[update] after July 17 2017, MicroSoft to support new CPUs only on W10

[Dabombinable]

OK. Windows 10 is looking more dangerous.

[deviant88]

what exactly I didn't read or you think I didn't understood?!

that MS will maybe grant extended support to enterprise on case by case - and that will cost them shit tons of money

as for the end user, yes, if you have a CPU released after July 17th 2017 you won't be able to install W7 and/or W8.1 to that system

 

I dont think so, you can take earliest version of W7 without updates and install the latest skylake with it, wont have support for everything on that motherboard etc but it will work no problem, with vendor drivers, i think for x86 they use a generic cpu driver if they dont have a specific one preinstalled or from updates.

Probably they just wont offer support for future platforms on w7/8 and if there are any security problems or compatibility issues with new features or chipset you will have to upgrade, thats what  i understand from this news, theres no way they can block new cpu's from working on w7/8 unless they make a dirty deal with intel to modify something in the chips that breaks compatibility with generic cpu drivers in 7/8 thats the only case that would make sense.And what about amd i doubt they will be in for this aswell.

[SeriousDad69]

Luddites always need a good kick in the pants. If some people had their way we'd still be using horse & buggies and Windows XP.

[LAwLz]

This sounds really strange. I've read several articles regarding this because it makes no sense. It's not news that some new features such as Intel Speed Shift has only been supported on older versions of Windows, but this article mentions things like security updates as well.

So is Microsoft going to prematurely end support for security updates for Windows 7 and 8.1 computers which has Skylake or newer CPUs? That's terrible news absolutely God awful. If all this about "deeper integration with the silicon" is true, then we might be moving towards a situation similar to what we have on smartphones, aka the extreme fragmentation issue. So two computers with the same OS but different hardware won't get the same security support (like on Android phones for example).

 

If that is what's going on then I'd be really pissed if I were Intel.

Let's all hope this is just Microsoft being terrible at explaining themselves (like always) and what they actually meant to say is "We just want to remind everyone that we will not be backporting new hardware features such as Intel Speed Shift to Windows 7. We will only release security updates.".

 
 
Also, I really laughed when I saw this part in the Microsoft blog post:

As we’ve done since the beginning of our work with Windows 10, we want to communicate transparently with our customers on what they can expect from their experience on Windows, with a focus on Windows and silicon.

Microsoft has been about as transparent as a brick wall when it comes to Windows 10.

[zMeul]

there's no way they can block new cpu's from working on w7/8 unless they make a dirty deal with intel to modify something in the chips that breaks compatibility with generic cpu drivers in 7/8 thats the only case that would make sense.And what about amd i doubt they will be in for this aswell.

I'm guessing at this point, but mobo manufacturers and BIOS/UEFI coders could integrate a version 2 that will simply cut out W7/8.1

who are the promoting members of UEFI? AMD, Intel, MS http://www.uefi.org/members

tied in with this, CoreBoot might not even make it: http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/525280-its-possible-amd-dropped-support-for-coreboot-in-upcoming-zen-cpus/

 

by simply cutting out legacy support from UEFI, Windows 7 (32bit) would be rendered useless

same thing with enabling fast boot, W7 x64 would be done

 

---

 

MS is getting really desperate to sell W10 licences and upgrade licences from W7/8.1

[NeatSquidYT]

Oh hey OSX! Oh your efficient and your memory usage is world best. Well oh steam! That is a lot of OSX games. Boy windows is getting bad

wat.

And I'm never switching to OSX. Never. 

 

Swearing is technically against the CoC

Last time I checked, it was cussing which (to an English person) means swearing in an aggressive way to another person. I may be completely wrong though. Nobody cares though, even mods and admins swear on the forum.

[Humbug]

as new silicon generations are introduced, they will require the latest Windows platform at that time for support. This enables us to focus on deep integration between Windows and the silicon, while maintaining maximum reliability and compatibility with previous generations of platform and silicon. For example, Windows 10 will be the only supported Windows platform on Intel’s upcoming “Kaby Lake” silicon, Qualcomm’s upcoming “8996” silicon, and AMD’s upcoming “Bristol Ridge” silicon.

A bit confused. So regarding Bristol Ridge (AMD Zen); if that CPU supports roughly the same x86-64 instruction set as current CPUs then what is to stop it from running windows 7? Does Microsoft really have to tune for specific CPU architectures making official support more difficult?

 

I guess the answer is like they say they want to focus on 'deep integration between windows and the silicon'. What does that entail?

