In Six Months, Microsoft Will Pull The Plug On Some Parts Of Windows 7 Support

[Trik'Stari]

If they make sooooo much money from their business customers, then it should be no problem at all to continue to offer support for more than just security to the older OS's.

 

They're essentially saying fuck you, that fact cannot be escaped.

[Phillyphries]

Trik'Stari, on 08 Jul 2014 - 9:14 PM, said:

That might be true, but they're still essentially giving us desktop gamers the finger and saying "fuck you, upgrade or languish" to which I hope most gamers respond by going with steamos.

 We probably won't see that. I don't think most gamers have a problem with Windows. Because most gamers, aren't enthusiasts. And if Windows lost a few of the enthusiast crowd? What, their share would drop only like what, 1%? Think about this: Apple has less than 5% share of the market.

[mr moose]

That might be true, but they're still essentially giving us desktop gamers the finger and saying "fuck you, upgrade or languish" to which I hope most gamers respond by going with steamos.

 

 

They probably are giving gamers the middle finger, but that doesn't change the facts. If all PC gamers went to steam or Linux, or mac or anything else I don't think MS will blink.

[Phillyphries]

Trik'Stari, on 08 Jul 2014 - 9:16 PM, said:

HAHAHAHA quicktime.....I needed a good laugh, thank you.

 

That's Apple's ridiculous standard. It makes me laugh as well honestly lol

[deathjester]

MS make 90 odd% of their revenue from corporate clients,  they make almost as much from office alone as they do from windows total. Gaming might be a billion dollar industry (for game devs and console sales) but that is merely peanuts to MS, especially in reference to OS revenue.

 

Cool story. Then why do they withhold DirectX, when it is the ONLY thing that gamers care about. We streamline the rest of the OS as much as we can to get the memory footprint down, background services etc. because each OS gets more and more bloated with BS. Win 7 can actually have a lower footprint than 8 after tweaking.

 

 

http://seekingalpha.com/article/2302645-microsoft-windows-8-is-losing-market-share

 

Windows  8 has LOST market share not gained it. STILL MS refuses to give Win 7 DirectX 11.2 (which game developers could use instead which includes memory tiling that their stupid Xbox uses). MS is the worst thing to ever happen to PC gaming. 

[GoodBytes]

Microsoft does the OS, and DirectX, What you are asking for is all software, which Microsoft has no business into.

You can complain all you want about DirectX, but so far there is NOTHING that OpenGL can do that DirectX can't in gaming (ie: no equivalency), and so far DirectX still moves forward at a faster paste than OpenGL. The simple fact that Apple made Metal, and AMD made Mantle, despite both being string supported of OpenGL, shows you how they are getting fed up of how things run on the OpenGL front. Either no one agrees, and things don't get done. Or its slow paste makes some people impatient.

Even if DirectX was free upgrade. The situation wont' be better. Because people won't run every 2 years or less buying new GPUs to support the latest version of DirectX (same for OpenGL). So, you will still not see games supporting the latest DirectX. You need and example? Have a look at OpenGL. Most games aren't made in OpenGL 4.x but rather OpenGL 3.

The web browser is actually pretty good. And if you have a touch screen device, IE11 just massacre the rest, as much I hate saying it. And i don't mean Metro IE, I mean desktop IE. It's the most responsive, starts fastest, scrolls smoother and faster, zooms-in/out like no ones business, and test have showed that it consumes the least power, extending mobile device battery life.

Chrome is OK (I can live, but so far from IE11) with lots of issues, and Firefox... despite my favorite web browser for numerous years, and is so on my desktop and laptop, but when using a touch screen supported device, its crap. Scrolls is choppy, and zoom in-out... well it's an insult.

[mr moose]

If they make sooooo much money from their business customers, then it should be no problem at all to continue to offer support for more than just security to the older OS's.

 

They're essentially saying fuck you, that fact cannot be escaped.

