings don't have lines, there isn't a LOD box that follows you.''? THAT. Exactly THAT.

Textures indeed looked like a ''32K texture pack'' (lol). Lighting and reflections looked AMAZING. No aliasing with minimal AA. No shimmering/pixel crawling ANYWHERE. Shadows amazing. Color depth amazing. Ultrarealism at it's finest.

Now? Hybrid PS2/PS3 graphics. I sh*t you not.

I know the photos are close ups, but really it does not matter. It just serves to accentuate what the problem is here; I could hae my nose pressed up against the monitor while all was looking well and working fine and it would still look amazing, no matter the distance I sit from my monitor. Same goes with the sh*tty picture I have to endure now. It's apparent at any distance. As for the pixel crawling in games and videos, no distance away from the monitor helps with that.
 

[Magix]

Everything is oversharpened and either the pixel count is lower or a blending filter is missing or the spaces between the pixels are more visible.

[Dzeno]

Guys i have the same problem and I recently changed my entire pc,problem still persist,so couple of days ago I just tried different cables and I used VGA instead of DVI and trust me or not it seems as jagged lines and shimmering is less visible.

[Magix]

1 hour ago, Dzeno said:

Guys i have the same problem and I recently changed my entire pc,problem still persist,so couple of days ago I just tried different cables and I used VGA instead of DVI and trust me or not it seems as jagged lines and shimmering is less visible.

Yeah, I feel ya bruh. A new PC fixed it for me, but I had to touch the damn GPU. So I put together a NEW PC, issue was there from the beggining. With the severity were it left off. Meanwhile it's gotten worse yet. I cannot figure out wtf is happening. All my games look like shit, Windows look like shit, videos look like shit, UEFI BIOS looks like shit, MOBO boot logo is jagged and fuzzy. All is.

 

 

[KarathKasun]

13 hours ago, Magix said:

Everything is oversharpened and either the pixel count is lower or a blending filter is missing or the spaces between the pixels are more visible.

 

The raw desktop screenshots look like you have interface scaling on or have disabled ClearType.

 

Other than that it appears that you have something somewhere overriding default LOD to a negative value, which would have the same impact on the desktop as the above mentioned issues. (the desktop is rendered just like a game since Windows Vista)  I would suggest that some software you have installed (or Windows is installing as part of a driver) is causing this.  It could even be the monitor profile that comes with Windows interacting badly with your display/GPU combination.

 

Honestly, I would install Windows without an internet connection, have the GPU driver and some small tests like Haven or Valley on  USB stick, install JUST the GPU driver and the tests (along with anything needed for the tests to run like .NET or the Direct X update), and see if the problem is present.  If not, start installing your other drivers and applications one at a time, testing after each is added.  Once you have everything installed and tested, connect to the internet and start updating Windows.  Test again to see if the issue has cropped up again or not.

 

If the problem exists at the first test above, clear CMOS, re-seat RAM, re-seat CPU, re-seat GPU, and try testing on the same OS configuration again (no need to re-install, fresh OS+GPU driver should not have any offending software variables).  If its still a problem, update UEFI/BIOS or even roll back one version if the older version supports your current CPU/RAM.  Once the problem seems to go away, start installing other drivers/software one at a time.

 

Another thing to try would be changing the setting in your GPU driver to force GPU scaling and see if that changes anything (or disable this if its already on).  Also make sure that the "sharpness" setting on your monitor is not at 100%.  On all of my digital monitors and TV's (HDMI/DVI) having sharpness set to anything over zero causes a sharpen post process filter to be applied by the monitor, and the zero setting displays the image without any alteration.

 

8 hours ago, Dzeno said:

Guys i have the same problem and I recently changed my entire pc,problem still persist,so couple of days ago I just tried different cables and I used VGA instead of DVI and trust me or not it seems as jagged lines and shimmering is less visible.

That is because VGA is an analog signal and inherently introduces blurring to the transmitted image.

 

7 hours ago, Magix said:

Yeah, I feel ya bruh. A new PC fixed it for me, but I had to touch the damn GPU. So I put together a NEW PC, issue was there from the beggining. With the severity were it left off. Meanwhile it's gotten worse yet. I cannot figure out wtf is happening. All my games look like shit, Windows look like shit, videos look like shit, UEFI BIOS looks like shit, MOBO boot logo is jagged and fuzzy. All is.

