Turkey shot down a Russian fighter jet

[DevilishBooster]

Ooooooooh boy.... This could make things interesting. Apparently Turkey is claiming that the fighter encroached on their airspace, which Russia denies. Luckily the aircrew ejected safely. Hopefully this can be resolved calmly without yet another conflict erupting in the region.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2015/11/24/reports-turkey-shoots-russian-jet/76299190/

Turkey shot down a Russian warplane Tuesday, drawing an angry response from Moscow and prompting an emergency NATO meeting.

The Turkish military said it issued 10 warnings in five minutes before the Su-24 attack aircraft was shot down by two F-16 jets. Russia's defense ministry denied the plane ever strayed from Syria.

 

[vanished]

Well, shouldn't this be rather easy to solve?  Where did it crash, Turkey or Syria?  If it was shot down in Turkey, it's pretty hard for them to deny that it is there lol

 

Update: I now realize this happened right along the border, so of course things could have happened on one side and then fallen on the other, making it more complicated... don't tell me again

Edited November 24, 2015 by Ryan_Vickers

[Fulgrim]

Apparently they shot down the pilots whilst they were parachuting as well. Which is a war crime if i remember correctly. And even a search & rescue heli which was sent to search for the plane's wreckage got shot down by the Turks as well.

 

GG Turkey, you angered the bear and your arse is about to get mauled.

[Real_PhillBert]

Well, shouldn't this be rather easy to solve?  Where did it crash, Turkey or Syria?  If it was shot down in Turkey, it's pretty hard for them to deny that it isn't there lol

 

Pilots landed about 4km into syria, at 200 knots it doesnt take long to dart back across the boarder.

 

I have also read that the helicopter that the Russians sent to recover the pilots was also destroyed, but by Syrian rebels. 

[JoaoPRSousa]

inb4 WW3

 

(you heard it here first boys)

[Tsuki]

i read the title, and instantly thought, "who gave the turkey a gun..?" too close to thanksgiving lol

[ZV-]

It hasn't been destoyed (the helicopter), but it has been badly damaged to the point where it had to make an emergency landing. IMO it kind of is Russia's fault for flying in Turkish airspace, they've been warned before and they have been warned ~8 times in a short period of time.

[vanished]

Pilots landed about 4km into syria, at 200 knots it doesnt take long to dart back across the boarder.

 

I have also read that the helicopter that the Russians sent to recover the pilots was also destroyed, but by Syrian rebels. 

arg... why does this always happen on boarders!? >:[

[stconquest]

inb4 WW3

 

(you heard it here first boys)

 

I had that thought when I saw this, this morning.  I fight against all the fear mongering and bullshit stories coming out of the media, but noticing my very real paranoia (internal) reading his story, I think I am starting to break.... halp!

 

Honestly, wars have started for less... we have to just watch and wait. 

[Real_PhillBert]

It hasn't been destoyed (the helicopter), but it has been badly damaged to the point where it had to make an emergency landing. IMO it kind of is Russia's fault for flying in Turkish airspace, they've been warned before and they have been warned ~8 times in a short period of time.

 

It was forced to land by small arms fire, then destroyed with an anti-tank missile. Possibly an American made TOW missile.

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/footage-shows-syrian-rebels-fire-6892118

[stconquest]

It was forced to land by small arms fire, then destroyed with an anti-tank missile. Possibly an American made TOW missile.

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/footage-shows-syrian-rebels-fire-6892118

 

If that video is authentic... yes, I have my doubts... what a bunch of stupid kids. 

[DevilishBooster]

Well, shouldn't this be rather easy to solve?  Where did it crash, Turkey or Syria?  If it was shot down in Turkey, it's pretty hard for them to deny that it is there lol

 

 

Pilots landed about 4km into syria, at 200 knots it doesnt take long to dart back across the boarder.

 

I have also read that the helicopter that the Russians sent to recover the pilots was also destroyed, but by Syrian rebels. 