[zMeul]

A bit confused. So regarding Bristol Ridge (AMD Zen); if that CPU supports roughly the same x86-64 instruction set as current CPUs then what is to stop it from running windows 7? Does Microsoft really have to tune for specific CPU architectures making official support more difficult?

 

I guess the answer is like they say they want to focus on 'deep integration between windows and the silicon'. What does that entail?

new CPUs often need microcode updates to function properly or to bypass erratas

 

there are two ways to deploy micro-code, via a BIOS/UEFI update or via a OS update - depends what exactly needs to be "fixed"

MS has it in their power to not issue these micro code updates to old OSes, like W7/8.1

 

---

 

Bristol Ridge will be AMD's lineup of Zen APUs; the Zen CPUs will be Summit Ridge, to be released earlier

[LAwLz]

I'm guessing at this point, but mobo manufacturers and BIOS/UEFI coders could integrate a version 2 that will simply cut out W7/8.1

who are the promoting members of UEFI? AMD, Intel, MS http://www.uefi.org/members

tied in with this, CoreBoot might not even make it: http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/525280-its-possible-amd-dropped-support-for-coreboot-in-upcoming-zen-cpus/

 

by simply cutting out legacy support from UEFI, Windows 7 (32bit) would be rendered useless

same thing with enabling fast boot, W7 x64 would be done

 

---

 

MS is getting really desperate to sell W10 licences and upgrade licences from W7/8.1

I doubt that will happen, but Microsoft certainly has the power to do it. There are actually several ways they could block out all OSes that are not Windows 10. Legacy support is one way, but simply enforcing secure boot would be another. They have already remove the requirement that all UEFIs needed to have a switch for turning it on/off. So now you could end up buying a motherboard that will only support OSes that are signed by Microsoft.

 

We are quickly heading towards a future where consumers has less and less choice, and both software and hardware companies seems very happy with that trend.

[TheGamingBarrel]

How does that work? Pretty sure windows xp was not coded for a 4790k ever but it still works

6700K Works with some mods.

[givingtnt]

ppppft if they think they can prevent me fom using 3.1 and play the best of entertainement packs games.... you smelly microsoft.. i ill show ya !

[thexzenon]

I don't really see a problem with this. Windows 10 is clearly an upgrade over 7 and 8.1 (which was also better than 7), people just like to complain about anything related to it.

[Trixanity]

From what I understand this has always been Microsoft's policy. They're just publically stating it for the first time.

They're not blocking older operating systems running new hardware. They're just not gonna update older operating systems to provide official support. Since x86 processors are generally very backwards compatible, expect your new hardware to work with windows 7 but don't expect new features to work on those systems. This could mean stuff like speedshift or new instruction sets like avx (or newer versions of it) or even new power states.

Microsoft's statement was pretty vague but there's seriously some unfounded FUD being spread in thread. Also, as far as I know, it's not like other operating systems don't use the same SOP.

[NumLock21]

Here is my understanding of what they're talking about

 

Windows 10 Embracing Silicon Innovation

By Terry Myerson / Executive Vice President, Windows and Devices Group

Last week at CES we were excited to see Windows 10 devices from many of our partners, including Acer, Asus, Dell, HP, Lenovo, LG, Samsung, and Toshiba win over 50 major awards, including Best of CES, Best 2-in-1, Best Gaming Laptop and many more. It has been awesome to welcome hundreds of new Windows 10 devices – adding even more options for people choosing Windows 10 around the world. This builds on the momentum we’ve seen, with over 200 million active devices already running Windows 10 and unprecedented demand from our enterprise customers.

We’re humbled by this early success and we’re grateful to our partners who are helping make it happen. In addition to our OEM partners, throughout the design of Windows 10, we’ve been working closely with our silicon partners, including Intel, AMD, NVidia, and Qualcomm, on collaborative engineering to ensure Windows 10 takes full advantage of new silicon features. We continue to partner with these companies on their roadmaps, to achieve breakthroughs in performance, imaging, connectivity, power, graphics, and more as the Windows platform evolves with them. The modern computing world is being defined by this deep integration between silicon, platform, and hardware and we are excited by the joint innovations ahead with these partners. Always, we want Windows to lead in both adoption of new silicon innovation and also product quality. This is the dual goal that drives our investments and focus.