 

Do you understand how business works?  their ending development for an older product for a segment of their market that doesn't provide them with an income stream, they are not making 7 obsolete nor are they stopping security updates.  There will be very little impact on the average enthusiast or gamer.

[Phillyphries]

GoodBytes, on 08 Jul 2014 - 9:21 PM, said:GoodBytes, on 08 Jul 2014 - 9:21 PM, said:GoodBytes, on 08 Jul 2014 - 9:21 PM, said:

Microsoft does the OS, and DirectX, What you are asking for is all software, which Microsoft has no business into.

You can complain all you want about DirectX, but so far there is NOTHING that OpenGL can do that DirectX can't in gaming (ie: no equivalency), and so far DirectX still moves forward at a faster paste than OpenGL. The simple fact that Apple made Metal, and AMD made Mantle, despite both being string supported of OpenGL, shows you how they are getting fed up of how things run on the OpenGL front. Either no one agrees, and things don't get done. Or its slow paste makes some people impatient.

Even if DirectX was free upgrade. The situation wont' be better. Because people won't run every 2 years or less buying new GPUs to support the latest version of DirectX (same for OpenGL). So, you will still not see games supporting the latest DirectX. You need and example? Have a look at OpenGL. Most games aren't made in OpenGL 4.x but rather OpenGL 3.

The web browser is actually pretty good. And if you have a touch screen device, IE11 just massacre the rest, as much I hate saying it. And i don't mean Metro IE, I mean desktop IE. It's the most responsive, starts fastest, scrolls smoother and faster, zooms-in/out like no ones business, and test have showed that it consumes the least power, extending mobile device battery life.

Chrome is OK (I can live, but so far from IE11) with lots of issues, and Firefox... despite my favorite web browser for numerous years, and is so on my desktop and laptop, but when using a touch screen supported device, its crap. Scrolls is choppy, and zoom in-out... well it's an insult.

 

Exactly. Not every gamer is an enthusiast. I haven't personally updated my rig in YEARS, because it still runs games perfectly fine. I don't have to upgrade for a new version of DX, simply because I can't utilize it anyways. And my games still work fine.

 

I upgrade because I choose to. Not for DX, although it's nice when I do feel like shelling more money on upgrades.

 

Windows IE11 is a DREAM compared to every previous IE ever. It's the first one that actually works like a modern browser, and does it better than some of the most popular ones. It's properly done this time around. Not to mention the upgrade Microsoft did to Windows Explorer and Task Manager

[Kamina]

Windows 9 (and I'd hope 10) best not be cloud based.

If it's cloud based then I am going full Linux. That would be the final straw.

[deathjester]

Microsoft does the OS, and DirectX, What you are asking for is all software, which Microsoft has no business into.

You can complain all you want about DirectX, but so far there is NOTHING that OpenGL can do that DirectX can't in gaming (ie: no equivalency), and so far DirectX still moves forward at a faster paste than OpenGL. The simple fact that Apple made Metal, and AMD made Mantle, despite both being string supported of OpenGL, shows you how they are getting fed up of how things run on the OpenGL front. Either no one agrees, and things don't get done. Or its slow paste makes some people impatient.

Even if DirectX was free upgrade. The situation wont' be better. Because people won't run every 2 years or less buying new GPUs to support the latest version of DirectX (same for OpenGL). So, you will still not see games supporting the latest DirectX. You need and example? Have a look at OpenGL. Most games aren't made in OpenGL 4.x but rather OpenGL 3.

The web browser is actually pretty good. And if you have a touch screen device, IE11 just massacre the rest, as much I hate saying it. And i don't mean Metro IE, I mean desktop IE. It's the most responsive, starts fastest, scrolls smoother and faster, zooms-in/out like no ones business, and test have showed that it consumes the least power, extending mobile device battery life.

Chrome is OK (I can live, but so far from IE11) with lots of issues, and Firefox... despite my favorite web browser for numerous years, and is so on my desktop and laptop, but when using a touch screen supported device, its crap. Scrolls is choppy, and zoom in-out... well it's an insult.

