Using a 5 year old PC is really sad according to Apple

[Kamina]

It's sad to their wallets.

[Sevilla]

44 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

You and this thread as a whole are taking the comment to be referencing enthusiast grade hardware and enthusiast grade use cases. But neither is the case, at least not in my opinion. As far as I'm concerned he's stating that an iPad pro is superior to a five year old computer running a celeron/pentium/c2d/c2q/i3 with <= 4gb ram, a slow ass HDD, and a "cumbersome" interface. Which is a very accurate statement. Assuming that your parents, my parents, or the average user -- who is just using their device to check email, browse the Internet, or watch Netflix -- knows iOS and Windows equally, then they will be able to do all of the aforementioned tasks faster and have an easier time doing them on a tablet. That doesn't mean the old hardware is incapable of completing those same tasks, it just means it's not as good -- which it's not. 

I'm looking at it from the perspective that a 5 year old machine can and is in fact still viable in many case scenarios. Enthusiast performance is not even in question at this point. As a matter of fact, the only thing you'd need to do to a 5 year old machine is as simple as drop in an SSD.

 

I think we're breaking the argument into sub-categories that needed not be explored anyway because at face value, yeah, an iPad, or a Galaxy Tab S2, or an iPhone would outdo any 5 year old computer, heck, they can outdo your Walmart special i3 laptop manufactured less than a year ago. That's not the point though. The point is and always was that the original statement made was a bold assessment of what Apple sees aging PCs as, as well as their users.
 

[Lethal Seraph]

Of course 5 years is too old for someone who sells 'New' product with minimal upgrade every 6 months.

[Tenelia]

Look at Gil Amelio's book "On the Firing Line: My 500 Days at Apple". He's explained it in the same terms that other hardware and software developers have done: Consumers who hold onto old hardware/software make it impossible for the industry/company to implement new standards that have progressed in different ways.

 

Software doesn't only get faster or more stable, but software gets leaner (smaller) and more features as well. This is especially important when security updates may only be compatible with new software/hardware architecture. I find it completely hypocritical that people could bash Apple for encouraging its users to keep pace with new hardware, while console gamers, users of old Android hardware/software, etc can get away scot-free.

 

Wanna know why we don't get all the good things from all those new research news articles? Cause an overwhelming number of people stick to old hardware/software. That means a majority of startups get nowhere with their products, and major businesses eventually become monopolies or oligarchies.

[RagnarokDel]

Yo Apple, if your POS new hardware didn't throttle all the way down to duo-core days, maybe people would upgrade

[79wjd]

9 minutes ago, RagnarokDel said:

Yo Apple, if your POS new hardware didn't throttle all the way down to duo-core days, maybe people would upgrade

And if you did some research maybe you wouldn't make such stupid comments.

 

But probably not.

[ApolloEleven]

But their computers could barely play games compared to a 5 year old PC (since they keep using mobile GPUs)

My dad still uses a 10 year old Dell computer that he got from his workplace, we added my old R9 270X in it and now it can watch YouTube without dropping frames.

[fojacko]

Pretty hypocritical, when you consider this is coming from the company not even using the latest cpu technology in their desktop PC's, its not even like the new cpus cost that much more. Just that they can probably buy the older stock for much, much cheaper in bulk so they can make their profit margin higher.

[zMeul]

my PC is not 5y old, but 7 - I feel sad too, I also accept donations

maybe Apple will lighten up by donating some of their money trucks towards me

[Klerk]

Of course they will say this, they want to sell you a new computer every year.

[RagnarokDel]

1 hour ago, djdwosk97 said:

And if you did some research maybe you wouldn't make such stupid comments.

 

But probably not.

macbook 2015 throttles all the way down to 900mhz under heavy load, LTT literally did a video on this. What about a 2 cores/4 threads cpu running at  900 mhz clock speed doesnt strike you as duo-core like?

[Blake]

11 hours ago, Sevilla said:

-snip-

As others have said, nothing 'sad' about it, they just want to make some more profit on their products that they mark up by ~100% more then competitors.

[AyeJayKay]

I really hope Apple updates the MacBook Air with a Retina display or if they want to go down the MacBook route make it more powerful along with some more ports.

 

I will be a very happy camper and will fork over the premium money for premium machines.

[AlTech]

15 hours ago, shdowhunt60 said:

There's nothing "sad" about it. That's just the reality of the matter. Software demands for the consumer market haven't been escalating to the point where hardware is getting left behind. There's a video on YouTube of the 8-bit Guy installing Windows 10 on a Core Duo Macbook from 2005, and it ran fine all things considered.

 

I mean, let's face it. Most people just use PC's as a telecommunications device. Go on the web, browse web pages, scroll down Facebook and Twitter, etc. etc. Type out a document in word, make a spreadsheet in Excel. That's not something that necessarily demands a ton of hardware grunt. The fact that machines like Ultrabooks and Chromebooks exist is the silent acknowledgement of this: devices that focus on reducing power draw as much as possible to try and maximize battery life to its fullest exists in a thin and light form factor. Even Intel's Core M was explicitly designed and marketed for this purpose.

