low end graphics card demand in decline

[Notional]

Because Chapter 11 is out of reach under the structure of their main debts. If AMd doesn't have 600 million USD in liquid cash in Escrow on Jan 1st 2019, it will cause immediate controlled bankruptcy and likely a dissolution of the company. AMD would likely be split into two pieces, ATI being sold off to the highest bidder (Intel or Apple being the most likely of the North American companies). At that point the AMD investors will be looking for a merger/buyout to recover their money and get off of the AMD crazy train (Nvidia).

 

I'm not underestimating anything. I already took all of that into consideration.

 

Maybe you aren't, but a lot of people are. However 4 years is an eternity in PC land. By then we will have had 3 new consoles, Zen, 14nm finfet, probably 10 nm finfet too, and maybe even 7 nm. HBM should be version 3, if things continue. We all know next year will be very interesting, so let's see where that brings us, before concluding on 2019. Who are the creditors, AMD owns money to though? Because a bankruptcy will bring IP ownership to those creditors. If they are already investors, the IP rights could go back to the same owners of AMD now.

[arronleeds]

Oh come on, that's used...

and what....

[TheConverter]

PC Gamers logic:

 

"Omg dude u got a 980Ti I can't afford that I only have a R7 260X but I own a 25K $ car" or something like that 

 

But to stay on topic, shouldn't the low-end graphics cards rise in demand because alot of Asian Moba/MMO players?

[SteveGrabowski0]

The demand increased because the GTX 970 gave R9 290x level performance at $330, and everyone bought them. It was a pretty huge step up from the 770 for $70 less at launch. I thought they were just trying to really put a hurting on AMD with the $330 launch, but in retrospect it looks like a brilliant longterm move for Nvidia to make $330 the new normal instead of $250. Who is going back to the 60 series for their next GPU after the performance they're getting out of the 970 right now?

[Notional]

PC Gamers logic:

 

"Omg dude u got a 980Ti I can't afford that I only have a R7 260X but I own a 25K $ car" or something like that 

 

But to stay on topic, shouldn't the low-end graphics cards rise in demand because alot of Asian Moba/MMO players?

 

Not when a standard AMD APU can handle that already.

[TheConverter]

Not when a standard AMD APU can handle that already.

What if they want to drive a 144hz monitor 

[Notional]

What if they want to drive a 144hz monitor 

 

That should not be a problem tbh. But then again, if they can afford such a monitor, they can afford more than a low end GFX.

[TheConverter]

That should not be a problem tbh. But then again, if they can afford such a monitor, they can afford more than a low end GFX.

 

Well you can get 144hz monitors for like 150-200$ second hand

[Notional]

Well you can get 144hz monitors for like 150-200$ second hand

 

And what graphics cards can you get second hand for that price? ​

[TheConverter]

And what graphics cards can you get second hand for that price? ​

 

Dunno 280X maybe 290 if you really lucky 

[Megahurt]

Low end gpus are still a viable option as an upgrade for an older rig, but for new builds, the igpu is often not that far off in performance.

[pit5000]

good, maybe more resources will be focused on higher end products to drive ever greater frame rates

[MoonSpot]

This is good news.  Just means that both AMD and Nvidia need to bring much greater value/performance to all levels.  It's all fine and dandy if people want to talk about higher margin business of the top tier, but good luck keeping those margins when your not getting the same volume based concessions anymore from your suppliers/manufacturers; and good luck getting devs to give a fig about anything other than the lions share of their consumers.

I think it would be a mistake for nvidia to not compete more aggressively on their lower end cards in the long run.

[Mao_Zedong]

I don't think you understand how nVidia works 

or any other company on that matter

[Kamina]

Mid range cards are just so cheap now.

[patrickjp93]

Maybe you aren't, but a lot of people are. However 4 years is an eternity in PC land. By then we will have had 3 new consoles, Zen, 14nm finfet, probably 10 nm finfet too, and maybe even 7 nm. HBM should be version 3, if things continue. We all know next year will be very interesting, so let's see where that brings us, before concluding on 2019. Who are the creditors, AMD owns money to though? Because a bankruptcy will bring IP ownership to those creditors. If they are already investors, the IP rights could go back to the same owners of AMD now.

