Apple's ResearchKit did in 24 hours what would normally take 50 medical centers a year

[Aniallation]

Just ignore claims like that. According to some reports iPhone users are poorer, and according to some they are richer.

I don't think anyone has very accurate data on it, and even if they did, who cares? It's not like you will become rich just because you pick one brand over another. People who brag about things like that are just insecure about their preferences.

That's what I was trying to get at. Why should what phone you use be related to how rich or poor you are?

[NeoZeon]

That's what I was trying to get at. Why should what phone you use be related to how rich or poor you are?

 

 

I think in general, people try to live within their means.  

 

The more expensive things you have, the likely hood that you make more money is higher. I don't think that is an outrageous claim to make even though we don't really have data on it.  It makes intuitive sense.

 

I think there is some justification to be skeptical of this data, but I also wouldn't be suprised to see that the average income of people who own iphones vs the average income of people who don't own iphones in the united states is higher.

 

Just like I wouldn't be surprised to see that the average income of people who own a mac vs people who don't own a mac (meaning if you own a mac you can also have a windows computer and be counted on the mac side) be higher for the macintosh owners.

 

I'm not really sure why people are making a big deal about this though.  

[flibberdipper]

This is damned impressive.

[RedRound2]

<Delete this>

[Redmond]

A pleasant surprise. Glad to see the haters being proven wrong again.

[othertomperson]

Indeed, and even if it was true, it would be meaningless, because they're comparing exclusively high end phones sold by one specific manufacturer, to an entire eco-system of Android Phones of all various sizes and price-points.

 

That would be like saying "Statiscally, Owners of Samsung Note phones have higher education and higher income compared to owners of Lumia 520 phones".

 

No shit.

 

People who own high end phones in general will have a higher likelihood of being more wealthy and better educated.

 

What are you even going on about? The statement is an acknowledgement that restricting your data to (modern) iPhone users only results in a massive bias with respect to socio-economic factors so will give a skewed result.

 

The fact that you think acknowledging bias in your research techniques is meaningless is so wrong. It's an absolute necessity.

 

Like if they only worked on any and all flagship smartphones, that would be just as much of a bias, but they are limited to specifically modern iPhones (I'm guessing this doesn't work on an iPhone 4, which iOS 8 didn't come to). So your whining about not including a tonne of irrelevant phones in this is nonsensical.

 

But no, this is LTT so fuck statistics let's just turn everything into an Apple shit-throwing match.

[dalekphalm]

What are you even going on about? The statement is an acknowledgement that restricting your data to (modern) iPhone users only results in a massive bias with respect to socio-economic factors so will give a skewed result.

 

The fact that you think acknowledging bias in your research techniques is meaningless is so wrong. It's an absolute necessity.

 

Like if they only worked on any and all flagship smartphones, that would be just as much of a bias, but they are limited to specifically modern iPhones (I'm guessing this doesn't work on an iPhone 4, which iOS 8 didn't come to). So your whining about not including a tonne of irrelevant phones in this is nonsensical.

 

But no, this is LTT so fuck statistics let's just turn everything into an Apple shit-throwing match.

I'll take what you just said: What are you even going on about? I simply pointed out that Research that says "iPhone users on average make more money then Android Users" is completely pointless.

 

I'm actually not even doubting the rest of the research. Is it completely representational of the entire socio-economic spectrum? Probably not, but it's still relevant and interesting none the less.

 

However, that one statement is pretty pointless. It's misleading. A high end phone is a high end phone, and that's pretty much that. Any high end phone user will likely have higher income then one who uses a low end phone, simply because they can afford it. But whatever, at this point, I think this portion of the news topic has been discussed pretty thoroughly.

 

Also, again, I'm not (and did not) state that acknowledging research bias was meaningless. That's actually quite good. But their research bias was simply that all users were iPhone users. The fact that they linked to a study that says iPhone users are on average wealthier, however, I don't think contributed anything, since, as @LAwLz pointed out, there are other studies that contradict that.

 

Anyway, I personally hope to see this ported over to Android and Windows Phone (And heck, maybe even Blackberry), because this kind of data would be really useful to the medical research community.

 

I do however, strongly feel that this data doesn't replace a traditional medical study where there is physical examination and actual interviewing. I think this should primarily be used as an augmentation, rather then completely replacing the traditional style of doing a medical research study.

