PSU Tier List [OLD]

[sosi93]

1 hour ago, MEC-777 said:

The problem is the value changes depending on where you live. The unit that is the best value to one person, may not be the same to someone else living in another country. 

Are those your only options? For that system you would be better off with a 550w and save yourself some money.

yes they are my only options (both 110 $)

then i have to go with " Cooler Master MWE 550 " 55$ or " FSP HYPER 600W  " 65$ >>> the market is sick and people in my country get normally around 300 $ per month

why the FSP HYPER series is not in the tier list ?

there is no more options in the market

 

[MEC-777]

50 minutes ago, sosi93 said:

yes they are my only options (both 110 $)

then i have to go with " Cooler Master MWE 550 " 55$ or " FSP HYPER 600W  " 65$ >>> the market is sick and people in my country get normally around 300 $ per month

why the FSP HYPER series is not in the tier list ?

there is no more options in the market

 

In that case, I'd recommend the Cooler Master V650. It's design is a few years old now, but it is still a very good quality unit. 

[meatie_se]

@OrbitalBuzzsaw Thanks for keeping the list alive!

Some notes for the future list:

Your personal preference for modular is obvious. Please try to be objective and not bash non modular too much.

 

Since I do component level repair, I would not buy anything with chinese capacitors in it. They are a bane. They make everything electronic die within 2 years.

Therefore, may I suggest the list has grading or yes/no columns for a few important criteria: Capacitor quality, Modularity, Fan quality, Efficiency rating, OEM, Noise rating. Not too many of these.

Yes, I am aware of the "PSU Review Database" which has these. It lacks subjective ratings though.

 

A small capacitor rant

Japanese caps are the good stuff. Korean (Samwha) would fall inbetween. The main filter cap rarely ever dies, so it can be chinese.

Absolutely awful cap brand list: Su'scon, CapXon, Lelon, TMS and all the other unknown names.

 

Slightly better chinese brands: Teapo, Jamicon, Taicon, OST, SamXon

Japanese: Rubycon, Nichicon, Panasonic, Sanyo, Suncon, Hitachi, ELNA.

The logo of United Chemi-con, very good japanese caps. The name is not printed on small caps:

 

[orbitalbuzzsaw]

2 minutes ago, meatie_se said:

@OrbitalBuzzsaw Thanks for keeping the list alive!

Some notes for the future list:

Your personal preference for modular is obvious. Please try to be objective and not bash non modular too much.

 

Since I do component level repair, I would not buy anything with chinese capacitors in it. They are a bane. They make everything electronic die within 2 years.

Therefore, may I suggest the list has grading or yes/no columns for a few important criteria: Capacitor quality, Modularity, Fan quality, Efficiency rating, OEM, Noise rating. Not too many of these.

Yes, I am aware of the "PSU Review Database" which has these. It lacks subjective ratings though.

 

A small capacitor rant

Japanese caps are the good stuff. Korean (Samwha) would fall inbetween. The main filter cap rarely ever dies, so it can be chinese.

Absolutely awful cap brand list: Su'scon, CapXon, Lelon, TMS and all the other unknown names.

 

Slightly better chinese brands: Teapo, Jamicon, Taicon, OST, SamXon

Japanese: Rubycon, Nichicon, Panasonic, Sanyo, Suncon, Hitachi, ELNA.

The logo of United Chemi-con, very good japanese caps. The name is not printed on small caps:

 

Pretty much everything is made in China these days, "Japanese" or not.

 

With regards to nonmodularity I see it like sleeve-bearing fans; acceptable in some situations but something to avoid where other options are available.

[Mira Yurizaki]

On 12/3/2018 at 7:18 AM, MEC-777 said:

In regards to re-organizing the list; I have to agree, it needs to be done. Pretty sure some of those T1 units are not really recommended, which begs the question; why are they in T1 to begin with. lol. And the reason some are in one tier vs another aren't clear. 

 

There are so many different ways to go about creating a list as there are so many different factors with PSUs. One thing I've learned when doing things like this is to keep it simple and concentrate on the factors that matter most to the end user. Most people don't care about the specific ripple, voltage regulation, hold-up time, etc. of each unit. All they really want to know is: which one should I buy and which ones are good value? 

 

Thus, I think finding some simplified way of listing or grading the units from best to worst (overall) would help provide viewers the most straight-forward answers and understanding.

I'm assuming the list is for people who want a quick and dirty way to answer the question "which power supply should I get?"

