[Forbes] Why 'Watch Dogs' Is Bad News For AMD Users -- And Potentially The Entire PC Gaming Ecosystem

[xAcid9]

TressFX runs on the CPU for Nvidia users. So yes it is proprietary software just like PhysX is. Or at least that was what happened when I last looked at Tomb Raider. TressFX looks like sh*t though so it didn't matter all that much.

 

Where you get that source?

[WiiManic]

Where you get that source?

To my Knowledge, and all the googling I found, TressFX runs on any DirectX11 Card, So yes that included nvidia.

 

Kuddle may have been thinking of the very start of Tomb Raider, when nvidia's drivers didn't have it yet, but it was added later.

[xAcid9]

To my Knowledge, and all the googling I found, TressFX runs on any DirectX11 Card, So yes that included nvidia.

 

Kuddle may have been thinking of the very start of Tomb Raider, when nvidia's drivers didn't have it yet, but it was added later.

 

Yup, it was based on DirectCompute hence why i shocked when someone posted it ran on CPU for Nvidia users.

[Jaybird]

this feels like a one sided conversation. I dont think I saw a remark from nvidia pr. so what I gather is that some jounralist from forbes talked to an AMD pr and they got to talking about watch dogs. so all in all I dont see this as a big deal. nvida has developed technology that someone at EA wanted to use. maybe AMD needs to develop their own proprietary software to compete with nvidia instead of coming up with mantel a practically useless piece of coding with directx getting an update. 

[SkilledRebuilds]

mantel a practically useless piece of coding with directx getting an update. 

I agree with some of what you said, not this, I am pretty sure personally that Microsoft wouldn't have put as much "recent" attention into the driver overhead of DX12 as they were originally going to do, with other companies bringing out competitive products (concept, working or not) it will push them to do better.

 

You say Mantle was useless, I say it was revolutionary, only because it lights fires under some asses.

[Jaybird]

I agree with some of what you said, not this, I am pretty sure personally that Microsoft wouldn't have put as much "recent" attention into the driver overhead of DX12 as they were originally going to do, with other companies bringing out competitive products (concept, working or not) it will push them to do better.

 

You say Mantle was useless, I say it was revolutionary, only because it lights fires under some asses.

true but the way it was kept secret and then hyped was like lighting a bonfire with gasoline.

[xAcid9]

this feels like a one sided conversation. I dont think I saw a remark from nvidia pr. so what I gather is that some jounralist from forbes talked to an AMD pr and they got to talking about watch dogs. so all in all I dont see this as a big deal. nvida has developed technology that someone at EA wanted to use. maybe AMD needs to develop their own proprietary software to compete with nvidia instead of coming up with mantel a practically useless piece of coding with directx getting an update. 

 

[Camul]

Even more quality gameplay from quality game....

 

Are you only here to nitpick the game? Sure the driving isn't that great, but it's still a fun game.

[kuddlesworth9419]

Where you get that source?

It was an assumption. If I am wrong then there you go.  

[LAwLz]

I don't understand all this rage.  Game developers tailor their games to play better on either AMD or Intel cards ALL the time (except in the earlier days), and you can tell by the little 'NVIDIA' or 'AMD' mini-add/badge when you load the game.

 

If some of you are so upset over this you should learn some history.  AMD don't exactly have a clean slate.

It happened in the earlier days as well with for example GLIDE.

 

 

maybe AMD needs to develop their own proprietary software to compete with nvidia

They already have. It's called Mantle but for some reason people don't consider it proprietary, even though it ticks every. single. mark that defines something as proprietary.

This forum has far to many AMD fanboys.

[Jaybird]

It happened in the earlier days as well with for example GLIDE.

 

 

They already have. It's called Mantle but for some reason people don't consider it proprietary, even though it ticks every. single. mark that defines something as proprietary.

This forum has far to many AMD fanboys.

 

fan boys of any kinda are a problem.

 

blue/green team for the win!

(sarcasm)

[DaRk0]

I agree with some of what you said, not this, I am pretty sure personally that Microsoft wouldn't have put as much "recent" attention into the driver overhead of DX12 as they were originally going to do, with other companies bringing out competitive products (concept, working or not) it will push them to do better.

 

You say Mantle was useless, I say it was revolutionary, only because it lights fires under some asses.

 

Not sure about this.

[Askew]

This forum has far to many AMD fanboys.

 

Believe it or not AMD fanboys are my least favourite type of fanboy, they seem to be the most prone to apologist behaviour.

[Camul]

They already have. It's called Mantle but for some reason people don't consider it proprietary, even though it ticks every. single. mark that defines something as proprietary.

This forum has far to many AMD fanboys.

AFAIK amd offered mantle to Nvidia, but they didn't want it.

[LAwLz]

AFAIK amd offered mantle to Nvidia, but they didn't want it.

We don't know that, or what the implications of such a deal would be. AMD might have demanded other things in return such as patents/money/cross licensing/etc, or maybe they would have had to make dramatic changes to the architecture and then basically have AMD dictate architectural changes for their GPUs (in order to not break compatibility).

It's easy to say "well they offered a deal" when they deal might have been absolute garbage. The entire argument is based on the assumption that AMD are good guys that wouldn't demand anything back from Nvidia, but we have absolutely no evidence at all that supports that assumption.

 

Until AMD makes all the trademarks and patents regarding Mantle public domain, as well as release the source code under a free license such as GPL, Mantle will be just as proprietary as for example PhysX, no matter what AMD fanboys will say.