[mr moose]

Don't worry Stanford, LTT have your back,  we've already found every flaw in your research. :rolleyes:

 

Most research shows iphone users have a higher household income, that's not really debatable.  Not much research has gone into why, so running around trying to draw conclusions as to the what the actual adverse bias will be is stupid, hence why Stanford pointed out it was a flaw but did not draw a conclusion as to the specifics. In fact Stanford did not even say that, Bloomberg did in the article 9to5 mac used as their source:

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-03-11/apple-researchkit-sees-thousands-sign-up-amid-bias-criticism

 

Stanford did not say much in that article.  Well done to sensationalist media.  This type of breakthrough is outstanding for medical research, why can't it be reported accurately :angry:
 

 

“Just collecting lots of information about people -- who may or may not have a particular disease, and may or may not represent the typical patient -- could just add noise and distraction,” said Lisa Schwartz, professor at the Dartmouth Institute for Health Policy and Clinical Practice, in an e-mail. “Bias times a million is still bias.”

 

 

Lets not dismiss this, Apple research is still a fantastic tool and I really don't think Stanford are that silly, they will be accounting for this and will be still gaining quite the advantage over current research practices.

[SirPaul]

Makes sense, higher educated people have generally speaking more money for high end phones, and there are simply no low end iPhones while there are hundreds of low end android phones.

Yea, i don't have college degree, i work as programmer in IBM, and i have androd smartphone.

Everyone who i know, who are in college, Basically don't have any money and have androdi smartphone too.

And generaly from who i know, iPhone own only people who are really not into technology or they use it as a fashion accessory

[othertomperson]

I'll take what you just said: What are you even going on about? I simply pointed out that Research that says "iPhone users on average make more money then Android Users" is completely pointless.

 

I'm actually not even doubting the rest of the research. Is it completely representational of the entire socio-economic spectrum? Probably not, but it's still relevant and interesting none the less.

 

However, that one statement is pretty pointless. It's misleading. A high end phone is a high end phone, and that's pretty much that. Any high end phone user will likely have higher income then one who uses a low end phone, simply because they can afford it. But whatever, at this point, I think this portion of the news topic has been discussed pretty thoroughly.

 

Also, again, I'm not (and did not) state that acknowledging research bias was meaningless. That's actually quite good. But their research bias was simply that all users were iPhone users. The fact that they linked to a study that says iPhone users are on average wealthier, however, I don't think contributed anything, since, as @LAwLz pointed out, there are other studies that contradict that.

 

Anyway, I personally hope to see this ported over to Android and Windows Phone (And heck, maybe even Blackberry), because this kind of data would be really useful to the medical research community.

 

I do however, strongly feel that this data doesn't replace a traditional medical study where there is physical examination and actual interviewing. I think this should primarily be used as an augmentation, rather then completely replacing the traditional style of doing a medical research study.

 

 

I don't even know why you're finding it so hard to believe that the average iPhone is more expensive than the average Android device. Fucking hell you can get an Android smartphone for £30. Will it be good? No, but it will sure as hell push the average price down.

 

Also, again, I'm not (and did not) state that acknowledging research bias was meaningless.

 

No no, you literally did. You literally quoted this acknowledgement and said it was "meaningless". You said it again in this post.

 

"iPhone users on average make more money then Android Users" is completely pointless.

 

If you're conducting a study into anything and have previous research that highlights a systemic bias in your target demographics then it sure as hell isn't "pointless" or "meaningless" to point this out.

 

The ironic thing is that you seem to be reading this as "Android is for dumb people" which shows a startling lack of understanding about basic statistics.

[hph6203]

It's as simple as asking whether or not you think the price of a person's phone is strongly correlated with their income. Like most consumer goods, it almost certainly is.

Point two, is the average purchase price of an Android phone lower than the average selling price of an iPhone? Yes, it is... Significantly so.

So, you've concluded that phone price is correlated with income levels, that iPhones are more expensive than Android phones on average, therefore you can reasonably assume that iPhone users income is skewed higher than Android users, although not how significantly.

Education levels are also correlated with income levels, so it's safe to assume that iPhone users are on average more educated than Android users. It also doesn't say how significantly.

"Everyone I know" or "of my nine PHD professors" is a biased sample in itself. Your professors are not randomly selected, and neither are your friends.

Why is it important to say that the proportion of iPhone users is "richer" than Android users, or more educated? It's not, it's a dip shit comment, because the real statement should be that iPhone users as a whole are typically going to have higher incomes and more education than your average US citizen (or citizen of the world).

Why is this important? Because education levels and income levels are correlated with the health of the individual, and ResearchKit is interested in exploring/acquiring health data.

For those curious folks, the average purchase price of an iPhone is 2.5 times an Android phone.