 

If you're looking to revamp this list into something more practical, then catering it towards use-cases rather than a generic tier listing would be more useful for people who just want an answer. Like for example: High-end GPU with an i7 or Ryzen 7 (with or without overclocking) - List all of the PSUs you'd recommend for this scenario.

[orbitalbuzzsaw]

Just now, M.Yurizaki said:

I'm assuming the list is for people who want a quick and dirty way to answer the question "which power supply should I get?"

 

If you're looking to revamp this list into something more practical, then catering it towards use-cases rather than a generic tier listing would be more useful for people who just want an answer. Like for example: High-end GPU with an i7 or Ryzen 7 (with or without overclocking) - List all of the PSUs you'd recommend for this scenario.

A TX550M and a Prime Ultra 750w are both reasonable suggestions for that sort of rig, but they are entirely different beasts

[OrionFOTL]

5 minutes ago, M.Yurizaki said:

I'm assuming the list is for people who want a quick and dirty way to answer the question "which power supply should I get?"

 

If you're looking to revamp this list into something more practical, then catering it towards use-cases rather than a generic tier listing would be more useful for people who just want an answer. Like for example: High-end GPU with an i7 or Ryzen 7 (with or without overclocking) - List all of the PSUs you'd recommend for this scenario. 

Such list would have only two tiers. Everything ranging from Corsair CX to Cooler Master Masterwatt MIJ in one tier, then Diablotek and Logisys in 2nd tier.

[Mira Yurizaki]

6 minutes ago, OrionFOTL said:

Such list would have only two tiers. Everything ranging from Corsair CX to Cooler Master Masterwatt MIJ in one tier, then Diablotek and Logisys in 2nd tier.

And? If you boil it down to "if you get these you're fine" and "don't get these", that significantly reduces the decision fatigue than having something like 7 tiers does.

9 minutes ago, OrbitalBuzzsaw said:

A TX550M and a Prime Ultra 750w are both reasonable suggestions for that sort of rig, but they are entirely different beasts

Then list them anyway. If you need to fine tune the parameters a little, then put sub-categories in it.

[MEC-777]

28 minutes ago, M.Yurizaki said:

I'm assuming the list is for people who want a quick and dirty way to answer the question "which power supply should I get?"

 

If you're looking to revamp this list into something more practical, then catering it towards use-cases rather than a generic tier listing would be more useful for people who just want an answer. Like for example: High-end GPU with an i7 or Ryzen 7 (with or without overclocking) - List all of the PSUs you'd recommend for this scenario.

 

24 minutes ago, OrbitalBuzzsaw said:

A TX550M and a Prime Ultra 750w are both reasonable suggestions for that sort of rig, but they are entirely different beasts

 

21 minutes ago, OrionFOTL said:

Such list would have only two tiers. Everything ranging from Corsair CX to Cooler Master Masterwatt MIJ in one tier, then Diablotek and Logisys in 2nd tier.

 

15 minutes ago, M.Yurizaki said:

And? If you boil it down to "if you get these you're fine" and "don't get these", that significantly reduces the decision fatigue than having something like 7 tiers does.

Then list them anyway. If you need to fine tune the parameters a little, then put sub-categories in it.

We're looking at re-organizing the list into fewer, more easily understood categories and possibly with a grading system (within each category). But the primary idea is to keep this guide/list as simple as possible. 

[LienusLateTips]

41 minutes ago, MEC-777 said:

 

 

 

We're looking at re-organizing the list into fewer, more easily understood categories and possibly with a grading system (within each category). But the primary idea is to keep this guide/list as simple as possible. 

I'm looking at combining Tier 1, 2 and some of 3 into one tier, the rest of 3, 4 into another and then 5, 6. With Tier 7 still standalone as the shit-tier level.

[Stefan Payne]

10 hours ago, sosi93 said:

hi

guys help me ، which psu at same prices

1- cooler master v650s

2-fsp hydro g750

my system is : i5 3570k 4.2 ~ 4.8 ghz

16gb ddr3 ram 1866 mhz cl8

gtx 1060 6gb

5 case fan

2 hdd 7200 rpm

Throw a coin, if it is the Hydro G and not the Hydro GE, both are fine.

https://www.fsp-europe.com/hydro-g-650750850w/

 

So you don't do anything wrong with any of those...

7 hours ago, sosi93 said:

yes they are my only options (both 110 $)

then i have to go with " Cooler Master MWE 550 " 55$ or " FSP HYPER 600W  " 65$ >>> the market is sick and people in my country get normally around 300 $ per month

why the FSP HYPER series is not in the tier list ?

there is no more options in the market

No, they aren't really good.

