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Turkey shot down a Russian fighter jet

DevilishBooster
By DevilishBooster
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Perhaps they didn't get the memo the cold war ended 25 years ago

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I think this kind of thing has happened before, where it clearly violates the air space, but by the time it gets hit it is already out of the country.  Makes things very difficult to say who was wrong...

Ehh... Technically speaking, Russia would probably be in the wrong. But shit like this can happen, it's not as if the borders are clearly marked between the two countries outside of a map, especially at 20000ft.

 

While the pilot shouldn't have entered the airspace, shooting a military jet down for crossing your airspace for less than half a minute (maybe even less than 15 seconds)? That's far too extreme. 

 

What makes me think, is the fact that it was shot down by an air to air missile. Do Turkey usually deploy fighters when people fly over syria near the border? (legitimate question there). I'm on the fence when it comes to considering this as an act of defense... I'd go as far as saying this may well have been an act of war.

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My god how dumb from Turkey

Why are there two flight paths?

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My god how dumb from Turkey

Why are there two flight paths?

schrodinger's jet

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Turkeys Leader is a fucking Morron.  :angry:

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To quote Dan Aykroyd: "Aww, shit."

That's all I have to say.

 

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Shooting your main enemy (Turkey vs Russia) defeats the purpose of a proxy war.  You have to prove there was a clear violation of international law, or an eminent threat to the safety of Turkish citizens or infrastructure.

 

I simplify it, yes.  How do you complicate it without losing the essence of the situation?  No danger to Turkey (immediate), yet many dead Russians.  IDK what happened, all speculation on my part =).

 

This is all based on the assumption that Turkey wants to stay in the state of proxy war. 

 

Buy you are correct, right now there is a lot of speculation and few facts. The next few days might be very interesting. 

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To make it even complicated, Turkey is anti-ISIS, dislike Assad (but they approve of him staying as leader for a while) but Turkey also dislikes Kurds while lots of Kurds are also anti-ISIS rebels.

(Correct me if I'm wrong though!)

 

From what I understand you are right on the money. There are many more than two sides to this. 

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To quote Dan Aykroyd: "Aww, shit."

That's all I have to say.

 

BTW, Linus is reading this. Hi Linus.

OMG @LinusTech read my thread!! **fan-girl scream**

:P  :D

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From what I understand you are right on the money. There are many more than two sides to this. 

Indeed, I reckon this is more of a dodecahedral story than a two-sided story.

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is that the territory Turkey annexed from Syra a while back? maybe Russia thinks Syria should have it back and will keep poking and proding until something really signifigant happens........... woohoo, more money for the defense industry. will certainly keep us focused there instead of here>>>!!!!/............. AHEM!

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Unacceptable. You have released the beast Turkey.

 

 

Russia is not that dumb.  Turkey is like the little dickhead taking pot shots at a formidable opponent, while his big buddy (USA) stands behind him.

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Russia is not that dumb.  Turkey is like the little dickhead taking pot shots at a formidable opponent, while his big buddy (USA) stands behind him.

 

I'm not so sure about that. The american people are much more concerned with ISIS than with Assad, so that would put the majority of the American people off of supporting a country shooting down the assets of other countries who are trying to destroy ISIS. 

 

The fact that Turkey is a NATO nation does not mean that the US supports every decision that it makes. Obama has said that Turkey has a right to defend it's airspace but held short of supporting or condemning the actions this morning. 

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is that the territory Turkey annexed from Syra a while back?

Yeah, it is the Hatay Province. If the flight path on that map is correct, it means that the Russian jet crossed the Southern-most point of the Southern-most protrusion of the Southern-most area of Turkey (an area that should technically belong to Syria).

 

The biggest red flag that sticks out to me about Turkey's claims is that the said they warned the unidentified jet to leave their airspace 10 times of the period of 5 minutes. I may not be the next Rain Man, but I think I know math well enough to determine that it doesn't take a fighter jet 5 minutes to fly approximately 3.3km..... My bullshit detector is going off.....

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Yeah, it is the Hatay Province. If the flight path on that map is correct, it means that the Russian jet crossed the Southern-most point of the Southern-most protrusion of the Southern-most area of Turkey (an area that should technically belong to Syria).

