VideoCardz | Sapphire Radeon 300 series list leaked

[Brainless906]

The Fury seems more like a test of HBM in my opinion. I don't really like the idea of early adoption but it is there. HBM will be far ways off before it becomes affordable like any other new tech. Maybe they just wanna show off the possible performance benefits of it, so we get more interested later.

 

Pascels already confirmed using it. I think we'll see earlier adoption then some think, especially with 4k+ gaming becoming more viable on the monitor end of things.

 

EDIT: that said its definitely a test run. first card of its kind. lets hope it goes well

[Opcode]

Rebrands of rebrands up until the R9 370. Above that is just rebrands of the last generation.

 

Some other tid bits regarding their flagship.

• The water cooled Fiji card is 190mm in length.
• GPU with interposer is 55 x 55 mm.
• Dual Fiji card (known as Fiji VR by speculation) is in the works.
• Fiji will more than likely support HDMI FreeSync.

 

The Fury seems more like a test of HBM in my opinion. I don't really like the idea of early adoption but it is there. HBM will be far ways off before it becomes affordable like any other new tech. Maybe they just wanna show off the possible performance benefits of it, so we get more interested later.

Fury is the debut of HBM on graphics cards. There's not really any early adoption as the move to a higher bandwidth solution was well overdue with GDDR5 hitting its limits. It allows for pretty massive power cuts on graphics cards as well. Fiji will consume 30-55w less power entirely due to HBM.

[Techhog]

I'm holding out hope that the 390x is the fully unlocked hawaii core, but I'm starting to doubt that and thinking it's just a higher binned 290x. It'll be a real shame if that's the case, because I like AMD.

The 290X is a full chip. everyone who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves.

[dragosudeki]

Fury is the debut of HBM on graphics cards. There's not really any early adoption as the move to a higher bandwidth solution was well overdue with GDDR5 hitting its limits. It allows for pretty massive power cuts on graphics cards as well. Fiji will consume 30-55w less power entirely due to HBM.

I'm still quite worried about it though. HBM sounds like it is reducing bandwidth problems, but I'm wondering how it will handle the heat being much closer to the die itself. I'm interested in how the cooling solutions will work with this change. Would be cool to see a small PCB for the graphics card with HBM with an AIO on it, but how would air cooling be effective?

[Bouzoo]

Sapphire Radeon R9 390X TRI-X is full Hawaii? The one we never got since the 290X was supposedly a cut down version?

[Opcode]

I'm still quite worried about it though. HBM sounds like it is reducing bandwidth problems, but I'm wondering how it will handle the heat being much closer to the die itself. I'm interested in how the cooling solutions will work with this change. 

HBM is acceptable to heat with temperatures up to 85C and beyond.

[Thorium19]

Again, I still dont see the issue with this. Its a re badge yes but even if its performs even slightly better it'll be right up there matching the 980 except $110.00 cheaper (assuming the "rumored price" of 389.00 is correct). People seem to be either overestimating the maxwell cards or underestimating the 2xx series.

 

I don't underestimate its performance, I actually think the 290x is an outstanding piece of kit and would have got one myself if I could have afforded it, I just think that it's not the solution to regaining market share. NVidia released an entire lineup of new architecture cards with maxwell, and look how much market share increased when that happened. People want to feel like they're paying for something entirely new and improved, not just old stock, which is the feel a lot of people are likely getting from AMD at the moment. Yes it's stood the test of time, but it's not innovation, which is what people like to see.

[Trik'Stari]

I don't underestimate its performance, I actually think the 290x is an outstanding piece of kit and would have got one myself if I could have afforded it, I just think that it's not the solution to regaining market share. NVidia released an entire lineup of new architecture cards with maxwell, and look how much market share increased when that happened. People want to feel like they're paying for something entirely new and improved, not just old stock, which is the feel a lot of people are likely getting from AMD at the moment. Yes it's stood the test of time, but it's not innovation, which is what people like to see.