I think the tricky thing in a situation like this is the fact that the jet was probably flying along the boarder, so casting blame will depend entirely on NATO being able to conclusively determine the jet's flight path. :unsure:

[Tech_Dreamer]

That damn turkey..


 
#This is why people don't invite me to their parties..

[Real_PhillBert]

I think the tricky thing in a situation like this is the fact that the jet was probably flying along the boarder, so casting blame will depend entirely on NATO being able to conclusively determine the jet's flight path. :unsure:

 

Good luck with that.

[dizmo]

One of my friends linked me to this earlier today. Interesting indeed. Makes me think Turkey was a little quick to pull the trigger. Sure, you can warn them a few times, but if they're skirting around the perimeter I don't see it as a huge issue.

 

It'll be interesting to see how Russia handles this. They're easily provoked, and right now quite on edge. I'd say we're closer than ever to someone unleashing a nuclear weapon.

 

IIRC Russia has declared that Turkey is an assistant to terrorists. Potential act of war.

 

I might be the only one that thinks this, but the whole cooperation between Russia and the US seems...odd. Almost as if both countries want an outright conflict to help their economies.

 

Well, shouldn't this be rather easy to solve?  Where did it crash, Turkey or Syria?  If it was shot down in Turkey, it's pretty hard for them to deny that it is there lol

You're pretty high up in a jet. Wreckage can easily fall on either side of the border after exploding.

It's not like they were caught deep inside Turkey.

 

I think the tricky thing in a situation like this is the fact that the jet was probably flying along the boarder, so casting blame will depend entirely on NATO being able to conclusively determine the jet's flight path. :unsure:

Russia has long disobeyed countries boundaries as well as failed to file proper flight information about military flights. It wouldn't surprise me if the pilots were in the wrong.

 

I had that thought when I saw this, this morning.  I fight against all the fear mongering and bullshit stories coming out of the media, but noticing my very real paranoia (internal) reading his story, I think I am starting to break.... halp!

 

Honestly, wars have started for less... we have to just watch and wait. 

As did I, however I don't think it'll ever escalate to that. Could several NATO countries go to war, sure. But the rebels and IS don't pose a huge threat to the rest of the world.
There isn't enough there for all nations to get up and move in. You won't see China mobilizing any time soon.

 

It was forced to land by small arms fire, then destroyed with an anti-tank missile. Possibly an American made TOW missile.

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/footage-shows-syrian-rebels-fire-6892118

Hah, I didn't know there was a video. Interesting.

This is something everyone that says that Syria is just a bunch of desert dwellers should watch. The rebels and IS are far from that, they're well coordinated, well equipped and quite dangerous.

[AlwaysFSX]

Well, shouldn't this be rather easy to solve?  Where did it crash, Turkey or Syria?  If it was shot down in Turkey, it's pretty hard for them to deny that it is there lol

That's not that easy. Things in the sky can travel pretty far just by inertia alone.

[stconquest]

- -

As did I, however I don't think it'll ever escalate to that. Could several NATO countries go to war, sure. But the rebels and IS don't pose a huge threat to the rest of the world.

There isn't enough there for all nations to get up and move in. You won't see China mobilizing any time soon.

 

- -

 

It's not ISIS that is the problem, it's Turkey shooting down the plane.  

 

Imagine your neighbor is running from two rabid dogs and jumps on the hood of your truck.  You see this and tell him to get off.  You ask again but staring at those muts foaming at the moth he decides to not listen.  You then shoot him.

[Real_PhillBert]

It's not ISIS that is the problem, it's Turkey shooting down the plane.  

 

Imagine your neighbor is running from two rabid dogs and jumps on the hood of your truck.  You see this and tell him to get off.  You ask again but staring at those muts foaming at the moth he decides to not listen.  You then shoot him.