[dalekphalm]

I don't even know why you're finding it so hard to believe that the average iPhone is more expensive than the average Android device. Fucking hell you can get an Android smartphone for £30. Will it be good? No, but it will sure as hell push the average price down.

 

 

 

 

No no, you literally did. You literally quoted this acknowledgement and said it was "meaningless". You said it again in this post.

 

 

 

 

If you're conducting a study into anything and have previous research that highlights a systemic bias in your target demographics then it sure as hell isn't "pointless" or "meaningless" to point this out.

 

The ironic thing is that you seem to be reading this as "Android is for dumb people" which shows a startling lack of understanding about basic statistics.

Let me just start by saying that you basically just helped my argument, most especially with this statement right here:

 

the average iPhone is more expensive than the average Android device

Yep, that's exactly what I was getting at.

 

It's meaningless to say "iPhone users are more likely to be rich then Android Users" because it's a biased way to say "High-End smartphone users are more likely to be rich compared to low-end smartphone users".

 

But thanks for reading into my post a lot. I quite specifically stated that I was talking about the quote from 9to5mac, about the polling company CivicScience Inc. The researchers didn't come to that conclusion, the 9to5mac article did. And, hey, it's a Mac-centric publication, so I'm not surprised they would throw that kind of bias or misrepresentation in there. The researchers didn't have any comment aside from specifically "All our users used iPhones, and therefore this is not necessarily representative of the general public". The researchers, acknowledging the bias of their research, did the right thing.

 

9to5mac on the other hand, sensationalized it with their quote from CivicScience.

 

It's as simple as asking whether or not you think the price of a person's phone is strongly correlated with their income. Like most consumer goods, it almost certainly is.

Point two, is the average purchase price of an Android phone lower than the average selling price of an iPhone? Yes, it is... Significantly so.

So, you've concluded that phone price is correlated with income levels, that iPhones are more expensive than Android phones on average, therefore you can reasonably assume that iPhone users income is skewed higher than Android users, although not how significantly.

Education levels are also correlated with income levels, so it's safe to assume that iPhone users are on average more educated than Android users. It also doesn't say how significantly.

"Everyone I know" or "of my nine PHD professors" is a biased sample in itself. Your professors are not randomly selected, and neither are your friends.

Why is it important to say that the proportion of iPhone users is "richer" than Android users, or more educated? It's not, it's a dip shit comment, because the real statement should be that iPhone users as a whole are typically going to have higher incomes and more education than your average US citizen (or citizen of the world).

Why is this important? Because education levels and income levels are correlated with the health of the individual, and ResearchKit is interested in exploring/acquiring health data.

For those curious folks, the average purchase price of an iPhone is 2.5 times an Android phone.

This is a very well thought out analysis of the article and some good points.

[othertomperson]

Let me just start by saying that you basically just helped my argument, most especially with this statement right here:

Yep, that's exactly what I was getting at.

 

It's meaningless to say "iPhone users are more likely to be rich then Android Users" because it's a biased way to say "High-End smartphone users are more likely to be rich compared to low-end smartphone users".

 

But thanks for reading into my post a lot. I quite specifically stated that I was talking about the quote from 9to5mac, about the polling company CivicScience Inc. The researchers didn't come to that conclusion, the 9to5mac article did. And, hey, it's a Mac-centric publication, so I'm not surprised they would throw that kind of bias or misrepresentation in there. The researchers didn't have any comment aside from specifically "All our users used iPhones, and therefore this is not necessarily representative of the general public". The researchers, acknowledging the bias of their research, did the right thing.

 

9to5mac on the other hand, sensationalized it with their quote from CivicScience.

 

This is a very well thought out analysis of the article and some good points.

 

OK, I'll ask you more bluntly, since you've missed the point three times now:

 

Why the fuck would they write about the price disparity of Android devices and being a source of statistical error on data only recorded on iPhones?

 

Everything you are saying would be relevant if the data was recorded on all flagships. That would cause the iPhone and Android statistics to be more similar. As it stands, the average iPhone price and the average Android price are massively different, so it's not a waste of time to make the statement that it could affect the validity of the data collected.

 

Your point is completely irrelevant. Stanford cited a source that cast doubt on the integrity of their testing methodology so they reported it. That's it. No need to get all butt hurt because you mistakenly think someone's calling you stupid for favouring Android.

 

[ReadyToGame]

Lol, this is so full of crap, I'm sure this could easily be done with any Android phone, and what's to say people aren't still lying using even when using their devices. (I didn't read the full post because I don't have the time, and am not about to care about some useless banter from Apple fanboys.) 