^here here

[Imachoirstarter]

I don't underestimate its performance, I actually think the 290x is an outstanding piece of kit and would have got one myself if I could have afforded it, I just think that it's not the solution to regaining market share. NVidia released an entire lineup of new architecture cards with maxwell, and look how much market share increased when that happened. People want to feel like they're paying for something entirely new and improved, not just old stock, which is the feel a lot of people are likely getting from AMD at the moment. Yes it's stood the test of time, but it's not innovation, which is what people like to see.

And in a world where money wasn't an issue, we'd have non-stop innovation. Unfortunately the reality is that AMD simply cannot invest enough to warrant an entire new line of GPU's from the entry level to enthusiast grade. So they target the area in the market where they haven't been a contender for a while with the lure of new technology in HBM, meanwhile maintaining some relevance in the mid-high range with the rebrands.

 

 

With the budget AMD have, it's a sound strategy.

[Brainless906]

I don't underestimate its performance, I actually think the 290x is an outstanding piece of kit and would have got one myself if I could have afforded it, I just think that it's not the solution to regaining market share. NVidia released an entire lineup of new architecture cards with maxwell, and look how much market share increased when that happened. People want to feel like they're paying for something entirely new and improved, not just old stock, which is the feel a lot of people are likely getting from AMD at the moment. Yes it's stood the test of time, but it's not innovation, which is what people like to see.

 

I would argue quite the opposite.

I would argue the fiji cards have more innovation than the entire damn lineup of maxwell cards combined. 

 

What did maxwell do? take an existing setup swap a keplar core for a maxwell core making the gpu more power efficient and perform marginally better? We've been doing that since...literally the begging of GPU/CPUs. Not what i would call the height of innovation.

 

AMD took all the (much much less than nvidia) R&D money they had, left the mid-high end cards where they were as nothing really needed to be changed to compete, and invested heavy into a brand new technology. Drop ddr5, stack your memory, put it right next to the GPU, giving it silly cuts to power consumption and potential performance. ...thats not innovation? I'm sure it'll be innovation when nvidia does it with pascal x.x

 

If anything I personally see Maxwell as a flub. The performance was incredibly underwhelming. The fact that people make fun of the 2xx series cards yet the 2xx cards still perform right along side anything thats not a 980TI or titan is funny as all hell.

 

As for the leftover stock idea, anyone would have to be pretty misinformed to think they are literally just taking 2xx cards off the shelf and somehow slapping 2-4 more gigs of memory on them. As much as these cards are "rebadges" they are the same gpu core but different

 

And in a world where money wasn't an issue, we'd have non-stop innovation. Unfortunately the reality is that AMD simply cannot invest enough to warrant an entire new line of GPU's from the entry level to enthusiast grade. So they target the area in the market where they haven't been a contender for a while with the lure of new technology in HBM, meanwhile maintaining some relevance in the mid-high range with the rebrands.

 

 

With the budget AMD have, it's a sound strategy.

 

^^ basically that...yah...

 gpus.

[spartaman64]

can someone explain to me why is the r9 390x a 290x rebrand with a 500 dollar price 

[MEC-777]

my logic is not flawed - buying a Fury, as rumored, will not be cheap

there are a lot of people tired of waiting for AMD, went and bought the new version of the 290X with 8Gb of VRAM, do you actually think they will dump that for a 4Gb card?!!? for at least double the money!?

 

You've misunderstood what I meant, and there will most certainly be 8GB versions of Fiji available as well. If I had an 8GB 290X, I wouldn't be looking to upgrade right now at all. Not unless I had the money for an 8GB Fury or 980Ti.

 

AMD fanboys really hoped AMD 3xx series would not be rebrands/rebadges/wateva' .. they should start cooking that crow any time now, 8 days more until the big reveal

and whoever thinks that Fury, with HBM, will be cheap ... oh boy, they need a reality check

 

Hoping the 300 series would be all new GPUs is nothing but wishful thinking knowing the state of the market and AMDs current financial situation. lol

 

would they buy what?! a Fury? for at least double the cash and half the VRAM?

owners of HD7xxx series, jumped out of their chairs to buy 2xx series? no they didn't

 

Why would you assume someone would go from a 290X 8GB to a Fury 4GB? That makes no sense and nobody was insinuating that would be the case. Obviously if you have an 8GB 290X and were considering the Fury, you wouldn't go for the 4GB version. Your arguments aren't making any sense.  