 

 

Also, if you are not running a 16:9 monitor, some games will inherently look bad.  The UI elements in quite a few games are specifically designed for 16:9.

 

UEFI and boot logo look like crap most of the time anyway because they tend to use an old carry over resolution from the good old days of BIOS, 640x400 or 720x480.

[Magix]

Thanks, I'll be right with ya!

 

On 5/30/2018 at 8:54 PM, KarathKasun said:

 

The raw desktop screenshots look like you have interface scaling on or have disabled ClearType.

 

Other than that it appears that you have something somewhere overriding default LOD to a negative value, which would have the same impact on the desktop as the above mentioned issues. (the desktop is rendered just like a game since Windows Vista)  I would suggest that some software you have installed (or Windows is installing as part of a driver) is causing this.  It could even be the monitor profile that comes with Windows interacting badly with your display/GPU combination.

 

Honestly, I would install Windows without an internet connection, have the GPU driver and some small tests like Haven or Valley on  USB stick, install JUST the GPU driver and the tests (along with anything needed for the tests to run like .NET or the Direct X update), and see if the problem is present.  If not, start installing your other drivers and applications one at a time, testing after each is added.  Once you have everything installed and tested, connect to the internet and start updating Windows.  Test again to see if the issue has cropped up again or not.

 

If the problem exists at the first test above, clear CMOS, re-seat RAM, re-seat CPU, re-seat GPU, and try testing on the same OS configuration again (no need to re-install, fresh OS+GPU driver should not have any offending software variables).  If its still a problem, update UEFI/BIOS or even roll back one version if the older version supports your current CPU/RAM.  Once the problem seems to go away, start installing other drivers/software one at a time.

 

Another thing to try would be changing the setting in your GPU driver to force GPU scaling and see if that changes anything (or disable this if its already on).  Also make sure that the "sharpness" setting on your monitor is not at 100%.  On all of my digital monitors and TV's (HDMI/DVI) having sharpness set to anything over zero causes a sharpen post process filter to be applied by the monitor, and the zero setting displays the image without any alteration.

 

That is because VGA is an analog signal and inherently introduces blurring to the transmitted image.

 

Also, if you are not running a 16:9 monitor, some games will inherently look bad.  The UI elements in quite a few games are specifically designed for 16:9.

 

UEFI and boot logo look like crap most of the time anyway because they tend to use an old carry over resolution from the good old days of BIOS, 640x400 or 720x480.

Thank you for your extensive reply!

ClearType is enabled, Windows scaling is set to 100%.

 

Quote

Honestly, I would install Windows without an internet connection, have the GPU driver and some small tests like Haven or Valley on  USB stick, install JUST the GPU driver and the tests (along with anything needed for the tests to run like .NET or the Direct X update), and see if the problem is present.  If not, start installing your other drivers and applications one at a time, testing after each is added.  Once you have everything installed and tested, connect to the internet and start updating Windows.  Test again to see if the issue has cropped up again or not.

If the problem exists at the first test above, clear CMOS, re-seat RAM, re-seat CPU, re-seat GPU, and try testing on the same OS configuration again (no need to re-install, fresh OS+GPU driver should not have any offending software variables).  If its still a problem, update UEFI/BIOS or even roll back one version if the older version supports your current CPU/RAM.  Once the problem seems to go away, start installing other drivers/software one at a time.

I have tried fresh installs with and without internet connection, installing just the GPU driver and testing, upgrading and downgrading BIOS and VBIOS, different drivers and driver combinations for all components, enabling/disabling GPU scaling and Virtual SuperResolution, trying different monitors and monitor settings, different cables, different display outputs, power outlets (always with overvoltage protection like APC or AEG), Windows XP, 7, 8 and 10 x86 and x64, Pro and Home versions from CD and USB drive, different combinations of BIOS settings and Windows settings, clearing CMOS with Windows and drivers installed, just Windows installed, without Windows installed, with components installed, clearing it on a bare motherboard (even reseated the CMOS battery) and then installing components, different drivers for all components and different combinations thereof, exchanging components for brand new ones one by one or multiple at a time, MemTest and dxdiag all show up fine, temps are good, all is proper, I have tried all kinds of things, but it persists.