Get one of the above ones, that's better...

Sadly the Market in some countrys is just garbage and the good stuff starts at 650W if you're lucky, sometimes even 750W...

 

And in 550W you can only get the cheap shit like the ones you mention above.

[Rexper]

7 hours ago, meatie_se said:

Therefore, may I suggest the list has grading or yes/no columns for a few important criteria: Capacitor quality, Modularity, Fan quality, Efficiency rating, OEM, Noise rating. 

Or just build quality as there’s definitely more components than the capacitor and fan. And BTW some Chinese caps are better than Japanese, it’s better to look at the series.

 

Why OEM? Each OEM has different “lines” in their factories that essentially put more or less effort into building the PSU. And each OEM is capable of making low end and high end products.

 

youre missing out on very important factors, electrical performance and protections. They also influence how long the PSU lasts as well as the rest of computer components.

[Stefan Payne]

6 hours ago, meatie_se said:

Since I do component level repair, I would not buy anything with chinese capacitors in it. They are a bane. They make everything electronic die within 2 years.

So how many Rigol stuff do you get?!

And what caps are you actually talking about?!
Because every somewhat decent brand has better and worse series in their lineup. And guess what's mostly used. The worst or second worst series they have.

6 hours ago, meatie_se said:

Therefore, may I suggest the list has grading or yes/no columns for a few important criteria: Capacitor quality, Modularity, Fan quality, Efficiency rating, OEM, Noise rating. Not too many of these.

Yes, I am aware of the "PSU Review Database" which has these. It lacks subjective ratings though.

We can not judge on the "capacitor quality" because there is a ton of factors...

 

For example the 125°C caps in some higher wattage Enhance designs. Are they there to increase lifetime or are they there because its getting hot in that area and its needed?!
 

And there is another thing: Seasonic S12II-Bronze. A pretty low end, group regulated unit that also doesn't seem to have a too good track record when it comes to reliability but "japanese" caps....

In the end, Caps are overrated and should not be judged too harshly because we just do not know enough about it.

 

6 hours ago, meatie_se said:

A small capacitor rant

Japanese caps are the good stuff. Korean (Samwha) would fall inbetween. The main filter cap rarely ever dies, so it can be chinese.

Absolutely awful cap brand list: Su'scon, CapXon, Lelon, TMS and all the other unknown names.

Sorry, but you're wrong.

Because you rate manufacturers by one or two series you might see more often.

 

Su'scon has for example the SD Series wich is rated for 2000h Lifetime and the HX Series wich is rated for 6.000-10.000h lifetime.

Are they all the same? No, they're not! Obviously.

 

The same goes for all other brands as well.

 

So your "absulutely awful cap brand list" is absolutely awful because you can't judge a brand by one or two series.

And many of those aren't chinese either...

Su'scon is Taiwanese, lelon as well...

 

6 hours ago, meatie_se said:

Slightly better chinese brands: Teapo, Jamicon, Taicon, OST, SamXon

Dude, they ain't chinese!

They are Taiwanese, big difference!

 
And you're saying that Nichicon is crap because Taicon is a subsidary of Nichicon...

 

And OST has that even in their name!

They are called TAIWAN Ostor Corporation...

So t hat only leaves SamXon who seem to be chinese...

 

Then again, they all have series with 1000-2000h Lifetime and they go up to 10kh as well...

 

6 hours ago, meatie_se said:

Japanese: Rubycon, Nichicon, Panasonic, Sanyo, Suncon, Hitachi, ELNA.

The logo of United Chemi-con, very good japanese caps. The name is not printed on small caps:

Very good?
Then why do their Ultra Low ESR Caps fail so often?
Panasonic FJ, Nippon Chemicon KZG and KZJ.

And United Chemicon is the US Subsidary, they are not the Japanese branch...

 

And also you can't judge something by where they are from...

It depends on what you want and are willing to pay and what the manufacturer wants.

 

Its like comparing BMW or Mercedes to Peugeot or Fiat and judge them by their Small cars (ie 500, Punto, Panda on Fiats side, 108 and 208 on Peugeots side), and claim that BMW and Mercedes are better - well d'uh, they don't offer anything on the lower end.

And its the same shit with capacitors.

The Teapo SC is way below the KZE wich is comparable to a mid range Teapo SJ series capacitor...

 

So you're really comparing apples <-> oranges.

And without Infos about the Price of the caps, we can't judge them - and we shouldn't!

Because we can't, we don't have enough information to claim that one unit is built better than another one...