 

 

Edit: And don't think of a second that I am trying to defend Nvidia or something like that. They are full of shit as well for the GameWorks "blackbox". At least Nvidia isn't pretending to be nice and open about it.

Nvidia is slipping a roofie into your drink and stares into your eyes while doing so.

AMD is pointing fingers towards Nvidia going "look at him putting a roofie into that drink!" as a distraction, while slipping a roofie into your drink.

[Misanthrope]

Yes mantle isn't open source, but is not like BF4 or Thief ship without a Direct3D option, Nvidia can still optimize on that side of the code. If there was only a Mantle version and Nvidia wasn't allowed to really optimize, yeah I'd be pissed.

 

Do we really need a repeat of the scenario of the processors side where AMD just said "fuck it we're starting fresh, see you in 2016" but for GPUs? What would happen then? Nvidia would say "Ok Maxwell? Yeah you dont need that, just have 100 more cuda cores, 50mhz and the rest will be all rebrands" I mean yeah I know it already happens but the performance difference between Nvidia and AMD isn't as great as Intel vs AMD

[Camul]

We don't know that, or what the implications of such a deal would be. AMD might have demanded other things in return such as patents/money/cross licensing/etc, or maybe they would have had to make dramatic changes to the architecture and then basically have AMD dictate architectural changes for their GPUs (in order to not break compatibility).

It's easy to say "well they offered a deal" when they deal might have been absolute garbage. The entire argument is based on the assumption that AMD are good guys that wouldn't demand anything back from Nvidia, but we have absolutely no evidence at all that supports that assumption.

 

Until AMD makes all the trademarks and patents regarding Mantle public domain, as well as release the source code under a free license such as GPL, Mantle will be just as proprietary as for example PhysX, no matter what AMD fanboys will say.

 

 

Edit: And don't think of a second that I am trying to defend Nvidia or something like that. They are full of shit as well for the GameWorks "blackbox". At least Nvidia isn't pretending to be nice and open about it.

Nvidia is slipping a roofie into your drink and stares into your eyes while doing so.

AMD is pointing fingers towards Nvidia going "look at him putting a roofie into that drink!" as a distraction, while slipping a roofie into your drink.

I said as far as I know, it's not saying it's what actually happened. Also, I'm not an AMD fanboy. I dislike Nvidia, but I don't really have any love for AMD either.

[LAwLz]

Yes mantle isn't open source, but is not like BF4 or Thief ship without a Direct3D option, Nvidia can still optimize on that side of the code. If there was only a Mantle version and Nvidia wasn't allowed to really optimize, yeah I'd be pissed.

 

Do we really need a repeat of the scenario of the processors side where AMD just said "fuck it we're starting fresh, see you in 2016" but for GPUs? What would happen then? Nvidia would say "Ok Maxwell? Yeah you dont need that, just have 100 more cuda cores, 50mhz and the rest will be all rebrands" I mean yeah I know it already happens but the performance difference between Nvidia and AMD isn't as great as Intel vs AMD

AMD can still make improvements to Watch_Dogs. In fact, the latest driver increases performance by ~25%. So it's not like their hands are completely tied. It's harder for them to improve performance than it should be, but not impossible.

 

 

I said as far as I know, it's not saying it's what actually happened. Also, I'm not an AMD fanboy. I dislike Nvidia, but I don't really have any love for AMD either.

Well what you know about it is nothing, so your statement is just an assumption that AMD gave them a fair deal with next to no drawbacks which Nvidia declined out of pride.

I think it's silly to make such a statement which is why I don't think it is a valid argument for why "Mantle is open". The argument only makes sense if you are biased towards AMD.

[pixeldensity]

AMD can still make improvements to Watch_Dogs. In fact, the latest driver increases performance by ~25%. So it's not like their hands are completely tied. It's harder for them to improve performance than it should be, but not impossible.

But is it really fair to make it harder for amd to optimize for WD

[LAwLz]

But is it really fair to make it harder for amd to optimize for WD

Nope

[DaRk0]

AFAIK amd offered mantle to Nvidia, but they didn't want it.

 

There's no reason for Nvidia to accept Mante, when they're working over 4 years with Microsoft developing DX12.

[tharvey]

I don't know about crippling the whole industry, but I don't like the fact that they do handicap AMD's performance in the game.  That is bullshit and shouldn't be allowed

[Switchblade Ninja]

Are you only here to nitpick the game? Sure the driving isn't that great, but it's still a fun game.

You dont happen to work for ubisoft do you? The game is clearly shit "press e to trigger this and that" with shitty gunplay, story, graphics and physics.

[The_Evenger]

that game doesn't even run that good, on anything

it's just not optimized, like, at all.

[Camul]

You dont happen to work for ubisoft do you? The game is clearly shit "press e to trigger this and that" with shitty gunplay, story, graphics and physics.

No, I just enjoy the game. I don't think the graphics are that bad. I'm playing on medium, and they're hardly "next gen" but I still think they're fine. Optimization sucks though. I love the atheistic of the city too. I love the dialogue, I like the gun play, it's pretty much the same as any GTA game. I like the hacking mechanics, I love the game invasion. Also, what were you expecting for the hacking? Do you think it would have been good to have to go through a hacking mini-game every time you want to trigger something in a high-speed chase? Driving physics are bad, but I never expected a lot from that anyway. They actually remind me a lot of SR, so it's not too bad, but I would have preferred something like GTA V. I haven't played a lot of the story yet, so I can't comment on that.