In games like Fallout 4 and Far Cry 5 the UIs/fonts look a bit better on the 16:9 1080p monitor since they were scaled for that res, but still suffer this issue; the whole screen does. When I say that the mobo boot logo is jaggier than before, I do know that it is very low res to begin with, but it was not jaggy, just smudgier because of the low res, just now it is jaggier and pixels are more apparent. The AORUS boot logo, even though in low res, had clean lines, now I can see the pixels stacking and it looks less defined, fuzzier just like everything else. The letters for the commands beneath the logo (Q-Flash, ENTER BIOS etc.) are not smooth anymore, they are jaggy and somehow broken up almost like pixel position is different. UEFI BIOS is low res yes, but the fonts were smooth but smudgier due to low res, but not jagged/oversharpened. Even in Legacy BIOS the letters are jaggier. I don't even have to have Windows installed for this issue to be present, so it is not really driver related.

 

Quote

Other than that it appears that you have something somewhere overriding default LOD to a negative value, which would have the same impact on the desktop as the above mentioned issues. (the desktop is rendered just like a game since Windows Vista)  I would suggest that some software you have installed (or Windows is installing as part of a driver) is causing this.  It could even be the monitor profile that comes with Windows interacting badly with your display/GPU combination.

I first had this happen on Windows XP after a BSOD crash while playing GTA IV. It does not matter which Windows I use. It can be triggered by both software and hardware changes.

[Magix]

When I bought this rig and put it together I hooked up a brand new Dell monitor. It's a 24'' 1080p IPS monitor. With that monitor I installed Windows 10 from an USB drive. Immediately as I entered the Windows setup menu, I knew the graphics are gonna be fine, since everything was looking smooth with no pixelated/jagged feel to it (and that's in very low res!). When Windows got installed, it all looked smooth even on low res. So I installed all the drivers, which ofc set my res to native, and it was as smooth. I didn't like the colors on that monitor (it was a faulty unit it would seem), so I hooked up my old TN 1050p monitor. Everything looked great, crisp, glassy, smooth.

After I reseated my GPU, the pixelated graphics issue occured, but only slihtly, but on all graphics, boot logo, Windows, games. just somewhat jaggy edges and texture and foliage shimmering. But NO LOD bubble and pop-ins. So I reseated it a couple of more times in hopes it would fix it, but the pixelization became more severe. Then when I reinstalled Windows I got the LOD bubble and pop-ins as well.

So I bought the exact same components again and a brand new AOC TN 1080p monitor, put it all together, turned the new PC on, but both the pixelation (everywhere) and LOD bubble and pop-ins (games) were there from the beginning.

Now, I did get a boot code of 00 while turning on the first PC hooked up with the Dell monitor via miniDisplayPort. Non-boot. But it restarted and booted into BIOS normally.

So I'm thinking perhaps I should have hooked it up to an IPS monitor or else just via DisplayPort to 'kickstart' it into normal graphics quality. But  dunno. Perhaps I just got lucky with very good components, and the second batch had something which causes this.

 

[Magix]

Here's a couple more photos I took to show the fuzziness/pixelated look, this time of HD YouTube. I chose Linus' video, they are of an astounding quality (so imagine how bad other videos look...)

 

Look how crude it looks. Notice the jaggies. So much color is lost, too... (the camera overbrightens the capture, though, it's not that bright/contrasted).

 

Notice the jaggies on the PSUs, the DIMMs, CPU handle etc. The same jaggies and shimmering as in games.

 

 

[Magix]

The issue messes up the colors on my PC, contrast is somehow higher yet changing contrast settings in monitor or Radeon settings does not help, reflections and whites look glowingly bright, the colors are brightened up but not rich and deep, much detail on all textures, pics and in videos is lost due to the fuzzier look, vegetation looks too pale both in games and in pictures, in-game lighting looks worse, generally like the display gets locked into lower bit mode. It's so sad.

 

Saddest is that this was a very stable rig, had no software trigger the issue like on prior rigs, I ruined it myself by reseating the GPU because I thought it was a bit misaligned. If it ain't broke, don't fix it... What was I thinking, after 8 years of this issue and I ruin it again...

 

But it is an atrocity that you can't exchange components or buy a new PC without having a bone chilling fear of getting pixelated graphics or reinstall Windows and wonder whether stuff will render fully/at all 5 feet in front of you.

