[Another one] Father asks Apple to unlock his deceased child's iPhone

[thrillhouse]

1 hour ago, SansVarnic said:

This is not about making a back door such as what the FBI asked for. It simply put is unlocking the phone for the family of the child.

I'm not sure you understand, it's exactly what the FBI were after. Unlocking a phone IF it is encrypted IS decrypting it. From an objective point of view the reason doesn't matter it's building the ability to action the request which in this case is one in the same.

Apple really have no obligation of vested interest in unlocking the phone. If it could provide the photo's another way then sure what ever, but the law surrounding ownership in the US around a deceased child I could guarantee you would not cover encrypted data. Technically the father has the data in his possession on the phone physically he just can't access it due to the function of the device, all apple would be required to do is provide the data if it was backed up on their services, there's no obligation to provide it un-encrypted as they did not receive it as such.

I feel for the man I really do but I don't believe what he is asking can be done and as cold as it is I don't think it should be done. If Apple were to compromise their encryption in that way it would be a disaster waiting to happen.    

Edited April 1, 2016 by thrillhouse
Spelling Grammer

[minimalist]

Sorry, but I wouldn't want my father to see photos of my girlfriend naked and see the dirty conversations we have.  When I die, I don't want everything to be accessible to my relatives.  When I die, my information on electronics can die too.

[bobhays]

1 hour ago, Enderman said:

nah just playing devils advocate

really funny how upset people get even though they have nothing to do with this, they are neither the father nor the dead son yet they think they are white knights or something

 

Kinda like how the media talks about some news that doesnt affect you at all and people get all angry or sad or upset or whatever as if it was happening to them

That's pretty naive reasoning. Just because something doesn't affect you doesn't mean you can't react to it. Also it may not affect you now but it might down the road.

[Enderman]

1 minute ago, bobhays said:

That's pretty naive reasoning. Just because something doesn't affect you doesn't mean you can't react to it. Also it may not affect you now but it might down the road.

just because you can react to it doesnt mean you should

also most people just overreact completely

[bobhays]

Just now, Enderman said:

just because you can react to it doesnt mean you should

also most people just overreact completely

Maybe in certain cases but this is actually a more serious topic than it first seems. Unlike the previous FBI situation, more people want the iphone to be unlocked and there is good reason to, but there are two issues. First, Apple might not be able to according to their own words, and secondly if they do try to help in some other way it might undermine the success they've had against the FBI.

[Enderman]

12 minutes ago, bobhays said:

Maybe in certain cases but this is actually a more serious topic than it first seems. Unlike the previous FBI situation, more people want the iphone to be unlocked and there is good reason to, but there are two issues. First, Apple might not be able to according to their own words, and secondly if they do try to help in some other way it might undermine the success they've had against the FBI.

my point is that the father seems to be going through some extreme measures to get whatever his son had on that phone...

 will continue the battle to recover my child’s iPhone data. I will not give up

i mean its not critical information or anything, if his father wants to get into that phone so bad he must be looking for something more than "just a pic"

[Zodiark1593]

1 hour ago, minimalist said:

Sorry, but I wouldn't want my father to see photos of my girlfriend naked and see the dirty conversations we have.  When I die, I don't want everything to be accessible to my relatives.  When I die, my information on electronics can die too.

   According to the article, the son gave his father access via fingerprint authentication (suggesting the son didn't have anything questionable on the device),  but the iPhone was off when it was found, thus requiring the password to unlock.

 

   While Apple likely has the capability to dump the raw data of the flash chip via bypassing the maximum password count (though they probably will not), the data is utterly meaningless without the password to decipher it (anyone here would probably be dead before a brute-force proved successful). Bluntly put, the pictures died with Dama.

 

Sorry if I strike as cold to anyone here. my posts in this thread arise solely from logic.

[FmPhenom]

2 hours ago, Enderman said:

nah just playing devils advocate

 

Nah, you are trying to be seen as a funny douche bag.

 

I guess you think it is better o be seen as a douche bag than not to be seen at all.

 

This is a persons child.

[killcomic]

4 hours ago, ELSknutson said:

Why didnt the dad just use his sons thumb to unlock the phone. I mean its not like he needs it any more.

Wow. I bet you fap to gore too.

[Swndlr]

This isnt even a privacy issue anymore, really is moral and ethical.