 

Even in your example of the Macbook Pro vs the XPS, those machines are focused on much the same just only with more powerful hardware. And they're good machines, you can do things like edit 4k content and game on those. They cost a premium, but they're premium machines in the first place.

The only things I use which need Hardware grunt is CAD, and gaming but then again. I don't really game on my laptop.

 

I mean Hardware acceleration is a thing in web browsers and Spotify and office but still.

[ShadowCaptain]

6 hours ago, djdwosk97 said:

And if you did some research maybe you wouldn't make such stupid comments.

 

But probably not.

 

I give up discussing Apple in topics now, ive spent enough time defending them to just give up now

Ignorance will always be a thing
 

[79wjd]

2 hours ago, ShadowCaptain said:

 

I give up discussing Apple in topics now, ive spent enough time defending them to just give up now

Ignorance will always be a thing
 

I keep saying that....yet here I am.

 

Maybe one day I'll just do anindepth comparison comparing Apple products to literally every one of its competing products as well as actual performance benchmarks and just link it to everyone who decides to make some stupid unfounded comment.

[suicidalfranco]

17 hours ago, djdwosk97 said:

Most people (those who could use an iPad in place of a computer) aren't going to be upgrading anything themselves. 

that's what computer sops are for too, unless Apple start generating error 53s  even on replaced hard drives and ram sticks

[79wjd]

1 minute ago, suicidalfranco said:

that's what computer sops are for too, unless Apple start generating error 53s  even on replaced hard drives and ram sticks

But realize that for most people upgrading isn't a viable option. For one, I can't think of s single computer store near me other than Best Buy (and it's not like I live in the middle of nowhere). Secondly, a lot of places would upgrade the wrong thing or try to sell you a new computer anyway. Thirdly, a lot of people simply assume their computer is just too old to be fixed or that there's nothing wrong with it. 

[ShadowCaptain]

6 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

I keep saying that....yet here I am.

 

Maybe one day I'll just do anindepth comparison comparing Apple products to literally every one of its competing products as well as actual performance benchmarks and just link it to everyone who decides to make some stupid unfounded comment.

 

id be happy to help, but people are hard to talk to

Computers are like cars, and there is a personal taste and passion that is hard to discuss regarding facts and figures

like if you told me a Vauxhall Astra was more reliable, and had more equipment than my Audi A4 i would still not want to swap, because I wouldnt want that brand etc

same with computers, especially since its hard to be qualitative with OSX vs Windows

Comparing Windows PC A, with PC B, is  simpler tasks, as performance is a directly relocatable thing

Example, if I want to run OSX and iOS then the fastest PC in the world and the best android phone being 10% of the cost still does not do what i want it to do

people need to understand that Price:Performance ratio is only ONE aspect of a computer

[suicidalfranco]

3 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

But realize that for most people upgrading isn't a viable option. For one, I can't think of s single computer store near me other than Best Buy (and it's not like I live in the middle of nowhere). Secondly, a lot of places would upgrade the wrong thing or try to sell you a new computer anyway. Thirdly, a lot of people simply assume their computer is just too old to be fixed or that there's nothing wrong with it. 

when i say computer shops i also talk about repair shops, you know those theat go around leaving fliers promising that they will take your laptop and make it fast again, maybe that be just a software maintenance, dust cleaning or part upgrades.

[79wjd]

5 minutes ago, ShadowCaptain said:

 

id be happy to help, but people are hard to talk to

Computers are like cars, and there is a personal taste and passion that is hard to discuss regarding facts and figures

like if you told me a Vauxhall Astra was more reliable, and had more equipment than my Audi A4 i would still not want to swap, because I wouldnt want that brand etc

same with computers, especially since its hard to be qualitative with OSX vs Windows

Comparing Windows PC A, with PC B, is  simpler tasks, as performance is a directly relocatable thing

Example, if I want to run OSX and iOS then the fastest PC in the world and the best android phone being 10% of the cost still does not do what i want it to do

people need to understand that Price:Performance ratio is only ONE aspect of a computer

If I end up writing something up I'll let you know. 

 

No doubt, I've basically been called an idiot for owning an a4 in the past as it's "just an overpriced Camry". Well, I can safely that premium cars have an entirely different feel to them when driving and are worth every penny if you can afford it (I'd take a used a4 over pretty much anything new in the budget range (15-25k). 

 

I I still don't know why I prefer OS X to Windows, but I do, for whatever reason, enjoy using  OS X on a laptop more than Windows).

1 minute ago, suicidalfranco said:

when i say computer shops i also talk about repair shops, you know those theat go around leaving fliers promising that they will take your laptop and make it fast again, maybe that be just a software maintenance, dust cleaning or part upgrades.

I also don't actually know of any repair shops other than Best Buy/micro center. With that said, I feel like most computer repairs, in my area anyway, are done by friends/family who are "good with computers". And from my experience, most of them don't actually know how to make a computer faster. But even assuming competent help, repair shops are still somewhat expensive (cheaper than an iPad sure, but still expensive) and most people wouldn't even think to upgrade something, they just assume it's showing its age. And even if they thought about upgrading, the thought of buying a new device for $600 ($400 for the air 2) is probably more compelling then trying to fix an old device for $100-200 (especially when they're likely not confident the upgrade/fix would improve anything anyway).