 

 

It's an atrocity that devs play dumb about this. Hundreds of complaints on the internet about this, yet noooooo dev has eeeeveeeer had this happen or seen it, or else claims it's normal or some games are just plagued by these issues. Sure. That's why I had not a single jaggy at near or far distance in ALL games using minimal AA and had super long draw distances and not a single pop, and the next day all those games look like PS2 titles. I'd say PS3, but a working PS3 has splendid graphics (the issue affects consoles too, same gamut - jagged UIs, crappier colors and contrast, massive pixel crawling/shimmering). And so few people notice it severely affects their Windows graphics, too. Some do, though. How that connection flies past them just beats me up.

 

As for the devs... perhaps they would like to sell me a 4K monitor so I can somewhat get rid of jaggies/shimmering? But wait, I'll need a 1080ti to play on that res! Hmmmm, perhaps two, since I have to use 128x Supersparsegridmegasampling to get rid of it completely. Whereas yesterday I would just tick FXAA/TAA/MSAA to ON and voila.  Of course Imma need a beast PSU for those cards, too, as well as a beast CPU. And then I can finally enjoy a non-pixelated non-shimmering non-fuzzy non-popping Morrowind.

[KarathKasun]

2 hours ago, Magix said:

The issue messes up the colors on my PC, contrast is somehow higher yet changing contrast settings in monitor or Radeon settings does not help, reflections and whites look glowingly bright, the colors are brightened up but not rich and deep, much detail on all textures, pics and in videos is lost due to the fuzzier look, vegetation looks too pale both in games and in pictures, in-game lighting looks worse, generally like the display gets locked into lower bit mode. It's so sad.

 

Saddest is that this was a very stable rig, had no software trigger the issue like on prior rigs, I ruined it myself by reseating the GPU because I thought it was a bit misaligned. If it ain't broke, don't fix it... What was I thinking, after 8 years of this issue and I ruin it again...

 

But it is an atrocity that you can't exchange components or buy a new PC without having a bone chilling fear of getting pixelated graphics or reinstall Windows and wonder whether stuff will render fully/at all 5 feet in front of you.

 

 

It's an atrocity that devs play dumb about this. Hundreds of complaints on the internet about this, yet noooooo dev has eeeeveeeer had this happen or seen it, or else claims it's normal or some games are just plagued by these issues. Sure. That's why I had not a single jaggy at near or far distance in ALL games using minimal AA and had super long draw distances and not a single pop, and the next day all those games look like PS2 titles. I'd say PS3, but a working PS3 has splendid graphics (the issue affects consoles too, same gamut - jagged UIs, crappier colors and contrast, massive pixel crawling/shimmering). And so few people notice it severely affects their Windows graphics, too. Some do, though. How that connection flies past them just beats me up.

 

As for the devs... perhaps they would like to sell me a 4K monitor so I can somewhat get rid of jaggies/shimmering? But wait, I'll need a 1080ti to play on that res! Hmmmm, perhaps two, since I have to use 128x Supersparsegridmegasampling to get rid of it completely. Whereas yesterday I would just tick FXAA/TAA/MSAA to ON and voila.  Of course Imma need a beast PSU for those cards, too, as well as a beast CPU. And then I can finally enjoy a non-pixelated non-shimmering non-fuzzy non-popping Morrowind.

If you see the problem on a console its 100% your display(s) fault.  PS3 has tons of texture shimmering and aliasing issues, and always has.  The only PS3 games I have played without this problem would be GT 5 and games with simple graphics that can run full AA @ 1080p native resolution.  The only displays my PS3's looked great on were an old 16x9 1080i CRT TV and a 1080p CRT projection TV.

 

The only reason I can see the problem following a GPU is if you physically damaged the card with ESD.

[FlameE]

I can't believe i finally found people with the same problem as me, just to be sure the thing i pointed out here https://prnt.sc/jn38hd is one of the issues right ??

[Kelven]

On 28/05/2018 at 4:01 AM, Magix said:

Thank you for your efforts in trying to explain what seems to be the obvious to us, but you must have had this issue since day one and consider it normal, nothing to it. I have no misunderstanding about AA, this is not an AA issue at all, it just has an effect which affects it; thing is, when I first booted up my new PC, I noticed how everything looks crisp and full HD, with rich, deep colors. The BASE image/pixel processing was fine, and any AA added to it worked wonders to combat REGULAR aliasing. After the issue occurrs everything from fonts to icons to games appears like it is rendered completely differently. Now EVERYTHING looks grainy and aliased and a lot of detail is gone, it all looks fuzzy. Fonts are fuzzy and aliased, so are pictures, UIs, videos, Youtube HD looks less defined. The pixels are somehow broken up, everything looks like it has less color depth, as if the individual pixels were carrying less information than before. Colors look washed out, color transitions are apparent, the graphics look compressed, somewhat overbrightened and weirdly contrasted. Spaces between the pixels can more readily be made out, subtle compression-like artifacts can be seen in all images. This same broken base image/pixel processing is what then gets used in games as well, and the graininess and pixelation carry over causing pixel crawling, poor colors and color transitions, general graininess/pixelization of anything on the screen. At first this effects is subtle, but it gets worse as one fiddles with the components in one's PC. Now, that's the fuzziness/graininess/pixelization issue, with all graphics affected, from UEFI BIOS (no, I'm not kidding), to Windows (videos as well) to games to whatnot. It's like the image is rendered pixel by pixel with poor transitions between them in luminosity and color, or else like less pixels are being used to render on the display, or/and with less bits of color, I cant say for sure. Then in games come along the object pop in/out, texture and shadow pop ins/outs, jagged or totally bugged out shadows, shadow flickering, and ingame objects and characters seem to be poorly lit, shaded and shadowed. Upping the resolution or using techniques like DSR or ingame scaling, TAA and SS just serve to mask the pixelization/graininess issue, which reduces the shimmering and jagginess on objects and textures and foliage a little, but the base broken pixel output is still there, and so are all the other issues like the LOD box, pop ins and pop outs, buggy and flickering shadows.

 

 

I thought I was going crazy, but I also see this problem in the bios area ...

[Kelven]

On 5/28/2018 at 2:46 AM, k4bn said:

Never said you had any misunderstanding about AA, only that some users in the thread do. Yeah, I read your other posts and I get the general idea, but I don't think that you have the same issues that Kelven is talking about. It's mostly this difference:

It's the same problem as the magix! 

 

Super virtual resolution of AMD and txaa really only disguises the problem, but if every game had txaa or I got a gtx1080ti to play in 4k was already great! I feel sad to spend so much energy to correct this problem but not find a solution, I even go to a Russian forum to see if they discover something ...

 

On 5/30/2018 at 4:56 AM, Magix said:

Were you to have a look at my screen instead of the screenshots, it looks about two time worse than that, i.e. the effect is much more pronounced than the screenshots can show. Even on my PC, which shows everything jagged now, it looks better on these screenshots than it actually is.

I understand you, the photos taken to show the problem to people, never shows 100% of the problem.

[FlameE]

So will copy and paste what i posted on steam here 

''Old ''problem'' of mine

Well this will be long be warned... way back in 2013 when i changed my old cube monitor for a tv/monitor full hd i came across this ''image'' problem where at first i tought it was just a anti aliasing problem (if it was that i would be in heaven), but nope, in games especificaly games full of vegetation like rpgs, i could see ''pixels'' (don't know if that is the right world) around the vegetations, the characters body and objetcs, some quadriculated shadows and even in the water i could see these pixels , i noticed that after using a vga cable instead of hdmi the problem became way less apparent it was still there but i could play and finish games without being annoyed by it, after asking for help in tons of forums and not being able to resolve this, i settled for the vga cable since at the time i tought ''my pc is trash anyway nothing i can do about it for now'' it was a HD 7770, i3 and 8gb ram, over the years i finished games like Dragon's dogma and Dark Souls 2 where i barely noticed this problem thanks to the vga cable, anyway a month ago i could finally buy a new good pc imo, it was one with gtx 1070, ryzen 2600, and this problem was not even on my mind anymore since i tought it was over, but to my surprise when i started a game in this new pc the problem was still there, fine i tought it can only be my monitor now, so a few weeks ago i bought a new monitor, it arrived in my home a few days ago, i installed and opened The witcher 2 (one of the games where this thing annoys me the most and is the most aparent damn it's almost like the characters have two shadows one normal, and another full of this thing) and yet again the problem was there even a vga conversor didn't help anymore, and display port was the same as the hdmi so now i really don't know what to do anymore since i already changed pcs and even the freaking monitor, i have a AOC 24 gamer, now i can only guess it's some config problem, i tried messing on nvidia control painel like people recomend me to but nope nothing, i could be missing something i just don't know what , what you guys think it might be ?? here it's a screenshot https://prnt.sc/jgzda0 look at the hair and the vegetations some of you guys may think it's nothing and it's a thing of my head o but believe me in game, walking around this thing is freaking hell and even in my cube monitor this didn't happen so yeah it's not normal. Sorry for the whole book i wrote above, usually when i just tip one or two lines people don't get what i'm talking about.''