And "Wapanese Capacitors" don't make good PSU, everything else has to be in order first...

[Stefan Payne]

1 hour ago, Rexper said:

Or just build quality as there’s definitely more components than the capacitor and fan. And BTW some Chinese caps are better than Japanese, it’s better to look at the series.

The Problem I have with that "Build Quality" talk is that there is no way in the world we can judge the PSU by that.

We just don't have the knowledge for that.

 

@jonnyGURU might be able to do that because he works in a PSU Company and has insights we here do not...

 

So to be blunt, the talk about "Build Quality", if it isn't something obvious/optical like flux residue on the PCB or some ugly solder joints that look bad or weird or aren't done right, we can not judge the build quality at all. Its only some useless talk to sound smart.

 

Like the talk about "this design looks cluttered" "this design looks clean"...

I really hate that. And the more I think about it, the less  sense it makes to me.

 

Another Thing: I haven't seen any defect that looks like it is cap related in the last couple of years in Forums (OK, except the Seasonic failures but they might also not be cap related).

But I've seen however +5V Standby Integrated Chips explode. They were mostly the TNY Chips but it did happen...

 

So to rate the "Build Qualits" we essentially need:

• to really know stuff about PSU, so that we're able to design one ourself (wich then again, we wouldn't do Reviews anyway)
• to completely reverse engineer the PSU, so that we would be able to build them ourselves
• need access to the internal RMA/Defect Rate of the Manufacturer... And Jonnyguru mentioned that its more probable that MOSFETs explode than caps die
• need to measure the Ripple current of the cap in that area
• need to measure the temperature of the cap

So in short:
Too much hassle to do that. And in the end its no more worth than rolling the dice...

Maybe I should use the Xilence Performance X/750W in my main PC and see how well it lasts...

 

But then again, I suspect the +5VSB is the first to go. For +12V The filtering is done by small 8mm Polymer Capacitors. As is the case for minor rails...

There are however some Caps I don't really get. But then again: Are the caps the thing to go or is it something else.

 

With old PSU that used normal Power Transistors and Schottky Diodes, I can see that caps are the first to go.

But we do not use those parts in modern designs. Its exclusevely MOSFETs. For Primary Switching, for Secondary Rectification, for +5V Standby Regulation. All is done by MOSFETs...

 

1 hour ago, Rexper said:

Why OEM? Each OEM has different “lines” in their factories that essentially put more or less effort into building the PSU. And each OEM is capable of making low end and high end products.

Exactly!
Its the same with everything, even the Caps and comes down to: What are you willing to pay?

Even Manufacturers that are said to be "Crapfacturers" like Solytech can do some amazing stuff, if you ask them to do it and are willing to pay for it.

For example this beauty:

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Xilence/XQ_850W/

 

Or the Xilence Performance X Plattform is also pretty nice:

https://www.computerbase.de/2017-09/80plus-gold-netzteil-test-corsair-xilence/5/

 

It can compete with a Corsair TX...

 

Yes, there are other things to consider like if they do the PCBA themselves or order them elsewhere. That might (or not) be a disadvantage.

And how well their lines are maintained and set up, how tight the roof is and so on...

 

1 hour ago, Rexper said:

youre missing out on very important factors, electrical performance and protections. They also influence how long the PSU lasts as well as the rest of computer components.

Exactly and that are things we can actually test and rate the PSU by!!

 

So if you have the choice between:

• a PSU that has Capacitors from a japanese company but is group regulated, loud and doesn't have OCP on any rail.
• a PSU that has Capacitors from various manufacturers but is independantly regulated (maybe even 80plus Gold), rather quiet and has OCP on minor rails

Wich one would you choose?

And in China its also possible to get used Japanese caps for cheap and use them instead.

So you'd prefer caps that were soldered twice and desoldered once over new ones??

 

 

The example I mentioned above, the S12II-Bronze (up to 620W, the 750 and 850W are OK) vs the Performance X or Corsair CX or be quiet System Power 9.

I'd choose any of the other...

 

IMO Japanese Caps are mostly used for marketing and it gives you another point you can print on the Box, not because they are actually better.

As you can order good quality parts from any manufacturer you want to...

[Rude_Drum]

Building my first rig here. I already checked on a psu calculator what I need and I should be fine with a 550w. Now I found a pretty good deal on a cooler master mwe gold, except I couldn't find any in-depth reviews on it. I found some people commenting that the bronze model is pretty mediocre, but almost nothing on the gold series, so I thought I'd ask if it's a good pick  

[sosi93]

10 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

Throw a coin, if it is the Hydro G and not the Hydro GE, both are fine.

https://www.fsp-europe.com/hydro-g-650750850w/

 

So you don't do anything wrong with any of those...