[Sevilla]

Anytime anyone has asked me how to make a computer faster, I always say you can't make it any faster than how fast it was when you 1st got it unless you want to do hardware upgrades. Our perception of "fast computing" evolves the more machines we use or encounter on a daily basis. Back when I had my Pentium 4, I considered it really fast. Oddly enough, I still have that Pentium 4 (sentimental reasons more than anything) and it's hellishly slow by my perception of how fast computers should be.

 

I guess that's what happens when your main PC uses dual SSDs in RAID 0 as opposed to an ancient IDE drive.

[ybriK]

Watch my ancient 2700K + 290X destroy their iMacs.

[Sevilla]

11 hours ago, Tenelia said:

Look at Gil Amelio's book "On the Firing Line: My 500 Days at Apple". He's explained it in the same terms that other hardware and software developers have done: Consumers who hold onto old hardware/software make it impossible for the industry/company to implement new standards that have progressed in different ways.

 

Software doesn't only get faster or more stable, but software gets leaner (smaller) and more features as well. This is especially important when security updates may only be compatible with new software/hardware architecture. I find it completely hypocritical that people could bash Apple for encouraging its users to keep pace with new hardware, while console gamers, users of old Android hardware/software, etc can get away scot-free.

 

Wanna know why we don't get all the good things from all those new research news articles? Cause an overwhelming number of people stick to old hardware/software. That means a majority of startups get nowhere with their products, and major businesses eventually become monopolies or oligarchies.

I will definitely look into that book, it sounds like an interesting read.

 

I agree that changes need to happen in order for innovation and technological progress to take place, I don't believe anyone is in denial of that. I don't agree, however, with the notion that people who hang on to old technology are part of the reason why it's so difficult to implement new standards. I firmly believe a huge part of the reason why people hang on to old hardware has a lot to do with our economy and the monetary value placed on these advancement by huge companies like Apple. I also feel that the blame for lack of innovation shouldn't be placed on the consumer, but rather the huge companies making huge profits on our keen desire to stay at the current pace of technology.

 

Take any hardware sold by any major tech company (we won't talk software because you need hardware to run your software), and look at it a year later and how it's considered obsolete. People change their cellphones almost every year, they upgrade CPUs, graphics cards, tablets, and several as the like as soon as they can afford it. That's the key right there, "afford it." I am not poor, but I cannot afford to buy a new iPhone every year, I cannot afford to buy a new CPU every year, I cannot afford to buy a new car every few years (don't get me started on leasing a car). Realistically, probably 90+ percent of people can because they are either living paycheck to paycheck, or because they are conscious consumers who will hang on to that 3 year old cellphone or 4 year old PC because it fits their needs and they don't have to shell out more money for an upgrade with monthly payment installments. 

Innovation has its place, but companies that take advantage of consumer with new shinny things need to be kept in check. You know who is doing it right? Take a company like OnePlus, they sell you excellent devices for a reasonable price. They maybe aren't making the next "force touch" or "3D touch" phone, maybe they don't try to have a DSLR-quality camera on their phones, but they make them at a fair price for a consumer, an average consumer with "average" income. Now take a look at a company like Samsung*. Their TouchWiz UI is crap, bulky, bloated, slow. How did they "fix" it? They added an extra gig of RAM on most of their phones, trimmed a bit off the fat, and called it a day. If they cannot be bothered to make a lean UI to go over an Android OS that won't bog down the phone, but will make sure I can use my fingerprint can be read, I can store my credit card in it to make purchases, or take amazing selfies. It's not right, specially when we pay 700+ dollars of a phone. I deserve, as a consumer, for it to last me a few years before 3 more newer shinier iterations are made and not have my phone ignored on updates 2 years after its release. Side note: a Galaxy SIII running Cyanogenmod runs amazingly fast.

It is not us who should be blamed for slowing down new technology and its adoption, but rather it is software/hardware companies who need to understand that I don't want to pay 700+ dollars every year for a new tablet or phone, and shouldn't have to because every device they make should be able to stand the test of time. I shouldn't have to pay for their shortcomings. These days every tech company releases a new version of their current products the moment a slight improvement is made at the cost of us, the consumers. 

I want to buy a tablet/phone/PC and not have to worry about shelling out several hundreds of dollars a year later for a slight speed bump or a new feature falsely labeled as a "must have." I'd be perfectly happy, and significantly more respectful of the type of advancements and innovation companies like Apple made if their upgrades were substantial and several years apart.

But as I said in my initial post, to each their own, and anyone can spend their money how they want. Us who have older hardware taking the blame for hindering innovation and advancements, however, I don't think so.

*I own a Note 5, only after leaving my 3 year old Nexus 5 to retire in greener pastures.

[bcredeur97]

umm my dad is using a macbook pro from 2009... still works fine for what he needs it for... just threw an ssd in there and maxed out the memory. it's perfect.

 

so.... ha