So yeah... is this one of the issues  you guys are or were ( i hope so) experiencing  ???

[Kelven]

3 minutes ago, FlameE said:

So yeah... is this one of the issues  you guys are or were ( i hope so) experiencing  ???

It seems that yes, it is more perceptible in videos...

[FlameE]

2 minutes ago, Kelven said:

It seems that yes, it is more perceptible in videos...

Ok thx, time to read page by page here too see if i can solve this.

[Magix]

On 5/31/2018 at 10:47 PM, FlameE said:

So will copy and paste what i posted on steam here 

''Old ''problem'' of mine

Well this will be long be warned... way back in 2013 when i changed my old cube monitor for a tv/monitor full hd i came across this ''image'' problem where at first i tought it was just a anti aliasing problem (if it was that i would be in heaven), but nope, in games especificaly games full of vegetation like rpgs, i could see ''pixels'' (don't know if that is the right world) around the vegetations, the characters body and objetcs, some quadriculated shadows and even in the water i could see these pixels , i noticed that after using a vga cable instead of hdmi the problem became way less apparent it was still there but i could play and finish games without being annoyed by it, after asking for help in tons of forums and not being able to resolve this, i settled for the vga cable since at the time i tought ''my pc is trash anyway nothing i can do about it for now'' it was a HD 7770, i3 and 8gb ram, over the years i finished games like Dragon's dogma and Dark Souls 2 where i barely noticed this problem thanks to the vga cable, anyway a month ago i could finally buy a new good pc imo, it was one with gtx 1070, ryzen 2600, and this problem was not even on my mind anymore since i tought it was over, but to my surprise when i started a game in this new pc the problem was still there, fine i tought it can only be my monitor now, so a few weeks ago i bought a new monitor, it arrived in my home a few days ago, i installed and opened The witcher 2 (one of the games where this thing annoys me the most and is the most aparent damn it's almost like the characters have two shadows one normal, and another full of this thing) and yet again the problem was there even a vga conversor didn't help anymore, and display port was the same as the hdmi so now i really don't know what to do anymore since i already changed pcs and even the freaking monitor, i have a AOC 24 gamer, now i can only guess it's some config problem, i tried messing on nvidia control painel like people recomend me to but nope nothing, i could be missing something i just don't know what , what you guys think it might be ?? here it's a screenshot https://prnt.sc/jgzda0 look at the hair and the vegetations some of you guys may think it's nothing and it's a thing of my head o but believe me in game, walking around this thing is freaking hell and even in my cube monitor this didn't happen so yeah it's not normal. Sorry for the whole book i wrote above, usually when i just tip one or two lines people don't get what i'm talking about.''

So yeah... is this one of the issues  you guys are or were ( i hope so) experiencing  ???

Yup, that's it. Sad to hear that Ryzen did not fix it for you. I was gonna get a 2700X system and try on that one, since three people so farvreported it fixed 90% of the issue. Either the Dell monitor I used when setting up the brand new rig, or the fact that I used a miniDP (which gave a boot code of 00, shut itself down and booted into BIOS, and then I installed Windows and drivers, turned off the PC (not the PSU, just shutdown), hooked up my old 1050p monitor via DVI, turned PC on, had great display quality, installed some games, no problem anywhere) kickstarted the proper graphics mode for me, or I had been sold a high quality batch of components, I dunno. But it worked like a charm.

 

Haven't found a definitive fix for this anywhere in 8 years. Some people struggle with this since 2004.

 

After fiddling with the GPU, I got the pixelated graphics. After reinstalling drivers, I got some pop-ins. After reinstalling Windows, I got severe pop-ins, the LOD box issue, jaggy shadows outside that box, some shadows are messed up etc.

 

Btw. Far Cry 5, when played on a PC wihout this issue, looks like the heavens themselves created it. Even an old game like Mass Effect 2 looked wondrous.

 

On 5/31/2018 at 6:02 PM, KarathKasun said:

If you see the problem on a console its 100% your display(s) fault.  PS3 has tons of texture shimmering and aliasing issues, and always has.  The only PS3 games I have played without this problem would be GT 5 and games with simple graphics that can run full AA @ 1080p native resolution.  The only displays my PS3's looked great on were an old 16x9 1080i CRT TV and a 1080p CRT projection TV.