We are particularly excited about the work we’ve done with Intel on their new 6^th generation Intel Core processors (code named “Skylake”). Compared to Windows 7 PC’s, Skylake when combined with Windows 10, enables up to 30x better graphics and 3x the battery life – with the unmatched security of Credential Guard utilizing silicon supported virtualization. We and our partners are continuing to invest, innovate, and update to drive continued performance improvements across Windows 10 and Skylake devices.

As we approach Intel’s Business Launch for Skylake, we’d like to share more details on our recommendations for enterprise customers on Windows 10 and Windows 7 and Windows 8.1, including clarifications to our support policy. As we’ve done since the beginning of our work with Windows 10, we want to communicate transparently with our customers on what they can expect from their experience on Windows, with a focus on Windows and silicon.

We’re pleased to work with our industry partners on expanding the number of commercial Windows devices:

“Alongside Microsoft and Intel, we are delivering innovation worthy of a new generation of computing,” said Jeff Clarke, Vice Chairman, Operations and President, Client Solutions, Dell. “We are deeply invested in delivering incredible experiences on our award-winning XPS products and Precision workstations and newly launched Latitude notebooks and Optiplex desktops that give customers the very best of Windows 10 and Skylake. For enterprise customers who want the benefits of Skylake advances on earlier versions of Windows, we have services to help in their migration planning and implementation. We will partner closely with Microsoft to ensure we’re delivering the secure and reliable experiences our customers expect.”

 “We are excited about the new generation of computing enabled by Intel 6^th generation Core processors and Windows 10,” said Ron Coughlin, President, Personal Systems at HP Inc. “Our new device line-up, including the HP Elite X2, HP EliteBook Folio and HP EliteBook 1040 G3 takes advantage of these most advanced capabilities to deliver terrific experiences for our customers. We’re also pleased to be working closely with Microsoft to ensure enterprise customers purchasing new devices with earlier versions of Windows and Intel 6^th generation Core processors have a secure and reliable experience. We are jointly dedicated to delivering solutions for our customers in this new generation of computing.”

“Lenovo is committed to driving innovation and is inspired by the technology advances enabled by Windows 10 and 6^th generation Intel Core processors. Our newest products, such as ThinkPad X1 and Lenovo YOGA, are designed to deliver significant new capabilities to customers around the world,” said Gerry Smith, COO Lenovo PC, Enterprise and Global Operations, executive vice president, Lenovo. “We applaud Microsoft’s commitment to helping all of their customers take advantage of the Windows operating system family and in particular, leveraging the latest innovations on new Windows 10 devices. We will continue to work alongside Microsoft and Intel to ensure customers maintain the highest level of confidence in the security, reliability and performance of devices running on Windows and Intel platforms.”

“We share Microsoft’s commitment to delivering quality experiences on Windows, while ushering in a new era of innovation with our 6^th generation Intel Core processors,” said Kirk Skaugen, Senior Vice President, General Manager PC Client Group at Intel. “These new processors set a new standard for PC performance – blazing fast and feature packed with built-in security. Combined with new features from Windows 10 like Windows Hello and Cortana, people can have unmatched productivity while they work and play on the go. We look forward to continuing our strong partnership with Microsoft and share their strong commitment to our joint customers.”

Helping Enterprise Customers Prepare for Next Generation Processors on Windows 10

As we prepare for the adoption of new devices within our enterprise customer base, we’re excited that we’re seeing the fastest ever adoption of Windows 10, with more than 76% of our enterprise customers in active pilots and over 22 million devices running Windows 10 across enterprise and education customers. Windows 10 was designed as an in-place upgrade for our enterprise customers, and we are excited about an incredible line-up of Windows 10 devices from our partners. We’re excited to hear the feedback from our customers on their rapid move to Windows 10, including:

“Windows 10 promises to provide us with the tools that we need to respond to today’s new security threats – right out of the box. The best part of Windows 10 is getting new features on our devices every few months, and monthly security updates. The newest technology is simply delivered to us – something we have never been able to do on our own in the past.” Dorothy Stephenson, Director, ITS – Kimberly-Clark

“Our last operating system upgrade, rolled out to 50,000 desktops and devices, took us almost 3 years. We will roll out Windows 10 to 20,000 devices in 4 months with a much better user experience.” Mike Brett, General Manager, ICT Infrastructure – Australian Government Department of Human Services

“Windows 10 brings a new set of capabilities for identity, information protection and malware resistance. This will help remove reliance on third party security solutions and give NASCAR an end-to-end safe and secure computing environment.” Steve Worling, Managing Director, NASCAR Information Services

Just PR talk saying how much improvement and security it bring when you upgrade your system to a Intel Skylake processor and Microsoft Windows 10. They're targeting at the enterprise customers, since they rarely do upgrades or take a extremely long time to get every system upgraded to the latest OS. With Windows 10, the upgrading process is a lot quicker. Then we have OEM joining in on the PR talking saying how their devices are ready for it, blah blah blah.