 

I think you're over simplifying a bit. The Russian government is pro-assad and Turkey is supporting the rebels. So you have a government who is bombing your allies and using your airspace as a safe zone. 

[dizmo]

It's not ISIS that is the problem, it's Turkey shooting down the plane.  

 

Imagine your neighbor is running from two rabid dogs and jumps on the hood of your truck.  You see this and tell him to get off.  You ask again but staring at those muts foaming at the moth he decides to not listen.  You then shoot him.

Ah, yes. Good point.

 

However your analogy is horribly flawed. I don't imagine the Russian jet was running from anything.

[ZV-]

I think you're over simplifying a bit. The Russian government is pro-assad and Turkey is supporting the rebels. So you have a government who is bombing your allies and using your airspace as a safe zone. 

To make it even complicated, Turkey is anti-ISIS, dislike Assad (but they approve of him staying as leader for a while) but Turkey also dislikes Kurds while lots of Kurds are also anti-ISIS rebels.

(Correct me if I'm wrong though!)

[stconquest]

I think you're over simplifying a bit. The Russian government is pro-assad and Turkey is supporting the rebels. So you have a government who is bombing your allies and using your airspace as a safe zone. 

 

Shooting your main enemy (Turkey vs Russia) defeats the purpose of a proxy war.  You have to prove there was a clear violation of international law, or an eminent threat to the safety of Turkish citizens or infrastructure.

 

I simplify it, yes.  How do you complicate it without losing the essence of the situation?  No danger to Turkey (immediate), yet many dead Russians.  IDK what happened, all speculation on my part =).

[stconquest]

Ah, yes. Good point.

 

However your analogy is horribly flawed. I don't imagine the Russian jet was running from anything.

 

Very true, 100% speculative on my part.

[TheMcSame]

 Hopefully this can be resolved calmly without yet another conflict erupting in the region.

I'd be rather surprised if that were to case. Public or not, I certainly think Turkey is going to have a few problems with Russia from now.

 

 

Also, Putin spoke out about the incident (as well as some other brief bits of info)

 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34913173

Again, just short C&P stuff.

He described it as a "stab in the back" committed by "accomplices of terrorists".

 

Mr Putin warned there would be "serious consequences" for Moscow's relations with Turkey.

 

Nato is holding an extraordinary meeting to discuss the incident at Turkey's request.

 

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov has said he was cancelling his visit to Turkey, where he was due on Wednesday, over the incident.

 

He (Lavrov I believe) also advised Russians not to visit Turkey and said the threat of terrorism there was no less than in Egypt

 

It (the Russian jet) flew over a small piece of Turkey that projects into Syria that would have taken the jet only a few moments to fly over, correspondents say.

 

 

I also found this from that same BBC article linked above...

 

I get that borders should be respected, but really? Considering the flight path, shooting the jet was a VERY extreme reaction. 

While I wouldn't endorse Russia taking military action against Turkey, I certainly wouldn't object to it.

[vanished]

 

 

I think this kind of thing has happened before, where it clearly violates the air space, but by the time it gets hit it is already out of the country.  Makes things very difficult to say who was wrong... they shouldn't have entered like that, but you can't shoot down someone else's jet in someone else's country.

[The Knome]

No excuse to shoot the plane down. Non at all, and being a member of NATO this wont go down well I would imagine.
No chance of the Russians attacking back because of said membership, but this might be a major violation and void it. AKA "you're on your own kid".

Outside that, comments of who backs who, I'm keeping out of it, because foreign backing of terrorists (or freedom fighters depending on which side you are on) is disgustingly common and secretive if it weren't for Assange and ilk hacking and leaking the info. So all anyone can do is either recite propaganda in the news, or make assumptions. Neither helpful.
Like I read in a paper today that ISIS sells oil from its holdings to Turkey.
Is it true? don't know, not taking their word for it. 

And looking at the map from the BBC there, if that's true dear god nobody in any country would have any of their military aircraft left if that was the common response.