 

I beg to differ. Lots of people jumped from the 79XX series to the R9 290/X. I'm one of them and I know of many others.  

 

An entire new memory interface not exciting?

 

This is the most exciting thing to happen to GPUs in a long time in my opinion...

 

It's the AMD / Nvidia double standard we've seen time and time again. AMD does something innovative, very few people care. Nvidia does the same thing (after AMD) and everyone flips out like it's the greatest thing in the universe.

 

I don't underestimate its performance, I actually think the 290x is an outstanding piece of kit and would have got one myself if I could have afforded it, I just think that it's not the solution to regaining market share. NVidia released an entire lineup of new architecture cards with maxwell, and look how much market share increased when that happened. People want to feel like they're paying for something entirely new and improved, not just old stock, which is the feel a lot of people are likely getting from AMD at the moment. Yes it's stood the test of time, but it's not innovation, which is what people like to see.

 

As other have stated, AMD simply does not have the resources to R&D an entire new line up of new GPUs. Their current existing GPUs (everything Hawaii and below) is still very much relevant and competitive (performance wise) whether you believe it or not. AMD is smart to do what they're doing with the limited resources they have.

[TorqueS]

--snip--

As you said, this is what most people don't get, AMD is nowhere near as big as Intel or nVidia and they have to make both CPUs and GPUs.

 

As consumers, yeah you might say that being upset is justifiable(idk if that's a word but you get the point), but we're not plain consumers isn't it, we're "smart" consumers. Last week one of my friends sold his 290(without asking me first) and got a 970. WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU DO THAT? Well he told me that some guys advised him that the 970 will last longer because it's newer. I dunno why i didn't slap him in that moment for believing such bulls**t.

 

We know that the 290 and the 970 are trading blows, both are good cards, nothing to complain about. He had the Sapphire Tri-X cooler(so no issue with temps) and a good 80+Gold 650W Super Flower PSU(again everything all right). 

 

Those guys that advised my friend are part of an army of semi-trolls that most of us(educated minds and with our homework done) wouldn't even bother listening, but they're many of them and you know how they say: "Throw enough s**t at a wall and some of it is going to eventually stick."

=====================================================

Returning to the topic, yeah the idea of rebrands sounds a bit bad for me as well, but I don't think they just changed the 2 to 3 and voila new cards.

Again, they do not have a budget high enough to develop a new line of GPUs, but as you can see, when AMD develops a new flagship GPU, it usually lasts long.

 

You have to understand that their budget must be managed for both the CPU and GPU departments, thus the rebrands.

[Thorium19]

I would argue quite the opposite.

I would argue the fiji cards have more innovation than the entire damn lineup of maxwell cards combined. 

 

What did maxwell do? take an existing setup swap a keplar core for a maxwell core making the gpu more power efficient and perform marginally better? We've been doing that since...literally the begging of GPU/CPUs. Not what i would call the height of innovation.

 

AMD took all the (much much less than nvidia) R&D money they had, left the mid-high end cards where they were as nothing really needed to be changed to compete, and invested heavy into a brand new technology. Drop ddr5, stack your memory, put it right next to the GPU, giving it silly cuts to power consumption and potential performance. ...thats not innovation? I'm sure it'll be innovation when nvidia does it with pascal x.x

 

If anything I personally see Maxwell as a flub. The performance was incredibly underwhelming. The fact that people make fun of the 2xx series cards yet the 2xx cards still perform right along side anything thats not a 980TI or titan is funny as all hell.