Considering Sony is already in talks with Nvidia for the PS5 based on the Pascal GPU, don't hold your breath.

I believe the first creditor in 2019 owed is JP Morgan for the ATI loan. No one owns AMD. It's a publicly traded company.

[Jasmin]

Was it ever?

The original GeForce 2 MX - extremely cheap all things considered, I wouldn't see the point of getting the ultra version back then

[Notional]

Considering Sony is already in talks with Nvidia for the PS5 based on the Pascal GPU, don't hold your breath.

I believe the first creditor in 2019 owed is JP Morgan for the ATI loan. No one owns AMD. It's a publicly traded company.

 

Nonsense. Playstation 5 will not come out next year, but when it will, it will be based on new architecture, which Pascal won't be by then. What would drive the CPU part then? As for speculation, I do however think PS4 and XBONE will have very short lives, as next gen consoles should also be x86 based, and therefore be easier to make backwards compatible.

 

Not entirely sure you understand what a share is. The shareholders owns AMD. That is why companies have boards of directors, as is usually mandated by law, to represent the owners.

[Misanthrope]

The original GeForce 2 MX - extremely cheap all things considered, I wouldn't see the point of getting the ultra version back then

 

That was my first dedicated GPU back in the day, excellent card that I bet it's still alive if I could find it. I only upgraded to the geforce 3 ti 200 to play Morrowind but everything else still ran fine

[patrickjp93]

Nonsense. Playstation 5 will not come out next year, but when it will, it will be based on new architecture, which Pascal won't be by then. What would drive the CPU part then? As for speculation, I do however think PS4 and XBONE will have very short lives, as next gen consoles should also be x86 based, and therefore be easier to make backwards compatible.

Not entirely sure you understand what a share is. The shareholders owns AMD. That is why companies have boards of directors, as is usually mandated by law, to represent the owners.

Nvidia's successor to Denver most likely since it beats the snot out of Puma+ and the A8 processor and runs at lower power at the same time. The shareholders only hold a financial stake. They hold no ownership over any IP whatsoever. Upon dissolution everything would be up for bidding at the FTC like every other company that collapses.

[Spoonfull]

Just design more powerful low-end graphics cards...

[Imabigmac]

You could see it with the release of the 900 series.

[Notional]

Nvidia's successor to Denver most likely since it beats the snot out of Puma+ and the A8 processor and runs at lower power at the same time. The shareholders only hold a financial stake. They hold no ownership over any IP whatsoever. Upon dissolution everything would be up for bidding at the FTC like every other company that collapses.

 

Denver? You mean the smartphone ARM chip that isn't even out yet? We have no idea how useful that thing is, but it is highly unlikely to beat the snot out of anything x86 based. Even so, by then AMD has Zen cores and newer iterations of those, so NVidia hardly has anything competitive on the CPU side.

 

Not exactly an expert on American law, but usually such IP rights are sold off on behalf of the creditors, however if there is only one creditor, they can get the IP rights directly. A shareholder holds a share of the company. A share is ownership, including all passives and actives of the company: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stock

 

Shares represent a fraction of ownership in a business. A business may declare different types (classes) of shares, each having distinctive ownership rules, privileges, or share values.​

 

In case of certain IP, that can result in monopolies, I'm sure the FTC has certain powers though. But that does not change the fact that share holders partly owns the companies they hold stock in, including IP (unless personally owned).

[That Norwegian Guy]

Used GTX 470/ 480/ 570/ 580 are the shit anyway for that tier. Beats the crap out of a 750 Ti or 260x, that's for damn sure. And the cost is so much lower than even those cards.

[mr moose]

I always suspected this would be the case in the end,  I have yet to meet someone who has purchased a GPU below mid level and actually not regretted it.