 

The only reason I can see the problem following a GPU is if you physically damaged the card with ESD.

I was at a clients house some time ago, his kid was playing PS3 on an LCD, I noticed the graphics quality and was so amazed I had to sit down and look. There was some regular aliasing, the longer one, but no shimmering, no pixelization. Note that Mass Effect 2 had just some minor aliasing on my working rig, it has no AA option. Regular aliasing looks somehow different than this pixel crawling. Also it was only on edges of objects. Not on everything like this is. This looks like every pixel got their own thing going on. No blending.

 

It could very well be the case that I damaged it with ESD, or that it IS triggered by electricity/voltage modulations or barely turning the PSU off for the first time. For what I can tell for sure is that whenever I fiddle with the PC components and the pixelization issue gets somewhat worse or better (it's worse on one mbo/cpu/ram combo of the same brands and models than on the other, and varies minutely on the same system by using differrent display drivers, but it's always there), the severity of the issue carries over to my Sony LCD TV to a tea, and that TV is in the downstairs living room and has never been in contact with any PC whatsoever. I absolutely ascertained this to be true, both recently while fiddling with the PC and also back when my new PC was working fine, as I went down to watch some TV and immediately noticed that my TV picture was completely cleared up, crisp and clear and defined with amazing color gradients, just as on my properly functioning PC.

 

The LOD box, shadow issues and pop ins in games always stayed the same once they got to these severity levels.

 

While the PC was working well, I could try out different monitors and plug the audio jack in and out and other devices on the same outlet and still all was good. It went pixelated only after turning the monitor and PSU off, clearing the PC of remeining charge by holding the power button pressed, plugged out the power cord, removed DVI-D cable, audio cable, mouse and keyboard and internet cable from PC, opened case, gently reseated GPU, closed case, plugged it all back together, turned on PSU, monitor, turned on PC bam slightly pixelated. Just got worse with more fiddling, until it reached some kind of bottom. It can be modulated to better or worse levels, but never to what it was. It's too obscure to ascertain for sure what happens where and why.

 

It's also worth noting that when all was fine, the picture quality would shift back and forth from great to amazing depepending on who knows what, sometimes in the middle of a game in the same environment (say, the Normandy for example or anywhere, but not after loading a new area, just within seconds it gets better or slightly worse until back again, but always great). So that could be voltages. Now it does that too, only from bad to horrible and vice versa instead of good to great and vice versa. Sometimes the quality stays a certain way longer, sometimes shorter. That's just electricity/voltages I think. But the issue itself can't go away, it's a yes or no thing.

 

On 5/31/2018 at 9:33 PM, Kelven said:

I thought I was going crazy, but I also see this problem in the bios area ...

I know, right? All the graphics suffer the consequences. Hope you have luck on Russian forums. German, English, Croatian forums, so far no solution.

 

I even checked my EDID for possibly added extension blocks using Phoenix EDID tool as Administrator, but the value reads 0. All my EDID info as read by Radeon Settings is the same as before, it would seem. The issue has no observable parameter change within software code, none that anyone could find so far or know where to look.

 

Tried Custom resolutions, changing and combining all values, porches, timings, Pixel clock, polarities, refresh rates, to no avail.

 

Does anyone know if Linus Sebastian is on these forums and whether he could have a look at this thread?

 

23 hours ago, FlameE said:

Ok thx, time to read page by page here too see if i can solve this.

No known fix for now but sheer luck with putting together a completely new rig or have a new GPU solve it. Mostly it doesn't, though.

[jinx33]

13 hours ago, FlameE said:

I can't believe i finally found people with the same problem as me, just to be sure the thing i pointed out here https://prnt.sc/jn38hd is one of the issues right ??

Funny, i started noticing the problem replaying TW2. I actually recorded a video a long time ago showing the magnificent pop-in of vegetation, AA not existing, and shadows being a complete mess, which actually made me figure straight something was off, since this game is a piece of art graphically.

 

But so many people have this problem different way, i got this after simply booting my computer the next day. I just deal with that crap for 2 years now, don't bother me that much now, but i can understand it pisses people off, buying expensive rigs trying to get rid of it. It really sound crazy thought...