 

 

solutions and give NASCAR an end-to-end safe and secure computing environment.” Steve Worling, Managing Director, NASCAR Information Services Our Commitment to Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 Customers

At the same time, we know many of these customers continue to rely on Windows 7 for its well understood reliability and compatibility. Windows 7 was designed nearly 10 years ago before any x86/x64 SOCs existed. For Windows 7 to run on any modern silicon, device drivers and firmware need to emulate Windows 7’s expectations for interrupt processing, bus support, and power states- which is challenging for WiFi, graphics, security, and more. As partners make customizations to legacy device drivers, services, and firmware settings, customers are likely to see regressions with Windows 7 ongoing servicing.

We want to help our customers prepare for their Windows 10 upgrade. To do that, we will deliver a list of specific new Skylake devices we will support to run Windows 7 and Windows 8.1. This approach ensures our customers can upgrade now to new devices their employees will love while preparing for a Windows 10 upgrade. We will post this list next week and it will continue to be updated as we work closely with our partners. For the listed systems, along with our OEM partners, we will perform special testing to help future proof customers’ investments, ensure regular validation of Windows Updates with the intent of reducing potential regressions including security concerns, and ensure all drivers will be on Windows Update with published BIOS/UEFI upgrading tools, which will help unlock the security and power management benefits of Windows 10 once the systems are upgraded. We’re grateful to the strong cooperation from our partners to support our customers.

This is nothing new, it's always been like this, and has nothing do with upgrading to Windows 10 or getting a Intel Skylake cpu. It's basically device driver support. When you buy a laptop or prebuilt desktop, the device drivers provided is only for the OS that it came with. Now when you want to do a downgrade or change to another OS, you can do so, but then all of your components will not work, since there is no driver support for it. This is why, there are selected business models of laptops, not sure about prebuilt desktops, where it says comes with Windows 10, along with Windows 7 or 8/8.1 downgrade, for customers who needs it, by having this at least you will know, there are device driver support for other OS. The other simple way of finding out is, before you buy it, Go to the support page of the model you're looking at and check out their driver download page. Select the OS you want to install and see if there are drivers for it.

 

Support Policy Updates for Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 Customers

With Windows 7 now in extended support, we are focused on our commitment to deliver security, reliability, and compatibility to our installed base on their current systems. Redesigning Windows 7 subsystems to embrace new generations of silicon would introduce churn into the Windows 7 code base, and would break this commitment. Thus, today we are clarifying our Windows support policy:

• Windows 7 will continue to be supported for security, reliability, and compatibility through January 14, 2020 on previous generation silicon. Windows 8.1 will receive the same support through January 10, 2023. This includes most of the devices available for purchase today by consumers or enterprises.
• Going forward, as new silicon generations are introduced, they will require the latest Windows platform at that time for support. This enables us to focus on deep integration between Windows and the silicon, while maintaining maximum reliability and compatibility with previous generations of platform and silicon. For example, Windows 10 will be the only supported Windows platform on Intel’s upcoming “Kaby Lake” silicon, Qualcomm’s upcoming “8996” silicon, and AMD’s upcoming “Bristol Ridge” silicon.
• Through July 17, 2017, Skylake devices on the supported list will also be supported with Windows 7 and 8.1. During the 18-month support period, these systems should be upgraded to Windows 10 to continue receiving support after the period ends. After July 2017, the most critical Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 security updates will be addressed for these configurations, and will be released if the update does not risk the reliability or compatibility of the Windows 7/8.1 platform on other devices.

In clarifying this policy, we are prioritizing transparency with enterprises on where to find the highest reliability and best supported Windows experience:  Windows 10 on any silicon, Windows 7 on the down-level silicon it was designed for, or a device on the support list. Although this silicon and platform alignment is entirely consistent with modern technology trends, we understand the need for our enterprise customers to adapt to it in the Windows context— and we stand by ready to partner with them on their Windows deployments. Companies of any size interested in upgrading to Windows 10 should contact their Microsoft technology representative today for assistance.