 

the f***

 

Because Android Users and smart and go into the good studies that guarantee jobs that have lower stress levels, rather than being rich and  going and graduating with University degrees that don't assure them a job.

[othertomperson]

Because Android Users and smart

 

thay lern gud

[ReadyToGame]

thay lern gud

that smurt and pay atterntin in clers

[patrickjp93]

the f***

Why so surprising? I'm a master's student myself and have an iPhone 5. I'm a pretentious dick when it comes to the topics I study, but I'm good at what I do and have the drive for it. Most of my family uses a lot of Apple products. I personally would prefer to not own a Macbook Pro Retina, though I need it to build upon the code base of my predecessor (god damn anyone who chooses to develop exclusively for iOS). There are superior laptops out there. I hope to see some Broadwell or Skylake ultrabooks come out with 16/32GB of RAM and a 16x PCIe 3.0 connector so I can attach to an enclosed dGPU but work off of integrated at other times, but that won't happen for a while.

[dalekphalm]

OK, I'll ask you more bluntly, since you've missed the point three times now:

 

Why the fuck would they write about the price disparity of Android devices and being a source of statistical error on data only recorded on iPhones?

 

Everything you are saying would be relevant if the data was recorded on all flagships. That would cause the iPhone and Android statistics to be more similar. As it stands, the average iPhone price and the average Android price are massively different, so it's not a waste of time to make the statement that it could affect the validity of the data collected.

 

Your point is completely irrelevant. Stanford cited a source that cast doubt on the integrity of their testing methodology so they reported it. That's it. No need to get all butt hurt because you mistakenly think someone's calling you stupid for favouring Android.

 

You're missing my point entirely it seems. I've iterated it several times now but I'll say it again. Stanford cited no such source. 9to5mac was the one who brought up the "study" from CivicScience Inc. that stated that on average, iPhone users on average make more money.

 

All Stanford did was state that their study only included respondents who owned an iPhone. I repeat, Stanford did the right thing. It was the 9to5mac article itself that inserted the "meaning" behind it.

 

Furthermore, you're assuming I'm getting butthurt because I favour Android? Spoiler Alert - I don't even own an Android Phone, and never have.

 

At this point, I think we're both getting way too off topic, on an otherwise excellent revolution to medical science studying technique.

[Xsilent(X)]

No software technology can ever replace a medical field of the human hand an brain.

[mr moose]

Let me just start by saying that you basically just helped my argument, most especially with this statement right here:

Yep, that's exactly what I was getting at.

 

It's meaningless to say "iPhone users are more likely to be rich then Android Users" because it's a biased way to say "High-End smartphone users are more likely to be rich compared to low-end smartphone users".

 

But thanks for reading into my post a lot. I quite specifically stated that I was talking about the quote from 9to5mac, about the polling company CivicScience Inc. The researchers didn't come to that conclusion, the 9to5mac article did. And, hey, it's a Mac-centric publication, so I'm not surprised they would throw that kind of bias or misrepresentation in there. The researchers didn't have any comment aside from specifically "All our users used iPhones, and therefore this is not necessarily representative of the general public". The researchers, acknowledging the bias of their research, did the right thing.

 

9to5mac on the other hand, sensationalized it with their quote from CivicScience.

 

This is a very well thought out analysis of the article and some good points.

 

I have read research that puts iphones in the hands of managers, directors, and medical professionals.  These are all people with higher education and higher incomes.  They coincidentally are all people who want to buy a device that just works,  does what it is supposed to do and they don't mind paying more for it.  Android seems to be in the realm of engineers, software developers and hands on people.  I don't think the cost of the item has anything to do with the general user demographic.

[LAwLz]

I have read research that puts iphones in the hands of managers, directors, and medical professionals.  These are all people with higher education and higher incomes.  They coincidentally are all people who want to buy a device that just works,  does what it is supposed to do and they don't mind paying more for it.  Android seems to be in the realm of engineers, software developers and hands on people.  I don't think the cost of the item has anything to do with the general user demographic.

Anecdotal and insufficient data. I think the stereotype that Android users are mostly engineers and software developers is a very outdated one. Was probably true in the beginning, but these days it's more common for your average soccer mom to own an Android device than her owning an iPhone.

 

 

I agree with you that the cost of a single item can't be used as a measurement of how wealthy someone is. I have seen plenty of people who own pretty luxurious cars and watches, but live in really bad 1 room apartments and can barely afford food. They probably do this to appear wealthier than they really are. If someone can save up to get a car, then I am sure a lot of people can save up to get a high end smartphone even though they probably should be spending the money on other things.