A lot of people will say this is dumb and there probably isnt anything valuable on the phone (like pictures and whatnot) but I guarantee had you been in the same situation (dead mom, dad, brother, wife, whatever) you would be pleading for help from Apple, the government, someone. What if the last ever family photo you had of yourself with a dead family member was on it, and you took it like 3 days ago and they died this morning, how would you feel?

Just some food for thought.

[handymanshandle]

 

2 hours ago, ElfFriend said:

That would set a precedent, as such I think they shouldn't unlock it. People should always consider and hopefully be prepared for the worst possible situation.

I will peacefully disagree.

I think that there many reasons that the phone of a loved one should be able to be unlocked by the family so that maybe they can find some solace in whatever they can get off that phone.
I think there might be a way to balance security/privacy and a special bypass of a security.

Perhaps like the option to have your Facebook page converted into a legacy/memorial to you after you have died. In some regard implement that for when you set up the phone or security option that if in the off chance you have died a family member can recover your stuff.

 

Though in this case there might be a chance that they don't have to circumvent the security in the phone and that the data they're after might actually be on iCloud itself.

 

I do think that there is a difference between a family trying to recover pictures from a loved one who has died and a government agency trying to gain easy access into other devices.

 

[Enderman]

6 minutes ago, FmPhenom said:

Nah, you are trying to be seen as a funny douche bag.

 

I guess you think it is better o be seen as a douche bag than not to be seen at all.

 

This is a persons child.

Great post, very related to the topic, yes. 8/8

I wonder if you also say that to your parents when you disagree with them? Would your parents also snoop around all your online activity if you died?

[bobhays]

4 minutes ago, Swndlr said:

This isnt even a privacy issue anymore, really is moral and ethical.

A lot of people will say this is dumb and there probably isnt anything valuable on the phone (like pictures and whatnot) but I guarantee had you been in the same situation (dead mom, dad, brother, wife, whatever) you would be pleading for help from Apple, the government, someone. What if the last ever family photo you had of yourself with a dead family member was on it, and you took it like 3 days ago and they died this morning, how would you feel?

Just some food for thought.

I think most people can understand why, the only questions are whether it's possible, and what the consequences would be.

[Swndlr]

Just now, bobhays said:

I think most people can understand why, the only questions are whether it's possible, and what the consequences would be.

Theres not a doubt in my mind that Apple has every bit of information they need to access the phone.

Id like to say if you think otherwise, youre probably crazy.

[SansVarnic]

2 hours ago, thrillhouse said:

<snip>   

You did not read what I said, also you are mixing two threads into the same one. This thread is not about the FBI unlocking a it about a parent wanting his child's phone unlocked. Two different issues.

I fully understand what is going on here and your explanation is incorrect.

What you are missing from what I said is this; I do not support Apple making a back door nor did I say I did. I said I support Apple unlocking the the phone (completely different thing) for the family since it is their property.

 

Read my reply from the other thread; <Click picture to enlarge>

 

*edit 

Next time I suggest you be a bit less hasty in your response.

[Tocsin_786]

4 hours ago, Enderman said:

you dont get over something by hoarding memories and photos of the past

note: I like how your profile picture blends with the LTT dark theme background. 

 

Back on topic: I think everyone handles death differently. Some people like to keep an item that reminds them of the deceased, others want to forget and move on, and others cant handle it at all and hoard all the deceased persons stuffs. 

[Enderman]

1 minute ago, Tocsin_786 said:

note: I like how your profile picture blends with the LTT dark theme background. 

 

Back on topic: I think everyone handles death differently. Some people like to keep an item that reminds them of the deceased, others want to forget and move on, and others cant handle it at all and hoard all the deceased persons stuffs. 

yeah but doing everything possible to get someone's private online activity is not really correct...even if you are a legal guardian

 

if it was a case of cyberbullying or something that caused his death then sure, go look and try to find who did it, but this doesnt seem to be the case here

[Tocsin_786]

1 minute ago, Enderman said:

yeah but doing everything possible to get someone's private online activity is not really correct...even if you are a legal guardian

 

if it was a case of cyberbullying or something that caused his death then sure, go look and try to find who did it, but this doesnt seem to be the case here

People like you and me may have a lot of online profiles, registered payment systems and email and alot of other private information which can still be very handy for people who want to take advantage. Just incase I ever die I have told my cousin how to delete most of my online stuff. but what if this guys father wanted to do the same thing but his son kept his logins private. This can be a good way to get rid of his stuff online. 