No, they aren't really good.

Get one of the above ones, that's better...

Sadly the Market in some countrys is just garbage and the good stuff starts at 650W if you're lucky, sometimes even 750W...

 

And in 550W you can only get the cheap shit like the ones you mention above.

what about a used EVGA SuperNOVA 650 G2 for 68 $ ? used for 6 month

[Princess Luna]

28 minutes ago, sosi93 said:

what about a used EVGA SuperNOVA 650 G2 for 68 $ ? used for 6 month

Well that's a very good PSU it'd be a solid pick for sure, kinda bad that's used though but if have any guarantee on it... I suppose it's still a better route than getting a considerable worse product brand new.

[Stefan Payne]

30 minutes ago, sosi93 said:

what about a used EVGA SuperNOVA 650 G2 for 68 $ ? used for 6 month

How about you look at the warranty terms of the manufacturers?

In this case EVGA...

 

https://www.evga.com/warranty/power-supplies/

 

 

If it is from a Smoker -> no Warranty.

If it was a bit damp -> no Warranty

 

If it was in prestine conditions -> 3 Years instead of 10 because you didn't get it new.

[sosi93]

1 hour ago, Stefan Payne said:

How about you look at the warranty terms of the manufacturers?

In this case EVGA...

 

https://www.evga.com/warranty/power-supplies/

 

 

If it is from a Smoker -> no Warranty.

If it was a bit damp -> no Warranty

 

If it was in prestine conditions -> 3 Years instead of 10 because you didn't get it new.

EVGA products have no warranty in my country

also FSP have only 1 year warranty from a third party company

Coolermaster have 5 year from a third party company

[Rexper]

 

Here's my take on a PSU list. A list of popular power supplies world-wide in general price categories, describing the PSU's quality in different areas.

Of course those scores would be calculated where possible.

Also to give a short explanation of each factor and how they might be relevant to the reader. 

[MEC-777]

3 hours ago, Rude_Drum said:

Building my first rig here. I already checked on a psu calculator what I need and I should be fine with a 550w. Now I found a pretty good deal on a cooler master mwe gold, except I couldn't find any in-depth reviews on it. I found some people commenting that the bronze model is pretty mediocre, but almost nothing on the gold series, so I thought I'd ask if it's a good pick  

The Cooler Master MWE are not very good. Are there any other options available to you?

[Rude_Drum]

2 hours ago, MEC-777 said:

The Cooler Master MWE are not very good. Are there any other options available to you?

Yeah, I was just wondering if I could save a few bucks, but from what I've read it's better to be safe than sorry with CPUs so I'm just gonna spend a bit more and avoid anything that I'm not 100% sure of. The other cheaper option (well, that isn't so cheap that it's a red flag) seems to be the bitfenix formula, and since it's tier 2 I'll probably go with that

[MEC-777]

6 minutes ago, Rude_Drum said:

Yeah, I was just wondering if I could save a few bucks, but from what I've read it's better to be safe than sorry with CPUs so I'm just gonna spend a bit more and avoid anything that I'm not 100% sure of. The other cheaper option (well, that isn't so cheap that it's a red flag) seems to be the bitfenix formula, and since it's tier 2 I'll probably go with that

Yeah, saving a few bucks on a PSU is what killed 2 graphics cards on me many years ago. Never again, lol.   

[VictorPC]

Is using a Corsair CX650M with a Ryzen 5 2600 with a RX 590 enough to overclock the CPU to 4.2Ghz and the CPU to 1650Mhz? 

The ram I have is 16GB 2666 Corsair and the monitor im using is a MAG241c 144hz monitor 

 

Thanks

 

Edit: also i have the Hyper 212 evo all insode a H400i on a MSI B450M Mortar motherboard 

[VictorPC]

On 12/5/2018 at 2:00 PM, LienusLateTips said:

I'm looking at combining Tier 1, 2 and some of 3 into one tier, the rest of 3, 4 into another and then 5, 6. With Tier 7 still standalone as the shit-tier level.

DM me when you do this, I would appritiate it like crazy haha. I read somewhere that the only reason the corsair cx-m grey series (ex cx650m) were tier 3 was bc of the sleeve and was wondering if it was a capable psu to overclock with since i have it atm 

 

Edit: grammar 

Edited December 7, 2018 by VictorPC