[mr moose]

Anecdotal and insufficient data. I think the stereotype that Android users are mostly engineers and software developers is a very outdated one. Was probably true in the beginning, but these days it's more common for your average soccer mom to own an Android device than her owning an iPhone.

 

 

I agree with you that the cost of a single item can't be used as a measurement of how wealthy someone is. I have seen plenty of people who own pretty luxurious cars and watches, but live in really bad 1 room apartments and can barely afford food. They probably do this to appear wealthier than they really are. If someone can save up to get a car, then I am sure a lot of people can save up to get a high end smartphone even though they probably should be spending the money on other things.

 

That wasn't anecdotal, that was from articles I have read:

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/toddhixon/2014/04/10/what-kind-of-person-prefers-an-iphone/

http://www.emarketer.com/Article/US-Smartphone-OS-Race-Still-Close-Men-Younger-Users-Favor-Android/1009961

[Victorious Secret]

That wasn't anecdotal, that was from articles I have read:

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/toddhixon/2014/04/10/what-kind-of-person-prefers-an-iphone/

http://www.emarketer.com/Article/US-Smartphone-OS-Race-Still-Close-Men-Younger-Users-Favor-Android/1009961

 

This is just from my own anecdotal experience:

I work in a clinic of 14 surgeons, all at the top of their fields and all who have more degrees and awards and plaques mounted on their walls (each) than I've had years alive on this planet. They are THAT good. 

 

What do they all use? iPhones and MacBooks. 

 

What does that mean? Fuck all. It could mean they simply like the ecosystem. It could mean they just liked the phone/laptop. It could mean they appreciate the "idiot friendly" design of Apple products and OSs, since they have far better stuff to do in their day than wrestle with computer and phone use. 

 

Who knows? You can't correlate and imply causation with these things. I'm headed towards a MD and I've used every single OS on a near monthly basis. But that has little bearing on my economic status. ITs a damn phone. They all cost the same (especially in North America, where its all contracted). Even their laptops. Apple is expensive, yes. But so expensive that people who buy them usually belong to a different socioeconomic class? Hah. Thats a good. one. 

 

The only people who seem to get so worked up and upset over these nonsense statements are those who feel a need to overcompensate for something anyways. 

 

I was just as successful when I used my Lumia 920 as I am with my 6+. If I am supposed to become more successful since I can afford an iPhone, then shit. I must have missed that bonus. Where do I lodge my complaint? 

[sylarspock]

say what you want about Apple   
but they have the market clout and capability to implement new things and make them a standard
 

just look at the USB Type C
Somehow mainstream media outlets are calling it's "Apple's new usb", "macbook's new usb"
 

Personally corrected some of my friends who thought that Apple created the standard, when it's a universal standard and has been out for a few months.


Anyway , I digress, end of the day Kudos to Apple for this effort.  :lol:

[othertomperson]

You're missing my point entirely it seems. I've iterated it several times now but I'll say it again. Stanford cited no such source. 9to5mac was the one who brought up the "study" from CivicScience Inc. that stated that on average, iPhone users on average make more money.

 

All Stanford did was state that their study only included respondents who owned an iPhone. I repeat, Stanford did the right thing. It was the 9to5mac article itself that inserted the "meaning" behind it.

 

Furthermore, you're assuming I'm getting butthurt because I favour Android? Spoiler Alert - I don't even own an Android Phone, and never have.

 

At this point, I think we're both getting way too off topic, on an otherwise excellent revolution to medical science studying technique.

 

You aren't making a point. You're ranting about nothing. If you think Stanford did the right thing why the hell are you arguing that their reference to this entire issue was "pointless" and "meaningless"?

 

All that has been claimed is that the average price of one thing is higher than the average price of another, therefore it's more likely that an owner of one will have more disposable income than the other, thus it follows that one is likely to be owned by people with a better job and a higher level of education (which, again, are themselves correlated).

 

I am assuming that you are getting butthurt because there is no other reason for this to not make sense to you. In a world where an iPhone 6 costs £539, and an Android phone can cost anything from £30 to £600, the only reason to argue what you are arguing is because you have extrapolated wildly and have assumed that someone is calling Android users stupid, (which is precisely what the "wtf" comment was getting at)

 

Speak for yourself about getting off topic. I, at any rate, am talking about the validity of the data collected in the OP. You might be enjoying a rambling tirade of nonsense...