We are committed to helping our customers embrace the latest innovation, enabled by the significant leap forward in silicon innovation combined with Windows 10, and delivered on incredible hardware. Our long-standing support of our partners and the ecosystem has never been stronger, as we all share strong optimism for the road ahead. Always, what guides us is a customer-first approach – in this case, providing clear guidance to our customers on what they can expect and strong alignment with our OEM partners on our joint commitment to all of our Windows customers.

IMO, basically security updates. Windows 7 last security updates supports end on January 14, 2020 and Windows 8.1 ends on January 10, 2023.  Any new security flaws found, after those time periods, then it will only be patched on Windows 10. Now the confusing part is with Skylake users, support ends for them on July 14, 2017, but official support ends on January 14, 2020 for windows 7 and Jaunary 10, 2023 for Windows 8. If they want to continue to receive security updates, they will have to upgrade to Windows 10. Not sure how Microsoft is going to do this. Maybe their newer security patches will check for the unique cpu id first, before it gets download/installed or something.  For the upcoming cpus, they're basically setting the minimum supported OS is Windows 10.

[That Norwegian Guy]

Look how badly they want your completely transparent life log into NSA's jotters.

[zMeul]

Now the confusing part is with Skylake users, support ends for them on July 14, 2017, but official support ends on January 14, 2020 for windows 7 and January 10, 2023 for Windows 8. If they want to continue to receive security updates, they will have to upgrade to Windows 10. Not sure how Microsoft is going to do this. Maybe their newer security patches will check for the unique cpu id first, before it gets download/installed or something.  For the upcoming cpus, they're basically setting the minimum supported OS is Windows 10.

that's very simple, they won't issue micro-code updates for the Windows 7 / 8 Kernel at all from that date onward

[Electronics Wizardy]

well we dont know what the world of CPUs will be in 2-3 years. What if we have stacked processors and shit that didnt even have a place in the corner of our mind back when Windows 7 was invented. I'm assuming this is Microsoft's way of saying: Might work, if it doesnt, we warned you.

Windows xp dropped support and while ago and if work fine on haswell and probally skylake so i have no idea.

[NumLock21]

Windows xp dropped support and while ago and if work fine on haswell and probally skylake so i have no idea.

Even though you can install XP on a haswell system, there are no driver support for it. Ivy Bridge is the last platform to have XP driver support.

[zMeul]

also, this:

on Skylake and Intel N3xxx SoC, without a SATA optical drive and PS/2 k&m you will not be able to install W7 unless you inject the xHCI driver in the W7 iso

@patrickjp93 reported on Skylake's lack of ECHI host adapter back in Jan 2015: http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/289526-skylake-to-drop-usb-20-completely-but-say-goodbye-to-windows-7-installation-via-usb/

[patrickjp93]

new CPUs often need microcode updates to function properly or to bypass erratas

there are two ways to deploy micro-code, via a BIOS/UEFI update or via a OS update - depends what exactly needs to be "fixed"

MS has it in their power to not issue these micro code updates to old OSes, like W7/8.1

---

Bristol Ridge will be AMD's lineup of Zen APUs; the Zen CPUs will be Summit Ridge, to be released earlier

Bristol is Carrizo for desktop. Summit is Zen CPUs. Raven is Zen APUs.

[zMeul]

Bristol is Carrizo for desktop. Summit is Zen CPUs. Raven is Zen APUs.

they changed that!? I looked at some older slides from them  :mellow:

[Crosseyed Sniper]

Just so I am clear on this. Will Haswell CPUs continue to be supported, and if so, for how long?

[Nowak]

I doubt that will happen, but Microsoft certainly has the power to do it. There are actually several ways they could block out all OSes that are not Windows 10. Legacy support is one way, but simply enforcing secure boot would be another. They have already remove the requirement that all UEFIs needed to have a switch for turning it on/off. So now you could end up buying a motherboard that will only support OSes that are signed by Microsoft.

 

We are quickly heading towards a future where consumers has less and less choice, and both software and hardware companies seems very happy with that trend.

I believe they said they won't stop motherboard manufacturers from developing drivers for Windows 7 and 8.1, but there won't be any official support from Microsoft.

[zMeul]

I believe they said they won't stop motherboard manufacturers from developing drivers for Windows 7 and 8.1, but there won't be any official support from Microsoft.

board manufacturers don't develop drivers, chipset manufacturers do - in this case, AMD and Intel

with Skylake, Intel is already shafting W7

[Nowak]

board manufacturers don't develop drivers, chipset manufacturers do - in this case, AMD and Intel

with Skylake, Intel is already shafting W7

afaik Windows 7 doesn't even support all of Haswell's features.