 

The biggest red flag that sticks out to me about Turkey's claims is that the said they warned the unidentified jet to leave their airspace 10 times of the period of 5 minutes. I may not be the next Rain Man, but I think I know math well enough to determine that it doesn't take a fighter jet 5 minutes to fly approximately 3.3km..... My bullshit detector is going off.....

I assume they would have started the warnings before it entered their airspace, not just during... right?

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I'm not so sure about that. The american people are much more concerned with ISIS than with Assad, so that would put the majority of the American people off of supporting a country shooting down the assets of other countries who are trying to destroy ISIS. 

 

The fact that Turkey is a NATO nation does not mean that the US supports every decision that it makes. Obama has said that Turkey has a right to defend it's airspace but held short of supporting or condemning the actions this morning. 

 

lol, I never said anything about the big buddy actually backing him up  =D... I joke...

 

You are 100% right.  I played that out in my head.  There is a very good chance that if Russia retaliated, the USA would do no more than try to use diplomacy to stop them.

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lol, I never said anything about the big buddy actually backing him up  =D... I joke...

 

You are 100% right.  I played that out in my head.  There is a very good chance that if Russia retaliated, the USA would do no more than try to use diplomacy to stop them.

 

I do not intend to put words in your mouth, I apologize. 

 

I'm simply trying to discuss some of the events from today and possible actions in the next few days. 

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I assume they would have started the warnings before it entered their airspace, not just during... right?

Not necessarily, but even if they started warning the pilots before they entered the air space it still doesn't add up. The SU-24 probably cruises in the area of 350mph when it's out for a leisurely stroll so, even if the Turkish military warned them before they enter the air space, with the path they flew even on approach they would have crossed the whole area in less than 2 minutes easy. It just doesn't add up. Like I said earlier, I think we really need a lot more details.

 

PS/Disclaimer - I'm not a flight expert, but I was in the USAF and one of my best friends flies an F-16 in the USAF so we've talked about stuff like this.

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Not necessarily, but even if they started warning the pilots before they entered the air space it still doesn't add up. The SU-24 probably cruises in the area of 350mph when it's out for a leisurely stroll so, even if the Turkish military warned them before they enter the air space, with the path they flew even on approach they would have crossed the whole area in less than 2 minutes easy. It just doesn't add up. Like I said earlier, I think we really need a lot more details.

Very true.  Is it possible that even once the jet had left, Turkey continued to radio them, with like "you flew through here, now you have to ___" and they never did, and that's what made them shoot it down?

 

PS/Disclaimer - I'm not a flight expert, but I was in the USAF and one of my best friends flies an F-16 in the USAF so we've talked about stuff like this.

Don't worry, this all makes perfect sense :)

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I do not intend to put words in your mouth, I apologize. 

 

I'm simply trying to discuss some of the events from today and possible actions in the next few days. 

 

I was kidding, what you said was bang on.

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Very true.  Is it possible that even once the jet had left, Turkey continued to radio them, with like "you flew through here, now you have to ___" and they never did, and that's what made them shoot it down?

 

Don't worry, this all makes perfect sense :)

Very highly unlikely. I'm 99% sure you can only make action demands of aircraft that are actively in your airspace.

Think of it like this. If you're trespassing on controlled government property and security catches you, they can tell you to "come here" or "get out" or whatever they need to do their job properly. If you're walking on the public sidewalk on the other side of the street they can't tell you to do crap because you're not on their turf.

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Very highly unlikely. I'm 99% sure you can only make action demands of aircraft that are actively in your airspace.

Think of it like this. If you're trespassing on controlled government property and security catches you, they can tell you to "come here" or "get out" or whatever they need to do their job properly. If you're walking on the public sidewalk on the other side of the street they can't tell you to do crap because you're not on their turf.

But if you break into someone's house, run around, and then leave, it's not like now you're home free just because you are no longer in a restricted area

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But if you break into someone's house, run around, and then leave, it's not like now you're home free just because you are no longer in a restricted area

That's a totally different situation because that is private property and not government property (which is technically a type of "public property", without getting into too many semantics).

I really don't want to speculate too much more until more details are released. Like I said, I'm not an expert but Turkey's story just stinks to me.

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But if you break into someone's house, run around, and then leave, it's not like now you're home free just because you are no longer in a restricted area

I don't think they are allowed to take down an aircraft that's already outside their territory.

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