[Enderman]

5 minutes ago, Tocsin_786 said:

People like you and me may have a lot of online profiles, registered payment systems and email and alot of other private information which can still be very handy for people who want to take advantage. Just incase I ever die I have told my cousin how to delete most of my online stuff. but what if this guys father wanted to do the same thing but his son kept his logins private. This can be a good way to get rid of his stuff online. 

also i think some people believe getting every last piece of information from a lost one will help them cope or something, when it just makes you feel more regret and sadness

 

[Tocsin_786]

2 minutes ago, Enderman said:

also i think some people believe getting every last piece of information from a lost one will help them or something, when it just makes you feel more regret and sadness

 

yea that's true  I also feel that once you obtain such "memories" they will soon be forgotten or not be looked at after a few weeks. 

[FmPhenom]

21 minutes ago, Enderman said:

Great post, very related to the topic, yes. 8/8

I wonder if you also say that to your parents when you disagree with them? Would your parents also snoop around all your online activity if you died?

If it was a subject that I felt deeply about concerning my children, I would have no problem calling my parents douche bags.

Would my parents snoop? How the fuck would I know?

3 minutes ago, Enderman said:

also i think some people believe getting every last piece of information from a lost one will help them cope or something, when it just makes you feel more regret and sadness

 

So you are Professor X and can read minds? You have no clue what would help that father cope.

[SansVarnic]

A lot of the points made thus far are mute and a lot are good. The point is the child was 13 tears old. A minor.

There should not be anything on that phone that should be considered "incriminating" per say. (Yes I know what goes through the mind of a 13 year old boy, I was one myself)

Yes I am a father and even though my children are not yet 13, unless they are 18 and considered an adult, nothing will be locked from their mother or I for then sake of their safety. I have no shame in saying I will monitor what they do and how they do it until they are 18 because I am whether I like it or not am responsible for their actions until they can stand on their own as an adult legally. The argument of privacy from parents is a foolish argument and if someone cannot accept that then I feel for you for you are missing a great deal. I know someone will attempt point out that I am wrong and that i am the overbearing parent but apparently they have no understanding of what it is to be a parent. Each child is different, yes I agree, so each child needs only so much guidance and supervision; to much and you strangle the child; not enuf and the child is lost to you. A good healthy amount of supervision on your child is enough that your child knows that they will be held accountable for wrong doing and that means always knowing what they are doing, including electronically.

 

I also do agree that getting the pictures will not bring the dead back. BUT it will help with the coping and dealing with the loss of their son. I know many a parent that if it was not for the family album to look at the photos of the lost child, coping with the loss would have been harder. Having served during a war I have seen family member greiving over the loss of their son from a battle and it is hard to overcome. The human mind has a way of blocking the memory of the loved one lost and photos have a way of helping to mend that loss, even if it is a small mend.

Sorry @Enderman but you are wrong on this. I do not know how old you are but you are out of your league on this. 

[Yoinkerman]

40 minutes ago, Swndlr said:

This isnt even a privacy issue anymore, really is moral and ethical.

A lot of people will say this is dumb and there probably isnt anything valuable on the phone (like pictures and whatnot) but I guarantee had you been in the same situation (dead mom, dad, brother, wife, whatever) you would be pleading for help from Apple, the government, someone. What if the last ever family photo you had of yourself with a dead family member was on it, and you took it like 3 days ago and they died this morning, how would you feel?

Just some food for thought.

There is nothing I will ever need on my wife's phone.  I have my own with which I take pictures.

[Enderman]

12 minutes ago, SansVarnic said:

Sorry @Enderman but you are wrong on this. I do not know how old you are but you are out of your league on this. 

"OH look someone has a different opinion then me, they are wrong"

 

lol go get a life if you seriously are gullible enough to believe the father "just wants to look at photos" 

its pretty obvious he wants to stalk everything that kid has done online

 will continue the battle to recover my child’s iPhone data. I will not give up

"DATA" aka EVERYTHING

he really needs some therapy if someone else's private conversations are so necessary to him

you cant expect someone who has gone through something like that to be thinking straight, do you?

[Bensemus]

Apple has already explained many times that they can't decrypt a locked iPhone running iOS 8 or 9. Apple had to say no as they don't have the passcode and don't currently have any way to decrypt an iOS device. The father should go after the company the FBI used as they seem to have found a security breach. This is identical to the FBI asking Apple to decrypt the terrorists iPhone. If Apple had a way to unlock the phone for the father then that same method would work for the FBI. Seeing as Apple was willing to go to court with the FBI I think it's pretty safe to say Apple was telling the truth that they don't have a way to decrypt iOS devices.