 

And there is nothing DirectX 12 can do that OpenGL can't. Sony runs a custom API based on OpenGL. So does nintendo. Apple is going low level with OpenGL. OpenGL can do memory tiling and low level. They did memory tiling FIRST.

 

"Even if DirectX was free upgrade. The situation wont' be better. Because people won't run every 2 years or less buying new GPUs to support the latest version of DirectX (same for OpenGL). So, you will still not see games supporting the latest DirectX. You need and example? Have a look at OpenGL. Most games aren't made in OpenGL 4.x but rather OpenGL 3."

 

More MS FUD. A low level API could work on both with vendor extensions. That is all AMD Mantle does and that is what DX 12 will do with AMD 7000, GTX 400, and up and each card family will have extensions.

 

Memory tiling (DirectX 11.2) is withheld so MS can force bad lazy PC ports. All MS does is bend over PC gamers at every opportunity. Make sure we have bad ports until we adopt their latest OS. ONLY announced DirectX 12 when AMD Mantle came out and OpenGL held a conference months before showing how OpenGL can be low level. 

 

Want to know why DirectX 12 does jack for the Xbox One? Cus a low level OpenGL can do the exact same freakin thing on the PS4. 

[mr moose]

Cool story. Then why do they withhold DirectX, when it is the ONLY thing that gamers care about. We streamline the rest of the OS as much as we can to get the memory footprint down, background services etc. because each OS gets more and more bloated with BS. Win 7 can actually have a lower footprint than 8 after tweaking.

 

 

http://seekingalpha.com/article/2302645-microsoft-windows-8-is-losing-market-share

 

Windows  8 has LOST market share not gained it. STILL MS refuses to give Win 7 DirectX 11.2 (which game developers could use instead which includes memory tiling that their stupid Xbox uses). MS is the worst thing to ever happen to PC gaming. 

 

Again, if you tweak you may get a smaller footprint, but that is something only enthusiast do which is nothing to MS, they don't care about enthusiasts.  That is the point. 

 

Windows 8 market share has actually only increased since it's release.  go to the source:

 

http://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0&qpsp=2012&qpnp=3&qptimeframe=Y

 

You can select which ever year you want, you 'll see that the figures only go up for 8 and 8.1

 

Again, there are no games out at the moment that I can't play with my 3 year old pc. 11.2 or not.

[Phillyphries]

And there is nothing DirectX 12 can do that OpenGL can't. Sony runs a custom API based on OpenGL. So does nintendo. Apple is going low level with OpenGL. OpenGL can do memory tiling and low level. They did memory tiling FIRST.

 

"Even if DirectX was free upgrade. The situation wont' be better. Because people won't run every 2 years or less buying new GPUs to support the latest version of DirectX (same for OpenGL). So, you will still not see games supporting the latest DirectX. You need and example? Have a look at OpenGL. Most games aren't made in OpenGL 4.x but rather OpenGL 3."

 

More MS FUD. A low level API could work on both with vendor extensions. That is all AMD Mantle does and that is what DX 12 will do with AMD 7000, GTX 400, and up and each card family will have extensions.

 

Memory tiling (DirectX 11.2) is withheld so MS can force bad lazy PC ports. All MS does is bend over PC gamers at every opportunity. Make sure we have bad ports until we adopt their latest OS. ONLY announced DirectX 12 when AMD Mantle came out and OpenGL held a conference months before showing how OpenGL can be low level. 

 

So you're complaining about the quality of games, because of Microsoft?

 

Is Microsoft all the sudden in charge of developing every game nowadays?

[Syntaxvgm]

And there is nothing DirectX 12 can do that OpenGL can't. Sony runs a custom API based on OpenGL. So does nintendo. Apple is going low level with OpenGL. OpenGL can do memory tiling and low level. They did memory tiling FIRST.