 

As for the leftover stock idea, anyone would have to be pretty misinformed to think they are literally just taking 2xx cards off the shelf and somehow slapping 2-4 more gigs of memory on them. As much as these cards are "rebadges" they are the same gpu core but different

 

Oh I think fiji is a brilliant bit of engineering (probably) and I get the whole shortage of money compared to nvidia for R&D. Plus hawaii is another outstanding core, but the issue I have is the midrange. Their cores competing with the 960, 750ti and around the 970, which is the most popular area from what I can tell, are nowhere near as efficient, are lacking some of the new technologies (trueaudio for some cards etc.) And people are also looking ahead to DX12 and want the best features possible for it, which currently only maxwell provides (probably fiji and tonga as well). If AMD can release a card that is efficient, cheap ($100-250) and can beat a 970, I think they'll be untouchable for quite a while, and that'll really bring back their market share even if some of their other cards are potatoes (unlikely). However, as people become more aware of efficiency, post purchase cost saving and temperatures, as well as things like quieter components, it is less likely in my opinion that they will look towards a "loud, hot, inefficient rebrand" when they can save money on their electricity bill, buy a lower wattage psu and have a quiet running system that will cost less.

Personally I'd go out tomorrow and buy a 290(x) over a 970 due to the fact it's cheaper at the moment, has some great features (full 4gb ram anyone  ) and is likely to age better in my opinion. However I'm not everyone, and the market share at the moment quite clearly shows people want innovation across the board instead of just at the top end where not everyone can afford it.

I get AMD are largely focusing on zen at the moment, so most of their money isn't going into full gpu development, but as soon as zen is released or is nearing the end of development, I really want to see AMD set to work on bringing an entire suite of new cards to the market (GCN 2.0?) because I'd love to support the red team, but they're making it hard at the moment.

[Paragon_X]

I can see that both companies have their pros and cons we all know what those are so i will not elaborate, but if the Hawai cores are REVISED with extra features better binned and higher clocks plus enough memory to last for a a while I dont see where the problem is, 389$ USD MSRP is decent price for a 1440p gaming card.

Also if you get a nice Vapor X / Tri X version temps are not even a remote issue, i am sporting an r9 290 Vapor X and i never went above 73C on witcher 3 with @ ultra settings - 1080p. (did i mention its OC'd? 1099/1505mhz) plus a slightly oc'd i5 at 4.0ghz with a 650 psu. 

So if the cards are fullfilling those requirements I stated before my rant I believe they are worth it, especially with that price tag. But as always we must wait for the 16th of June - if I am not mistaken.

Screenshot from witcher 3

[Megahurt]

390X          -> 290X +4GB of ram

390 "Nitro" -> 290 with +4GB ram

380            ->285 with 384 mem bus and +2GB ram

370 "Nitro" -> 270=7870 (This is the original GCN launch in 2012, NO Freesync, no additional features)

360            ->260X=7790

The 380 would still be tonga pro with a 256 bit bus as you can't get 4GB on a 384 bit bus, so only a 285 with + 2GB of ram.

 

Missing from the rumors is the 380X based on the tonga XT that would have a full tonga with 384 bit bus with 3 or 6 GB of ram.

[Sharkyx1]

The 380 would still be tonga pro with a 256 bit bus as you can't get 4GB on a 384 bit bus, so only a 285 with + 2GB of ram.

Missing from the rumors is the 380X based on the tonga XT that would have a full tonga with 384 bit bus with 3 or 6 GB of ram.

I dunno, do you think full tonga is 1792 or 2048 core, I am under the impression it's 2048

But I still think 1536 Tonga should replace Pitcairn, it's really unwise to have a product missing so many features still on the market

[MEC-777]

I would like to posit this question: How may PC gamers/enthusiasts REALLY ACTUALLY care about power efficiency? How many actually care enough that they would gladly spend more money on a card that performs the same or slower than the competing card, purely because of the power efficiency? I would wager not too many. Yes, Hawaii's run warm, but so do the big Maxwell cards (even to the point of thermal throttling as observed on the Titan X with the stock cooler). Notice almost nobody talks about that do they? 

 

'Cause we all know; AMD can do no right and Nvidia can do no wrong...   <_<

[MEC-777]

The 380 would still be tonga pro with a 256 bit bus as you can't get 4GB on a 384 bit bus, so only a 285 with + 2GB of ram.

 

Missing from the rumors is the 380X based on the tonga XT that would have a full tonga with 384 bit bus with 3 or 6 GB of ram.