 

"Even if DirectX was free upgrade. The situation wont' be better. Because people won't run every 2 years or less buying new GPUs to support the latest version of DirectX (same for OpenGL). So, you will still not see games supporting the latest DirectX. You need and example? Have a look at OpenGL. Most games aren't made in OpenGL 4.x but rather OpenGL 3."

 

More MS FUD. A low level API could work on both with vendor extensions. That is all AMD Mantle does and that is what DX 12 will do with AMD 7000, GTX 400, and up and each card family will have extensions.

 

Memory tiling (DirectX 11.2) is withheld so MS can force bad lazy PC ports. All MS does is bend over PC gamers at every opportunity. Make sure we have bad ports until we adopt their latest OS. ONLY announced DirectX 12 when AMD Mantle came out and OpenGL held a conference months before showing how OpenGL can be low level. 

Look, I've done a lot of game dev, and I can tell you OpenGL lately has been up in the air to it's fate. It's almost falling apart. No one uses it vanilla. And it's a headache to work with standards wise.

the other problem is there are just so many games that are exclusively direct x. No one wants an OS that can only play new games, even if everyone does go over to opengl

[ericlee30]

Well i refuse to go to windows 8 unless they get read of the metro interface altogther for desktop users.

[deathjester]

Look, I've done a lot of game dev, and I can tell you OpenGL lately has been up in the air to it's fate. It's almost falling apart. No one uses it vanilla. And it's a headache to work with.

the other problem is there are just so many games that are exclusively direct x. No one wants an OS that can only play new games, even if everyone does go over to opengl

 

Yeah that Sony has really struggled to release their games on their low level OpenGL compared to MS. They have the same budget AMD PC and the games come just as quick. Want to know why DX 12 is NOT helping Xbox One? Because DX 12 sold as a cure all for XB1 is a complete scam.

 

Pretty sure the Kronos group which owns Open GL and includes Nvidia, Intel, AMD can get a low level API to work with OpenGL. Especially considering AMD wants to bring Mantle to Linux, and AMD would do cartwheels if the other vendors jumped on board since not having a low level API screws them over due to poor single core performance.

 

Mobile game devs are really having a tough time making 10000000000000000000000000 games on mobile on OpenGL as well...

[Syntaxvgm]

Yeah that Sony has really struggled to release their games on their low level OpenGL compared to MS. They have the same budget AMD PC and the games come just as quick. Want to know why DX 12 is NOT helping Xbox One? Because DX 12 sold as a cure all for XB1 is a complete scam.

 

Pretty sure the Kronos group which owns Open GL and includes Nvidia, Intel, AMD can get a low level API to work with OpenGL. Especially considering AMD wants to bring Mantle to Linux, and AMD would do cartwheels if the other vendors jumped on board since not having a low level API screws them over due to poor single core performance.

 

Mobile game devs are really having a tough time making 10000000000000000000000000 games on mobile on OpenGL as well...

Kronos group is the problem with opengl imo.

OpenGL is capable, yes, but has plenty of problems trust me. It's usually best to just use an engine that already has all of the OpenGL functions implements. that's what most do. Ie unity, ect.

Idk what to think about DX12. I know the Xbone wont get a performance increase, that's silly. Proper console game dev means optimization for the hardware and squeezing every bit of power out of it you can. But anymore game devs seem lazy on that point so who knows.

[Chillstice]

...

[dlf]

If it's cloud based then I am going full Linux. That would be the final straw.

Probably would as well for me. With a few bootable OS's:

 

Windows xp (or 7?) - one of these for the old games that aren't on 'nix - 99% of what I and most people probably have and for the few MS programs (Office 2013 . . .)

Ubuntu (perhaps) & SteamOS . . . .

[wtfxmitchell]

people, calm the fuck down, it's normal to drop support for old os'es, you don't see google updating android gingerbread anymore even though millions of people still use it, it's a buisness!