 

 

I dunno, do you think full tonga is 1792 or 2048 core, I am under the impression it's 2048

But I still think 1536 Tonga should replace Pitcairn, it's really unwise to have a product missing so many features still on the market

 

Pretty sure Tonga XT (full Tonga) will be or have a 4GB variant/option and retain a 256bit bus. I could be wrong though. 

 

Typically, when cards are produced with Vram options, it's usually doubled. Example: 290X 4GB or 8GB, GTX 960 2GB or 4GB etc. So it would make sense Tonga would be available in 2GB or 4GB flavors. 

[Sharkyx1]

Pretty sure Tonga XT (full Tonga) will be or have a 4GB variant/option and retain a 256bit bus. I could be wrong though. 

 

Typically, when cards are produced with Vram options, it's usually doubled. Example: 290X 4GB or 8GB, GTX 960 2GB or 4GB etc. So it would make sense Tonga would be available in 2GB or 4GB flavors. 

Well the memory size is tied to the bus width, as bus width is in dividends of 64bits, each channel has memory tied to it, a 256 bit card can have 512 1 2 4 8 gb of ram, a 384 bit card goes 768 1.5 3 6 12 gigs

[MEC-777]

Well the memory size is tied to the bus width, as bus width is in dividends of 64bits, each channel has memory tied to it, a 256 bit card can have 512 1 2 4 8 gb of ram, a 384 bit card goes 768 1.5 3 6 12 gigs

 

The 4GB and 8GB versions of the 290X both have the same 512 bit bus. http://www.sapphiretech.com/presentation/product/product_index.aspx?pid=2394&lid=1 So I don't think it quite works the way you're thinking.

[Nielips]

The 4GB and 8GB versions of the 290X both have the same 512 bit bus. http://www.sapphiretech.com/presentation/product/product_index.aspx?pid=2394&lid=1 So I don't think it quite works the way you're thinking.

You need to reread your comment, and have a long hard think. Also I would suggest learning multiplication.

[Megahurt]

I dunno, do you think full tonga is 1792 or 2048 core, I am under the impression it's 2048

But I still think 1536 Tonga should replace Pitcairn, it's really unwise to have a product missing so many features still on the market

Yeah tonga xt should have more cores than the 285, and a wider bit bus.

 

I don't know if it would be cost effective to cut down tonga even more for the 370, I think this is where they should have gone with a new chip, to at least support freesync, trueaudio, etc. or maybe they were able to update it so it supports those features.

[Real_PhillBert]

I would like to posit this question: How may PC gamers/enthusiasts REALLY ACTUALLY care about power efficiency? How many actually care enough that they would gladly spend more money on a card that performs the same or slower than the competing card, purely because of the power efficiency? I would wager not too many. Yes, Hawaii's run warm, but so do the big Maxwell cards (even to the point of thermal throttling as observed on the Titan X with the stock cooler). Notice almost nobody talks about that do they? 

 

'Cause we all know; AMD can do no right and Nvidia can do no wrong...   <_<

 

I did exactly that. I bought a GTX-980 for $200 more than a R9-290X, and we all know the performance difference is fairly narrow gap.

 

I admit that I am a bit of an efficiency junky, and that it's not wildly common. I even 100% agree with you on the Titan X thermal throttling. That card needs an aftermarket cooler or water cooling to be honest. 

[Sharkyx1]

Yeah tonga xt should have more cores than the 285, and a wider bit bus.

 

I don't know if it would be cost effective to cut down tonga even more for the 370, I think this is where they should have gone with a new chip, to at least support freesync, trueaudio, etc. or maybe they were able to update it so it supports those features.

Let's not forget that they cut down Tahiti to 1536 in the 7870XT, it would be better to have another chip, but without R&Ding a new one, i think it would be better to have a modern lineup through the whole model line consisting of Fiji(4096,3440) Hawaii (2880,2560) Tonga(2048,1792,1536) Bonaire (896,768) this lineup would create a large hole in the linup from the $150 260X to the $250 285 but to be fairTonga should be <$200 in the current market