[Humbug]

I don't see what the fuss is about. The OS is in working order. And they have promised to provide security patches where necessary upto 2020.

[juretrn]

Why the freak-out guys? Is this somehow "news"? I remember looking up the Wikipedia article on W7 quite a while back and this exact date was written there. Shocker!

Even W8 has had the end of support known.

Now look at this pragmatically: would you want to fully support 3 different OSes if you were MS?

[Humbug]

That might be true, but they're still essentially giving us desktop gamers the finger and saying "fuck you, upgrade or languish" to which I hope most gamers respond by going with steamos.

 

What Valve's efforts are doing is uplifting the other Linux distros such as Mint and Ubunutu which focus on desktop users. Because steam as well as the games ported to Linux work on those distros as well, not just steamOS. Valve is not trying to replace Windows with steamOS. Valve is creating an interace on Debian linux which is suitable for the living room. Suitable for gaming, suitable for media playback in the living room etc and which can be easily navigated with a controller. Yes you can exit that interface and go to the desktop. Once you do that you can customize it and install whatever packages you want to give you the functionality that you want. So then you can use it for productivity or any other work. But that's not what it is out of the box.

 

If Linux is ever going to really compete with Windows in desktop market share (not saying it will) it's upto guys like Canonical (Ubuntu) to make it happen.

Not Valve. Valve will help a little bit by making Linux a viable gaming platform, more games, better drivers etc.

But it remains to be seen how much the other distros can capitalize on that to push their own market share, along with competency and usability in all the other factors that make up a good desktop OS (apart from gaming).

[mr moose]

What Valve's efforts are doing is uplifting the other Linux distros such as Mint and Ubunutu which focus on desktop users. Because steam as well as the games ported to Linux work on those distros as well, not just steamOS. Valve is not trying to replace Windows with steamOS. Valve is creating an interace on Debian linux which is suitable for the living room. Suitable for gaming, suitable for media playback in the living room etc and which can be easily navigated with a controller. Yes you can exit that interface and go to the desktop. Once you do that you can customize it and install whatever packages you want to give you the functionality that you want. So then you can use it for productivity or any other work. But that's not what it is out of the box.

 

If Linux is ever going to really compete with Windows in desktop market share (not saying it will) it's upto guys Canonical (Ubuntu) to make it happen.

Not Valve. Valve will help a little bit by making Linux a viable gaming platform, more games, better drivers etc.

But it remains to be seen how much the other distros can capitalize on that to push their own market share, along with competency and usability in all the other factors that make up a good desktop OS (apart from gaming).

 

And of course the other side to that is software availability, like adobe, office (one of the biggest productivity packages on the market) and specialty software that all has to work on Linux and the particular distro (be it canonical or other) will have to provide the same professional support and guarantees that MS does to make it attractive to corporate users.  With MS being dominant in all three areas of corporate IT (server software, office software and workstation OS) it is hard market for Linux to crack especially with MS now being aggressive with adding tablets and phones to their ecosystem. 

[Humbug]

And of course the other side to that is software availability, like adobe, office (one of the biggest productivity packages on the market) and specialty software that all has to work on Linux and the particular distro (be it canonical or other) will have to provide the same professional support and guarantees that MS does to make it attractive to corporate users.  With MS being dominant in all three areas of corporate IT (server software, office software and workstation OS) it is hard market for Linux to crack especially with MS now being aggressive with adding tablets and phones to their ecosystem. 

I think Linux probably already has a good market chunk for server applications. Particularly web.

But as you say not for office and home users.

[mr moose]

I think Linux probably already has a good market chunk for server applications. Particularly web.

But as you say not for office and home users.

 

They do, Linux (Apache) is the most proliferate of web server software, but corporate servers (data storage, user accounts and domain managment,  network application management, disk image and file serving, etc) MS has the lions share, although this is shrinking as Linux server applications are becoming more common with larger software developers (like oracle) supporting developing for the OS.